Liberal SJs

[substitute]

Yeah I also agree with what Zergling said.

Actually I believe one of my biggest inspirations and heroes, William the Conqueror, was ESTJ. He's marked by historians as being a conservative character, and he was indeed much of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. But he could also be quite a maverick with his battle tactics and training methods. And also in his very ambitions - someone of his origins wouldn't ordinarily have dared to dream, let alone achieve, what he did.

[mnestic]

Originally Posted by Zergling

when SJ's are described as "conservative" it is usually more in the lifestyle sense (Likes to keep things the same, takes fewer chances, etc.) rather than politically conservative.

Originally Posted by Jennifer

I think that SJs also come in another basic flavor, which is reactionary to the established norms... Because SJs focus on the prevailing norm, how they express is usually is to enforce it or purposefully rebel against it. Some other types do look like they rebel, but it's less about rebellion because they're simply following their own path; SJs do have a streak where they just rebel in order to fight the expectations they are feeling hanging over them

These both spoke to me.

I'm definitely liberal (yet another way I don't fit my type?) and I'm all about defying expectations. My ESTJ "conservatism" definitely expresses itself in a lack of interest in risk-taking, NOT in an interest in upholding the status-quo.

[quietgirl]

Originally Posted by substitute

My friend Dave the ISTJ is liberal... but it's deceptive. As a student in the 70's, he took on the liberal thing (it was 'deviant' by general terms back then, but actually de rigeur for students, so he was conforming to his immediate environment despite believing himself to be rebelling) and voted Labour (the left wing party at the time in the UK). But as he's grown older, he's continued to vote Labour even though their policies and stances no longer even slightly resemble what they did in the 70's and countless studies have placed them firmly in the right wing. We've discussed this, and even though he intellectually seems to accept that they're no longer the party that represents his views, he still continues to vote for them. In his words "It's just hard to bring myself to change my vote after so many years." Incomprehensible attitude, from my POV.

Also, although he took on the liberal hippie thing in the 70's, it seems to have been largely a surface thing... and he's very unliberal in his attitude towards people with different views to himself. IOW, he sorta doesn't get the real point of liberalism... he's pretty inflexible in categorizing people as either people he respects or people he doesn't, and he's quite open about the fact that he doesn't see the people he puts in the latter group as worthy or deserving of being treated with consideration or kindness. People in that category for him include anyone who is, or appears to be (IHO) a "sell-out". That is, anyone who wears a suit or a tie - even for a wedding!!! Anyone who buys their own property, or people who listen to music he doesn't like.

His "liberalism" seems very immature to me and stuck in a sorta teenage version of things. Very rigid and black and white, and quite naive.

This is similiar to my ISTJ father. My mother tells me that back when he was younger, he was your classic 70's hippy. However, so were the people at his college and all of his close friends. Now he lives in a really conservative town and has more conservative friends. Needless to say, he is now the furthest thing from liberal. My mother also described his liberalism as rather immature and says that underneath it all, he's always been more rigid in his views.

[Recoleta]

Agreed with what Zergling said. I am rather conservative in my daily life, dating, money spending, etc., but politically I am conservative on some issues and liberal on others...like CzeCze said, it really depends on my personal life experiences.

Since I am in education, I am liberal when it comes those issues (and most other social issues), but more fiscally conservative and I am conservative when it comes to abortion and some other issues.

It's really just a mix.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

What is true for a group may not be true for any given individual in that group.

[Jen]

Well your nut sack is pretty even. :P

Maybe you've changed? I believe that your surroundings can change your type. I mean to go from a conservative Christian to a lefty is quite big change wouldn't you say?

All the SJ's I know are pretty much the same with the exception of Ivy who may not really be an SJ.

Now don't go changing that avatar or people will think I'm pervy!

[spirilis]

Hm, briefly reminds me of my friend's ESFJ mom who is very opinionated about political matters, and is certainly liberal in ideals. But she strongly maintains and advocates the image of a "typical family home experience"--her main project 8 years ago was to purchase an old house in the Appalachians and they all moved over there, then she re-made the house virtually from scratch and it looks dazzling... high quality materials everywhere, and absolutely astonishing attention to detail. Her passion for politics is somewhat of a throwback from the years she grew up, the 60's and 70's where she said everyone had an opinion back then (this was a conversation we had the last time I drove out there for my friend's bday). I'm sure her past profession as a schoolteacher (from which she retired) had some to do with her liberal stance.

[booyalab]

Pretty much every die-hard single-party voting member of both the DFL and GOP is an SJ. If you disagree, you're hopelessly naive.

Anyway, that amounts to a lot of liberal SJs.

[crandolph]

My ISFJ husband is liberal. The SJ comes out in his tendency to adhere to what's practical ("let's nominate someone electable" vs my own INFJ "let's nominate someone who's principles are X,Y,Z").

[mnestic]

Originally Posted by crandolph

tendency to adhere to what's practical ("let's nominate someone electable")

I do that too. I think it annoys my non-SJ friends.