How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

[ThatGirl]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

How do you view ENTJs?

What would you like to see more of from ENTJs?

What could you do without?

[Edahn]

Seriously yo, what's up with these titles that always seem to be missing words?

"Um" "Wait a sec, is" "Are INTPs the" "Is herpes?" C'mon man. Help a moderator out.

[ThatGirl]

Seriously yo, what's up with these titles that always seem to be missing words?

"Um" "Wait a sec, is" "Are INTPs the" "Is herpes?" C'mon man. Help a moderator out.

Im leaving them open for interpretation thats all?

What thinks? Is it?

[Edahn]

Im leaving them open for interpretation thats all?

What thinks? Is it?

You can still describe it a bit more?

It shouldn't be completely open to interpretation because it's about something, not just the ENTJ type in general?

Even calling it "some questions about ENTJs" would be better?

Why does everything end with a question mark?

[ThatGirl]

Because I have no certainty on anything?

I am leaving my statements open for interpretation?

What about ENTJ?

Any imput?

[Jack Flak]

I typed a higher-up at a place of work as likely ENTJ. He had great interpersonal skills, probably not only through life experience but actual training such as seminars and literature. Search the webs for "the best" books on corporate relations, that kind of thing. Bound to find something.

[Tallulah]

Some ENTJs tend to have an attitude of "Prove to me that you're worth listening to/worth my time." Obviously, that's off-putting. Just give people the benefit of the doubt, and understand that others process things differently. Be aware of the ENTJ tendency to come off as intimidating, and ask others for their input.

[IlyaK1986]

Answer? You fake it. Just smile and stay observant and let people come to you.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Just grow up and accept that there are different views of the world that are just as valid as yours. This is true for every type.

[Nighthawk]

Personally, I like ENTJs ... except for that tendency many have to want to take charge all the time. A bit more leadership by committed would be nice. Of course, I imagine that many ENTJs see me as a bit too laissez faire.

[YourLocalJesus]

Just grow up and accept that there are different views of the world that are just as valid as yours. This is true for every type.

Definitely, because NT's are so bad at being objective about things. :doh: Most of us have a problem with NF's logic and (probably) SJ rule shit... We walk around frustrated at people a lot of the time. I believe many ENTJ's feel as if they are better off doing everything themselves, because most of the time we regard just about everyone as complete morons.

[LadyJaye]

ENTJ men circle around me a bit, and then they try to make me their woman. It's an interesting approach.

[YourLocalJesus]

We like ENFP's. Oh we do. But me personally, I can't understand you guys at all.

[LadyJaye]

We like ENFP's. Oh we do. But me personally, I can't understand you guys at all.

It's alright. ENTJs can't be good at everything. We'll do the understanding for you. :D

[YourLocalJesus]

It's alright. ENTJs can't be good at everything. We'll do the understanding for you. :D

That's the part where we run away screaming.

[LadyJaye]

That's the part where we run away screaming.


Your loss. lol

I don't know if the ENTJs I dealt with were atypical, but I was the one resisting and they were the ones trying to convert. I don't know if they thought I was trying to be demure - I wasn't - but keeping them at arm's length seemed to to drive them crazy and make them more determined. Of course, one of those guys was involved in organized crime, so I had a reason to resist.

[Eryndil]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?


Wear a Mickey Mouse costume?

Seriously, my husband is most likely ENTJ and my answer would be: accept that other people's opinions are valid even if they don't agree with yours. Learn that winning an argument is less important than keeping a friendship.

[YourLocalJesus]

Your loss. lol

I don't know if the ENTJs I dealt with were atypical, but I was the one resisting and they were the ones trying to convert. I don't know if they thought I was trying to be demure - I wasn't - but keeping them at arm's length seemed to to drive them crazy and make them more determined. Of course, one of those guys was involved in organized crime, so I had a reason to resist.

Girl, we're all into organized crime. Maybe not, but most of us probably wish we didn't have to suffer the consequences of such a life, because then we would totally be in the mob :)

My personal mob structure:

Top dog: Don Jesus.

Captains: 1 INTP, 1 ENTP, 1 ESTP

The mysterious, cool, hot and unstoppable assassins: 100 hot ISTP chicks, wich also serves as my personal harem and bodyguard. They would all love me. Fo' sho'.

Drug dealers: ISTJ's

Enforcers: ESTJ's with a lot of muscles.

Hopefully i'd find enough tommyguns to equip all my people. Those things are stylish. :D

[LadyJaye]

Girl, we're all into organized crime. Maybe not, but most of us probably wish we didn't have to suffer the consequences of such a life, because then we would totally be in the mob :)

My personal mob structure:

Top dog: Don Jesus.

Captains: 1 INTP, 1 ENTP, 1 ESTP

The mysterious, cool, hot and unstoppable assassins: 100 hot ISTP chicks, wich also serves as my personal harem and bodyguard. They would all love me. Fo' sho'.

Drug dealers: ISTJ's

Enforcers: ESTJ's with a lot of muscles.

Hopefully i'd find enough tommyguns to equip all my people. Those things are stylish. :D


This is quite an elaborate structure plan. LOL. I admire the level of thought involved. ( And I agree that the ISTP girl assassins is the way to go. :D )

Well, this particular guy was part of a seriously dangerous crime family - I didn't realize it at first, until I found a weapon under the seat of his car. Then I was teh freakzorz. That didn't stop him from trying to to take me to see his godfather, or to buy me a house, or to get me to marry him. lol The more I said no, which was a serious emphatic no, it just seemed to make it so much worse. He kept saying he adored me for not wanting his money ( because I kept giving his presents away to charity lol ). How insane.

Yeah, even my best friend, who's a female ENTJ, is forever getting involved in high stakes things. She's all about the power play.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Definitely, because NT's are so bad at being objective about things. :doh: Most of us have a problem with NF's logic and (probably) SJ rule shit... We walk around frustrated at people a lot of the time. I believe many ENTJ's feel as if they are better off doing everything themselves, because most of the time we regard just about everyone as complete morons.

Is it bad that I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not?:shock:

[Cimarron]

Drug dealers: ISTJ's I could handle that, haha! Good organization you've got planned out.

[YourLocalJesus]

Heh, that sounds like a really lonely ENTJ :) Was he really, really ugly or something? You know, we normally play hard to get, I believe. Or if the situation's right (especially if drunk) we go straight at it and openly ask someone if they want to have a drink and maybe some intercourse later. If the answer is no, we don't waste time. :D

I've actually never met a female ENTJ and been able to identify her as such. Maybe once, but i'm yet not certain. It's a girl who goes to the same seminars as me. (We're both on a teacher's program at my university). I used to date an INTJ though, that was horrible. :D

Is it bad that I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not?:shock:

Why on earth would I be sarcastic, dear satelite chris? ;)

I could handle that, haha! Good organization you've got planned out.

As long as you don't try to steal my hoes. You'll get to manage shipping, if you're a nice ISTJ. :cheese:

[LadyJaye]

Heh, that sounds like a really lonely ENTJ :) Was he really, really ugly or something? You know, we normally play hard to get, I believe. Or if the situation's right (especially if drunk) we go straight at it and openly ask someone if they want to have a drink and maybe some intercourse later. If the answer is no, we don't waste time. :D


Actually, he was very handsome. He had women throwing themselves at him constantly. The girl he was dating while he was pursuing me was a runway model, even. :O What he told me was that he was tired of "stupid" girls, that this was the reason he was after me. maybe he was just wound up over the idea that he couldn't have everything he wanted. I don't know.

[YourLocalJesus]

Actually, he was very handsome. He had women throwing themselves at him constantly. The girl he was dating while he was pursuing me was a runway model, even. :O What he told me was that he was tired of "stupid" girls, that this was the reason he was after me. maybe he was just wound up over the idea that he couldn't have everything he wanted. I don't know.

Weird. I can't put myself in his shoes and still be a little like me. :shock:
Are you absolutely sure he was an ENTJ..? I've gotten the impression that most of us don't chase after impossible pie-in-the-sky things just because we can't achieve it. Sure it might sound like that, but most of us have highly concrete and realistic ambitions. But then again, ENFP's in general are quite tempting. And especially so if it's a smart one. I actually "chased" an ENFP girl when I was about 12-15. It was my first real love. And she was pretty stupid. Still really cool personality, though.

I ALWAYS do this. I talk myself to a conclusion :shock: When I started rambling on about it I didn't understand that guy at all, now I do ! :shock:

[OneWithSoul]

I like ENTJs, as do some people, and I don't think they need to be more "likable"..it almost seems as if some people may think that they are inferior, and people always bring out their negative traits, and ignore their positive traits, which are a lot.

[LadyJaye]

Weird. I can't put myself in his shoes and still be a little like me. :shock:
Are you absolutely sure he was an ENTJ..? I've gotten the impression that most of us don't chase after impossible pie-in-the-sky things just because we can't achieve it. Sure it might sound like that, but most of us have highly concrete and realistic ambitions. But then again, ENFP's in general are quite tempting. And especially so if it's a smart one. I actually "chased" an ENFP girl when I was about 12-15. It was my first real love. And she was pretty stupid. Still really cool personality, though.

Well, we were friends. I just had issues with the way he was living his life, but I enjoyed him as a person. My mistake was telling him that - he told me it gave him the incentive to wear me down. Perhaps he saw it as a challenge. He said he liked that I told him no, because very few people did. Anyway, in no way was I trying to be a tease. I tried to be a straight shooter with him at all times.

I ALWAYS do this. I talk myself to a conclusion :shock: When I started rambling on about it I didn't understand that guy at all, now I do ! :shock:

LOL. Well, I'm glad you see it now. Although I'm sorry your first love was stupid. What was up with that mister?!

[Nighthawk]

I've actually never met a female ENTJ and been able to identify her as such.

I've had the pleasure of having an ENTJ girlfriend on two occasions. They were fairly prevalent in the military ... go figure. Both were a handful, to say the least ... but not in a bad way. They were definitely willing to take the lead in the relationship, which sometimes caused me some consternation ... as a typical INTP, I don't like being led.

[YourLocalJesus]

Well, we were friends. I just had issues with the way he was living his life, but I enjoyed him as a person. My mistake was telling him that - he told me it gave him the incentive to wear me down. Perhaps he saw it as a challenge. He said he liked that I told him no, because very few people did. Anyway, in no way was I trying to be a tease. I tried to be a straight shooter with him at all times.


Good, teasing is bad. And only I get to do it. ^^

LOL. Well, I'm glad you see it now. Although I'm sorry your first love was stupid. What was up with that mister?!

Well, she was below average intelligence, so to speak :) But she was hot in just about every sense of the word. At least back then :D I'm talking about a one-in-a-million kind of looks, here. ^^

Heh, we're so much off-topic that it probably itches really bad in the moderators fingers to split the thread ^^

[YourLocalJesus]

I've had the pleasure of having an ENTJ girlfriend on two occasions. They were fairly prevalent in the military ... go figure. Both were a handful, to say the least ... but not in a bad way. They were definitely willing to take the lead in the relationship, which sometimes caused me some consternation ... as a typical INTP, I don't like being led.

Heh, I can understand that much. I hate being whipped, too.

[Usehername]

Read this blog entry (http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/08/26/vulnerability-is-the-key-to-likability-at-work-and-on-the-farm/)from Penelope Trunk, a noted ENTJ.

(Was first a pro beach volleyball player, worked on Wall St., made gazillions of dollars in marketing, then started her own business, now is a very successful writer...)

Vulnerability is the key to likability at work (and on the farm) (http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/08/26/vulnerability-is-the-key-to-likability-at-work-and-on-the-farm/)

[IlyaK1986]

Weird. I can't put myself in his shoes and still be a little like me. :shock:
Are you absolutely sure he was an ENTJ..? I've gotten the impression that most of us don't chase after impossible pie-in-the-sky things just because we can't achieve it. Sure it might sound like that, but most of us have highly concrete and realistic ambitions. But then again, ENFP's in general are quite tempting. And especially so if it's a smart one. I actually "chased" an ENFP girl when I was about 12-15. It was my first real love. And she was pretty stupid. Still really cool personality, though.

I ALWAYS do this. I talk myself to a conclusion :shock: When I started rambling on about it I didn't understand that guy at all, now I do ! :shock:

A) depends what you consider impossible
B) bullshit, speak for yourself. Part of the beauty is in the chase. Even if the odds are way against you.

[IlyaK1986]

Read this blog entry (http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/08/26/vulnerability-is-the-key-to-likability-at-work-and-on-the-farm/)from Penelope Trunk, a noted ENTJ.

(Was first a pro beach volleyball player, worked on Wall St., made gazillions of dollars in marketing, then started her own business, now is a very successful writer...)

Vulnerability is the key to likability at work (and on the farm) (http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/08/26/vulnerability-is-the-key-to-likability-at-work-and-on-the-farm/)

I wiki'd her. No wall street.

[YourLocalJesus]

A) depends what you consider impossible
B) bullshit, speak for yourself. Part of the beauty is in the chase. Even if the odds are way against you.

Want ta hae' a goode auld fistfight about it, lad? :D Sorry, just listening to a stupid scottish song about some barfighter. ^^ Seriously, I got to the point where I agree with you during the time it took me to respond to LadyJaye! :nerd: I chased that girl back in my glory days for about three years! And it wasn't because of loneliness or something, I was a goodlooking kid, and about 50 chicks hit on me directly out in the open during that time. It makes me kinda sad, I could have used it to my advantage. A lot.

[Usehername]

I wiki'd her. No wall street.

Oops! Re-Googled within her blog--she worked next to wall street while marketing, and was almost crushed to death by bodies on 9/11 which made me think that.

[htb]

Penelope Trunk, a noted ENTJ.Her writing, her biography and the most equitable negative comments on the Amazon entry for her book point to an ESTP.

[Edahn]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

The same way anyone would become less threatening: by looking at what makes them threatening, and adjusting.

How do you view ENTJs?

They're cool folks. I like spending time with anyone who's intuitive and enjoys order and logic. I haven't been exposed to too many ENTJs, but my girlfriend is XNTJ.

What would you like to see more of from ENTJs?

Nipple.

What could you do without?

Your questions.
;)

[YourLocalJesus]

[B]What would you like to see more of from ENTJs?

Nipple.


http://www.agarutattoos.com/images/Jackie/nipple%20male.jpg




Just kidding, that's not my nipple. I have two of them, but I don't want to take pictures of 'em

[Edahn]

[IMG]




Just kidding, that's not my nipple. I have two of them, but I don't want to take pictures of 'em

It looked like an SP nipple, anyway. I can tell.

[YourLocalJesus]

Yeah. That was an ugly piercing, and if my chest wasn't as hairy as it is, it'd probably look a lot better. I'm not a pale scrawny guy. ^^

[Usehername]

Her writing, her biography and the most equitable negative comments on the Amazon entry for her book point to an ESTP.

You've read her writing and bio?

I've gone through her entire blog (several days worth of reading) and wholeheartedly identify with the xNTJ female-who-knew-she-wanted-a-family mixed with experience-of-death-trauma-making-you-more-people-oriented-ness. That and she's posted on the fact that she's an ENTJ and seems familiar even with some of the nuances of the MBTI. I'm pretty sure if you read the exact link to the post I referenced, you'll see the Te dom.

[Lateralus]

Actually, he was very handsome. He had women throwing themselves at him constantly. The girl he was dating while he was pursuing me was a runway model, even. :O What he told me was that he was tired of "stupid" girls, that this was the reason he was after me. maybe he was just wound up over the idea that he couldn't have everything he wanted. I don't know.
I can totally relate to this. If I can't have something, that only makes me want it more. I've gotten obsessive over things I didn't even really want, just because I wanted to 'win'.

[Lateralus]

A) depends what you consider impossible
B) bullshit, speak for yourself. Part of the beauty is in the chase. Even if the odds are way against you.
This is the first post you've ever made that I actually agree with.

[Lucifer]

We are winners, so whenever, even subtely, we get the impression that we can't attain something or aren't allowed to, we will do it to prove we can.

We become single minded when this happens, other peoples feelings just don't factor in, we are in competitive mode, and I am sure other ENTJ's can relate.

[YourLocalJesus]

I was one point away from beating samuel de mazarin in mini golf a couple of hours ago... One point. Because I screwed up badly and had to take five shots at the 17th hole :(
This caused me to feel miserable and take a budweiser and a smoke. Then it felt better, he's going down!

[Bougal]

We are winners, so whenever, even subtely, we get the impression that we can't attain something or aren't allowed to, we will do it to prove we can.

We become single minded when this happens, other peoples feelings just don't factor in, we are in competitive mode, and I am sure other ENTJ's can relate.

This is the story of all of my past relationships (or past near relationships). If there is no challenge, there is no attraction; if it is too easy or if I feel like I'm being aggressed, I lose interest very quickly.

[animenagai]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

How do you view ENTJs?

they're a smart bunch with great organization. however, they are also an intense bunch and watching them function is like watching a volcano toasting marshmallows. they do things effectively, but i often think that they need to just chillax.

What would you like to see more of from ENTJs?

cutting people some slack. they're competitive and they're critical. i think seeing ENTJ's adopting a surfer attitude will do good for them. we know they can talk, we know they can think logically. i want to see some better interpersonal skills from an ENTJ. developing that F i think should be a primary goal for them.

What could you do without?

they can be unnecessarily harsh. you can be an intellectual without completely ripping people apart. i think some times someone would say something a bit left field and the ENTJ would go 'wtf are you talking about?' most people may tell them that they are wrong in a friendly way or just not say anything about it. ENTJ's i think do have a tendency of LOOKING arrogant because they don't sugarcoat their response. there's a difference between saying the truth and saying the right thing. i remember an ENTJ asking me if i wanted the rest of the milk. i went 'hmmmm... maybe' a couple of times (i didn't want to drink all of it if someone else wanted some). he called me a wimp :D

[YourLocalJesus]

[B]What could you do without?

they can be unnecessarily harsh. you can be an intellectual without completely ripping people apart. i think some times someone would say something a bit left field and the ENTJ would go 'wtf are you talking about?' most people may tell them that they are wrong in a friendly way or just not say anything about it. ENTJ's i think do have a tendency of LOOKING arrogant because they don't sugarcoat their response. there's a difference between saying the truth and saying the right thing. i remember an ENTJ asking me if i wanted the rest of the milk. i went 'hmmmm... maybe' a couple of times (i didn't want to drink all of it if someone else wanted some). he called me a wimp :D

I don't know about the other ENTJ's but when i'm critizised I act as if under serious fire, then the "sugar coating" goes straight off, bayonett on, charge!
I can't stand anyone challenging me directly. I will snap and tell the person what I think, wich can be pretty harsh. Then I will hear about it a long time afterwards how awful I am to argue with. Some people call this "steamrolling". Challenges disturbs my balance, and will be evened with the ground if possible. If not possible, I will eventually find a way to get rid of the problem even if I have to get a bloody PhD, write a few books and kill a few people in the process. No but seriously. ENTJ's are "born to lead", even if intellectually suited for this or not we need to be on top. If someone challenges our social position there will be war.

What we could do is to know when we're actually being challenged or if it's just a discussion. I've learned to control it a little better over the years, but I can still be pretty bad and earn a few enemies here and there. I work setting up concerts sometimes, roadie work. One time I insulted Eric Burdon of The Animals. And I kind of shoved him out of my way. Of course I would have done the same knowing it was him, but I didn't, and he was rude as hell. :D You should have seen his face, I bet he isn't used to being insulted by mere mortals ^^

[FDG]

I think you (we) just need to socialize more without preconceptions on other people. At the same time, it's better to avoid interacting with people that we really despise, because they will only add irritability.

Instead of trying to be super-efficient and achievment-oriented all the time, relax and go to the beach doing nothing for a while. Be more like an ISFp.

Maybe it's because I am a lazy italian, but I don't relate to the fact that the less I can have of something, the more I feel the need for it. However I may just be underestimating this part of my personality.

I've had an ENFp girlfriend and in my experience they don't play hard to get? I mean, Fi creative people are the easiest to start relationships with.

[Santtu]

I've looked at some posts from our ENTJs, and I'm thinking that the dominating attitude so common with that type doesn't have to be that way. Some people propagate the idea of ENTJ always marching to their victory, ruthlessly eliminating opposition and all that.

That domination aspect is problematic from typing perspective, too. We'd be gathering the winners - or wannabe winners - in one type, even tho desire to win is not nearly exclusive to that type.

I find more comfort to acting ways which seem more natural to me, which is some kind of an amalgam of ENTP and ENTJ. Acting hostile might not be the best strategy in all competitive encounters, although it may help. The things I need, want and go after, mostly don't need me to be overbearing or anything like that. I'm not in the military.

I'd wish to be in favor of some social groups, tho I'm not trying hard in that and the amount I get effortlessly is good enough to be functional in them. I wish to have perserverance to go after the work & education I strive for, while maintaining the human touch in my life, in order to not become a relentless working machine. I wish to enjoy a rich life later, and a lot of hard work now, while keeping myself on the move. I need to learn how to go for the best job position I can.. I'll study all the ways, and execute the plans - repeatedly, if needed. None of that requires me to become some military leader type.

So, should they declare a "hostility is good" ENTJ manifesto, don't count on me for any support.

[INTJMom]

I've looked at some posts from our ENTJs, and I'm thinking that the dominating attitude so common with that type doesn't have to be that way. Some people propagate the idea of ENTJ always marching to their victory, ruthlessly eliminating opposition and all that.

That domination aspect is problematic from typing perspective, too. We'd be gathering the winners - or wannabe winners - in one type, even tho desire to win is not nearly exclusive to that type.

I find more comfort to acting ways which seem more natural to me, which is some kind of an amalgam of ENTP and ENTJ. Acting hostile might not be the best strategy in all competitive encounters, although it may help. The things I need, want and go after, mostly don't need me to be overbearing or anything like that. I'm not in the military.

I'd wish to be in favor of some social groups, tho I'm not trying hard in that and the amount I get effortlessly is good enough to be functional in them. I wish to have perserverance to go after the work & education I strive for, while maintaining the human touch in my life, in order to not become a relentless working machine. I wish to enjoy a rich life later, and a lot of hard work now, while keeping myself on the move. I need to learn how to go for the best job position I can.. I'll study all the ways, and execute the plans - repeatedly, if needed. None of that requires me to become some military leader type.

So, should they declare a "hostility is good" ENTJ manifesto, don't count on me for any support.
I don't think ENTJs need to be hostile to be ENTJs. I've only known one ENTJ and he garnered support through consensus. He wasn't hostile at all.

[Jennifer]

...So, should they declare a "hostility is good" ENTJ manifesto, don't count on me for any support.

I thought it was amusing you even felt the need to definitively state this without direct stimulus. :)

I might think it but would not have bothered unless someone (probably an ENTJ) was putting pressure on me or trying to dominate me directly.

Do you know how I am learning to deal with ENTJ verbal domination, at least where they have no actual power over me? I just shrug and ignore them, although i glean what I can from the information they give to help my internal models improve. Some of the ones here have thrown their weight around, but it's all smoke and mirrors.

[Santtu]

I thought it was amusing you even felt the need to definitively state this without direct stimulus. :)

Just glance at some Lucifer's writings, juggle a few thoughts around, and there you have it ;)

I'm just ahead of the game, no need for me to wait it become direct :D

[Jennifer]

Just glance at some Lucifer's writings, juggle a few thoughts around, and there you have it ;)

So you're saying the devil made you do it?

:devil:

[ajblaise]

I've known some ENTJ's. When they get more secure with themselves and their environment and mature, they tend to chill out a little and get less overbearing and annoying.

[INTJMom]

So you're saying the devil made you do it?

:devil:

:smile:

[Chris_in_Orbit]

My psychology teacher tested as an ENTJ. There are few people I respect more than her.

[YourLocalJesus]

Trust me, i'm a lazy bastard most of the time, too. ^^ I just think a lot in my lazy state, and then suddenly burst into action. I'm the kind of person who can do a weeks studies in five or six hours if I get to be alone and concentrate. I could never, ever maintain that speed for an entire day, but it means that I can spend more time doing things that I like, so it's a thing that have evolved over time.

[ptgatsby]

I've known some ENTJ's. When they get more secure with themselves and their environment and mature, they tend to chill out a little and get less overbearing and annoying.

Heh, "everyone grows up"... "Well, almost everyone".

"ENTJs are natural born leaders" - that is the stereotype, but it really means that they like "leading". The problem is, leadership isn't really about directing people around, which is the tendency for young "leaders" to take on. It takes time, development, skills and experience to become a good leader. Then ENTJs are 'less overbearing and annoying", IMO. When you feel the need to lead but don't know how, it causes a lot of strife...

[FDG]

Leadership is boring. It's a lot harder and tougher (albeit not necessarily smarter) to chase your dreams all by yourself.

[IlyaK1986]

If you're an ENTJ, that's a license to dominate. Someone's gonna do it eventually--and we're the ones cut out for it. You might not necessarily have to be completely overt about it, but so long as you get done the shit you need to get done, then the ends justify the means.

Human emotion should not be used for rational decision making, just like you shouldn't think about maximizing utility during sex but just do what feels right.

[Edahn]

Merged with ENTJ domination unneeded.

[ptgatsby]

Human emotion should not be used for rational decision making, just like you shouldn't think about maximizing utility during sex but just do what feels right.

I think most women would encourage maximum utility :D

(I also don't suggest applying "just getting things done" to sex)

[IlyaK1986]

I think most women would encourage maximum utility :D

(I also don't suggest applying "just getting things done" to sex)

Okay, fine, getting *people* done? Fine it was a bad analogy. Us ENTJs are bad with delivery. Just look at Hank Paulson!

[FDG]

I think most women would encourage maximum utility :D

(I also don't suggest applying "just getting things done" to sex)

Likely maximizing utility is exclusively reached by doing what feels right, taking into account the positive feedback created by female's responses to a male maximizing utility.

[ajblaise]

Chill out and maybe pick up a weed habit, that should help.

[ptgatsby]

Likely maximizing utility is exclusively reached by doing what feels right, taking into account the positive feedback created by female's responses to a male maximizing utility.

Absolutely. I'm positive that ENTJs let women come first.

(The comment also meant to be read as "I'm pretty sure guys just doing what feels good for them does not tend to be as effective".)

Also - ENTJs, humor is not a challenge. FYI.

(Well, ok, sometimes it is. Meh!)

[IlyaK1986]

Honestly, drop it. It was a bad analogy.

[htb]

I've gone through her entire blog (several days worth of reading) and wholeheartedly identify with the xNTJ female-who-knew-she-wanted-a-family mixed with experience-of-death-trauma-making-you-more-people-oriented-ness. That and she's posted on the fact that she's an ENTJ and seems familiar even with some of the nuances of the MBTI. I'm pretty sure if you read the exact link to the post I referenced, you'll see the Te dom.The post to which you linked was anecdotal and figurative only in a conventional, axiomatic sense; otherwise concrete, like an intelligent sensor's; and tawdry with details that permeate Trunk's weblog. And her writing -- is this less obvious to women? -- reads like a soap opera. Heavy on interpersonal operation, not so much on conceptual frameworks.

What you call a fact is a claim, even if it's earnest. Trunk believes she is a certain type. Are ENTJs, or types other than ESTPs, likely to be accused by critics of "expecting your looks and your chutzpah to carry the day"? Maybe. But neither NTs nor Js typically rely on tactics or impression. So taken with other available information, probably not. You may not be familiar with this observation (http://www.bestfittype.com/estp_entj.html) on confusing similarities between types. It immediately came to mind when the blog post, and Trunk's other material, didn't turn out as advertised.

[LadyJaye]

I can totally relate to this. If I can't have something, that only makes me want it more. I've gotten obsessive over things I didn't even really want, just because I wanted to 'win'.

My ENTJ friend does this - I've had to shake her loose from so many things that she just clamped down on like a pitbull because it suddenly became about sticking it to someone, that she couldn't allow them to "beat" her. Does the definition of being vanquished change situationally, or is there a general idea of what the parameters are?

I don't know about the other ENTJ's but when i'm critizised I act as if under serious fire, then the "sugar coating" goes straight off, bayonett on, charge!
I can't stand anyone challenging me directly. I will snap and tell the person what I think, wich can be pretty harsh. Then I will hear about it a long time afterwards how awful I am to argue with. Some people call this "steamrolling". Challenges disturbs my balance, and will be evened with the ground if possible. If not possible, I will eventually find a way to get rid of the problem even if I have to get a bloody PhD, write a few books and kill a few people in the process. No but seriously. ENTJ's are "born to lead", even if intellectually suited for this or not we need to be on top. If someone challenges our social position there will be war.

Now, I don't personally see opposing viewpoints as challenging my position. A challenge to me looks more like someone degrading my personal character. So, do most ENTJs see an alternate viewpoint as insubordination? Because I see a mixed set of rules - you want people around you that you can't push around, for the sake of respecting them, but you also don't like it when others won't acquiesce to your wishes?

Trust me, i'm a lazy bastard most of the time, too. ^^ I just think a lot in my lazy state, and then suddenly burst into action. I'm the kind of person who can do a weeks studies in five or six hours if I get to be alone and concentrate. I could never, ever maintain that speed for an entire day, but it means that I can spend more time doing things that I like, so it's a thing that have evolved over time.

Explain this laziness thing, because all of the NTJ's I have in my life are stricken with that, even to the point of telling me , " Oh I laid on the couch on my face for a week because I couldn't be bothered. " or " I would have called you last night but the phone was on the table and I didn't want to move." lol

[substitute]

Likely maximizing utility is exclusively reached by doing what feels right, taking into account the positive feedback created by female's responses to a male maximizing utility.

Gosh. You old smoothie! :wub:


(I was thinking the answer to the title question was "they grow up", but it didn't deserve a whole post)

[YourLocalJesus]

Now, I don't personally see opposing viewpoints as challenging my position. A challenge to me looks more like someone degrading my personal character. So, do most ENTJs see an alternate viewpoint as insubordination? Because I see a mixed set of rules - you want people around you that you can't push around, for the sake of respecting them, but you also don't like it when others won't acquiesce to your wishes?

Insubordination seems like an adequate name for it. And we don't want pushovers I think. Not as friends anyway. Maybe as underlings. But I do believe that many of us are kind of narrowed in on "logic" thinking, and it causes trouble when arguing a point with someone that doesn't seem to get it. And we don't want people around who can't see things our way at some level. I believe it is sheer arrogance :D


Explain this laziness thing, because all of the NTJ's I have in my life are stricken with that, even to the point of telling me , " Oh I laid on the couch on my face for a week because I couldn't be bothered. " or " I would have called you last night but the phone was on the table and I didn't want to move." lol

I believe that we're dormant about 60% of the time, and the rest we're really, really efficient. I get totally exhausted doing menial tasks, also. It's not because i'm some megalomaniac or narcissistic. It just kills my energy to do the dishes etc. There are loads of more important stuff to put energy into.
Same with doing stuff that is pointless. I just can't do it and feel good about it. Like christmas stuff, wrapping presents etc. And I totally hate flowers. Not growing ones, but bouquettes. They just die anyway, and leaves a bunch of trash. :doh:

[substitute]

yeah I totally have issues with pointlessness too. that's where my SP friends come in handy. They tell me "It's not pointless. The point is that you ENJOY it. By refusing to enjoy it, you MAKE it pointless."

Ha, good old SP's eh? :)

[YourLocalJesus]

I can't stand that way of viewing things, either :D

[substitute]

well, they drag me along and I'm like dude this is so pointless and they're like, quit being negative and just go with the moment, and I'm like but srsly, this is pointless... and they're like, c'mon, you'll love it once you do it.

And I'm like dude, she's just gonna rip the wrapping off anyway and throw it away. Logical argument, environmental issues, etc. And they're like yeah, but it's part of the Fun.

But... it can be momentarily gratifying if they DO pause to notice the wrapping and say what a good job you did of it. Momentarily. Before I start hating myself for being so shallow and easily sold :laugh:

[substitute]

actually I don't see disagreements or different points of view as challenges either... I see 'em as opportunities.

But then, possibly second only to ESTP, I'm the archetypal opportunist.

[YourLocalJesus]

Recognize that a lot. All of it.
Another weird thing I just thought of, speaking about presents. Why on earth would it be "the thought that counts" !?? :shock: It's what you bloody get that counts.

[substitute]

Sorry dude, you're on yer own with that one... it's the thought that counts. Totally.

With me, mainly cos there just isn't anything I want. Or at least, nothing I could live with someone having taken food out their kids' mouths to get for me. Et cetera. Just buy me a pint, that'll do me. Seven or eight of those and it's a very happy birthday :D

[Lucifer]

The problem with arguing with us is that, when you disagree with us, it is extremely personnal, because we only say things that we know are true (whether they are true or not is academic). So it goes beyond having a discussion onto deadly ground for other types. War as Jesus has often said.

I can only have really good discussions with NT's, so I can actually understand where they are coming from, because they can actually back up what they say.

What makes us good leaders is we can listen to reason and real points, but when it comes down to it we will fight to the death, and we'll be the first into the maw.

[YourLocalJesus]

Well said, Lucifer. You could be a storyteller.

[LadyJaye]

actually I don't see disagreements or different points of view as challenges either... I see 'em as opportunities.

But then, possibly second only to ESTP, I'm the archetypal opportunist.

HAHA! Same here. I see a thoughtfully laid out counterpoint as extremely interesting. Not that you'll be changing my mind, but it does breed opportunity for learning something worthwhile.

And I enjoy displays of intellect, if the arguments have depth and validity, meaning I'm not having to listen to someone droning on about things that have no relevance.

[LadyJaye]

Insubordination seems like an adequate name for it. And we don't want pushovers I think. Not as friends anyway. Maybe as underlings. But I do believe that many of us are kind of narrowed in on "logic" thinking, and it causes trouble when arguing a point with someone that doesn't seem to get it. And we don't want people around who can't see things our way at some level. I believe it is sheer arrogance:D

So do the women you date place within the underling or equal catagories?

[ajblaise]

The problem with NTJ's is that they can become irrational in their rigidity. They can rush to a incorrect conclusion based on insufficient or flawed evidence. But their saving grace is that they will at least be willing to discuss their beliefs, usually in a detached and consistent manner.

[YourLocalJesus]

Wouldn't date anyone I considered below me in any way, I think. Pysical appearance isn't that important, though. But somewhat.

[Kess]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

Hmm...? I noticed that when I'm more spiritual or engage in spiritual activities (praying, fasting, meditating, etc) I become more likeable and less threatening to others. Somehow, spirituality helps me become more empathetic, keeps me more grounded and focused on the really important things in life. Otherwise, I may be too focused on results and insensitive to the impact of my actions on others.

[Lucifer]

Well said, Lucifer. You could be a storyteller.

Not entirely sure how you ment it but, I'll think of it as a compliment.

[YourLocalJesus]

It was, it sounded kind of heroic ;) Especially the ending.

[Lucifer]

Jesus I had a revelation after Kess's post.

When I play hockey, my teamates love me. The goalie loves me because I will block shots, and if anyone touches him I'll let him know its not something he should do again. The players love me because I can come up with the big plays when there needed and because I never give up. They know I am always right behind them in any situation and I can make extremely unselfish plays.

This leads me to the revelation; I think our type is destined to be like this, the only problem is:

The other team is never going to like us. Never. We are extremely polarizing people, so either you are on the same team as us, or you aren't.

[YourLocalJesus]

Yeah... I see exactly what you mean by that. I can lose myself entirely in competitive sports. Especially the ones containing violence. It's not safe to let me loose in a game of paintball or such.. :doh:

And I know I have a problem with my opinions, I create enemies here and there. But I try to tone it down and only argue if it's important.

[LadyJaye]

And I know I have a problem with my opinions, I create enemies here and there. But I try to tone it down and only argue if it's important.

You confess this now?! I install you as ruler of the South Sandwich Islands, and this is what you tell me?

*sigh*

The Postmaster isn't going to like you at all.

[IlyaK1986]

Jesus I had a revelation after Kess's post.

When I play hockey, my teamates love me. The goalie loves me because I will block shots, and if anyone touches him I'll let him know its not something he should do again. The players love me because I can come up with the big plays when there needed and because I never give up. They know I am always right behind them in any situation and I can make extremely unselfish plays.

This leads me to the revelation; I think our type is destined to be like this, the only problem is:

The other team is never going to like us. Never. We are extremely polarizing people, so either you are on the same team as us, or you aren't.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Well put. You either love us or hate us.

[YourLocalJesus]

You confess this now?! I install you as ruler of the South Sandwich Islands, and this is what you tell me?

*sigh*

The Postmaster isn't going to like you at all.

LOL :doh::D:rofl1:

I don't want to be trapped on that piece of rock and ice!!! >.<

[Lucifer]

And I know I have a problem with my opinions, I create enemies here and there. But I try to tone it down and only argue if it's important.

Well I define important as: everything.

[LadyJaye]

Well put. You either love us or hate us.

I'd say there's a lot of both occurring simultaneously. I've always had that conflict going on with my ENTJs.

LOL :doh::D:rofl1:

I don't want to be trapped on that piece of rock and ice!!! >.<

Ingrate. Where's your sense of challenge?!

[sanveane]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

How do you view ENTJs?

Be magnanimous, that's when ENTJs are at their best! My Dad is ENTJ, so I have an appreciation for their style (hehe, I also know how to duck and weave the controlling stuff quite well.) I love the strong and generous ones.

What would you like to see more of from ENTJs?

In everyday life and for the people you care about it's great when an ENTJ clues you in on their processes a little. Why they are making a certain decision. It demonstrates awareness of other people, not just results or realizing your own grand plan. Be a little more collaborative even if you feel it's beneath you, others appreciate it. Fight the urge to dominate absolutely everything. For some your presence in the room is often forceful enough. Those things will soften the way an ENTJ comes off to others...


What could you do without?

Could do without everything having to escalate to full scale battle! Pick your battles if you can...

[FDG]

I got why I dislike lucifer so much. It's because I'm God QED

[ThatGirl]

Be magnanimous, that's when ENTJs are at their best! My Dad is ENTJ, so I have an appreciation for their style (hehe, I also know how to duck and weave the controlling stuff quite well.) I love the strong and generous ones.



In everyday life and for the people you care about it's great when an ENTJ clues you in on their processes a little. Why they are making a certain decision. It demonstrates awareness of other people, not just results or realizing your own grand plan. Be a little more collaborative even if you feel it's beneath you, others appreciate it. Fight the urge to dominate absolutely everything. For some your presence in the room is often forceful enough. Those things will soften the way an ENTJ comes off to others...




Could do without everything having to escalate to full scale battle! Pick your battles if you can...


I get what you are saying, but I dont think that ENTJs do what they do because they think they are beneath everyone. I believe that insecurity belongs to the other. But keeping with the NTs in general, wouldn't having to stop and explain all the time be counterproductive to whatever goal is in mind. It is like the world has to give permission first, thats frusterating. People often respond with deffiance that wouldn't normally exist if they werent feeling intimidated? So the very presence causes conflict?

[sanveane]

I get what you are saying, but I dont think that ENTJs do what they do because they think they are beneath everyone. I believe that insecurity belongs to the other. But keeping with the NTs in general, wouldn't having to stop and explain all the time be counterproductive to whatever goal is in mind. It is like the world has to give permission first, thats frusterating. People often respond with deffiance that wouldn't normally exist if they werent feeling intimidated? So the very presence causes conflict?


Sorry, I should have put an lol after the "beneath you" crack, I was thinking of my Dad who is prone to that. (It doesn't bother me coming from him.)

I agree that having to stop and explain things is somewhat counterproductive to the ENTJ achieving their goals, but you were asking what would make an ENTJ less threatening and better liked by others. ENTJs can be very efficient and task focused, including people in that focus is required in order to be better liked. I'm not saying to ask for permission, just to let people in on what you've decided sometimes and perhaps what your process was behind that if possible. Even doing that after the fact is helpful.

[entropie]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

How do you view ENTJs?

What would you like to see more of from ENTJs?

What could you do without?


The thing is, I never saw and still dont see ENTJ as a threat or less-likeable.

Those things have come through the media :)

[YourLocalJesus]

Would an ENTJ still be an ENTJ if he changed his offensive habits and became more laid back? I think that'd make for an INTP, as I think they and ENTP's are normally the most laid back and cool people out there.

[Santtu]

Would an ENTJ still be an ENTJ if he changed his offensive habits and became more laid back? I think that'd make for an INTP, as I think they and ENTP's are normally the most laid back and cool people out there.
I guess this has been talked over through and through, ENTJ with sugarcoating can approach any type in how laid back they are, and easy going. At least for me, I'm seeing a window in my situation for alternate behavior; I know I can avoid burnout, for example, by really tuning in to the feelings of the moment and really being laid back. If I've set up the time for it and I know I can do it, I can let myself go and enjoy it. Should the prequisites for such opportunity go away, I would start acting in a determined manner.

There are many kinds of chores to do. Some of them can be done with apparent determination, others need pleasing someone. For example, making everyone enjoy in a social situation. I love it, it's fun - it's just that I would not get into a loop of always being the funny man and neglecting my duties.

I think an effective ENTJ can act situationally to meet the needs of the situation, so that the grand plan is rock hard, while the appearance of the ENTJ might not be.

Balanced ENTJ can actually seem and feel pleasant while they're doing their duties, for the benefit of everyone around them, and themselves, too.

[Rachelinpa]

How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?


Smile more, snark less.

[YourLocalJesus]

I guess this has been talked over through and through, ENTJ with sugarcoating can approach any type in how laid back they are, and easy going. At least for me, I'm seeing a window in my situation for alternate behavior; I know I can avoid burnout, for example, by really tuning in to the feelings of the moment and really being laid back. If I've set up the time for it and I know I can do it, I can let myself go and enjoy it. Should the prequisites for such opportunity go away, I would start acting in a determined manner.

There are many kinds of chores to do. Some of them can be done with apparent determination, others need pleasing someone. For example, making everyone enjoy in a social situation. I love it, it's fun - it's just that I would not get into a loop of always being the funny man and neglecting my duties.

I think an effective ENTJ can act situationally to meet the needs of the situation, so that the grand plan is rock hard, while the appearance of the ENTJ might not be.

Balanced ENTJ can actually seem and feel pleasant while they're doing their duties, for the benefit of everyone around them, and themselves, too.

I hear ya. If there are stuff that needs doing, and stuff not going the way they are supposed to... How do you let go and "enjoy" the moment ?
I think everyone can relax on a beach with a drink, except maybe people with some weird skin disease. Buy anyway!
Are you saying that you somehow can relax even though you'd rather be doing something about it, just to not be a pain in the ass for others? :D

[Santtu]

I hear ya. If there are stuff that needs doing, and stuff not going the way they are supposed to... How do you let go and "enjoy" the moment ?
I don't.

I think everyone can relax on a beach with a drink, except maybe people with some weird skin disease. Buy anyway!
Are you saying that you somehow can relax even though you'd rather be doing something about it, just to not be a pain in the ass for others? :D
No, rather I can output an acceptable image, if the situation calls for it. If it doesn't call for it, I start doing something about it.

So in my world view, pleasant, carefree situations are windows in time, made such by organizing everything around them well enough, so you can let yourself go for those moments. The carefree time can be relatively long, or something you don't have at all, depending on what you have and what you need.

[YourLocalJesus]

Sounds reasonable. :)

[Lateralus]

So in my world view, pleasant, carefree situations are windows in time, made such by organizing everything around them well enough, so you can let yourself go for those moments. The carefree time can be relatively long, or something you don't have at all, depending on what you have and what you need.
+1

[Kess]

Be magnanimous, that's when ENTJs are at their best! My Dad is ENTJ, so I have an appreciation for their style (hehe, I also know how to duck and weave the controlling stuff quite well.) I love the strong and generous ones.



In everyday life and for the people you care about it's great when an ENTJ clues you in on their processes a little. Why they are making a certain decision. It demonstrates awareness of other people, not just results or realizing your own grand plan. Be a little more collaborative even if you feel it's beneath you, others appreciate it. Fight the urge to dominate absolutely everything. For some your presence in the room is often forceful enough. Those things will soften the way an ENTJ comes off to others...




Could do without everything having to escalate to full scale battle! Pick your battles if you can...


Great advice. Maybe I should have more INFJ friends with insight.

[substitute]

ENTJ at their best: the merciful, benevolent overlord. Generous in victory, humble in defeat; firm but reasonable, feared by enemies and loved by subjects - that's the kind of leader people will march into battles for :)

An overly controlling, bad tempered, insensitive prick will find his soldiers half-hearted at best.

So said the ENTJ I was very close to.

[substitute]

HAHA! Same here. I see a thoughtfully laid out counterpoint as extremely interesting. Not that you'll be changing my mind, but it does breed opportunity for learning something worthwhile.

And I enjoy displays of intellect, if the arguments have depth and validity, meaning I'm not having to listen to someone droning on about things that have no relevance.

Oh. I wasn't quite thinking anything as benevolent or constructive as that. I was thinking more along the lines that if you can listen to somebody disagreeing with you in depth then you can learn a lot about the way they tick. If you can just accept that you're not going to change their minds (people very seldom change their minds) and just take it as an opportunity to learn how they tick, and don't take it personally, you can gather a lot of info about that person that you can use in future strategies. Makes it easier to persuade them of something in future, should the need arise :D

Knowledge is power, as they say. shut someone up and don't give them the chance to explain or inhibit them from speaking their mind, and you're turning down an opportunity for a lotta knowledge and therefore lessening your power. :machiavelli: