The downside of ISFP

[Quinlan]

All taken from this ISFP profile: ISFP - Introverted Feeling with Sensing (http://www.murraystate.edu/secsv/fye/ISfP.htm)

Unfortunately, in their desire not to influence, they often forgo expressing themselves and their wishes in favor of blending in with others.

It is important for them to find practical ways to express their ideals; otherwise they will keep dreaming of the impossible and accomplish very little. If they find no actions to express their ideals, they can become too sensitive and vulnerable, with dwindling confidence in life and in themselves.

The problem for some ISFPs is that they may feel such a contrast between their inner ideals and their actual accomplishments that they burden themselves with a sense of inadequacy. This can be true even when they are being as effective as others. They take for granted anything they do well and are the most modest of all the types, tending to underrate and understate themselves.

This nonimposing nature and seeming lack of direction is so much a part of ISFPs that they can easily be either overlooked or overpowered by others. In a sense, they are the most invisible of the sixteen types.

This type, often creative, artsy, and skilled in a variety of practical disciplines where people and nature are served, tends to be shy about offering his or her services--depriving the world of their contributions as a result. All too often, more aggressive, demanding and less capable types fill the void.

Both female and male ISFPs often sell themselves short. As a result, most any compliment an ISFP received can be dismissed as "not really meant" or "just an accident."


Have any of you other ISFPs experienced these sort of things? or have you recognised them in ISFPs if you're another type?

[animenagai]

i think so. one of my best friends is an ISFP and i would say he's very dreamy for a supposedly realistic S. he's very INFP-like in his fantasies (though they all relate to real life applications), but he'll always end that talk by saying stuff like 'if only' or just a sigh. he also fantasizes about who he loves and love itself, but since he's been single for some time now after breaking up with a long time GF, he always says that he's 'dead inside'.

[Hirsch63]

Yes, I have experienced all of this..if I understand things that I am told by those who know me this all rings true. How about you?

[Quinlan]

Yes, I have experienced all of this..if I understand things that I am told by those who know me this all rings true. How about you?

Oh yeah, at my worst all of those things probably apply, luckily those feelings are usually short lived, however since leaving university they are becoming more common.

[heart]

All taken from this ISFP profile: ISFP - Introverted Feeling with Sensing (http://www.murraystate.edu/secsv/fye/ISfP.htm)


Have any of you other ISFPs experienced these sort of things? or have you recognised them in ISFPs if you're another type?

Yes, I've seen all of them in ISFP friend.

[wolfy]

Yes I've seen this in myself.

This from Lenore Thompson wiki (http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:fmugxXwZ0yYJ:greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Cocooning-vs.-Conforming_Exegesis+cocooning+vs+conforming&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1). I've recognised in myself also.

Going too far in the introverted direction
Fi: being so concerned with maintaining the purity of your soul--e.g. your unconditional benevolence for every living thing--that you fail to do for yourself. Your own negotiating position becomes weak because you have nothing to offer but appeal to mercy. You and everyone around you is in desperate need, not because of "the system" but because you let yourself get into that position. Your social position is at the bottom, and people avoid you because they smell "loser". When weakness becomes a point of pride, not something to heal, then your values are no longer in sync with life.

The wiki is down so I linked to googles cache.

A lot of that stuff seems similar to enneagram 9 descriptions. I've found the advice for 9's useful also.

[wolfy]

It is important for them to find practical ways to express their ideals; otherwise they will keep dreaming of the impossible and accomplish very little.

This is the key. The same as 9's. To become active, move forward.

[Jeffster]

Ever since I was introduced to those "cognitive processes", I have felt like the downside (and maybe the upside too) is the constant battle between "Fi" and "Se." It seems like, of all the functions, these can be the most at odds with each other, and since we have them as 1 and 2, it makes sense we might be the most conflicted and misunderstood people.

It explains things like why many people have said to me "you don't sound like yourself today." And I'm like "after not sounding like myself for long enough, isn't what I sound like myself?" :D

[Quinlan]

Going too far in the introverted direction
Fi: being so concerned with maintaining the purity of your soul--e.g. your unconditional benevolence for every living thing--that you fail to do for yourself. Your own negotiating position becomes weak because you have nothing to offer but appeal to mercy. You and everyone around you is in desperate need, not because of "the system" but because you let yourself get into that position. Your social position is at the bottom, and people avoid you because they smell "loser". When weakness becomes a point of pride, not something to heal, then your values are no longer in sync with life.

This hits a spot I often don't like to think about but probably rings true. My standards for myself are ridiculously higher than those I accept from other people.

This is the key. The same as 9's. To become active, move forward.

Which is why my being in a rut and having little time for myself outside of menial work is bringing these feelings out I think.

Ever since I was introduced to those "cognitive processes", I have felt like the downside (and maybe the upside too) is the constant battle between "Fi" and "Se." It seems like, of all the functions, these can be the most at odds with each other, and since we have them as 1 and 2, it makes sense we might be the most conflicted and misunderstood people.

I've recognised these conflicts and contradictions within myself for a while now, mbti helps explain it a bit.

[wolfy]

Ever since I was introduced to those "cognitive processes", I have felt like the downside (and maybe the upside too) is the constant battle between "Fi" and "Se." It seems like, of all the functions, these can be the most at odds with each other, and since we have them as 1 and 2, it makes sense we might be the most conflicted and misunderstood people.

It explains things like why many people have said to me "you don't sound like yourself today." And I'm like "after not sounding like myself for long enough, isn't what I sound like myself?" :D

Can you explain a little more how they can be at odds please. :nerd:

[Jeffster]

From here (http://www.mdani.demon.co.uk/wword/types.htm)


Introverted feeling strives for an inner intensity that is unrelated to any external object. It devalues objective reality and is rarely displayed openly. When it does appear on the surface, it generally seems negative or indifferent. The focus of such feeling is upon inner processes and latent, primordial images. At its extreme, it may develop into mystical ecstasy.

The introverted feeling type is brooding and inaccessible, although may also hide behind a childish mask. Such a person aims to be inconspicuous, makes little attempt to impress and generally fails to respond to the feelings of others. The outer, surface appearance is often neutral, cold and dismissive. Inwardly, however, feelings are deep, passionately intense, and may accompany secret religious or poetic tendencies. The effect of all this on other people can be stifling and oppressive.

vs.

Extraverted sensation strives for intensity of experience derived from concrete objects and physical activities. Consciousness is therefore directed outward to those objects and activities that may be expected to arouse the strongest sensations.

The extraverted sensation type is a realist who seeks to experience as many concrete sensations as possible - preferably, but not necessarily, ones that are pleasurable. These experiences are seen as ends in themselves and are rarely utilized for any other purpose.If normal, such persons are sensualists or aesthetes who are attracted by the physical characteristics of objects and people. They dress, eat and entertain well, and can be very good company. Not at all reflective nor introspective, they have no ideals except sensory enjoyment. They generally mistrust inner psychological processes and prefer to account for such things in terms of external events (e.g., they may blame their moods on the weather). If extreme, they are often crudely sensual and may exploit situations or others in order to increase their own personal pleasure.

I've highlighted the parts that seem especially contradictory to me. But I sum it up as basically "I must do what is right" vs. "If it feels good, do it." It's like constantly shooting at a target, where sometimes a forcefield stops the shot, and sometimes it gets through.

[wolfy]

I see what you mean.

My thinking is that introverted feeling acts as a governor on extraverted sensation, preventing you from going too far with it. Maybe even preventing you from getting the most out of yourself.
You run into problems when you go too far in the introverted direction. Which is the more natural thing to do as our dominant function is introverted.

ISFP Personal Growth (http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFP_per.html)
I agree with this page that the key to unlocking the potential of an ISFP is in developing extraverted sensation.

What do you guys think?

[Quinlan]

Reading those descriptions it's not surprising that we can have deep bonds to the external world (nature).

What do you guys think?

This is what I need now, never seem to have enough time for it though;

Simply the act of "creating" will be a fulfilling source of renewal and refreshment to the ISFP. An ISFP should allow himself or herself some artistic outlet, because it will add enrichment and positive energy to their life.

[sarah]

Have any of you other ISFPs experienced these sort of things? or have you recognised them in ISFPs if you're another type?

My answers are in red ('cause red's my favorite color)...

Unfortunately, in their desire not to influence, they often forgo expressing themselves and their wishes in favor of blending in with others. Sometimes, yeah, but usually if I'm in a situation where I don't care all that much about making an impact in. I really have this desire to get noticed even if I don't do or say much at all.

It is important for them to find practical ways to express their ideals; otherwise they will keep dreaming of the impossible and accomplish very little. If they find no actions to express their ideals, they can become too sensitive and vulnerable, with dwindling confidence in life and in themselves.
*sigh* Yes.. I wish it weren't so true!

The problem for some ISFPs is that they may feel such a contrast between their inner ideals and their actual accomplishments that they burden themselves with a sense of inadequacy. This can be true even when they are being as effective as others. They take for granted anything they do well and are the most modest of all the types, tending to underrate and understate themselves.
SO true. I'm constantly comparing my accomplishments with others', and devaluing my own talents if someone else's accomplishments get more attention from others. I wish I could just Make Myself Stop Doing This. I also take myself for granted way too much. If I find something easy to do, I think everybody in the world must equally find it just as easy.

This nonimposing nature and seeming lack of direction is so much a part of ISFPs that they can easily be either overlooked or overpowered by others. In a sense, they are the most invisible of the sixteen types. I don't think I'm invisible, but I've had a problem for as long as I can remember with other people ripping off my ideas and getting attention and credit for them because they're better at promoting my ideas than I am. I hate that!

This type, often creative, artsy, and skilled in a variety of practical disciplines where people and nature are served, tends to be shy about offering his or her services--depriving the world of their contributions as a result. All too often, more aggressive, demanding and less capable types fill the void.

Yeah, oddly enough, despite being known as the "artsy" person in most social situations, I don't jump right in and say, "Ooo, people, look what I'm gonna do for you!!!" I tend to wait until I'm asked for help, which means sometimes someone else will immediately offer up lame designs and ideas and everybody goes along with that, while I sit there wishing I were "asked" for my contribution. I even have publically supported other people's lame artistic ideas because I didn't want to hurt their feelings by saying I could do better than that. :(


Both female and male ISFPs often sell themselves short. As a result, most any compliment an ISFP received can be dismissed as "not really meant" or "just an accident." [/QUOTE] *sigh* I'm really training myself to just simply say "thank you, that's very kind of you to tell me" when I get a compliment, because I hate it when I give someone a genuine compliment and they blow it off, or belittle my taste by laughing at whatever I've just said I admired about them.


Sarah
ISFP

[wolfy]

Reading those descriptions it's not surprising that we can have deep bonds to the external world (nature).



This is what I need now, never seem to have enough time for it though;


Try this book Quinlan. The war of art (http://search.aucklandcitylibraries.com/?q=the%20war%20of%20art).

[sarah]

Ever since I was introduced to those "cognitive processes", I have felt like the downside (and maybe the upside too) is the constant battle between "Fi" and "Se." It seems like, of all the functions, these can be the most at odds with each other, and since we have them as 1 and 2, it makes sense we might be the most conflicted and misunderstood people.


I see what you mean -- on the one hand we've got this drive to experience the world without pre-judging in order to experience the most out of life, and yet we can't seem to do anything without filtering it through our set of values. So sometimes I feel the need to check out of the world temporarily in order to sort out and prioritize my values FIRST before jumping into a new experience. (That's one reason I wondered for so long about whether I was an SP or not -- many descriptions seem to cater to the dominant Se types.)

Sarah
ISFP

[Quinlan]

If I find something easy to do, I think everybody in the world must equally find it just as easy.

This is something I have often thought but don't see others express very often, its a real pain in the bum when it comes to trying to "sell" myself in job interviews.

I agree and relate to all of your points, love your honesty.

Try this book Quinlan. The war of art.

Cheers Wolfy, will do.

[sarah]

I see what you mean.

My thinking is that introverted feeling acts as a governor on extraverted sensation, preventing you from going too far with it. Maybe even preventing you from getting the most out of yourself.
You run into problems when you go too far in the introverted direction. Which is the more natural thing to do as our dominant function is introverted.

ISFP Personal Growth (http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFP_per.html)
I agree with this page that the key to unlocking the potential of an ISFP is in developing extraverted sensation.

What do you guys think?

Yeah. I think the personalitypage people are right on. When I was a kid, I spent far too much time thinking about what I cared about and not enough time actually doing many of the things I said I cared about.

I'd also like to throw in a bit of Ni in the mix too, because I think it helps me actually create more opportunities for action if I have a sense of what I'd like to be doing in the near future -- as opposed to just choosing from whatever mediocre options might be available today.

Sarah
ISFP

[Jeffster]

(That's one reason I wondered for so long about whether I was an SP or not -- many descriptions seem to cater to the dominant Se types.)


I think that's because, as you said over here in the greatest topic ever (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type/9239-analyze-jeffster-2.html), "Auxilliary Se is pretty visible in ISFPs because it's our preferred function for expressing ourselves in the world. We like to have an immediate impact on others just as much as the extraverts do.." So, the observable Se traits tend to be the ones focused on to differentiate SPs from other temperaments, so if we aren't showing much of those at any given time, people can confuse us for other types, like INFPs, because we have that same depth of feeling and we don't happen to be all INYOFACE at that particular time we're being observed.

At least that's my take on it, because, you know, I've become like a frickin expert in the last 4 months or so. ;)

[wolfy]

Yeah. I think the personalitypage people are right on. When I was a kid, I spent far too much time thinking about what I cared about and not enough time actually doing many of the things I said I cared about.

I'd also like to throw in a bit of Ni in the mix too, because I think it helps me actually create more opportunities for action if I have a sense of what I'd like to be doing in the near future -- as opposed to just choosing from whatever mediocre options might be available today.

Sarah
ISFP

Yeah I can see how I rely on Ni also. Good point.

[sarah]

This is something I have often thought but don't see others express very often, its a real pain in the bum when it comes to trying to "sell" myself in job interviews.


Ha! Tell me about it! I had to force myself to learn how to speak up for my talents so I could do well in job interviews. Giving myself compliments tends to make me squirm inside. I sooooo prefer it coming from other people, and even then I tend to wonder if they really mean what they're saying -- part of me is terrified that maybe they only complimented me in order to be nice.

So here's a related question for you all:

Since it's often necessary in this world to project confidence in order to get what you want, how do you go about raising your own self-confidence level? Any favorite habits/words/phrases come to mind?

Sarah
ISFP

[sarah]

I think that's because, as you said over here in the greatest topic ever (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type/9239-analyze-jeffster-2.html), "Auxilliary Se is pretty visible in ISFPs because it's our preferred function for expressing ourselves in the world. We like to have an immediate impact on others just as much as the extraverts do.." So, the observable Se traits tend to be the ones focused on to differentiate SPs from other temperaments, so if we aren't showing much of those at any given time, people can confuse us for other types, like INFPs, because we have that same depth of feeling and we don't happen to be all INYOFACE at that particular time we're being observed.


Yep! Expressing Fi looks like an expression of the Idealist temperament to all those Myers Briggs and Keirsey fans who haven't figured out that half of the NFs don't even prefer Fi anyway, and wouldn't be good at it if required to use it instead of the Fe they prefer. :rolli:

Sarah
ISFP

[Hirsch63]

Oh yeah, at my worst all of those things probably apply, luckily those feelings are usually short lived, however since leaving university they are becoming more common.

Perhaps it is that need for purpose...not neccesarily "structure" but working for something beyond self focus that leads us to sense these negative aspects of our type preferences. I wonder too if our proximity to the other preferences (for example, I am just this side of IStj or ISfj) can intensify feelings in myself (in a negative situation) that you may not percieve as intensely, even though we share preferences generally.

Being at university may have given you a fulfilling group of daily goals that kept you purposeful for others i.e. I've got to get this done and well for my prof, team, etc? Now it's just you? And the world seems to be a bit of a frustration for me as an ISfp. It seems like that is pretty typical for us generally.

If I understand the posts that I have read correctly, what you are experiencing is perfectly in line with our preferences, and we have been there too with you (and may go there again)...so, you're normal! And I assume it is early days yet for you (in your 20's?) so with the help of this data and this forum you will be able to sidestep some pitfalls that might otherwise reinforce these negative perceptions. And that is just plain good.

[Hirsch63]

Yes, I've seen all of them in ISFP friend.

Also fellow ISFPs, I cannot state strongly enough how much of a help our Heart has been in guiding me along the path to MBTI understanding. Perhaps it is her ISFP friendship that gives her particular insight...Hearts kindness and patience have allowed me to find enrichment in a number of areas I may not have discovered otherwise. She is certainly one of the primary reasons I return to this forum...so blame her. :D

[Neuro]

let me just first say I love ISFPs. Definitely one of the types I admire the most.
My younger brother is an ISFP and I aways get the sense that he doesnt think enough of himself or his abilities. Its hard to get him to take a compliment seriously. He is great at many things and his sense of humour pwns mine and my INTP brothers but he is always saying that he is dumb and doesnt have a lot to offer. I wish you guys had just a bit more ego to understand how cool you are. In this cutthroat world we need people like you. You make others feel comfortable and accepted. In short ISFPs rock.

[Jeffster]

let me just first say I love ISFPs. Definitely one of the types I admire the most.
My younger brother is an ISFP and I aways get the sense that he doesnt think enough of himself or his abilities. Its hard to get him to take a compliment seriously. He is great at many things and his sense of humour pwns mine and my INTP brothers but he is always saying that he is dumb and doesnt have a lot to offer. I wish you guys had just a bit more ego to understand how cool you are. In this cutthroat world we need people like you. You make others feel comfortable and accepted. In short ISFPs rock.

You're so right. I have not been trumpeting my own awesomeness nearly enough lately. :D

[wolfy]

So here's a related question for you all:

Since it's often necessary in this world to project confidence in order to get what you want, how do you go about raising your own self-confidence level? Any favorite habits/words/phrases come to mind?

Sarah
ISFP

I often use visualization. Practice and visualization.

[sarah]

I often use visualization. Practice and visualization.


Yeah, those help me too, especially visualizing myself doing something I want to do succesfully, so I have that mental picture cemented in my mind. I also have given "meaning" to certain objects at work and at home that I use as symbolic reminders that I don't have to live up to my worst fears, and that I've successfully done what I've wanted to do before. For some reason, I'm rarely encouraged by my past successes -- I have a tendency to tell myself that failures point to flaws in my character but that successes must be constantly proven again and again in order for them to count. (I'm guessing this is what Beebe means by the "bad parent" function, and for ISFPs that would be introverted Sensing.)

Sarah
ISFP

[wolfy]

I have a tendency to tell myself that failures point to flaws in my character but that successes must be constantly proven again and again in order for them to count.

Sarah
ISFP
I've been thinking about this and your previous question.
I've found thinking about it this way helps:

I learn. If you invest your ego that way nobody can take that away not even you. Even if you screw up you learn. So think I am a learner.

Keep fluid. Do things because you like to. Objective standards in performance have there place. But always think I do this because I like to. Nobody can say what you do and don't like. Only you can.

I am responsible. Responsibility looks forward blame looks back. So taking responsibility means to me keeping my eye on the objective and being fluid in approach. The balls in my end of the court so to speak.

In MBTI jargon.
Invest in values you control. Fi. Subjective values.
Be fluid in your approach to the world. Se.

Hope that makes sense.

[Jeffster]

Fi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om4s71i0J5Q)

Se (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTRW7sGgiUE)

[wolfy]

Fi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om4s71i0J5Q)

Se (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTRW7sGgiUE)

Now that's a conflict I can relate too!

[sarah]

I've been thinking about this and your previous question.
I've found thinking about it this way helps:

I learn. If you invest your ego that way nobody can take that away not even you. Even if you screw up you learn. So think I am a learner.

Keep fluid. Do things because you like to. Objective standards in performance have there place. But always think I do this because I like to. Nobody can say what you do and don't like. Only you can.

I am responsible. Responsibility looks forward blame looks back. So taking responsibility means to me keeping my eye on the objective and being fluid in approach. The balls in my end of the court so to speak.

In MBTI jargon.
Invest in values you control. Fi. Subjective values.
Be fluid in your approach to the world. Se.

Hope that makes sense.


It certainly does! Thanks for sharing.. Whenever I feel tempted to compare myself with others (which is constantly), it helps to tell myself that there really are no impossible, set-in-stone standards that have to be met in order for ME to feel happy about my own work -- unless I choose to sabotage my own happiness by making up those impossible standards.

Sarah
ISFP

[Lexlike]

Reading the downisdes of ISFP, i recognized some of my downsides... afterwards i ve read more information about and I also seemed to have many things in common with the ISFP type even though i consider myself still a NT.
I must add that I m acutally a strong Introvert and Perciever but my intuition and thinking judgment is really balanced, so no wonder. So are many ISFPs are also Ennegram 4 type... what do you think?

[Jeffster]

So are many ISFPs are also Ennegram 4 type... what do you think?

I don't know, but so far I haven't seen anything that makes me "Ennegram" isn't just bunk.

[sarah]

Reading the downisdes of ISFP, i recognized some of my downsides... afterwards i ve read more information about and I also seemed to have many things in common with the ISFP type even though i consider myself still a NT.
I must add that I m acutally a strong Introvert and Perciever but my intuition and thinking judgment is really balanced, so no wonder. So are many ISFPs are also Ennegram 4 type... what do you think?


This is timely.. I was just reading about enneagram types yesterday, and came to the conclusion that type 4 fits most of my lifelong issues -- coveting other people for what I think they have and I lack, or trying to spice up my life by creating high-impact emotional states instead of just living with my real feelings and trying to be considerate of others' as well. I have no doubt this is the reason why a couple of my love relationships when I was in my 20s failed, and that this is what one guy meant when he said that I was self-absorbed (the other was too "nice" at the time to say what was wrong, but I figured it out years later). I missed out on taking advantage of opportunities I could have enjoyed because I kept feeling I was lacking something necessary in order to be able to take advantage of them, or feeling I was wasn't predestined to have those experiences and enjoy them. Whever I did get what I wanted, I was haunted with the fear that maybe I just got lucky and that I didn't deserve that success.

At any rate, awareness is good, and it's helped me realize how happiness is a choice, and that I can choose to either nurture it or sabotage it.

One quote that's stuck with me for a while now and which really helps to center me is: "It's a sign of maturity when you begin to fall out of love with your own drama."

Sarah
ISFP