What do you think of ESTJs?

[Athenian200]

My impression is that they're highly efficient and thorough people, who work very hard towards things, and can be a bit controlling, tending to micro-manage. I've never met one, though.

[substitute]

Originally Posted by JediM05

I get the impression from some forums that people often have the wrong idea of what type of person an ESTJ is. What are y'alls views?

I know two at the moment, one quite well and the other only barely.

The one I don't know very well comes across as very professional, very honest and down-to-earth - I feel at ease with him and as though I can approach him with anything. He doesn't seem particularly blessed in the sense of humour department, but he's certainly not grouchy or anything. Just a bit sorta... 'focused'.

The one I know quite well is almost always cheerful and quite 'powerful' as a person - not in that he has that much actual power, but the power he has sorta comes from within, he has a great deal of willpower and is impossible to intimidate, but I can't imagine him ever trying to intimidate anyone either. I wouldn't bother using my Ne wiles on him to persuade him of anything because I know it'd be a waste of time unless he wanted to do it anyway. In all the time I've known him, he's never caused any fuss or drama and when others have caused it, he's stayed right out of it and remained always calm and dignified. You always know where you stand with him.

Though he doesn't quite 'get' a lot of my humour, he often smiles at the same time as others, but he's actually smiling at how weird he thinks I am, and I often see him chuckle and shake his head and I know he's thinking "that crazy kid!" or something like that, in an affectionate way. Just like I chuckle in an affectionate way at him when I see him get panicky when something unexpected happens. It's kinda funny because a lot of the time I rely on him to sorta 'lead' me, to give me direction, help me to behave in a relatively normal and acceptable way and keep me focused, but when we're in unknown, sorta uncharted areas he's all at sea, and once or twice has quite literally walked along clinging to my arm while I confidently press on.

Unlike some other types I've known quite a few of (such as xNTJ for example), he's come to realise that though my methods are unorthodox and risky, they do seem to work, and he trusts me to just get on with things. He'll say things like "I don't know how you do that, and by rights it shouldn't work, but you pull it off somehow every time so I'm not going to interfere". xNTJ's I know tend to try to just 'grab the wheel' from me as soon as they think I'm "being irrelevant".

There have been times in my life when my restless ways have led me into absolute chaos which, though I enjoy it most of the time, sometimes has gotten on top of me and I've ended up knocking on his door; he lets me in and there's something innately reassuring about him when I sit down and he gives me a coffee and just talks the way he always does, and I feel like y'know, the world could blow up but John will always be John, it has a great calming effect on me and I go away quite recharged and able to continue. He seems to have an effect on me of forcing me to cut all the blagging and ad-hoc bullshitting that so much of my affairs tend to get full of, and get back in touch with what's real and true, what matters and what needs to be done. I've sometimes thought that I'm a bit like a maypole that spins round with ribbons flying out, collecting no end of crap attached to them over time, and when I go and see John he kinda whittles all the crap away and I go away with the ribbons neatly braided and colour coded

All said and done, I like ESTJ's But I wouldn't say any of this stuff to them - they'd raise one eyebrow, roll their eyes and shake their heads and reserve the right to think I'm completely insane.

[arcticangel02]

I'm pretty sure my dad's an ESTJ.

He's a great businessman and very organised - he works from home and he's able to set deadlines for himself and keep everything in order with apparent ease. He has a daily list which means he gets heaps of stuff done every day, and always seems to be working on something or other. He used to be an accountant, and although he doesn't do that exclusively any more, he is very much detail-oriented, and great at dealing with money.

He always makes sure to research any new undertaking thoroughly before jumping in. He always makes sure to have all his questions answered and everything cleared up. I find this wonderful, and I always go to him to see if he can think of things I wouldn't even have considered when I want to start something major.

When explaining things (or having things explained to him), he's very logical. You have to explain it on his terms, otherwise he'll get exasperated, but if you can make that tiny concession, he's a very bright guy. It seems like he always has to use 'props' (i.e. getting the salt and pepper at the dinner table and arranging them to represent the places or things we're talking about)! It makes me laugh.

He does tend to lose patience if things are confusing or unplanned - recently we did some travelling, and he often got frustrated when we didn't have a set plan, or we weren't sure what we were doing in a particular town, or if someone else just wanted to 'wander around'.

But he's a great family man, and we all get on fairly well. (My entire family are SJs, though, except my younger brother, who I can't work out. Likely more of an N.) He's responsible (never goes overboard on a night out, for example) and loyal - he still keeps in contact with friends from 20 years ago who live on the other side of the globe.

The only thing I see in him that doesn't come up often in descriptions of ESTJs is his great sense of humour. He's always teasing us, and his jokes are usually of the straightforward, laugh-out-loud sort. (The teasing jars a little with my sensitive NF soul , but really it just helps me have a backbone!)

I see very, very few of the negative ESTJ traits in him... perhaps a little inflexibility (but his ways work well for him, so who are we to try and change them?), but for the most part he's a very balanced and successful individual. I have huge amount of respect and admiration for my dad. Given, I might be slightly biased, but hey. :P

[Economica]

I know two male and two female ESTJs. All of them are extremely responsible and hardworking 'pillars of the community'. Three of them are of an entrepeneurial bent (organizing subcultural concerts and events), while the fourth is climbing the corporate ladder. I respect their ability to get things done and to think on their feet, and I believe they value my recognition of their achievements as well as the most practical of my stream of suggestions for improvement. Apart from that I generally* don't get along with them too well. For some reason they bring out the devil's advocate in me (other TJs don't do this); also we can mutually frustrate each other because they focus on what is practical here and now to face immediate challenges while I focus on (admittedly highly speculative) contingency planning for the future. When our perspectives don't clash like this, however, we often see eye to eye and can even bond over our shared ruthlessness.

* The exception is one of the men who is highly intelligent and whose F is well-developed. Unfortunately, the reason why his F is well-developed (a childhood of parental guilt trips) also causes him to drown himself in responsibilities, meaning that I hardly ever get to see him.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by ygolo

I have this image of "pillar of the community".

Which could be good or bad depending on the commumity.

Nicely put.

[Natrushka]

I only know one, my dad. We get along well, better now that we're both older, though. I suspect he was an N before joining the military, however.

[CzeCze]

I think a guy I am seeing is an ESTJ or perhaps ESFJ. I'm an ENFP and I think if he is a good representative, ESTJs are fabulous people! Not just specifically for me, but for other people in general.

Even though he has strong opinions and has no problems with confrontation, he is REALLY GOOD with people, puts people at ease, makes connections with 'everyman' quickly and makes friends easily, and is the kind of person who will interject on a stranger's behalf. And he is NOT an asshole, he doesn't try to prove how manly or better than other people he is. He has the attitude and ease of a martial arts black belt i.e how they train you to fight so that you will never have to.

(BTW, I also interject into people's lives on their behalves, but HA HA HA HA, in a different way.)

He has this very real, natural confidence that is a combination of just 1) being a decent thoughtful NICE guy but also 2) someone you respect.

And it's SO HARD to exude both at once WITHOUT trying. If you TRY to exude 'respect me but yeah, like me too b/c I'm nice' it comes off as forced. I know, b/c, uh, that's what I DO. Hahhaah.

Anyhow, I find his confidence and charm to be very refreshing, I really value authenticity and he is just SO REAL. And also a lot of fun as he seems to really live in the moment and can just kick back even though he has that SJ thing of wanting structure, keeping to schedules, and planning for the future.
Whereas I seem to like living it up, but a part of me is always preoccupied thinking about something else (even when I'm laughing it up with friends at the bar, a small part of me is always running another program in the background) and I naturally do NOT keep to schedules.

It's pretty hard to offend either of us though neither of us purposely tries to offend anyone. But it's really nice b/c together we can comfortably be honest and straightforward and act retarded and get each other's humor and laugh a lot.

I think as an intellectual NF or T/F cusp myself, I appreciate that he is thoughtful and tries to get his facts straight but also passionate. Thoughtful + passionate = hot. He actually reads a lot and enjoys learning about the world thsi way. Which is interesting to me as I write a lot and almost avoid reading books.

I think 'ESTJ' is a 'dual' for ENFP, so again, if he really is an ESTJ and a good representative of that type, I want to meet more ESTJs!

[CzeCze]

Originally Posted by Natrushka

I only know one, my dad. We get along well, better now that we're both older, though. I suspect he was an N before joining the military, however.

I have to say, I'm really interested to see how the military changes personality. I wrote this in another forum, but I think the military trains everyone to be _STJ. Even this guy who I said is ESTJ -- I think had he not joined the army, he may very well have tested now as N or even F.

Of course, life events in general really shape your personality, but I can't think of another program and lifestyle like the military to the extent to which it literally molds you down to your values and trained response to stimuli into what they need.

[CzeCze]

"The one I know quite well is almost always cheerful and quite 'powerful' as a person - not in that he has that much actual power, but the power he has sorta comes from within, he has a great deal of willpower and is impossible to intimidate, but I can't imagine him ever trying to intimidate anyone either. I wouldn't bother using my Ne wiles on him to persuade him of anything because I know it'd be a waste of time unless he wanted to do it anyway. In all the time I've known him, he's never caused any fuss or drama and when others have caused it, he's stayed right out of it and remained always calm and dignified. You always know where you stand with him."

OMG, that describes my friend so well! I thought it was his military background which caused this, but I realize I've known A LOT of people in the military (lived in a town with military bases) and this is not necessarily true of everyone in the militar (unfortunately).

This is why when I think of ESTJ, I think a 'really decent guy'. Old-fashioned but not rigid.

[Natrushka]

Originally Posted by CzeCze

I have to say, I'm really interested to see how the military changes personality. I wrote this in another forum, but I think the military trains everyone to be _STJ. Even this guy who I said is ESTJ -- I think had he not joined the army, he may very well have tested now as N or even F.

Of course, life events in general really shape your personality, but I can't think of another program and lifestyle like the military to the extent to which it literally molds you down to your values and trained response to stimuli into what they need.

What I've read is that the military tends to mold as xSTJ, also. I think FineLine found this to be the case. My father tests as a weak E, getting weaker as the years pass and he becomes more 'himself' - in the Military he was forced to be an extrovert (command officer).