Risk, Reward, and God

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum

I don't think we are on the same page when we think of the abstracted ideal that is love. If we were, I would need no explanation. I still haven't been able to explain it. It's a feeling.

Uh, dude, please... no, no cop outs?

I've been spiritual for almost 40 years, in the Christian faith (my entire life narrative revolves around that), and I'm not going that route with you either. If it was that inherent, I'm pretty sure I'd get the gist. But I don't agree with you, both from my spiritual background and from being a parent.

"Feelings" don't mean anything, I've seen too many religious people just believe whatever feels convenient because they don't want to quantify things and test them, that's all.

I think it is usually fruitless to compare god to "real life" analogies though. My conception of God lives outside of social constructs. (I know... I started it :P)

lol

Actually, I disagree with that too. I think God is not relevant unless we have some reflections of him/her/it in the observable and experienced world. If God is not reflected within our system, then he is irrelevant and unknowable.

Isn't it just more that we have to acknowledge that our "examples" could never totally capture something beyond like God? But they can still offer us a facet into who/what he might be?

Sorry, that might have come out bluntly. I think I have a lot of that going around this week. *groan* Anyway, those are just my ideas?

[notjeffgoldblum]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

"Feelings" don't mean anything.

It looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Orangey]

Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum

I like to compare the concept of people condemning themselves to hell to idea of criminals sending themselves to jail. It just doesn't happen. Criminals commit crimes and they may well know that they are acting in contradiction with the wishes of the vast majority of society, but the fact remains that it takes something besides their crime to actually put them in jail. God sends people to hell, not people. (then again I don't consider the concept of heaven to be all that appealing but that's a whole 'nother thread)

Well, like I said, I don't really buy the whole 'free-willingly sending ourselves to hell' bit. I'm just saying that that's how certain believers can hold onto their idea of a benevolent God while still believing that the bad people will go to hell.

One problem that I'd point out, in particular, is that even if we grant that people may freely choose to act such that they may go to either heaven or hell (which is not a safe assumption), the constructs of heaven and hell, and the mechanisms put into place to sort people into either place ARE God's creations. So it's not like there is this extra-Godly law that forces God to ascribe to it...God creates these places, the rules used to sort people into them, and so on. So in an indirect sense he does punish people, because he dictates what is punishable and how said punishment is to be carried out.

@Jennifer...yay, someone thought that was funny (even if mildly) .

[notjeffgoldblum]

Thanks to the black magic of INTPs I momentarily completely forgot what this thread was originally about.

[Orangey]

You wanted us to discuss that quote, which basically said that God loves both the sinners and the saints, and everyone in between. I think that's pretty much what we've been doing.

[notjeffgoldblum]

Originally Posted by Orangey

You wanted us to discuss that quote, which basically said that God loves both the sinners and the saints, and everyone in between. I think that's pretty much what we've been doing.

Ah yes. Yes, yes. Thank you for putting that back into perspective.

So I guess the new question is what is love?

(here's to hoping MacGuffin doesn't see this post first)

[Orangey]

+ "Similarly Perplexed" via YouTube

[notjeffgoldblum]

[BlueWing]

Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum

I was speaking of the judeo-chrIslamic God.

There are many definitions of this God, which do you have in mind?

[notjeffgoldblum]

Originally Posted by BlueWing

There are many definitions of this God, which do you have in mind?

The first quote should suffice to describe the version of the God I had in mind when I made this thread.

The second quote describes my take on an "improved" version of it.