Questions about coincidence

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by Jae Rae

The other night we were watching Juno; her boyfriend says of another girl that she "smells like soup." The very next night we watched a British mini-series in which one of the characters says to a girl that she smells like soup. I'd never before heard anyone described in that way.

Too funny! Even though I must confess, I say people smell like soup frequently. Not that they do. It's just such a silly insult I can't refrain from it.

I also have a heightened awareness of synchronicity and coincidence, which feel meaningful to me, even if they're random.

Agreed! And I don't think it's "DaVinci Code" meaning either. I really do honestly see how things connect up in a legitimate way, with some concrete explanation mixed with the uncanny.

Then again, I ought never to allow my Se to get a hold of my Ni because the two of them create the most marvelously Rube Goldberg theories out of little occurrences. Sometimes it's amusing. Sometimes it puts me into a spiral. Ni goes blind. I have to tap someone with Ne or primary S to clarify for me.

[spirilis]

I read a book on synchronicity last summer (C.G. Jung's Psychology of Religion and Synchronicity by Robert Aziz). Rather heavy reading, at least for me. Anyway, Jung's explanation for synchronicity has something to do with "archetypes," or specifically the idea that two coincidental events are noticed by us primarily because of the fact that we are able to perceive a common pattern between them, an "archetype" as he calls it. I know when most people see the word "archetype" they think of "literary archetypes," ie common roles for characters, but I believe the definition here is meant to be a much larger one encompassing any basic "pattern" our minds can perceive.

The book goes into all kinds of ridiculous detail about how the human race knows many archetypes collected over the years into what he calls the "collective unconscious," and then there's some metaphysical speculation as to the nature of the collective unconscious and so forth.

What does it all mean?

After reading through 200-some-odd pages of deep stuff, it's still anyone's guess.
(addendum: ) Actually now that I recall, the book's point is to consider such "meaningful coincidences" in terms of, well, what "meaning" you find from them. The point is that one's own perception of such coincidences is a highly personalized interpretation and that interpretation tells us a lot about ourselves, our character and what is important to us at that point in time. The more important such patterns are to us, the more emotion we will feel when we notice these coincidences (the "numinous charge" as they call it).

Robert Aziz has another book, "The Syndetic Paradigm" - The Untrodden Path beyond Freud and Jung, which I've purchased but haven't cracked quite yet. I gave the first chapter a read and decided to move on to something else. I think, as the title suggests, he's trying to create a superset theory to Freud and Jung's ideas, something about reality being a "self-organizing system" or whatever.

(warning: my crackpot theory below, please use iodized salt to flavor)
My personal guess? By definition, anyone who's highly "intuitive"--definable as someone who can perceive reality in terms of "patterns" (and this doesn't only mean an N-type preference, it could mean an S-type who has very well developed intuition)--has a natural ability to be highly sensitive to viewing archetypes, or "seeing meaning in coincidences" around them.
I consider the act of perceiving events and reducing them to an "archetype" to be potentially the "essence" of Ni, or an essential description of what it does. A pattern may have sequence to it--you might know that if A happens, B will happen next, followed by C or D, and E after all of that. I believe that one can take a subset of events and consider a number of possible known "patterns" (or "archetypes") that may apply to them, and an Ni-adept type may in fact do just that. As a result, if an Ni-type sees a small subset of events, their mind determines the root archetype at play there, and based on what they know of that archetype's sequence, they may be able to "predict" what will happen next, and this "prediction" is the root source of an Ni-type's so-called "prophetic" ability.

[clueless]

Thanks everyone, for replying.

Originally Posted by spirilis

Actually now that I recall, the book's point is to consider such "meaningful coincidences" in terms of, well, what "meaning" you find from them. The point is that one's own perception of such coincidences is a highly personalized interpretation and that interpretation tells us a lot about ourselves, our character and what is important to us at that point in time. The more important such patterns are to us, the more emotion we will feel when we notice these coincidences (the "numinous charge" as they call it).

So then, I wonder if coincidence could be looked upon as something that may potentially serve as a guideline. If we choose to follow those patterns in terms of discovering the possibilites that ultimately might be helpful in our lives, perhaps we are using a non-linear (intuitive) method of accessing information. I'll take a look at the book you recommended as I'd like to understand more about it. Coincidences happen constantly in my life to the point where I'm almost going crazy. Well, maybe not crazy, but at least confounded by them all.

For example:

Originally Posted by Jae Rae

I also have a heightened awareness of synchronicity and coincidence, which feel meaningful to me, even if they're random.

Jae Rae, your user name is, if you were to change the sound of one of the vowels, exactly that of a guy I knew in college. Your avatar looks something like him too. Naturally, it's pure coincidence, is it not? But what does it mean? If I were to use my own reasoning and "follow a pattern" does that mean I should go back and look him up? I wonder.

And there are other things as well. One more example (one of many): A friend that I met on the internet has the same name as a friend of mine just over the Canadian border. Both of their names mean the same thing. My Canadian "neighbor" if you will, has a brother whose name means the same thing as my other friend's middle name. What to make of it? I can't make heads or tail of all this. I really need to talk to someone I think. Maybe I loco!

[Jae Rae]

Originally Posted by clueless

Thanks everyone, for replying.



So then, I wonder if coincidence could be looked upon as something that may potentially serve as a guideline. If we choose to follow those patterns in terms of discovering the possibilites that ultimately might be helpful in our lives, perhaps we are using a non-linear (intuitive) method of accessing information. I'll take a look at the book you recommended as I'd like to understand more about it. Coincidences happen constantly in my life to the point where I'm almost going crazy. Well, maybe not crazy, but at least confounded by them all.

For example:

Jae Rae, your user name is, if you were to change the sound of one of the vowels, exactly that of a guy I knew in college. Your avatar looks something like him too. Naturally, it's pure coincidence, is it not? But what does it mean? If I were to use my own reasoning and "follow a pattern" does that mean I should go back and look him up? I wonder.

Well, it could. If it hits you as meaningful, then it IS meaningful.

I'll give you an example. My father died on Jan. 20, one day before he would have turned 77. A few years later I met a man whose birthday was Jan. 20. Coincidence, right? Yet, he was a deeply thoughtful NT who taught me much about life, just as my father did. I observe my friend's birthday and the anniversary of my father's death on the same day, and that fact is quite meaningful to me.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by clueless

Will you please write a little more about this?

Chance can be calculated in a discipline called Statistics.

However human beings are poor at judging chance intuitively.

So to know the chance of something happening, we need to work it out in Statistics.

Statistics have been very successful in creating Quantum Mechanics, our most accurate scientific theory.

And because we are bad at judging chance intuitively, we are very liable to make misjudgements and think things are connected when they are not.

I've just seen a movie called Kung Fu Panda, where the Kung Fu Master keeps saying there are no accidents. But the Kung Fu Master did not know Statistics. For Statistics can tell us accurately when something is an accident and when something is not an accident.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Once a statistician who doubled as a probability theoretician told me he could calculate the odds on anything. So I punched him in the face and yelled, "Didn't count on that, did you, number boy?!"

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin

Once a statistician who doubled as a probability theoretician told me he could calculate the odds on anything. So I punched him in the face and said, "Didn't count on that, did you, number boy?"

I've just seen a movie called, "Hancock". Hancock took very direct action, just like Sammy.

And of course nobody likes Statisticians or Probability Theorists, so we would love to see you take one down, Sammy Boy.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Originally Posted by Victor

I've just seen a movie called, "Hancock". Hancock took very direct action, just like Sammy.

And of course nobody likes Statisticians or Probability Theorists, so we would love to see you take one down, Sammy Boy.

I'm just waiting for the right actuary.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin

I'm just waiting for the right actuary.

Punch him for me.

[bluebell]

Originally Posted by Victor

It's just that we notice when things coincide. And we don't notice when things don't coincide. And so we start to see patterns where none exist.

Chance can be understood quite easily in Statistics.

So it is chance that exists rather than coincidence or synchronicity.

Coincidentally, I agree with Victor. The mind remembers the odd occasion when there is coincidence and doesn't remember all the gazillion (a highly technical term) times when there wasn't anything remarkable happening.