Liberal SJs

[sassafrassquatch]

The type descriptions portray SJs as conservative, traditional and from a USian perspective very Republican. When I was a Christian I held the usual fundy conservative positions. After deconverting I reevaluated everything and now on a one dimensional US political spectrum I'm mostly a lefty.

I’m curious about how SJs go about holding liberal ideals and such.

*shakes tiny fist of rage at vbulletin*

[quietgirl]

My ISFJ boyfriend could give a good crap about politics, but he's certainly not conservative.

[Zergling]

Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch

The type descriptions portray SJs as conservative, traditional and from a USian perspective very Republican. When I was a Christian I held the usual fundy conservative positions. After deconverting I reevaluated everything and now on a one dimensional US political spectrum I

when SJ's are described as "conservative" it is usually more in the lifestyle sense (Likes to keep things the same, takes fewer chances, etc.) rather than politically conservative. i would expect SJ's to be more likely to go along with an extablished political view, though so many people do so already that it is very hard to tell if that actually works in any amount.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Zergling

when SJ's are described as "conservative" it is usually more in the lifestyle sense (Likes to keep things the same, takes fewer chances, etc.) rather than politically conservative. i would expect SJ's to be more likely to go along with an extablished political view, though so many people do so already that it is very hard to tell if that actually works in any amount.

Yes, SJ upholds the status quo -- ESxJ enforces the current climate but adjusts to it as it naturally evolves (they are progressive that way), while ISxJ tends to create an inner map earlier in life and clings to it for security.

We just happen to equate SJs to political conservatism and certain religious faiths and other trappings of the 20th century because that was what the establishment was at the time... but if the establishment would be something else, they would be reflecting that establishment. It is more the attitude of "prevailing norm" that carries through.

I think that SJs also come in another basic flavor, which is reactionary to the established norms... Because SJs focus on the prevailing norm, how they express is usually is to enforce it or purposefully rebel against it. Some other types do look like they rebel, but it's less about rebellion because they're simply following their own path; SJs do have a streak where they just rebel in order to fight the expectations they are feeling hanging over them, SPs and others just tend to ignore the rules as a matter of course.

[sassafrassquatch]

Aww crap. I just noticed my post didn't post all the way.

[htb]

SJs without more than a passing interest in politics, I've found, are affected by prevailing, media-driven culture. Every single one that I know accepts center-left positions with a resigned shrug -- because, you know, it was on the news.

[whatever]

my ISFJ mother just accepted whatever her father told her to think about politics before she married my father. However, she and my father made a deal when they got married- he would have to go to church with her every sunday and she would have to read about politics and find out what she really thought all on her own, no help from anyone else. She spent a good many years confused until she started to develop a strong interest in the politics of education and healtcare (she's an elementary school teacher) and started to develop actual political stances.

My mother now has her own political ideas (thanks to my INTP dad finding this to be a necessity! ) and yes, she is politically liberal- not an extremist, but still a definite leftist!

[PinkPiranha]

My girls Gypsy (ISTJ) and Miss (ISFJ) are both VERY liberal.

[substitute]

My friend Dave the ISTJ is liberal... but it's deceptive. As a student in the 70's, he took on the liberal thing (it was 'deviant' by general terms back then, but actually de rigeur for students, so he was conforming to his immediate environment despite believing himself to be rebelling) and voted Labour (the left wing party at the time in the UK). But as he's grown older, he's continued to vote Labour even though their policies and stances no longer even slightly resemble what they did in the 70's and countless studies have placed them firmly in the right wing. We've discussed this, and even though he intellectually seems to accept that they're no longer the party that represents his views, he still continues to vote for them. In his words "It's just hard to bring myself to change my vote after so many years." Incomprehensible attitude, from my POV.

Also, although he took on the liberal hippie thing in the 70's, it seems to have been largely a surface thing... and he's very unliberal in his attitude towards people with different views to himself. IOW, he sorta doesn't get the real point of liberalism... he's pretty inflexible in categorizing people as either people he respects or people he doesn't, and he's quite open about the fact that he doesn't see the people he puts in the latter group as worthy or deserving of being treated with consideration or kindness. People in that category for him include anyone who is, or appears to be (IHO) a "sell-out". That is, anyone who wears a suit or a tie - even for a wedding!!! Anyone who buys their own property, or people who listen to music he doesn't like.

His "liberalism" seems very immature to me and stuck in a sorta teenage version of things. Very rigid and black and white, and quite naive.

[CzeCze]

Originally Posted by Zergling

when SJ's are described as "conservative" it is usually more in the lifestyle sense (Likes to keep things the same, takes fewer chances, etc.) rather than politically conservative. i would expect SJ's to be more likely to go along with an extablished political view, though so many people do so already that it is very hard to tell if that actually works in any amount.

I totally agree with this.

I think people's politics are influenced in large part by their temperaments and their life experiences.

All things being equal an SJ is more likely to have conservative political or religious views, and moreover, strong such views for some of the temperament reasons Zergling describes.

However, and this is my soap box moment, there is no "all things being equal" when it comes to people's lifes -- we're not talking about an equal playing field or generic upbringings. Political and religious views are determined by temperament and lived experience.

From my personal view, usually people espouse very traditional values and political or religious leanings because they were instilled with it growing up, OR ran towards it and embraced it later in life for salvation or stability or [fill in the blank].

My ISTJ friend, yes, that's ISTJ, the 'trustee' of the MBTI does not have conservative political views. They would be considered very liberal and she received an award from her hometown for her GLBT (gay lesbian bisexual transgender) organizing work. During her acceptance speech she spoke about class issues and how it's difficult for many people to even afford the price of a ticket to that very awards dinner.

It would be unusual with her life circumstances and experiences to embrace a conservative or Republican outlook on life (though of course there are others with similar experiences who are Republican).

But she does have old-fashioned values when it comes to dating and 'social convention' and wrong and right. In that way I do see the structured/conservative part of her nature come through. She's also "conservative" with her money, meaning very thrifty and can stick to a budget.