The big ol' bowl of Enneagram

[dissonance]

Originally Posted by Mempy

If you like to seem very put-together and desirable, and if you're prone to flattery and such, you're more likely a two with a three wing. If you invest a lot in your self-image and care a lot about how you come across to others, I'd go with a three wing. Twos with a one wing seem overall more concerned with their principles and their values than twos with a three wing.

well i'm very very concerned with my values, and i won't hesitate to stick to them even if i think some people will view me negatively. but then again, sticking to my values is one of the traits i want people to see when they think of me, which is very 3ish.

but i think if i was in a position where i would either lose people's respect or stand by my principles, i'd probably stick with principals. it seems like both wings are at play normally though.


the problem is reducing my behaviors down -- i can reduce my type 3 behaviors to 1 behaviors and vice versa. i can't tell which one is active at a lower level.

edit: lower level = more basic level

[Mempy]

If you haven't already, I'd read the descriptions of types one and three, and see if one resonates more than the other. Ones seem more concerned with whether they're evil and defective, whereas threes are much more concerned with their image, status, and the amount of praise they receive.

It's true that one can be equally influenced by both wings. But I'd also ask myself, which type's coping strategies do I use the most, besides my own type's? For instance, a two with a three wing, to keep functioning happily, will be much more likely to turn to achievements and successes to bolster their self-esteem. They may eagerly master a craft, such a painting, in order to feel desireable. Twos with a one wing, on the other hand, in addition to their normal two coping stategies, may seek to atone for sins, or perhaps... I don't know, take up a pet cause or something.

[dissonance]

Originally Posted by Mempy

If you haven't already, I'd read the descriptions of types one and three, and see if one resonates more than the other. Ones seem more concerned with whether they're evil and defective, whereas threes are much more concerned with their image, status, and the amount of praise they receive.

It's true that one can be equally influenced by both wings. But I'd also ask myself, which type's coping strategies do I use the most, besides my own type's? For instance, a two with a three wing, to keep functioning happily, will be much more likely to turn to achievements and successes to bolster their self-esteem. They may eagerly master a craft, such a painting, in order to feel desireable. Twos with a one wing, on the other hand, in addition to their normal two coping stategies, may seek to atone for sins, or perhaps... I don't know, take up a pet cause or something.

i probably relate more to type 1, i guess.

but i'm obsessed with my public image. i spend so much time thinking about social standing/how people think of me.

but i guess i don't focus on people thinking of me as successful as much as people thinking of me as "good" or even "perfect". and i rarely bring up my past "successes" or anything.

hmmm. 2w1 i guess?

still, it seems i'm more image-conscious than most people i know (except 3s).

[Magic Poriferan]

I didn't know which pages to start with, but this subject has given me a basis.


Misidentifying Ones and Twos

This is not a common mistype, but does occur when a wing is mistaken for the dominant type. In other words, 1w2s can sometimes be confused with 2w1s, but confusion is far less likely with 1w9s (owing to their reserved and relatively unemotional demeanor) and 2w3s (owing to their outgoing, effusive demeanor). Gender can influence this mistyping as well. Women who are 1w2s tend to see themselves as 2w1s, and men who are 2w1s may see themselves as 1w2s.

Both types are serious, and conscience-driven, both like to feel that they are of service, and both can be very altruistic; however, their styles and motivations differ significantly. Ones try to transcend the personal in their dealings, appealing to principles and the evident "rightness" of their positions or suggestions. Twos are highly personal and see their service in personal terms. Ones defend their autonomy–they do not want people to interfere with them. Twos seek close connection and even merging. Ones are restrained in the expression of their positive feelings although they let people know when they are dissatisfied or irritated. Twos may have difficulty with hostile or angry feelings, but they are fairly unrestrained in expressing their positive feelings.

Misidentifying Twos and Threes

Here again, confusion about wing versus dominant type is likely to be the problem. A Two with a One-wing is unlikely to be mistyped as a Three, and a Three with a Four-wing is unlikely to be mistaken for a Two. With the 2w3 and the 3w2, however, personal charm and the desire to be liked and to please others can make these types more difficult to distinguish. Confusion sometimes arises, for instance, because the word "seductive" has often been applied to type Two. But clearly, all types can be seductive in their own way, and Threes can be very seductive indeed. Therefore, it is important to distinguish how these two types "seduce" attention from others. Basically, Twos attempt to get others to like them by doing good things for them–by focusing on the other person. ("How are you feeling this afternoon? You look sad.") Twos give the other person lots of appreciative attention in the hopes of being valued as a friend or intimate by the other. Twos are primarily motivated by the desire to please the other as a way of creating closeness or intimacy–to enhance relationship.

Threes get others to like them by developing the excellence of their own "package." Threes seldom lavish attention on the other; rather, they are trying to be so outstanding and irresistible that the other will want to focus attention on them. And while Threes enjoy the attention, and want relationships, they actually fear intimacy, becoming more uneasy as the relationship becomes closer.

Twos and Threes are different in several other key areas. While Twos can be ambitious, they feel uncomfortable going after their goals directly, feeling that to do so would be too selfish. Threes are extremely goal-driven, and feel they are not living up to their potential if they are not the best at what they do. Twos are openly sentimental and emote easily. Threes tend to be more composed, and to have difficulty accessing their feelings. Twos keep trying to do nice things for others until they lose their patience and blow up when they go to Eight. Threes keep driving themselves to excel until they burn themselves out and become more detached and passive when they go to Nine.

Misidentifying Ones and Threes

Average Ones and average Threes are sometimes mistaken because both types are efficient and highly organized. If an isolated behavior is the only thing being considered (chairing a business meeting or planning a vacation, for instance), their organizational abilities are similar–hence the confusion between them. Both are highly task-oriented and tend to put their feelings on the back burner to get things done. Also, both share a desire to improve themselves and to meet high standards, although the basis of their standards and their key motivations are quite different in nature.

Average Ones are idealists, striving for perfection and order in every area of their lives, especially their emotional lives, in an effort to control both themselves and their environment so that errors and failures of all sorts will not be introduced. Inner-motivated by strong consciences, they are organized and efficient so as not to waste time and other resources or allow themselves to be in a position for their consciences to rebuke them for being imperfect, for not trying hard enough, or for being guilty of some form of selfishness.

Average Threes, by contrast, are efficient pragmatists, not idealists. Threes are driven more by their goals than by standards–they care more about getting the job done than about the particulars of how it gets done. Ones tend to be attached to particular methods or procedures ("This is the best way to do this.") Threes are more adaptable, and will change tactics quickly if they feel they are not getting the desired result. Average Threes are primarily interested in success, prestige, and advancing their careers, and the efficiency we see in them is a way of attaining those goals.

While both types tend to put their feelings aside for the sake of efficiency, average Threes are more able to mask whatever is bothering them. On the surface, they rarely appear emotionally disturbed for long by anything (although they may become momentarily discouraged or even depressed by setbacks), nor are they generally ever distracted by their feelings. They are able to invest most of their energy into achieving their goals and in staying focused on them single-mindedly. Ones are far less able to conceal their irritations and disappointments. Others are almost immediately aware of their agitation.

Both types can be cool and impersonal, although they are usually polite and well mannered. With average Ones, we get the impression of deeper feelings being held in check or sublimated elsewhere, say into organizing and maintaining their office space, or giving time to a local ecological organization. Even though Ones do not ordinarily allow their passions to be expressed, their emotions remain potentially available should the self-control Ones typically exercise be lifted. (Their most prevalent negative emotions are righteous anger, indignation, irritation, and guilt.) In average Threes, however, the impression of aloofness and of emotional coolness comes more from a detachment from their feelings rather than a suppression of them. At the same time, average Threes tend to present whatever emotion seems appropriate at the time. If seriousness is called for, they tend to project seriousness. If levity is required, they will "do levity," smiling and being chatty, even if inside they are feeling frightened, overwhelmed, or even sad. For better or worse, Threes are more skilled at projecting charm and "personality" than Ones. However, we can discern the underlying detachment from deeper feelings when Threes are "performing" by the abruptness and ease with which they can adjust their affect from situation to situation and from person to person. (In contrast to Ones, their most prevalent negative emotions are hostility, arrogance, and underlying feelings of shame and humiliation.)

In addition, Ones are trying to be perfect to fend off their own superegos, while Threes are trying to excel to overcome feelings of family shame. In effect, Ones say, "Listen to me–I know the right way to do things," whereas Threes say, "Be like me–I have got it together." Ones offer themselves as examples of those who are striving for perfection, particularly moral perfection, they see themselves as those who can meet the highest standards; Threes offer themselves as exemplars of individual perfection, particularly personal desirability, and as those who can accomplish and be the best.

These two types are similar because both types are "thinking" types–the One corresponds to Jung's extroverted thinking type (PT, 381), who attempts to be objective and impersonal, while the Three's thinking is goal-oriented and pragmatic, similar in orientation to the extroverted thinking of the average One, although technically, there is no direct Jungian correlation. Both types have in mind some sort of goal that they want to achieve. The difference is that Ones attempt to discover which objective means will best lead to the desired ideal, whereas Threes are pragmatists who work backward to find the most efficient means to achieve their goal. The differences between these types can be seen by comparing Al Gore (a One) with Bill Clinton (a Three) or between Emma Thompson (a One) and Jane Pauley (a Three).


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Maybe you can figure something out by coordinating these.

[dissonance]

yeah i'll say i'm 2w1 sx/sp.

the whole impulse control thing about 1s really fits me; also "Ones offer themselves as examples of those who are striving for perfection, particularly moral perfection, they see themselves as those who can meet the highest standards"

thanks!

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by dissonance

yeah i'll say i'm 2w1 sx/sp.

the whole impulse control thing about 1s really fits me; also "Ones offer themselves as examples of those who are striving for perfection, particularly moral perfection, they see themselves as those who can meet the highest standards"

thanks!

No problem. I aim to help.

You have the same instincts as me, and just a flip of my Enneagram type.

[dissonance]

Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan

No problem. I aim to help.

You have the same instincts as me, and just a flip of my Enneagram type.

so you're a 1w2 sx/sp?

which jungian functions do you think account for your 2-ish behaviors? because it seems to me that neither Ti nor Ne would be that interested in helping other people all the time. not that i'm doubting you, i'm just curious what your perspective is.

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by dissonance

so you're a 1w2 sx/sp?

which jungian functions do you think account for your 2-ish behaviors? because it seems to me that neither Ti nor Ne would be that interested in helping other people all the time. not that i'm doubting you, i'm just curious what your perspective is.

I'm not sure. I think an action as general and simple as wanting to help someone can't be so stapled to type. Jesus and Gandhi are both Ones, my friend.

For the record, though, I'm very different on these forums than I am in my usual life. I'm much more like the typical One.
But there are various reasons that I can behave in a more extraverted way online, and that change alone probably makes me seem like a Two.

[dissonance]

Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan

I'm not sure. I think an action as general and simple as wanting to help someone can't be so stapled to type. Jesus and Gandhi are both Ones, my friend.

i'd say wanting to help someone can definitely be reduced to cognitive functions.

Fe could do it if there was a social reason
Te could do it if it was efficient
Fi could ask Ne to brainstorm for someone else
Ti probably wouldn't care

i mean, you can't just take the fact that someone helps others and directly deduce which functions they're using. but that doesn't mean they're not using functions.

do you disagree?

[Magic Poriferan]

It makes me feel better when I help people.
And I honestly believe that it is a good thing.
Does this make me not an INTP?