MBTI Type and I.Q.

[Uberfuhrer]

Remember that IQ is a measure of intelligence. The MBTI S/N dichotomy measures practicality over creativity, which are two forms of intelligence. It's been said over and over again that IQ doesn't measure creativity.

The scientific community when it comes to psychometrics is biased. I haven't taken an IQ test (with a clinician in the room) in quite some time. But when a clinician is in the room, I would imagine that an IQ score is determined beyond multiple choice and problem solving questions.

When determining an IQ, do they also factor interests relative to age level into the equation? As in would a child with more intellectual or esoteric interests more likely have a higher IQ? If not, then why else would a clinician be overseeing the test-taking process?

[celesul]

My friend recently took a test with his gifted program, and said almost everyone in it was N. He is a strong N. His remarks didn't seem to indicate that any other trait had a strong correlation with being in the gifted program.

At the same time, IQ is pretty worthless. Of the people I know, one of the ones with the highest IQ can't support himself. P/J probably has the highest correlation with keeping a job.

[lastrailway]

Since N/S has to do with the way you take input from the world and T/F with the way you process the information, then I would guess that the IQ would relate with a combination of the two functions. Maybe STs can score higher, due to the various memory/spacial/visual questions
But if I should relate only one function, then I would say Ts might score higher in those tests.

[Uberfuhrer]

Originally Posted by celesul

P/J probably has the highest correlation with keeping a job.

I'd also imagine that the likelihood of keeping a job may even correlate stronger to SJ types, since the nature of S is less psychologically changeable and more oriented toward getting things done.

On the other hand, J has a correlation with a preference for routine and habits, coupled with N, with its preference for zoning out and "being in a world of its own," can also have drastic undesirable consequences in the work environment -- namely having their heads in the clouds (or minds in the gutter). I'd say that INxJ could display a higher dependency upon habit than SJs. (Believe me, this has gotten me in trouble with jobs I'd held.)

[Uberfuhrer]

Does High Openness on the FFM (N on MBTI) have any correlation to sociopathic behavior?

After all, sociopaths are said to have high IQs.

[Mempy]

Originally Posted by heart

I am not sure. There were some people on INFP Global who seemed to have an easier time with math and seemed to have college majors or work in math type fields. It did not seem to be the majority but it was there.

Yes, there are definitely members at INFPg who excell at math, but I myself have these sentiments:

Originally Posted by Sahara

Math =

I might point out that there are INTPs I know who claim to be awful at math, so perhaps there are math simpletons and math geniuses among every type.

[ygolo]

Originally Posted by celesul

My friend recently took a test with his gifted program, and said almost everyone in it was N. He is a strong N. His remarks didn't seem to indicate that any other trait had a strong correlation with being in the gifted program.

At the same time, IQ is pretty worthless. Of the people I know, one of the ones with the highest IQ can't support himself. P/J probably has the highest correlation with keeping a job.

I was in a gifted program as a kid. I'm not sure what the IQ cut-off was, but I would guess a similar trend back then.

I sometimes wonder if the definition of typen or IQ, is changed on an ad-hoc basis, to make the claims about them continue to be true.

I suspect IQ suffers greately form ad hoc hypothesis, in the form of modification of IQ questions to "update for the times"(when it is simply a means, perhaps unwittingly, to continue getting the corellations that the IQ community wants to calim).

[Uberfuhrer]

Originally Posted by Mempy

Yes, there are definitely members at INFPg who excell at math, but I myself have these sentiments:



I might point out that there are INTPs I know who claim to be awful at math, so perhaps there are math simpletons and math geniuses among every type.

I don't think math is an Intuitive pursuit at all. Math isn't really abstract -- at least not in the Intuitive sense. Contrarily, it's detail-oriented factual logic and highly systematic. Math is problem solving concerned with finding a definite answer -- very ISTP- or ISTJ-ish if you ask me.

The INTP and INTJ would be more comfortable with flawed logic, because N is open to fanciful rather than systematic thinking. Hence, contrary to popular belief, the INTP and INTJ are not nitpicking types.

Let's review that the N isn't about intelligence, it's about creative thinking. Math is quite the opposite way of thinking.

[ptgatsby]

Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer

When determining an IQ, do they also factor interests relative to age level into the equation? As in would a child with more intellectual or esoteric interests more likely have a higher IQ? If not, then why else would a clinician be overseeing the test-taking process?

No, except the distribution can change with children... normally there are seperate tests because children can't cope with the more advanced tests at the practical level. As such, most tests are age-limited and validated, often from 18-50 or so, though the more recent ones/validated ones like KAIT (something like 10-80) and WAIS (which has different tests validated for their own age group - so data integrity is only assumed within each test) are pretty open.

A clinician oversees IQ tests for reliability and because of the nature of the tests. Same reason MBTI isn't taken and just scored, but is done through a clinician of sorts.

Does High Openness on the FFM (N on MBTI) have any correlation to sociopathic behavior?

Nothing in particular that would be sociopathic, if you mean either a lack of emotion or associating the wrong emotion to events. They tend to be associated with everything except openness (the lack of empathy/agreeableness/T-ness being the core one here).

So, high IQ and N don't correlate to the issues directly, but rather are a sub-factor to how the other trait is handled. That is, you don't associate low-end sociopaths, of which there are plenty (I think it's either 1% or 3% of the population... but faily substantial), with openness while the more dramatic ones are high IQ and adaptable.

Originally Posted by lastrailway

Since N/S has to do with the way you take input from the world and T/F with the way you process the information, then I would guess that the IQ would relate with a combination of the two functions. Maybe STs can score higher, due to the various memory/spacial/visual questions
But if I should relate only one function, then I would say Ts might score higher in those tests.

In general, T has no significant correlation to IQ... N has a very significant correlation.

It is important to note that it is only one sub-trait that is at all significant in this discussion - "openness to ideas". N includes it indirectly, but has a very different distribution of N/S, making the pool smaller, thus seemingly higher, while the FFM trait makes it easier to measure that one factor in general, showing that the other factors are not significant at all.

As I've said before, I think IQ should be ripped from N and Openness and put into it's own section - I think it is too broad to be captured as only one sub-trait. Also, these can be tested for rather than self-selected, which is significantly different than the other factors (right now).

[Uberfuhrer]

Originally Posted by ptgatsby

Nothing in particular that would be sociopathic, if you mean either a lack of emotion or associating the wrong emotion to events. They tend to be associated with everything except openness (the lack of empathy/agreeableness/T-ness being the core one here).

Actually, I was thinking more in terms of radical behavior; rooting for the underdog and so forth. In a way, criminals tend to be dissatisfied with things as they are and so are willing to make changes. And so I figured, in that way, there is some sort of correlation between that and Openness.