I have this weird problem: ISFJ women.

[kelric]

Originally Posted by Athenian200

I'm not trying to apply anything to ISFJ's specifically, I'm saying that that could be what's going on, based on his description and the functional order. I don't know whether it is or isn't. I think there are just as many ISFJ's who would accept being less intelligent than an INTP more gracefully than the person in question did. Like I said, I believed (although I could have misinterpreted) that this person was still immature and competitive.

It *could* be correct, but I still think it's more likely to be a simplification of two-sided misinterpretation, with a dash of sterotypical "she's an ISFJ, so her motives are very likely related to social hierarchy, damn her!" - when it may just be an issue of noncompatible personalities and a lack on both sides to give the other some credit and the benefit of the doubt. Of course, I don't know the people in question, so I could be wrong, but I really don't think it's just an "ISFJ's are jealous and intimidated by my superior intellect" thing - ugh.

Originally Posted by Athenian200

Also, I think that type is related to intelligence to some degree. For instance, I'm an INFJ. That means I'm dumber than all the NT's (which I understand and accept), as smart or slightly smarter than most other NF types, can be smarter or dumber than an SJ depending on their age, skill set, and subject. I am smarter than SP's excluding ISTP's, who are sometimes slighter smarter or dumber.

You're an INFJ. This alone makes you more or less intelligent than exactly nobody. This, I'm not going to budge on . Trying to metric-ize intelligence is difficult at best, and although I'm certain that however you choose to define intelligence there's at least some range among people (which in most cases may or may not be particularly significant), I'm pretty confident that it has no strong relation to type,especially trying to use type as a predictive element upon an unknown person's intelligence. Interests, methods of interaction, what thoughts and activities people choose to focus on - those I could believe are influenced by type. But raw intelligence? I don't think so.

[heart]

Originally Posted by mysavior

Thoughts?

RUN!

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by mysavior

Alright, I don't get along with very many people. I have one of those caustic and abrasive personalities that would make even Mike Tyson blush. Anyway, I'm still an introvert, so my personality isn't always in your face, but if you bother to inquire, you'll certain get a dose of it.

One specific set of people that I don't tend to get along with are (what I believe to be) ISFJs. When I get around them (male or female, doesn't matter) shit gets reaaaally weird. I had always heard on forums that ISFJ's are nice and traditional and responsible, and whatever else. This was excitng to me (that and the fact that Socionics says we are activity partners or whatever), and upon first meeting most ISFJ's it all seems true: nice, polite, traditional (no frills), etc. Things go well for a while (in each of my encounters, that's about 1 hour), and then the shit starts to hit the fan: the ISFJ's are fucking full of it. To be more specific, I begin to find myself in a power struggle with the ISFJ's as they begin to see that I am mentally apt. Its really weird. You think they have a good impression of you, and think you are fine, but based on this bullshit response I get down the road, its like I've been judged as the scrawny, awkward dumbass. Pretty much, I got taken for granted, or seen as just some dude, and so now when I start putting some skills on display, they (specifically the men, here) start getting nervous/worried/etc that this nobody is going to outshine them. This is so weird. What's going on here? Maybe they were expecting a timid pushover that they could string around their finger and do with as they please, but then when I begin to assert myself, they start feeling like idiots, and think, "who the fuck does this guy think he is?" Anyway, the worry begins to materialize in the form of some underhanded and aggressive actions to (as far as I can see) remind me, or make it clear to me who is in charge. Its like they start worrying that I'm going to hold something over them, or look down on them like they are irrelevant ("I'm not going to be some little shit nobody to this clown"). Now, its weird and unexpected and aggressive and all that, but its done with a smile, you know, so I cant call out "bitch" or "pussy," I just pretty much have to deal with it, or ignore it, and go on with life. Usually, I've ended up just fine, but these bids for superiority never seem to end. Everytime I meet up with these people again, its the same bullshit.

Again, what's going on here?

This was negative, but I'm not really trying to bash these people.. they (usually) mean well, and are (enviably) responsible/organized with just about everything. What I'm trying to do is understand just what the fuck is going on here.

Oh, and to my real point: the women.

Alright,

The ISFJ women I meet are usually short and fat (like, obese), or well-dressed with nice hair, traditional makeup, and bodies that you'd see on a fitness magazine. Now, it doesn't matter if the women I see are fat or in great shape, I always feel the same attraction (did you see that one coming?). That is, I can't stop looking at them! I'm completely fucking mesmerized. Now, this attraction never really leads anywhere (the "power" problem I mentioned above is a real deal killer for me), but it also never goes away. So here I am with these women who keep bullshitting, and who are just sickening me with the actions they are taking, and who are also (just to show how weird this is) overweight and fairly average-looking, and all I can think of is how much I want to bone them. Heh. Does anyone have this happen to them? Its really weird.

Alright, so I went out with one of them a while ago, and it was like constant oscillation: initial meet, attraction, date, fight/bullshit, breakup, attraction, makeup, date, fight/bullshit, breakup.. again and again. And it was like (as I said before), no matter how disgusted I was with her, and what she does, I always found myself going back for more. And I'm sitting here wanting more again, and so I decided to ask.. what the hell?

I'm also kinda questioning whether or not I REALLY DO VALUE personality over beauty, because her personality is shit, in my opinion, and it continually drives me away once it surfaces, but I keep going back because of the very strong physical attraction I have to her. Sometimes she's fat, sometimes she's sexy as hell.. sometimes she's pretty, sometimes she looks all over the place and like shit, and as I keep saying, it doesn't matter-- I still want it!

I can't emphasize strongly enough how weird this is for me. I can't fucking explain it!

Before I repeat myself one more time..

Thoughts?

I have had similar problems. There is an attraction, but it doesn't work out. A lot of them are physically unattractive, but I can't stop thinking about having hot monkey sex with them, either....and it actually happened once. The thing is, we probably have different priorities. For them, it's all about appearances(blech), for us, it's all about learning and knowing. I think the warm fuzziness(which often turns out to be fake or short-lived, BTW) is what does it. Around the age of 30, these women start really showing their true colors(if you haven't experienced this yet)-authoritarian, incurious, stupid, hard-core provincial, always ranting and raving about the latest suburban hysteria. Sorry, that's been my overwhelming experience. I guess they compensate for their sleeping around and getting shitfaced excessively when young(they're as bad as ESFPs);-)

[BeBecky]

I'm pretty sure I'm an ISFJ, and I'm pretty sure my husband is an INTP. I'm attracted to him even though I don't always understand him, yet we definitely don't have the whole conflict thing being discussed here.

[halfaninstant]

often time issues are not personality clashes... just misunderstanding caused by different personalities.

and immaturity... one side or the other.. or both =)

[runvardh]

I think it's hilarious to watch an ISFJ deal with the conflict of what she wants vs what she "should" do while the ENTP courting her is slowly reeling her in with a relaxed smile.

[heart]

Originally Posted by halfaninstant

often time issues are not personality clashes... just misunderstanding caused by different personalities.

If personality clashes are not based on misunderstandings or miscommunications then what are they based on?

[Jae Rae]

Originally Posted by heart

If personality clashes are not based on misunderstandings or miscommunications then what are they based on?

Personality clashes can be based on differences in priorities and preferences, differences in ways and timeframes of doing things.

Jae Rae

[Little Linguist]

Originally Posted by mysavior

Alright, I don't get along with very many people. I have one of those caustic and abrasive personalities that would make even Mike Tyson blush. Anyway, I'm still an introvert, so my personality isn't always in your face, but if you bother to inquire, you'll certain get a dose of it.

One specific set of people that I don't tend to get along with are (what I believe to be) ISFJs. When I get around them (male or female, doesn't matter) shit gets reaaaally weird. I had always heard on forums that ISFJ's are nice and traditional and responsible, and whatever else. This was excitng to me (that and the fact that Socionics says we are activity partners or whatever), and upon first meeting most ISFJ's it all seems true: nice, polite, traditional (no frills), etc. Things go well for a while (in each of my encounters, that's about 1 hour), and then the shit starts to hit the fan: the ISFJ's are fucking full of it. To be more specific, I begin to find myself in a power struggle with the ISFJ's as they begin to see that I am mentally apt. Its really weird. You think they have a good impression of you, and think you are fine, but based on this bullshit response I get down the road, its like I've been judged as the scrawny, awkward dumbass. Pretty much, I got taken for granted, or seen as just some dude, and so now when I start putting some skills on display, they (specifically the men, here) start getting nervous/worried/etc that this nobody is going to outshine them. This is so weird. What's going on here? Maybe they were expecting a timid pushover that they could string around their finger and do with as they please, but then when I begin to assert myself, they start feeling like idiots, and think, "who the fuck does this guy think he is?" Anyway, the worry begins to materialize in the form of some underhanded and aggressive actions to (as far as I can see) remind me, or make it clear to me who is in charge. Its like they start worrying that I'm going to hold something over them, or look down on them like they are irrelevant ("I'm not going to be some little shit nobody to this clown"). Now, its weird and unexpected and aggressive and all that, but its done with a smile, you know, so I cant call out "bitch" or "pussy," I just pretty much have to deal with it, or ignore it, and go on with life. Usually, I've ended up just fine, but these bids for superiority never seem to end. Everytime I meet up with these people again, its the same bullshit.

Again, what's going on here?

This was negative, but I'm not really trying to bash these people.. they (usually) mean well, and are (enviably) responsible/organized with just about everything. What I'm trying to do is understand just what the fuck is going on here.

Oh, and to my real point: the women.

Alright,

The ISFJ women I meet are usually short and fat (like, obese), or well-dressed with nice hair, traditional makeup, and bodies that you'd see on a fitness magazine. Now, it doesn't matter if the women I see are fat or in great shape, I always feel the same attraction (did you see that one coming?). That is, I can't stop looking at them! I'm completely fucking mesmerized. Now, this attraction never really leads anywhere (the "power" problem I mentioned above is a real deal killer for me), but it also never goes away. So here I am with these women who keep bullshitting, and who are just sickening me with the actions they are taking, and who are also (just to show how weird this is) overweight and fairly average-looking, and all I can think of is how much I want to bone them. Heh. Does anyone have this happen to them? Its really weird.

Alright, so I went out with one of them a while ago, and it was like constant oscillation: initial meet, attraction, date, fight/bullshit, breakup, attraction, makeup, date, fight/bullshit, breakup.. again and again. And it was like (as I said before), no matter how disgusted I was with her, and what she does, I always found myself going back for more. And I'm sitting here wanting more again, and so I decided to ask.. what the hell?

I'm also kinda questioning whether or not I REALLY DO VALUE personality over beauty, because her personality is shit, in my opinion, and it continually drives me away once it surfaces, but I keep going back because of the very strong physical attraction I have to her. Sometimes she's fat, sometimes she's sexy as hell.. sometimes she's pretty, sometimes she looks all over the place and like shit, and as I keep saying, it doesn't matter-- I still want it!

I can't emphasize strongly enough how weird this is for me. I can't fucking explain it!

Before I repeat myself one more time..

Thoughts?

Forgive me, but you INTPs and ENTPs make me laugh my ass off!!!

[Hmm]

Originally Posted by Athenian200

Well... they're not as smart as you, and they know it (tertiary Ti). They're worried that people will be impressed by your intelligence, and then you'll be ahead of them in the social hierarchy, and thus they'll have to defer to you. They don't want that, so they start showing other people how they're better than you, because they interpret your showing off your intelligence as an attempt to curry favor and get into people's good graces. So they want to stay one step ahead of you, so that they can feel like they're as good as you are even though they're not as intelligent. They think you looking down on them for being less intelligent, because they look down on people who are less intelligent (even though they don't say it).

They don't feel intimidated until you show intelligence, however, because they're probably more clever in the Ti sense than most people they encounter (other SJ's). So their moderate wit becomes their "added security" in maintaining their position even when unusual things start to happen, and they see you as a threat to it. They wouldn't admit to any of this, though, because it would make them look bad. Basically, underneath the kindness, there's an immature, competitive NT who can't stand that someone is smarter than them.

At least, that's what I picture when I try to see this from their perspective.

That was pretty negative, not to mention, untrue.