Thinking about thinking

[Grayscale]

How aware are you of your own thinking?

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being rather cerebellic, automatic body functions like breathing and heartrate, 10 being the able to sense and manipulate your thinking like you would your hand.





ever since i can remember ive had a strange awareness of my own thought patterns, and like learning to walk, i learned to control it like i would an appendage; to the point where consciousness is more like putty, allowing the user to form it into whatever tool and perspective necessary.

but with control comes power, and with power comes responsibility, this can lead one to distrust themselves and their own thinking, and often times others' (which is due to projection)... because people are in control of themselves and thus selfish. without the ability to act "naturally", there is an illusion that not only is a person that is in control of their mind and body completely responsible for it, but also that they are in control of what occurs to them and even their surrounding environment. it was 4 years ago, when i reached a peak, that i realized it was unhealthy.

it was this inability to know what was real and what was merely a selfish mental creation that drove me to find objectivity, and my degree of mental control that allowed me to use it for good and, finally, learn to let go of it. i dont think it is something i will ever be completely free of, but i can at least reach a point where i can identify most objective framework and isolate where where my choices are being made and why.

[substitute]

Another stunning post, dude

Yep, I relate to all of that. Nothing to add

[Aimahn]

Hmmm...this is a very interesting topic and one that I sort of have been inadvertently tackling for a while now. As for me right now I would still say I'm still in the first process you went through. I guess I'm still trying to cultivate my ability to manipulate my thinking and it is a somewhat frightening experience because your sphere of control is a very hard thing to get a perspective on when you are too concerned with "thinking about thinking".

Like Substitute I am at somewhat of a loss as to what to add on. I don't know whether I should get more in to the theory of meta-cognitive abilities or more the real life benefits and problems that this line of thinking can cause.

[ygolo]

Originally Posted by Grayscale

[...]but i can at least reach a point where i can identify most objective framework and isolate where where my choices are being made and why.

I want to learn to do that.

Overall I rather aware of my own thoughts, and can metacognate, but not to the point where I see where my actual choices are.

To put a number on it, I'll 7 is my level of awareness of my own thoughts.

Bohm called it proprioception of thoughts.

[Kyrielle]

Somewhere between 6 and 8 I would say on the whole. In moments of extreme stress and self-analysis, 9.

I understand and relate to all that you've said.

[Grayscale]

if you dont have something to add to the topic itself, then perhaps you could write about your own personal experiences with this (as you grew up and developed, etc)

Originally Posted by ygolo

Bohm called it proprioception of thoughts.

interesting...

for me it was something i realized was happening when i was 5 or so (i was in preschool at the time), where a thought would occur, then i would introspect on the thought, deduct the essential workings of it (and eventually reasons, motives, etc) then introspect on the introspection. this would loop (or overlap?) over and over until patterns occurred and then it would expand exponentially. when i began to observe other people it was easy to recognize the vector and layer of their thinking.

at a certain point, i realized a root motivation was to find the boundaries and then make an educated decision as to where to place myself within them, which is a behavior i have seen in myself in other ways ("spreading out then settling"). after developing layers and layers, someone can freely roam between them (or not?) comfortably. i dont have enough information to say for sure, but i think this is power/tool development behavior.

[Grayscale]

this is also why i admire idealism, from a "thinking strategy" standpoint it is an effective approach, even if not always entirely factual, due to subconcious target fixation

Originally Posted by Aimahn

I don't know whether I should get more in to the theory of meta-cognitive abilities or more the real life benefits and problems that this line of thinking can cause.

either? ...both?

i think it is a very interesting topic, thinking is something everyone does, so everyone can relate to it at least in some way

[Aimahn]

I agree. Basically for a while now a large majority of what I have been interested has a root in that. MBTI, Education and curriculum differentiation, a little neurology, cognitive psychology, "left/right brain " thinking, blooms taxonomy, piaget's formal operations...etc. I'll think about it and try and come up with a more relevant and decent post later.

On the theory side of things I think there is a massive amount that can be discussed, I really need to stop being lazy though and direct and converge my thoughts into something more concise.

I do have one question though. would you say that you have a more clear and multi-purpose ordered mental state?

that is to say have you reached a point where your confident in fully utilizing your meta-cognitive abilities for a wide variety of things and are you very aware of all the processes?

[evan]

I always find myself getting into these ridiculous loops of thinking about thinking. Especially with a psychology framework, you can break down any desire/thought whatever into these larger motivational schemes. I've gotten to the point where I can, in an extremely detailed way, break down every action I take into a hierarchy of motivations reacting with the environment.

I know how I think, I think about my thinking, I come up with plans for change, etc. But then I just watch all of my plans go out the window in response to some stimulus. It happens over and over again -- I see the exact way out, I can write out a list of tasks, and then I watch myself not do it, and think about why I'm not implementing my plans, and then think about how I have now defined myself as someone who doesn't implement tasks, which is really just a coping mechanism for the fear of success, because with success comes pressure to maintain success. The whole thing is a giant coping mechanism for getting out of the stress of the moment and getting into the pleasure I find in ordering my thoughts. Why do I need that coping mechanism? Well, it traces back to my relationship with my mother, my school environment, my abilities, my interaction with my brother, etc.

(I could go on forever).

The conclusion is, you can think about your thinking all you want, and it's good to an extent, but it turns into an escape, a drug. Thinking about thinking means you're not thinking about the external world. You pay to think about thinking, in the currency of time in reality.

Blah, I'm in a really weird mood this week.

[Aimahn]

Originally Posted by dissonance

The conclusion is, you can think about your thinking all you want, and it's good to an extent, but it turns into an escape, a drug. Thinking about thinking means you're not thinking about the external world. You pay to think about thinking, in the currency of time in reality.

Originally Posted by Grayscale

interesting...

for me it was something i realized was happening when i was 5 or so (i was in preschool at the time), where a thought would occur, then i would introspect on the thought, deduct the essential workings of it (and eventually reasons, motives, etc) then introspect on the introspection. this would loop (or overlap?) over and over until patterns occurred and then it would expand exponentially. when i began to observe other people it was easy to recognize the vector and layer of their thinking.

at a certain point, i realized a root motivation was to find the boundaries and then make an educated decision as to where to place myself within them, which is a behavior i have seen in myself in other ways ("spreading out then settling"). after developing layers and layers, someone can freely roam between them (or not?) comfortably. i dont have enough information to say for sure, but i think this is power/tool development behavior.

hmm... interesting response when I read yours and Grayscales post it made me sort of think of some of the overarching ideas in your Induction vs Deduction thread. It seems to me the general consensus is that at first you're not really aware of your thought process until you see them repeated enough or analyze them enough to where you can order or systematize them in some way.

I guess another issue is how removed you can get from the environment when you focus to heavily on your systematized thought processes and not put enough trust in your more "inductive" thought processes or those that are more raw and externally oriented.