Varied Identities

[Colors]

We all take on different roles and aspects of our personalities in different situations... some of us to a greater degree than others. There might be work-you, family-you, guy-friends-you, girl-friends-you?

How many different people are you?

Do you surprise yourself with how differently you can act (flirty, grumpy, silly, argumentative)?

On one hand, I feel it's sometimes constraining that a subset of people expect to see certain parts of you ... to the point where they fail to see what you're really capable of. On the other hand, putting on a persona can also be liberating- exaggerating and projecting the traits you really want to take on. Where does pretending become real?

Thoughts?

[Thursday]

bravo
i think, and albeit i am
which is the problem
i think too much and am too many people

it is extremely tiring and taxes my efficiency and moral
"it" probably being someone who holds his tongue until the razor wit cuts his hand
so yeah
i don't reveal anything, and the reaction is a person who shifts himself to fit the most "happy" outcome

[Victor]

Where does pretending become real?


The only sin you can commit in Oz is to be pretentious. And I love pretending. Fortunately my confessor tells me the best way to beat temptation is to give in to it.

But pretending is like dancing. It's simple - you just move your feet - you just move your body to the music.

Or in meditation, you just move your feet to the inner music - you move your whole body to your inner music.

Or if you are in love, you move your feet with the movements of your lover - or you move your whole body in tune with your lover.

So you might say, at first you pretend to be the music - or you pretend to be your inner self - or if you are very lucky, you pretend to be your lover.

You become alive to the music and the music becomes alive for you.

You move together until you can barely tell the difference between you and the music, the inner and love.

Until the difference disappears, and you become the music. Or you become your inner life. Or you become one with your lover.

It is at this precise moment - at this moment of oneness - that the pretending becomes real.

[Night]

Until the difference disappears, and you become the music. Or you become your inner life. Or you become one with your lover.



You describe the trance very well, Victor.

Moving without thought, to a harmony set into play by another.

Such is the good life, no?

Maybe the secret is the connection itself, rather than the medium adopted to achieve it. A way to bridge the inconsistencies that would otherwise divide us.

Tolkien spoke of such a dance in his epic. "The Music of the Ainur". From their notes, became creation. This symphony brought about the beginning of his world.

And, from Tolkien's "Music", we realize much in the way of contemporary creation. From his books, an entire universe.


The medium itself is interchangeable; the message timeless.

[Victor]

You describe the trance very well, Victor.

Moving without thought, to a harmony set into play by another.

Such is the good life, no?

Maybe the secret is the connection itself, rather than the medium adopted to achieve it. A way to bridge the inconsistencies that would otherwise divide us.

Tolkien spoke of such a dance in his epic. "The Music of the Ainur". From their notes, became creation. This symphony brought about the beginning of his world.

And, from Tolkien's "Music", we realize much in the way of contemporary creation. From his books, an entire genre.


The medium itself is interchangeable; the message timeless.

Yes, this is brilliant, Night.

[Night]

Yes, this is brilliant, Night.

Thank you, Victor. You are a very kind audience.

Brilliance stems from a single point; a beginning.
Your point is the beginning.

[Victor]

Thank you, Victor. You are a very kind audience.

Brilliance stems from a single point; a beginning.
Your point is the beginning.

And a beginning poet always wants to become one with their poem - the beginner wants to live their poem - especially if it is a love poem.

I find it very hard to think of anything nicer than a beginner.

So let us begin.

[Dwigie]

Haha! I love the "no you're great...no you're great conversation" going on right now ;).
sometimes I think I "never am" I feel like who I am is changeable to my will of letting myself be changed (which is..most of the time) and is never consistent, I could be turned into anything anytime it is hard for me to dissociate myself from people or my environment. "Chameleon"...pretty much what I act like. I look to others for guidances, directions..."rules", everything I own is borrowed or stolen basically.Well not everything, the only thing I haven't borrowed is the "substance" of that "play dough".

[Night]

Haha! I love the "no you're great...no you're great conversation" going on right now ;).


You hit it on the head, Dwigie.

That's the secret, really. Identity is mimicry; flattery by incorporation of desirable traits into oneself.

Where do my traits come from?
You, of course.

[nolla]

My identity changes from person to person and I cant clearly say where the limit goes. As far as I can tell, my mind does this pretty automatically. There are different people, and I am not ready to open myself to most of them. Actually that's a clear line: "Open / Not Open" But there are different areas in both of these. For my family and friends I am open, but for acquaintances I might be either, depending on how much I click with the person.

[Hmm]

I wonder, are you pretending to be something that is not real or are you just experiencing different moods?

[nolla]

I wonder, are you pretending to be something that is not real or are you just experiencing different moods?

Me?

It isn't moods I can tell you that. I just don't feel like I can be myself if there are lots of new people around, and with some people the feeling doesn't go away even when I get to know them better. For some of these people, there can be a sudden change so that I can feel to be connected to them in way I wasn't before. But this I think comes from growing up. It is either me who has changed or it is them. It happens very rarely though. Usually if I don't connect with someone, I never will. But maybe I don't give them the change to prove me wrong. I don't know...

[Dwigie]

Me?

It isn't moods I can tell you that. I just don't feel like I can be myself if there are lots of new people around, and with some people the feeling doesn't go away even when I get to know them better. For some of these people, there can be a sudden change so that I can feel to be connected to them in way I wasn't before. But this I think comes from growing up. It is either me who has changed or it is them. It happens very rarely though. Usually if I don't connect with someone, I never will. But maybe I don't give them the change to prove me wrong. I don't know...
Same here but to create a bond I share some personal info to encourage them to do like-wise.Plus sharing a same experience links people together..even witnessing each other experience something can create a bond.

[Hmm]

Me?

It isn't moods I can tell you that. I just don't feel like I can be myself if there are lots of new people around, and with some people the feeling doesn't go away even when I get to know them better. For some of these people, there can be a sudden change so that I can feel to be connected to them in way I wasn't before. But this I think comes from growing up. It is either me who has changed or it is them. It happens very rarely though. Usually if I don't connect with someone, I never will. But maybe I don't give them the change to prove me wrong. I don't know...

That was to the OP but I don't mind if other people answer it too.

[cascademn]

This is something I sometimes struggle with. 'Struggle' isn't exactly the right word, but it's all I can come up with right now.

I just feel like I have many different sides of my personality (well, I suppose everyone does, so it's not like I'm unique in this respect), and in any one situation or with any one person, in any one moment, it's simply an impossibility, or unrealistic, or unnecessary, for all sides to surface -- because not all sides pertain to that given situation or moment in time. I've never viewed it as being many versions of myself, but sometimes I do feel like a chameleon. Part of it might be due to my desire to reach common ground with others, and so I build upon similarities. So the stuff we have in common may be the only thing that shows up for quite a long time, and then the other person might learn of another side of me and then they'll get confused or something, or think I'm a mass of contradictions, or think I've been fake(it's happened before), which I haven't been. It's just not possible for all sides to emerge all at once.

This is where I sometimes worry that it would be impossible for any one person to accept everything about me -- because at some point, some side is going to emerge that they just don't understand or cannot accept.

Edit: So to loop back to the OP, I don't really ever see myself as 'pretending'. I think all of it's the real me, but I do get confused at times (and imagine others might as well) due to the fact that I have these different sides that may not emerge all that often, because there's no 'place' for them in a situation, no context...

[Apollanaut]

I subscribe to the theory that we all have multiple personalities. For healthy people, there is a relatively seamless transition from one personality to another, which requires active observation to notice. Under stress, the extremes of our different "selves" become more noticable. In some very unhealthy people, the personalities have become disassociated from the core Self - this is what is commonly known as Multiple Personality Disorder.

There is a school of thought in the MBTI community that each of our eight type functions is intimately linked to a specific internal Jungian archetype. According to this school, it is impossible to use a function without invoking its associated archetype. Therefore every person has at least eight different "personalities", since we generally have to use all 8 functions in our lives (some more than others, of course). The archetypes and functions are as follows:

Primary Processes
We can consciously control these through development and use.

1. Dominant/Hero/Heroine/Leading - organizes adaptation; initiates individuation; has our complete trust. Can become overbearing and domineering if over-used. We have the most conscious control over this function and energy costs for using this function are low.

2. Auxiliary/Father/Mother/Supporting - Supports and nurtures dominant function; sets standard of perfection; how we are helpful to ourselves and others. Can be overprotective and smothering. More energy costs than the dominant function, but still relatively low.

3. Tertiary/Puer/Puella/Relief - the playful and vulnerable child; moderates the purposefulness of the dominant and auxiliary functions allowing the person to lighten up and relax; how we express our creativity and improvisational skills; unsettling to others; high energy costs.

4. Inferior/Anima/Animus/Aspirational - gateway to the unconscious; last function we have conscious control over; source of ideals that are difficult to live up to; sense of purpose, inspiration, and change; likely to look immature when using this function; high energy costs.

Shadow Processes
These are usually experienced negatively and are beyond our conscious control. All have high energy costs.

5. Opposing - defends by offending, seducing, or avoiding, provides self-critiquing; refuses to play by the rules; serves as a passive or aggressive adversary to the Hero/Heroine of other people; can provide backup for one's own Hero/Heroine.

6. Critical Parent/Witch/Senex - finds weak spots in ourselves and others; appears under extreme duress; seeks to discourage, cast doubt, set limits, and belittles; is authoritarian and stern; can be the source of new discoveries.

7. Deceiving/Trickster - mischievous, wreaks havoc, circumvents obstacles, petulant; is not trustworthy when seen in other people; fools us into thinking something is important to do or pay attention to; compensates for the trust of the puer/puella and insulates against the cruelties of the world; is often the source of our sense of humour.

8. Devilish/Demon/Daimon - destructive to ourselves and others, undermines, often erupts violently; distorts trust in relationships, promotes chaos; can be powerfully transformative.

As an INFJ, the order of my functions according to this hypothesis is:

1. Ni
2. Fe
3. Ti
4. Se
5. Ne
6. Fi
7. Te
8. Si

My personal experiences with my own processes, as well as those of people whose type I know very well, has convinced me that this is an accurate description of how the functions operate in at least some people. Each archetype may be personified in our dreams, and some of its traits may come to the surface when we are using a function. For example, the Anima is the female aspect of a man. Under stress, a man's voice may become more feminine (eg. rising noticably in pitch - I certainly do this!). This is supposedly a sign that the Anima has been invoked. Females may do the opposite - a throaty deep-pitched growl as their masculine Animus rises to the surface.

See this thread for more info:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/1416-archetypes-functions.html

[burkeus]

There is a school of thought in the MBTI community that each of our eight type functions is intimately linked to a specific internal Jungian archetype. According to this school, it is impossible to use a function without invoking its associated archetype.

Thank you. This is so much more helpful to me (working with archetypes rather than trying to learn MBTI type/function stuff which I couldn't really get into, not did I try.) So Harrison, what was the name of that book about archetypes and scriptwriting, do you remember?

[Jack Flak]

Victor rules.

[Apollanaut]

Thank you. This is so much more helpful to me (working with archetypes rather than trying to learn MBTI type/function stuff which I couldn't really get into, not did I try.) So Harrison, what was the name of that book about archetypes and scriptwriting, do you remember?

You may be interested to know that the originator of this idea, the Jungian analyst Dr John Beebe, is himself an ENTP.

[gloomy-optimist]

I subscribe to the theory that we all have multiple personalities. For healthy people, there is a relatively seamless transition from one personality to another, which requires active observation to notice. Under stress, the extremes of our different "selves" become more noticable. In some very unhealthy people, the personalities have become disassociated from the core Self - this is what is commonly known as Multiple Personality Disorder.

There is a school of thought in the MBTI community that each of our eight type functions is intimately linked to a specific internal Jungian archetype. According to this school, it is impossible to use a function without invoking its associated archetype. Therefore every person has at least eight different "personalities", since we generally have to use all 8 functions in our lives (some more than others, of course). The archetypes and functions are as follows:...


That's interesting! I could see that in my own experiences a bit, as well :) Although I would be a bit nit-picky in pointing out that Multiple Personality Disorder goes beyond just disassociating from Self to actually seeming as if there are completely different entities within oneself.
I would agree overall according to the descriptions you've assigned (I'm not so good with identifying functions yet, but I see myself in the descriptions >.>).


On a personal rather than technical basis, I do have different faces for different situations. I don't really like to go so far as to call them personalities normally...to me, they're like different pieces to the overall puzzle. I don't consciously hide things from people; it's a very natural process, but it is kind of annoying sometimes. Especially because I find it very difficult to connect to someone on a really intimate basis; it's just hard for me to believe that people "know" me.
I don't know. It's difficult to explain. It all depends on the mood, situation, and how judgemental the person is.

[Athenian200]

Well, I'd say there are a few of me.

1. Inquisitive me - I ask lots of questions and carefully explore an idea someone else is talking about, while possibly expressing my own thoughts on it, and my own ideas that seem connected to it. I'm usually in this mode when I'm interested in and curious about something. This is probably the only mode I truly enjoy.

2. Formal me - I go mostly silent, and disappear underneath a series of stock phrases, commonly held perspectives, careful focus on work, and rigid behaviors to avoid seeming unusual or out of place. I can tolerate it, but it's not comfortable or rewarding.

3. Concerned me - I concern myself with someone else's happiness/comfort, and keep trying to do things that will make them feel better, subtly or openly depending on the situation. I try to offer compassionate advice, listen to them, say what they probably want/need to hear, etc. This can be rewarding and comforting in the long run, but it really isn't fun. It doesn't tire me at all, though.

4. Legalistic/Geek me - I pay careful attention to every detail, saying everything with precision and nitpicking at every flaw I see. Will complain about lack of precision and vagueness, decry unwritten rules and dismiss context and personal experience/values as meaningless things that create bias in perception. This can be fun when it's used on and off with 1. If it's used straight for a while, it's just tiring/tedious, though. Not really bad.

5. Irrational me - I moan and groan about every little thing that bugs me (noises, smells, pains, thoughts, fears, movements, etc), angrily tell people to shut up whenever they try to talk to me, and feel paranoid about everything I think to be paranoid about. I blame everything on other people, accuse them of ridiculous things, and won't take any responsibility for my own feelings. I also criticize everything other people do, sometimes with reason, sometimes arbitrarily. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I lash out violently, sometimes I yell, and sometimes I just lie down and refuse to move. There are certain people who can bring me out of this mode instead of waiting for me to get out myself, but they're rare. I don't like to be this way.

Those are the basics.

[Anja]

Having had a number of jobs with different aspects I've been able to learn a variety of "languages", both verbal and physical.

There was a time when this felt chameleon-like and dishonest and was confusing to me. Now I find it a social convenience to be able to adjust to the status quo fairly rapidly.

When in Rome. . .

But my values remain static.

[soleil]

Great topic!


Being a chameleon works for me. Having multiple personalities makes it easier to understand people and blend into an environment, or conversation. At times, it can be quite draining expressing those sides of me because I feel I'm trying too hard to please people. It feels like work sometimes, and others times not so much. It is definitely a good thing though. :)