NF and SP Friendships - Page 2

soleil · 10-12-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneWithSoul

That's a coincidence, I guess..because my best friend is an ESFP and I've asked other INFPs, and NFs too, if they have any friends in the SP category, and I don't usually get positive results, so..how nice

I wasn't trying to categorize all ESFP's or SP's or anybody. I know everyone is an individual with different perspectives/experiences. I just wanted to put that info in there, thought it'll help.

Rachelinpa · 10-12-2008, 02:05 AM

I can relate somewhat. The only reason I would skirt an invite like she is doing is if I feel the expectations of the other person are too high and I freak out due to the pressure. I would just ask her straight up if she wants to go or not and tell her what you told us. I agree with you that sometimes we need to make sacrifices for our friends and do things for them that we do not always enjoy. At the same time, I think it would have been different if she had simply told you that she did not want to go in the first place. I would never want someone to come to an event with me because they felt guilty or like they owed me.

Athenian200 · 10-12-2008, 02:06 AM

That's very strange, actually. I don't really think like you do. I actually don't mind being informed that someone wants me to be at a certain place at a certain time in advance, but I really hate the idea of being expected to plan out in detail exactly how I'm going to do it, and what I'm going to need to do in order to do it, that far ahead of time (although I might think about what I'm likely to do intermittently so I'll be ready to go when it's time). That would make me feel trapped on a very narrow path, and the intensity of the expectation would likely make me so nervous that I'd blow it off just so I wouldn't have to think about it.

What's interesting is, I did something much like what you describe to an xNxP friend a while back... that is, I got freaked out when I realized all of a sudden they expected me to know a lot of exact things about how I was going to get there more than a week in advance, and it caused me to just decide not to go, even though I had wanted to when they'd asked before. I think I tend to prefer to have planned what I'm going to do and when, but asking me to commit to a plan about how would freak me out. I tend not to feel committed to plans with friends as I do with things like school or goals I've set for myself, and I don't really hold friends to tentative plans to meet me at a place, either. I just sort of expect them to understand if something else comes up that I want to do (yes, like watching a television program even), rather than demanding a commitment.

I'm an INJ (AFAIK)... and I know another INJ who complained about an ISJ they knew expecting them to have all the details and processes in time worked out ahead of time, rather than just a plan of the end result they expected in terms of location in space and time. I think it might be a bit of an Si/Ne vs. Ni/Se thing. The longer I watch types, the more evidence I see of that division being valid, although hard to discern immediately.

The most surprising thing in your story is that an ESFP wants to watch television... I always thought sitting at home watching television was more a Ni/Si thing than an SP thing??

Lizzy1813 · 10-12-2008, 02:44 AM

Hmmm. I've had more problems with SJs being inflexible than SPs. Have you talked to your friend about this issue? Don't think I'm trying to tell you to do it, 'cause I have a ISTJ friend who I just don't feel comfortable telling when I go along and do things I'd prefer not to with her. Nothing against her, but I just don't feel I can.

Ironic, 'cause my number one problem solver is communication.

Jeffster · 10-12-2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athenian200

The most surprising thing in your story is that an ESFP wants to watch television... I always thought sitting at home watching television was more a Ni/Si thing than an SP thing??

The main "SP thing" is that whatever we're into, we do the hell out of it until we're tired of it. I can remember nights I stayed up til 3am watching television, flipping around to all kinds of stuff with no particular intent to watch any specific show. Many, many times the more logical side of my brain would say "GO TO BED" but that "function lust" that Karl Buhler talked about would say "NO WAY DUDE, KEEP FLIPPING, THERE'S GOTTA BE SOMETHING GOOD ON." I'm pretty sure there's several episodes of The Simpsons where you can see Homer demonstrate this same behavior. We have powerful impulses and they are kinda like being in a trance sorta, where the "action" can be something that's not very active at all.

I really keep meaning to start a thread called "Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament", but then I think, hey, that bug crawling on the floor is pretty frickin cool looking, I'm gonna watch where it goes.

soleil · 10-12-2008, 03:10 AM

Oh, I don't care about planning things ahead of time at all. I rather not. I like being spontanteous. I have to with her because of her schedule. She also goes to sleep around 10PM. She always mentions wanting to be back by a certain time to watch her shows. They mean a great deal to her. Btw, I never asked this girl to ever go with me to any place I wanted to go. It was this one time. Plus she can be flaky unless it's for a guy or a date. Trust me I will never ask again!

Athenian200 · 10-12-2008, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffster

The main "SP thing" is that whatever we're into, we do the hell out of it until we're tired of it. I can remember nights I stayed up til 3am watching television, flipping around to all kinds of stuff with no particular intent to watch any specific show. Many, many times the more logical side of my brain would say "GO TO BED" but that "function lust" that Karl Buhler talked about would say "NO WAY DUDE, KEEP FLIPPING, THERE'S GOTTA BE SOMETHING GOOD ON." I'm pretty sure there's several episodes of The Simpsons where you can see Homer demonstrate this same behavior. We have powerful impulses and they are kinda like being in a trance sorta, where the "action" can be something that's not very active at all.

I really keep meaning to start a thread called "Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament", but then I think, hey, that bug crawling on the floor is pretty frickin cool looking, I'm gonna watch where it goes.

Wow.

Let's see. I spend a lot of time pacing back and forth when I'm daydreaming. I often listen to a song I like over and over again several times in a row liking the effect it has on my mood, trying to get a feel for all the emotional tones in it. I often rabidly refresh the "New Posts" section of what ever message board I'm on to see if anything new has been posted. I often get really into a particular thing, like configuring my computer, playing video games, researching a particular system or topic to death, watching television, chatting on AIM... for a long time, and fixate on it for a while (like maybe the majority of my free time for several months) until I get bored and move on to something else, maybe coming back to one of them after a while, but tending to focus intently on a few of them at a time, tending to drop whichever ones I'm not as interested in at the moment.

Surprisingly, my mind seems to wander back to things I have to get done often enough that I always get them done ahead of schedule.

It would sound like the biggest difference between SPs and NJs (if that's what I and my friend are), then, is that NJs can focus for longer, on fewer things, in a more penetrating way, and are more nervous, expectant, and future-oriented compared to SPs. Maybe you're not so strange after all... huh.

soleil · 10-12-2008, 03:21 AM

Lizzy, I rather not. I am not a pushy person and prefer not to bring up plans again. If she would just tell me "no" that would be perfectly fine with me. It's funny because I'm the most flexible person, if you can't or don't feel like doing something I really don't care. People usually make plans with me, and I didn't mention this, but a few years ago she said she'd meet me at some lounge and she never left the house because it was raining and didn't want to mess up her hair. I was stuck out there on my birthday soaked and alone. She would bend over backwards for a guy though. The reason I am bothered is because I don't think she is considering my feelings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzy1813

Hmmm. I've had more problems with SJs being inflexible than SPs. Have you talked to your friend about this issue? Don't think I'm trying to tell you to do it, 'cause I have a ISTJ friend who I just don't feel comfortable telling when I go along and do things I'd prefer not to with her. Nothing against her, but I just don't feel I can.

Ironic, 'cause my number one problem solver is communication.

Jeffster · 10-12-2008, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athenian200

Maybe you're not so strange after all... huh.

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

Athenian200 · 10-12-2008, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffster

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you'd take it as a compliment.

Okay, I take it back. No hard feelings?

10-12-2008, 02:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
Rachelinpa Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Type: ENFP Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 410	I can relate somewhat. The only reason I would skirt an invite like she is doing is if I feel the expectations of the other person are too high and I freak out due to the pressure. I would just ask her straight up if she wants to go or not and tell her what you told us. I agree with you that sometimes we need to make sacrifices for our friends and do things for them that we do not always enjoy. At the same time, I think it would have been different if she had simply told you that she did not want to go in the first place. I would never want someone to come to an event with me because they felt guilty or like they owed me. __________________ "When I get sad, I stop being sad, and be AWESOME instead." ~How I Met Your Mother

10-12-2008, 02:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
Athenian200 True Neutral Join Date: Jul 2007 Type: InfJ Location: a place of settlement, activity, or residence Posts: 4,020	That's very strange, actually. I don't really think like you do. I actually don't mind being informed that someone wants me to be at a certain place at a certain time in advance, but I really hate the idea of being expected to plan out in detail exactly how I'm going to do it, and what I'm going to need to do in order to do it, that far ahead of time (although I might think about what I'm likely to do intermittently so I'll be ready to go when it's time). That would make me feel trapped on a very narrow path, and the intensity of the expectation would likely make me so nervous that I'd blow it off just so I wouldn't have to think about it. What's interesting is, I did something much like what you describe to an xNxP friend a while back... that is, I got freaked out when I realized all of a sudden they expected me to know a lot of exact things about how I was going to get there more than a week in advance, and it caused me to just decide not to go, even though I had wanted to when they'd asked before. I think I tend to prefer to have planned what I'm going to do and when, but asking me to commit to a plan about how would freak me out. I tend not to feel committed to plans with friends as I do with things like school or goals I've set for myself, and I don't really hold friends to tentative plans to meet me at a place, either. I just sort of expect them to understand if something else comes up that I want to do (yes, like watching a television program even), rather than demanding a commitment. I'm an INJ (AFAIK)... and I know another INJ who complained about an ISJ they knew expecting them to have all the details and processes in time worked out ahead of time, rather than just a plan of the end result they expected in terms of location in space and time. I think it might be a bit of an Si/Ne vs. Ni/Se thing. The longer I watch types, the more evidence I see of that division being valid, although hard to discern immediately. The most surprising thing in your story is that an ESFP wants to watch television... I always thought sitting at home watching television was more a Ni/Si thing than an SP thing?? __________________ "The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." --Hegel's philosophy of Mind

10-12-2008, 03:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
soleil Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Type: ENFP Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 254	Oh, I don't care about planning things ahead of time at all. I rather not. I like being spontanteous. I have to with her because of her schedule. She also goes to sleep around 10PM. She always mentions wanting to be back by a certain time to watch her shows. They mean a great deal to her. Btw, I never asked this girl to ever go with me to any place I wanted to go. It was this one time. Plus she can be flaky unless it's for a guy or a date. Trust me I will never ask again! __________________ "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

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10-12-2008, 02:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
Lizzy1813 Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Type: ENFP Location: Wouldn't you like to know? :P Posts: 37	Hmmm. I've had more problems with SJs being inflexible than SPs. Have you talked to your friend about this issue? Don't think I'm trying to tell you to do it, 'cause I have a ISTJ friend who I just don't feel comfortable telling when I go along and do things I'd prefer not to with her. Nothing against her, but I just don't feel I can. Ironic, 'cause my number one problem solver is communication.