NTJs: how does Fi manifest in your type?

[Babylon Candle]

NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...

[INTJMom]

NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...
I'm a novice at the processes.
Would you mind defining it for me?

[Babylon Candle]

I'm a novice at the processes.
Would you mind defining it for me?

it is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

The Relief Role (Tertiary) (sometimes referred to as the 3rd function)
The relief role gives us a way to energize and recharge ourselves. It serves as a backup to the supporting role and often works in tandem with it. When we are younger, we might not engage in the process that plays this role very much unless our life circumstances require it or make it hard to use the supporting role process. Usually, in young adulthood we are attracted to activities that draw upon this process. The relief role often is how we express our creativity. It is how we are playful and childlike. In its most negative expression, this is how we become childish. Then it has an unsettling quality, and we can use this process to distract ourselves and others, getting us off target.

The Aspirational Role (Inferior) (sometimes referred to as the 4th function)
The aspirational role usually doesn’t develop until around midlife. We often experience it first in its negative aspect of projecting our “shoulds,” fears, and negativities onto others. The qualities of these fears reflect the process that plays this role, and we are more likely to look immature when we engage in the process that plays this role. There is often a fairly high energy cost for using it—even when we acquire the skill to do so. As we learn to trust it and develop it, the aspirational role process provides a bridge to balance in our lives. Often our sense of purpose, inspiration, and ideals have the qualities of the process that plays this role.

Introverted Feeling: Valuing; considering importance and worth; reviewing for incongruity; evaluating something based on the truths on which it is based; clarifying values to achieve accord; deciding if something is of significance and worth standing up for. Evaluating whether you like an outfit or not: “This outfit suits me and feels right.”

I think that might help.

[Usehername]

In extreme circumstances (dealing with death of teen cousins twice) my Fi has towed me to the bottom of the sea, feeling deep angst and compassion and searching for an understanding for how my loved ones also left behind feel, how my loved ones who died too young felt as they were dying, and general brooding about the point of life.
It has also helped me gain compassion for others, as not all of my family members processed the deaths in healthy ways, and their lack of doing so affects their lives in negative ways today. It helps me see more clearly how they feel.

Before I'd learned about MBTI, I had seen it in IxTJ teachers and recognized a commonality with them when they knew students were having personal trouble, myself included once. They maintained Te in the classroom and later when no one is looking, privately placed their hand on a student's shoulder and acknowledged their personal struggling with a small smile of hope and compassionate eyes, or went out of their way to accommodate someone's hurting. (When one of my cousins died 36 hours before my Organic Chem Final and I told my INTJ prof I was worried about simply holding my composure for the 3 hour sitting since it was my first experience with death and I kept dissolving into tears, my extraordinarily busy prof who was a mom of 4 offered last-minute and without hesitation to have me write the exam privately so she could let me have the time I needed to write a proper Final. I just wanted to get it over with as I had 4 other exams coming up and was overwhelmed. I ended up just writing it with the class but she was extremely thoughtful.)

In less serious circumstances, my Fi lets me be candid about my feelings (now that I've developed my Fi so strongly) though I don't demonstrate the feelings so much as verbally or textually express them. My CP order is actually Ni-Fi-Te.

[INTJMom]

The part of the definitions that I relate to most are those that describe weighing the value of something. I constantly do this. Everything is evaluated based on whether the effort put in is going to be worth what I get out. These are usually snap decisions based on what I have already decided is important to me in life. I can be talked out of my decision if someone gives me additional reasons why it would be worth it for me to do such-and-such.

For instance, why vacuum the carpet, when in 15 minutes, it will be dirty again?
Not gonna waste my time.

Why spend 2 hours preparing a meal that will take 15 minutes to devour?
Not happening.

I have learned that sometimes it's not important to tell someone my opinion. Other times, I am struck so deeply that I must speak up and I cannot keep silent.

I am always evaluating people's motives, and I am convinced that I am always right. :newwink:

As my tertiary function, I think that may be where my songwriting comes from.

I am driven to evaluate for consistency.

[INTJMom]

In extreme circumstances (dealing with death of teen cousins twice) my Fi has towed me to the bottom of the sea, feeling deep angst and compassion and searching for an understanding for how my loved ones also left behind feel, how my loved ones who died too young felt as they were dying, and general brooding about the point of life.
It has also helped me gain compassion for others, as not all of my family members processed the deaths in healthy ways, and their lack of doing so affects their lives in negative ways today. It helps me see more clearly how they feel.

Before I'd learned about MBTI, I had seen it in IxTJ teachers and recognized a commonality with them when they knew students were having personal trouble, myself included once. They maintained Te in the classroom and later when no one is looking, privately placed their hand on a student's shoulder and acknowledged their personal struggling with a small smile of hope and compassionate eyes, or went out of their way to accommodate someone's hurting. (When one of my cousins died 36 hours before my Organic Chem Final and I told my INTJ prof I was worried about simply holding my composure for the 3 hour sitting since it was my first experience with death and I kept dissolving into tears, my extraordinarily busy prof who was a mom of 4 offered last-minute and without hesitation to have me come over to her place and write the exam privately so she could let me have the time I needed to write a proper Final. I just wanted to get it over with as I had 4 other exams coming up and was overwhelmed. I ended up just writing it with the class but she was extremely thoughtful.)

In less serious circumstances, my Fi lets me be candid about my feelings (now that I've developed my Fi so strongly) though I don't demonstrate the feelings so much as verbally or textually express them. My CP order is actually Ni-Fi-Te.
Like that teacher, I have an uncanny habit of being drawn to the person in the room in the most private pain.

[Eryndil]

I'm INTx but I seem to have a well developed Fi (as opposed to my extremely under-developed Fe). I tend to have very strong values and an inner sense of right and wrong. I am also very aware of my own feelings and the reasons for them. I can feel compassion very deeply (to the extent of crying with empathy for someone I have never met) but I probably wouldn't be able to tell them that or give them any kind of comforting words.

[Babylon Candle]

would any of you relate to: the desire to understand your emotions in a cause and effect sort of way? when I was younger I would feel like a slave to whatever i was feeling, if i had some strong feeling...like even though I would know why...i would just have to ride it out. If im in a certain mood, I have to listen to music that fits that mood, no matter how much I like some other song irrespective of the current mood.



I was hoping there would be more responses. I could use more than an n= 3 for my psudo-study

[INTJMom]

would any of you relate to: the desire to understand your emotions in a cause and effect sort of way? when I was younger I would feel like a slave to whatever i was feeling, if i had some strong feeling...like even though I would know why...i would just have to ride it out. If im in a certain mood, I have to listen to music that fits that mood, no matter how much I like some other song irrespective of the current mood.
Definitely. I would be driven to evaluate what I was feeling and why. Then I would agonize over whether or not I had the right to feel that way! I'm still a slave to my feelings, though not as badly.

[Uytuun]

I wrote a poem yesterday...which helped me to understand/grasp (the nature of) what I was feeling. So there. ;)

Fi seems to work with Ni for me, making me feel very deeply, but in a non-concrete or person-oriented way. It's a flow, yeah, and you have to ride it and it's definitely introverted.

As for the judging aspect, I've noticed I can get exessively upset about injustice, unfairness, unfair representations, lies...but again, about the concept of it, the idea of it, not the result. My strongest reactions occur when I am the victim of the injustice. Otherwise I'll be empathic, but not indignant.

Speaking of empathy, an example: I will get upset when people don't make the effort to talk to a new person that's introduced into the group (a boyfriend of a girl in our group of friends, for example) and the new person is standing around in silence, but I thinks it stems from the fact that *I* wouldn't want to be in his situation, because it violates my principles, my ideas of "ideal" human interaction (and as an INTJ such situations used to be particularly difficult). I can put myself into the other person's shoes and live their pain. Now that I mention this, that's probably also what drives me to action - I go up to them and talk because I can sense their distress and it makes me uncomfortable. This process possesses an urgency that I recognise in my ESFP friend and that appears to be much less expressed in my INFJ friend. In that situation, I actually feel bad about/frustrated with the fact that the rest of my friends (except for the ESFP then) remain so apathetic, apparently they don't pick up the feeling.

I guess it's very subject-oriented despite the fact that it can come across as catering to people, which it is I suppose. This last aspect might also be the reason why I am less "dominant" in a relationship than I am in all the other parts of my life. I think that this is something that other INTJs have mentioned as well.

[INTJMom]

I wrote a poem yesterday...which helped me to understand/grasp (the nature of) what I was feeling. So there. ;)

Fi seems to work with Ni for me, making me feel very deeply, but in a non-concrete or person-oriented way. It's a flow, yeah, and you have to ride it and it's definitely introverted.

As for the judging aspect, I've noticed I can get exessively upset about injustice, unfairness, unfair representations, lies...but again, about the concept of it, the idea of it, not the result. My strongest reactions occur when I am the victim of the injustice. Otherwise I'll be empathic, but not indignant.

Speaking of empathy, an example: I will get upset when people don't make the effort to talk to a new person that's introduced into the group (a boyfriend of a girl in our group of friends, for example) and the new person is standing around in silence, but I thinks it stems from the fact that *I* wouldn't want to be in his situation, because it violates my principles, my ideas of "ideal" human interaction (and as an INTJ such situations used to be particularly difficult). I can put myself into the other person's shoes and live their pain. Now that I mention this, that's probably also what drives me to action - I go up to them and talk because I can sense their distress and it makes me uncomfortable. This process possesses an urgency that I recognise in my ESFP friend and that appears to be much less expressed in my INFJ friend. In that situation, I actually feel bad about/frustrated with the fact that the rest of my friends (except for the ESFP then) remain so apathetic, apparently they don't pick up the feeling.

I guess it's very subject-oriented despite the fact that it can come across as catering to people, which it is I suppose. This last aspect might also be the reason why I am less "dominant" in a relationship than I am in all the other parts of my life. I think that this is something that other INTJs have mentioned as well.
I second all that.

[Trinity]

Thirded :yes:

[MacGuffin]

I can put myself into the other person's shoes and live their pain. Now that I mention this, that's probably also what drives me to action - I go up to them and talk because I can sense their distress and it makes me uncomfortable.

A bit of Fe at work perhaps too?

[Uytuun]

A bit of Fe at work perhaps too?

I'm not entirely devoid of Fe, naturally, but wouldn't going up to them be anti-Fe? The reaction of my friends often indicates that I'm doing something outside of the established social norms, I go there to address what lies beneath, because it tugs at me, not to define roles and figure out social relationship status by interacting with them.

Extraverted Feeling (http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Extraverted_feeling)

I like this description of Fe.

I've noticed that you can actually see the difference in the gifts you are given. A Fi user will give you a more personalised, original, quirky gift, a Fe user will give you a gift that corresponds with your role in society and in their lives, with the nature of the event etc.

[proteanmix]

I've noticed that you can actually see the difference in the gifts you are given. A Fi user will give you a more personalised, original, quirky gift, a Fe user will give you a gift that corresponds with your role in society and in their lives, with the nature of the event etc.

Cripes, Fe is a tad more flexible than that.

[Uytuun]

Then mentally add modifiers such as "more" and "are more likely to", "tend to" or "underlying their gift more often is" to the sentence. ;)

*lacks Fe* Actually it did briefly cross my mind that the sentence was a bit strong and might offend people, but it apparently wasn't enough for me to change it - that's not what it was about for me. I've run into trouble with a couple of INFJs because of this very thing.

Anyhow, would you disagree?

[MacGuffin]

I'm not entirely devoid of Fe, naturally, but wouldn't going up to them be anti-Fe? The reaction of my friends often indicates that I'm doing something outside of the established social norms, I go there to address what lies beneath, because it tugs at me, not to define roles and figure out social relationship status by interacting with them.

Extraverted Feeling (http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Extraverted_feeling)

I like this description of Fe.

I've noticed that you can actually see the difference in the gifts you are given. A Fi user will give you a more personalised, original, quirky gift, a Fe user will give you a gift that corresponds with your role in society and in their lives, with the nature of the event etc.
Fe doesn't follow established norms all the time anymore than Te follows established thinking. Sometimes Fe just lets you connect with another person, social norms be dammed.

[Eryndil]

would any of you relate to: the desire to understand your emotions in a cause and effect sort of way? when I was younger I would feel like a slave to whatever i was feeling, if i had some strong feeling...like even though I would know why...i would just have to ride it out. If im in a certain mood, I have to listen to music that fits that mood, no matter how much I like some other song irrespective of the current mood.

I was hoping there would be more responses. I could use more than an n= 3 for my psudo-study

I can relate to that. Most of my life, I've been analysing my emotions (along with everything else!) so I usually understand what has caused a particular feeling. Unfortunately, that doesn't make it any easier to change how I feel. My situation is that I can usually control my emotions but when they are strong, they tend to control me instead.

I do find myself drawn to music that reflects my mood. Sometimes I try to resist that temptation and listen to a more upbeat tune if I'm feeling bad. Very occasionally it works, but it's difficult to do.

[Jennifer]

I... A Fi user will give you a more personalised, original, quirky gift, a Fe user will give you a gift that corresponds with your role in society and in their lives, with the nature of the event etc.

Meh. Maybe if you're discussing it as a primary or perhaps secondary, but once you veer into tertiary land, it can go either way depending on situation/context.

(Because also at that point, if Fi or Fe is your 3rd/4th function, that means you have either an S or an N with more dominance up front, and those things HEAVILY drive practicality vs quirk.)

[Santtu]

I've focused on Fi extremely lot during my burnout years.. I've watched various TV drama series featuring unhappy love, drank booze and cried my eyes out.. Then, there has been happiness from doing what I consider right.. there has been extremely lot going on with my feelings for many years. I've longed for contact, mutual harmony, and disappointed of the world's cruelty. I've exposed myself to feelings freely; searched what they say, where they'll lead me. I've found direction in that.

Then again, I've observed how Fi betrays people and makes them attach to suboptimal solutions.. how it gives rise to unsubstantiated "theories". Aware of my emotions, I've felt what I've felt, and thought Fi isn't the winner function for me. It isn't much involved in any winning strategy in anything.. not much personally, anyway. It's good to be able to use Fi sometimes, but I guess I don't use it that much anymore, or at least I don't think about it that much anymore.

I'm still moved to tears now and then, which I consider good; mostly, I just lack empathy, though I can deduct what the other person's feelings are. Then again, Fi matters to me every day when I think of what kind of food I'd like, what company, music, etc.. and I measure my quality of life a lot by what kinds of feelings I've experienced with Fi. So I guess I still use Fi alot, though in a less dramatic manner.

[mlittrell]

with a question like this the E and I is sort of important (the orientation of the functions are different). With ENTJs it tends to be an unconscious cognitive process that rarely manifests itself in a conscious way. INTJs, well, i wouldn't know, i assume it is something they can consciously play around with but not use confortably on a constant basis.

[INTJMom]

with a question like this the E and I is sort of important (the orientation of the functions are different). With ENTJs it tends to be an unconscious cognitive process that rarely manifests itself in a conscious way. INTJs, well, i wouldn't know, i assume it is something they can consciously play around with but not use confortably on a constant basis.
For INTJs, Fi is the 3rd function.
For ENTJs, Fi is the 4th function.

[mlittrell]

For INTJs, Fi is the 3rd function.
For ENTJs, Fi is the 4th function.

ya taht was my point

ENTJ (Te, Ni, Se, Fi)
INTJ (Ni, Te, Fi, Se)

[INTJMom]

sorry. misunderstood.

[DigitalMethod]

Definitely. I would be driven to evaluate what I was feeling and why. Then I would agonize over whether or not I had the right to feel that way! I'm still a slave to my feelings, though not as badly.


Exactly my thoughts on the matter.

Slave to my feelings.

Focused on why I feel that way.

Sometimes though I just wallow in the feeling though I do have to admit.

One of the hardest things I've had to face in life, is when I am feeling a certain way very heavily and cannot figure it out. Depressed, sad, or apathic, I don't question really 'happy feelings'. But anyway if I am feeling one of those, it will overwhelm me sometimes, if I cannot figure out why I feel that way, if I cannot make sense of my feelings, that's when the wallowing occurs, that's when life gets painfully slow, it sucks.

But in regards to wallowing sometimes I will know why I am feeling a certain way, but the feeling will just be so overwhelming that I can't help but wallow until the storm passes.

[Babylon Candle]

with a question like this the E and I is sort of important (the orientation of the functions are different). With ENTJs it tends to be an unconscious cognitive process that rarely manifests itself in a conscious way. INTJs, well, i wouldn't know, i assume it is something they can consciously play around with but not use confortably on a constant basis.

ya taht was my point

ENTJ (Te, Ni, Se, Fi)
INTJ (Ni, Te, Fi, Se)

so what predictions does this the cognitive theory make by having Fi 3rd or 4th?



is it like Se in INJ vs ENJ:

INJ: trouble with alcohol
ENJ: playful displays of Se/lots of Se toys-think Tony Stark IronMan

(im partially kidding with the alcohol comment)

how does Fi change from being 3rd or 4th?

[Haphazard]

how does Fi change from being 3rd?

In particularly bad cases, it gives you this awful voice in your head. I think it's called a conscience...

[DigitalMethod]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't our fourth function our stress function?

Like we tend to more-so heavily rely on it when we are stressed.

If you keep that in mind, 3rd and 4th have a huge difference.

That's like relief versus stress.

[Babylon Candle]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't our fourth function our stress function?

Like we tend to more-so heavily rely on it when we are stressed.

If you keep that in mind, 3rd and 4th have a huge difference.

That's like relief versus stress.

i think my Se example with ENXJ vs INXJ definitely shows evidence of this.


so it shouldnt really be about whether or not you feel or dont feel. this thread seems to evidence that that kind of theory is utter bullshit. It should really be about in what WAY Fi is expressed rather than by HOW OFTEN you deal with it.

example:
INFP Fi as dominant = how they make decisions
ENFP Fi is parent = guides their dominant
INTJ Fi as relief = a somewhat enjoyable escape from your dominant
ENTJ Fi as stress = a stress point that often nags in your head in opposition to your Dominant

You all probably already knew that. But I think it can be re-interpreted to be more profound when you consider that its possible that on certain days, Fi might "come up" just as often for all 4 of those people, yet its the attitude towards Fi that differs, not the quantity of Fi thoughts.

agree or disagree?

[DigitalMethod]

i think my Se example with ENXJ vs INXJ definitely shows evidence of this.


so it shouldnt really be about whether or not you feel or dont feel. this thread seems to evidence that that kind of theory is utter bullshit. It should really be about in what WAY Fi is expressed rather than by HOW OFTEN you deal with it.

example:
INFP Fi as dominant = how they make decisions
ENFP Fi is parent = guides their dominant
INTJ Fi as relief = a somewhat enjoyable escape from your dominant
ENTJ Fi as stress = a stress point that often nags in your head in opposition to your Dominant

You all probably already knew that. But I think it can be re-interpreted to be more profound when you consider that its possible that on certain days, Fi might "come up" just as often for all 4 of those people, yet its the attitude towards Fi that differs, not the quantity of Fi thoughts.

agree or disagree?

I express Se when I'm stressed. I hear, everything, and it gets really annoying. I also play games when I'm stressed which might be considered a representation of Se?

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I don't think it's possible to ever measure the quantity of thoughts so.. :thinking:

But yeah I understand what you're saying, that even if my Fi comes up I might brush it off due to something, while if a Fi issue comes up for an INFP they would be much more inclined to embrace it. I agree with that aspect.

Although at the same time I don't feel right saying, "Everyone (or groups of types) has/have equal amounts of function use." Because I highly doubt Fi comes up in my daily life the same amount as an INFP or ENFP ...Although... it might not come up as much in my life as much as an INFP or ENFP because I am not totally guided by it as much as Ni/Te. The sort of "ever present yet never visible" thing. While for an ENFP or INFP it would be more of the "ever present and always visible".

My thoughts are, it's a good theory.

[YourLocalJesus]

NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...

I'm a lie detector-kind of person. I can tell if someone is lying or keeping the truth hidden, in most cases. Or just being general bullshitters, fools trying to sell me useless shit etc. This is not something i've been born with, it's something i've had to focus on to develop in order to get it working properly, I believe. I was quite gullible when I was a kid. But I learned kinda quickly that the only person I can count on in all conditions is myself. Maybe not even that. :D

[mlittrell]

so what predictions does this the cognitive theory make by having Fi 3rd or 4th?



is it like Se in INJ vs ENJ:

INJ: trouble with alcohol
ENJ: playful displays of Se/lots of Se toys-think Tony Stark IronMan

(im partially kidding with the alcohol comment)

how does Fi change from being 3rd or 4th?

look at my message above to see the orientation. your first two functions are much more conscious and you are able to use them whenever you need them. your tertiary isn't as immediate but it can manifest itself consciously if need be, its more of a novelty i suppose. your shadow is very much unconscious and might poke its head out from time to time. remember, each function acts as an individual part of a team, not as an individual entity. all this to say, in an ENFP for my sake, Te (tertiary) isn't the same as Te (dominant) in an ENTJ. The Te filters through Ne and Fi in an ENFP, so though the basic idea of Te is the same, it is used and shows itself in a very different way.

pardon the random stream of thought lol hope it makes sense

[Babylon Candle]

look at my message above to see the orientation. your first two functions are much more conscious and you are able to use them whenever you need them. your tertiary isn't as immediate but it can manifest itself consciously if need be, its more of a novelty i suppose. your shadow is very much unconscious and might poke its head out from time to time. remember, each function acts as an individual part of a team, not as an individual entity. all this to say, in an ENFP for my sake, Te (tertiary) isn't the same as Te (dominant) in an ENTJ. The Te filters through Ne and Fi in an ENFP, so though the basic idea of Te is the same, it is used and shows itself in a very different way.

pardon the random stream of thought lol hope it makes sense

so would you say that the tertiary Te in an ENFP is only there in so much as to do what Ne and Fi need it to do?

ex:
Te is used by the ENFP to argue for what their Fi tells them.
Te is used by the INTJ to argue for what their Ni tells them.
Te is used by the ENTJ to make everything as efficient as possible in pursuit of goals.

all of that relates to a conscious purpose, while the INFP Te is only there to cause grief?

Relate this Fi:
Fi is used by INFP to make everything as harmonious with inner values as possible.
Fi is used by the ENFP to guide Ne in what is important to values
Fi is used by INTJs to relieve the blind spots of Ni/Te in relation to their inner values

all of that relates to conscious purpose, while Fi in the ENTJ mainly causes grief?

I know i am oversimplifying, but I often grasp best when I oversimplify to begin with and learn to add flexibility later.


ENTJ
As other inferior functions {4th}, it has only a rudimentary awareness of context, amount or degree...Indiscretions of indulgence are likely an expression of the unconscious vengeance of the inferior...When overdone or taken too seriously, Fi turned outward often becomes maudlin or melodramatic.

INTJ
Feeling has a modest inner room, two doors down from the Most Imminent iNtuition. It doesn't get out much, but lends its influence on behalf of causes which are Good and Worthy and Humane. We may catch a glimpse of it in the unspoken attitude of good will, or the gracious smile or nod. Some question the existence of Feeling in this type, yet its unseen balance to Thinking is a cardinal dimension in the full measure of the INTJ's soul.

[mlittrell]

ok the way i see Te in an ENFP is like this (ive used this analogy before, probably too much): Ne and Fi are two scholars that both have expertise in different fields and speak two different languages. Te is a translator that helps Ne and Fi communicate and it has Si helping direct.

maybe a better analogy: Ne receives information, Fi decides what to do with that information and Te is a structure to give Fi foundation. with that foundation created by Fi, the ENFP will have something to build off of. they can then layer ideas on top of older ideas etc. thats a very quick and dirty analogy (both are) but Te lends structure to the fairly unstructured ENFP.

ive noticed many emotionally unintelligent ENFPs (they tend to not have a well developed tertiary) who have almost a split between the first two functions. they will go from extreme Ne goofyness to extreme Fi introspection and seriousness. they will have great little ideas but they cant seem to pull them all together into one big idea because of that lack of grounding. this is a reason that an INTJ is a good mate for an ENFP...grounding. this refers back to the wise scholars analogy where the Ne and Fi are able to talk fluidly together with the help of Te.

[LeonardoLestat]

NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...

Acting like nothing affects me emotionally, trying to push emotion out of reasoning, dissociating from things, feeling 'alienated', rebelling with my identity, my feelings theyre chaotic and lots of the time i cant really tell what im feeling or why...

i shield myself from strong emotions, and in effect i look for intensity..

frustration comes from 'goddamnit, the process is held back because these pesty emotions interfere>D'

and. i overreact. :P

[Frank]

I have found that I usually deal with feelings in one of two ways. If it is a negative feeling it is either ignored or logically broken down thus removing the feeling altogether. If I can understand something it does not bother me too much. When dealing with positive feelings I just try and ride the wave and enjoy it while it is there. I guess thats three ways.

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

I wrote a poem yesterday...which helped me to understand/grasp (the nature of) what I was feeling. So there. ;)

Fi seems to work with Ni for me, making me feel very deeply, but in a non-concrete or person-oriented way. It's a flow, yeah, and you have to ride it and it's definitely introverted.

As for the judging aspect, I've noticed I can get exessively upset about injustice, unfairness, unfair representations, lies...but again, about the concept of it, the idea of it, not the result. My strongest reactions occur when I am the victim of the injustice. Otherwise I'll be empathic, but not indignant.

Speaking of empathy, an example: I will get upset when people don't make the effort to talk to a new person that's introduced into the group (a boyfriend of a girl in our group of friends, for example) and the new person is standing around in silence, but I thinks it stems from the fact that *I* wouldn't want to be in his situation, because it violates my principles, my ideas of "ideal" human interaction (and as an INTJ such situations used to be particularly difficult). I can put myself into the other person's shoes and live their pain. Now that I mention this, that's probably also what drives me to action - I go up to them and talk because I can sense their distress and it makes me uncomfortable. This process possesses an urgency that I recognise in my ESFP friend and that appears to be much less expressed in my INFJ friend. In that situation, I actually feel bad about/frustrated with the fact that the rest of my friends (except for the ESFP then) remain so apathetic, apparently they don't pick up the feeling.

I guess it's very subject-oriented despite the fact that it can come across as catering to people, which it is I suppose. This last aspect might also be the reason why I am less "dominant" in a relationship than I am in all the other parts of my life. I think that this is something that other INTJs have mentioned as well.

Fourth-ded.

Except I wrote my poem this morning. :D