Mental illnesses and type.

[Spectre of the spam]

What mental illnesses are more likely to occure in types? I've no real reason for asking other than to simply know.

[Orangey]

Well I'm pretty sure my grandfather is some sort of wacked-out INTP, and he is a paranoid schizophrenic.

[strawberryfields]

It's a tough one to call, since mental illness can influence personality so it's difficult to tell which comes first, methinks. I've found INTJ's I've known very prone to depression - I think it's partly thinking about things deeply and often holding themselves to high standards, and perhaps being fairly insular people often anyway so not finding solace in others. Females are much more prone to get depressed, part of that is physiological but I think an element there is that you get a lot more female F's and I imagine F's are more prone to depression.

I read an article once which said INFP's are the most likely to get depressed. When I was studying psychology though I remember reading a study which suggested S's are more likely than N's to get clinical depression, which surprised me.

[Didums]

Austism is usually an INTJ/P thing.

[edcoaching]

Austism is usually an INTJ/P thing.

Actually the studies on autistic children show ISTJ, as do the patterns of behavior as they often fixate on physical objects...

It seems like any type can end up with about any mental illness. However, misdiagnosis is more likely in certain types. Like, is an EP child just being an EP or is it ADD? Is an IP withdrawn and depressed or happy as a clam alone all the time? etc.

[Spectre of the spam]

[QUOTE=strawberryfields;345411]It's a tough one to call, since mental illness can influence personality so it's difficult to tell which comes first, methinks. I've found INTJ's I've known very prone to depression - I think it's partly thinking about things deeply and often holding themselves to high standards, and perhaps being fairly insular people often anyway so not finding solace in others. Females are much more prone to get depressed, part of that is physiological but I think an element there is that you get a lot more female F's and I imagine F's are more prone to depression.

I read an article once which said INFP's are the most likely to get depressed. When I was studying psychology though I remember reading a study which suggested S's are more likely than N's to get clinical depression, which surprised me.[/QUOTE/]

As an ISTJ I can testify that S's and I's are probably more likely to get depressed. When I was younger I was nearly constantly depressed. The only thing that kept me from suicide was cowardice and no access to a painless means of death. That extreme depression has faded over time I think, although i'm still pretty pessimistic. Heck, sometimes I think about offing myself for fun (not seriously, just to imagine the reactions of others).

I could be wrong about the depression fading though. I might be so apathetic and calloused I just don't notice it.....But that's another topic.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Actually there is a website with this....

DELIVERY

INFP personality type (http://homeopathy.healthspace.eu/types/INFP.php)

i have it on the INFP page but theres one for each type...interesting stuff though i don't pretend to understand half of it.

[Usehername]

I read an article once which said INFP's are the most likely to get depressed. When I was studying psychology though I remember reading a study which suggested S's are more likely than N's to get clinical depression, which surprised me.
MBTI isn't valid by any DSM-IV standard. I'm curious as to what "study" you're referring to? (Scare quotes intended to reflect that fact that it probably wasn't from an academic journal, not saying it wasn't a study.)


As an ISTJ I can testify that S's and I's are probably more likely to get depressed. When I was younger I was nearly constantly depressed. The only thing that kept me from suicide was cowardice and no access to a painless means of death. That extreme depression has faded over time I think, although i'm still pretty pessimistic. Heck, sometimes I think about offing myself for fun (not seriously, just to imagine the reactions of others).

I could be wrong about the depression fading though. I might be so apathetic and calloused I just don't notice it.....But that's another topic.

It's likely your brain was still growing; it's unfortunately common to get really depressed teens/young adults until their brain settles into full adulthood.

[Spectre of the spam]

Actually there is a website with this....

DELIVERY

INFP personality type (http://homeopathy.healthspace.eu/types/INFP.php)

i have it on the INFP page but theres one for each type...interesting stuff though i don't pretend to understand half of it.

That was helpful and confusing at the same time. :huh:

[Spectre of the spam]

MBTI isn't valid by any DSM-IV standard. I'm curious as to what "study" you're referring to? (Scare quotes intended to reflect that fact that it probably wasn't from an academic journal, not saying it wasn't a study.)




It's likely your brain was still growing; it's unfortunately common to get really depressed teens/young adults until their brain settles into full adulthood.

I may not be a mainstream ISTJ. I feel a little more than my type should. Not enough to make me another type, but just a little to much. I really wish I didn't. I want to be normal or different, not this sickening in between area.

[Uberfuhrer]

Schizoid and schizotypal personality disorders correlate with INTP and INTJ. Both "personality disorders" have also been speculated to be mild forms of schizophrenia.

[disregard]

PTypes - Correspondence of PTypes, Keirsey, Enneagram, Psychiatric, and Astrological Types (http://www.ptypes.com/correspondence.html)

[Uberfuhrer]

PTypes - Correspondence of PTypes, Keirsey, Enneagram, Psychiatric, and Astrological Types (http://www.ptypes.com/correspondence.html)

I disagree with the astrological types. They are not grouped coherently. The site is therefore of little relevance.

[disregard]

I didn't say it was an accurate set of correlations, just supplied it.

It's all bullshit. Type, astrology, enneagram. Pick your fantasy and apply as needed.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Well I don't find MBTI to be "bullshit" simply because it is made in a fool proof fashion. Gives a spectrum with two clearly opposing preferences and then maps you on it.. I don't even see how something like that could be considered bs.

Deciding that your four letter combination is you and deciding to conform to its descriptions totally -is- BS though.

[placebo]

According to here
Oldham's Personality Styles (http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/oldham.htm)


Antisocial
ESTP, ISTP

Sadistic
ESTJ, ENTJ

Cyclothymic
ESFP, ISFP

Obsessive-Compulsive
ISTJ, ESTJ

Dependent
ISFJ, ESFJ

Histrionic
ESFJ, ESFP

Schizotypal
INTJ, INTP

Compensatory Narcissistic
ENFP, ENTP

Passive-Agressive
ISTP, INTP

Borderline
ESFP, ENFP

Narcissistic
ESTP, ENTP

Self-Defeating (Masochistic)
ESFJ, ENFJ

Avoidant
INFJ, INFP

Depressive
ISTJ, ISFJ

Schizoid
ISTJ, INTJ

Paranoid
ENTJ, INTJ


Research it, take what you want from it

[Cindy]

It's a tough one to call, since mental illness can influence personality so it's difficult to tell which comes first, methinks. I've found INTJ's I've known very prone to depression - I think it's partly thinking about things deeply and often holding themselves to high standards, and perhaps being fairly insular people often anyway so not finding solace in others. Females are much more prone to get depressed, part of that is physiological but I think an element there is that you get a lot more female F's and I imagine F's are more prone to depression.

I read an article once which said INFP's are the most likely to get depressed. When I was studying psychology though I remember reading a study which suggested S's are more likely than N's to get clinical depression, which surprised me.

Strawberryfields that makes sense to me. I think anger has a lot to do with depression. From what I've read on the topic of depression I believe that too much internalised anger = depression. I think that women probably are more prone to depression because they traditionally have issues with expressing anger (myself not included lol). Like you say INTJ's are insular/typically keeping their feelings inside and I think anger is a pretty nasty emotion to internalise. Hence I think introverts would be more prone to depression.

Then again us INTJ's are a tough bunch, we must have a large emotional threshold. It would have to be something major to push our limits. At the end of the day if an INTJ's life was to blow up in their faces we would probably be best equipped to take the necessary steps to get back on track. I'm not sure an F has the same amount of will power to quell their emotions, remove themselves from what they are feeling and take a more objective stance in order to find their way back onto their path. I'm talking purely about depression here of course, I don't think you could head off something like schitzophrenia or a major depressive episode. Aren't mental illnesses like these chemical related? I don't see how type could influence the chemicals in our brains.

Are S's not as likely to pick up the patterns of what leads to depression than N's are I wonder.

[Bella]

Strawberryfields that makes sense to me. I think anger has a lot to do with depression. From what I've read on the topic of depression I believe that too much internalised anger = depression. I think that women probably are more prone to depression because they traditionally have issues with expressing anger (myself not included lol). Like you say INTJ's are insular/typically keeping their feelings inside and I think anger is a pretty nasty emotion to internalise. Hence I think introverts would be more prone to depression.

Then again us INTJ's are a tough bunch, we must have a large emotional threshold. It would have to be something major to push our limits. At the end of the day if an INTJ's life was to blow up in their faces we would probably have the skills to take the necessary steps to get back on track. I'm not sure an F has the same amount of will power to quell their emotions, remove themselves from what they are feeling and take a more objective stance in order to find there way back onto their path.

Are S's not as likely to pick up the patterns of what leads to depression than N's are I wonder.

You're right about depression and anger. I once read a description of depression as 'anger turned inward'. That makes sense.

[wildcat]

Actually the studies on autistic children show ISTJ, as do the patterns of behavior as they often fixate on physical objects...

It seems like any type can end up with about any mental illness. However, misdiagnosis is more likely in certain types. Like, is an EP child just being an EP or is it ADD? Is an IP withdrawn and depressed or happy as a clam alone all the time? etc.
The ISTJ is the safety measure only.
The clinical observation is plain wrong.

A choice is not the end.
It is the beginning.

[Gabe]

Actually the studies on autistic children show ISTJ, as do the patterns of behavior as they often fixate on physical objects...

It seems like any type can end up with about any mental illness. However, misdiagnosis is more likely in certain types. Like, is an EP child just being an EP or is it ADD? Is an IP withdrawn and depressed or happy as a clam alone all the time? etc.

Well, because of what they consider ADD, just about every EP has ADD. I think we should invent a pathologization for ESTJ, maybe that would get people to stop seeing something wrong with EPs. The diagnosis was made for the purpose of singling out some types, so I've always seen it as a big scam.

[edcoaching]

Well, because of what they consider ADD, just about every EP has ADD. I think we should invent a pathologization for ESTJ.

An idea worthy of pursuit...something to do with the consequences of sticking to plans with no notice of what's really happening to goals or people??? Like, say, invading Baghdad with no regard for water/utilities/food for civilians or protection of national treasures...

[Gabe]

oh, yes, the american shadow.

maybe heads of state who resign themselves to the prisoners-dilemma mentality should be diagnosed with "Strangelove".

[INTJMom]

What mental illnesses are more likely to occur in types? I've no real reason for asking other than to simply know.
Is it really possible to know that? That would have to be an exhaustive project and you'd have to be sure you have the correct MBTI type for someone who is imbalanced!
I don't think I would readily trust someone who said they could distinguish such a thing. Though I will say this. I think OCD can look like INTJ, and paranoid schizophrenia can look like INTP but I don't for one second believe they're the same thing.

[Little Linguist]

Here's a question: Do people with dissociative disorder literally have different personality types in them? For example, is one type like INTP and another type ISTJ and another type ESFP and another type INFJ, or how does that work?

[strawberryfields]

Usehername - I think I might be missing your point about the Myers-Briggs not being validated by the DSM-IV standard, and I think suggesting that makes this study unreliable. You can take people with clinical depression as diagnosed using DSM-IV standard, and then type them according to the Myers-Briggs and see what personality type there is proportionately the highest incidence of depression in? I can't be bothered tracking the article down, it was a study on the Sciencedirect website, and was taken from an academic journal. I appreciate MBTI is subjective but it's hardly like every scientific study uses entirely objective criteria; loads of psychology is about non-clearly defined theories and ideas.

[katerp]

There's a similar topic on another forum, and this is what I posted there:

I'm actually writing a research paper for a psychology class now and in my review of past research I've found some studies on correlations between mental illness and MBTI. All of these studies were published in professional, peer-reviewed journals:


*A 1994 found that those most at risk for suicidal ideation and behaviors are IxxP females, ISFx males, INxP males, and ENxJ males (BTW, their hypothesis was that INFPs would be most at risk for suicide)

*A 1996 study found that depressed patients were more comonly ISxPs, biploar patients were more commonly INxPs, and social phobia patients were usually IxxJ

*A 1997 study found that ITs are overly rigid, ISs are obsessive, and IFs are depressive

*A 1999 study found that bipolar patients are signficantly more extroverted and less judging than unipolar depressed patients (I've also seen a bunch of studies using the Big Five Personality Model that also found bipolar patients are more extroverted than depressed patients)

*A 2002 study found that depression patients were significantly more introverted, sensing, feeling, and perceiving; the overrepresented types are ISFPs and INFPs; and male ISFPs in particular are the most overrepresented in depression

[placebo]

There's a similar topic on another forum, and this is what I posted there:

I'm actually writing a research paper for a psychology class now and in my review of past research I've found some studies on correlations between mental illness and MBTI. All of these studies were published in professional, peer-reviewed journals:


*A 1994 found that those most at risk for suicidal ideation and behaviors are IxxP females, ISFx males, INxP males, and ENxJ males (BTW, their hypothesis was that INFPs would be most at risk for suicide)

*A 1996 study found that depressed patients were more comonly ISxPs, biploar patients were more commonly INxPs, and social phobia patients were usually IxxJ

*A 1997 study found that ITs are overly rigid, ISs are obsessive, and IFs are depressive

*A 1999 study found that bipolar patients are signficantly more extroverted and less judging than unipolar depressed patients (I've also seen a bunch of studies using the Big Five Personality Model that also found bipolar patients are more extroverted than depressed patients)

*A 2002 study found that depression patients were significantly more introverted, sensing, feeling, and perceiving; the overrepresented types are ISFPs and INFPs; and male ISFPs in particular are the most overrepresented in depression

Aren't the 2nd and 4th points contradicting each other?
Bipolar patients are commonly INxPs , and then bipolar patients are significantly more extroverted?

[iwakar]

What mental illnesses are more likely to occure in types? I've no real reason for asking other than to simply know.

I would like to know as well.

Speaking as an INFJ, I have battled depression sometimes tinged with suicidal periods and feelings of purposelessness/worthlessness all my life. The only things I've seemed to've outgrown were panic attacks and an eating disorder in my youth. Other than those aberrations, it seems suspiciously cyclical... every 7-10 years or so? Of course, this could be completely unrelated to type and only related to me.

Or, like most things, it could be the unfortunate combination of circumstances and inclinations.

[INTJMom]

I would like to know as well.

Speaking as an INFJ, I have battled depression sometimes tinged with suicidal periods and feelings of purposelessness/worthlessness all my life. The only things I've seemed to've outgrown were panic attacks and an eating disorder in my youth. Other than those aberrations, it seems suspiciously cyclical... every 7-10 years or so? Of course, this could be completely unrelated to type and only related to me.

Or, like most things, it could be the unfortunate combination of circumstances and inclinations.
I have heard about the cyclical thing before and it was about 25 years ago so I no longer remember specifics, but I think you're right in thinking it has less to do with type, and more to do with inclinations.

[edcoaching]

One noticeable thing if you look at the studies is...depression seems to run in personalities that are quite different from the ESTJ cultural norms. Duh. It's hard to stay upbeat when day in, day out you're being told you don't really look at things the right way...

[Haphazard]

Just out of curiosity:

Has anybody met a depressed ESTJ?

[entropie]

You probably find alot at the moment, but you werent refering to financial depression, were you ? :)

[INTJMom]

Just out of curiosity:

Has anybody met a depressed ESTJ?
Nah. They're too busy to be depressed.

[bluemonday]

Nah. They're too busy to be depressed.
QFT + LOL

[Haphazard]

Well, this seems to directly oppose what was said in another thread about T types... About them being unhappy, or something.

ESTJ is dominant T. How does this work?

[INTJMom]

Well, this seems to directly oppose what was said in another thread about T types... About them being unhappy, or something.

ESTJ is dominant T. How does this work?
How depressed can you get when instead of pondering the meaning of your existence, you're pondering whether to plant rhododendrons or begonias?

[Haphazard]

How depressed can you get when instead of pondering the meaning of your existence, you're pondering whether to plant rhododendrons or begonias?

According to these people, (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/other-psychology-topics/9039-strong-thinkers-prone-being-risk-themselves.html) quite unhappy.

Then again, I get depressed just fathoming how to pronounced 'rhododendrons'.

[INTJMom]

According to these people, (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/other-psychology-topics/9039-strong-thinkers-prone-being-risk-themselves.html) quite unhappy.

Then again, I get depressed just fathoming how to pronounced 'rhododendrons'.

First of all, that is a thread on an forum full of opinions.
Please don't go around quoting people's opinions on forums as authoritative.
I did not see any authorities quoted. If there are some, go ahead and post them here.
Secondly, I can't see how you came to your conclusion. Were there any ESTJs mentioned or taking part in that conversation? Post it here if there is.
Not all T types are prone to depression.

[Haphazard]

First of all, that is a thread on an forum full of opinions.
Please don't go around quoting people's opinions on forums as authoritative.
I did not see any authorities quoted. If there are some, go ahead and post them here.
Secondly, I can't see how you came to your conclusion. Were there any ESTJs mentioned or taking part in that conversation? Post it here if there is.
Not all T types are prone to depression.

That was not what I was implying.

Mostly, I was wondering why the people there thought that Ts were prone to depression while most here say they are not.

The blatant contradiction is what interests me -- mostly that so many people there insist that F is necessary to be happy, while apparent studies show that Fs are more likely to be unhappy.

[INTJMom]

That was not what I was implying.

Mostly, I was wondering why the people there thought that Ts were prone to depression while most here say they are not.

The blatant contradiction is what interests me -- mostly that so many people there insist that F is necessary to be happy, while apparent studies show that Fs are more likely to be unhappy.
It depends on what kind of a T.
STs are different than NTs.

[Haphazard]

It depends on what kind of a T.
STs are different than NTs.

Then why did they generalize to all Ts? :huh:

And even so, if statistics show more Fs, does that mean that both NFs and SFs are similar in this way, while NTs and STs are not?

[INTJMom]

Then why did they generalize to all Ts? :huh:

And even so, if statistics show more Fs, does that mean that both NFs and SFs are similar in this way, while NTs and STs are not?
Show me the statistics.

[Haphazard]

Show me the statistics.

Uhh, the ones previously mentioned in this thread?

[katerp]

Aren't the 2nd and 4th points contradicting each other?
Bipolar patients are commonly INxPs , and then bipolar patients are significantly more extroverted?

Well, both types of patients may score on the introverted side of the scale but bipolar patients may just tend to score closer to the middle while depressed patients tend to score nearer the introverted extreme.

[mlittrell]

schizophrenia is most relevant to introverts. bipolar seems to be a split between the first two functions but take that with a grain of salt.

[INTJMom]

There's a similar topic on another forum, and this is what I posted there:

I'm actually writing a research paper for a psychology class now and in my review of past research I've found some studies on correlations between mental illness and MBTI. All of these studies were published in professional, peer-reviewed journals:


*A 1994 found that those most at risk for suicidal ideation and behaviors are IxxP females, ISFx males, INxP males, and ENxJ males (BTW, their hypothesis was that INFPs would be most at risk for suicide)

*A 1996 study found that depressed patients were more comonly ISxPs, biploar patients were more commonly INxPs, and social phobia patients were usually IxxJ

*A 1997 study found that ITs are overly rigid, ISs are obsessive, and IFs are depressive

*A 1999 study found that bipolar patients are signficantly more extroverted and less judging than unipolar depressed patients (I've also seen a bunch of studies using the Big Five Personality Model that also found bipolar patients are more extroverted than depressed patients)

*A 2002 study found that depression patients were significantly more introverted, sensing, feeling, and perceiving; the overrepresented types are ISFPs and INFPs; and male ISFPs in particular are the most overrepresented in depression

To Haphazard -
Nowhere here does it say Ts are prone to depression.
You really must stop making broad statements that have no basis in fact.
I know you're an INTJ and all, but we're all told that at one point or another,
and today it's your turn.

[Haphazard]

To Haphazard -
Nowhere here does it say Ts are prone to depression.
You really must stop making broad statements that have no basis in fact.
I know you're an INTJ and all, but we're all told that at one point or another,
and today it's your turn.


WHAT I WAS WONDERING.

Was why it seemed like in that one thread that I cited, people seemed to link T with depression, while nothing here does that. Why is it that the perception of these people is so different than what is shown here?

That's all I'm asking, and that's all I've been asking. Am I not allowed to wonder why people have the opinions that they do when they don't appear to have basis in reality?

Jeez.

[INTJMom]

WHAT I WAS WONDERING.

Was why it seemed like in that one thread that I cited, people seemed to link T with depression, while nothing here does that. Why is it that the perception of these people is so different than what is shown here?

That's all I'm asking. Am I not allowed to wonder why people have the opinions that they do, when they don't appear to have basis in reality?

Jeez.
Sorry. :hug:
Perhaps you should go ask the people in that other thread.
I would have to go read and study every post in order to answer your question and, though I'd like to, I don't have the time right now. I did not read the thread closely. My impression was that the thread was about one specific person or a couple, and the depressed person was an INTx, but as I said, I only skimmed it.
Maybe I can read it through later on tonight.

[placebo]

Well, both types of patients may score on the introverted side of the scale but bipolar patients may just tend to score closer to the middle while depressed patients tend to score nearer the introverted extreme.


That makes sense, thanks

[INTJMom]

Was why it seemed like in that one thread that I cited, people seemed to link T with depression, while nothing here does that. Why is it that the perception of these people is so different than what is shown here?
post 1
The question is
Are strong "Thinkers" prone to being a risk to themselves?
Emotionally and mentally speaking, that is.
post 2
In general, I don't think so. But STJs seem rather defenseless against strong emotions. They can do serious damage in short order.
(Notice the OP is not about depression. We have no way of knowing what he means concerning STJs but it sounds as though he is thinking of a personal experience. We don't have the definition of "strong emotions" That probably includes anger.)
post 3
On one site I read that ISTJs are prone to depression and I could see that.
(An unquoted, unknown source says ISTJs are prone to depression.)
post 9
If they haven't developed much of a feeling function then I would say yes.
(This might apply to a small number of people who are not maturing normally.)
post 11
A healthy strong thinker will acknowledge their feeling side. An unhealthy strong thinker won't. If you don't acknowledge your feeling side, you'll definitely be a risk to yourself.
(Ok answer but we still don't know the definition of "risk to yourself".)
posts 17 & 18
(a tangent into repressed memories)
post 24
I don't know if you know what to do with them or not, I just notice the results. Confusion, depression and/or rage.
(FINALLY the answer to post # 2. An STJ who experienced those feelings. Not enough information though to come to an Ni conclusion about anything.)
post 25
There is actually quite a lot of that, yes.
(written by an ISTJ, she acknowledges the accuracy, in her own experience, of the statement in post #2)
post 28
The effects of lack of feeling can express themselves in a variety of ways. This is how I am coming at it though:

Say you group people into four categories (like Jung): Thinkers, Feelers, Intuitives, and Sensors. I would say that the Feelers are the most likely to have a satisfying life. What is more is that each of the other three groups will increase their satisfaction if they can sufficiently develop their feeling function. This is because Man is inherently a social creature. People in general get a lot of satisfaction from their relationships and from living according to their values. Feelers are the most aware of this, and that is why I'd say they are most likely to have a satisfying life.

The flip side is that someone without a developed feeling function will become increasingly more dissatisfied with their life over time. This can manifest in a variety of ways anger, depression, addiction, materialism, etc.... However it manifests itself though, it won't be healthy. Overall I think it's important for everyone to develop their feeling function.
(A response to a question about the lack of developed feeling function, i.e. strong thinkers, as in the OP. Notice that this post is not about, nor was the OP about depression only, but rather people being a "risk" to themselves. Also this post is about the feeling function - Fe and Fi.)
post 31
...
Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/other-psychology-topics/9039-strong-thinkers-prone-being-risk-themselves.html#post339604)
The flip side is that someone without a developed feeling function will become increasingly more dissatisfied with their life over time. This can manifest in a variety of ways anger, depression, addiction, materialism, etc....


I think this is at least as true for someone with an overly developed Feeling function. The only difference is, they don't even know why they are so dissatisfied ;)
(A response to post 28 suggesting that over developed feeling can be just as problematic as underdeveloped feeling.)
post 32
(discusses job satisfaction is higher for F type careers)
post 34
I don't think F types are more likely to lead a more satisfying life.

According to Stoicism and Buddhism too I guess, T's would be more likely to lead the optimal life. It's about separating and detaching ourselves from desire. Freedom from negative emotion by the embracement of reason. I agree with some of Stoicism.
(Disagrees with the premise of post 28. Says Ts have a more satisfying life.)
post 36
...
The thing about a strong T preference is that it does distance you from people and relationships which can act as a stabilizing point preventing someone from going out of balance. Without this equalizer where emotion is sorta shared and discharged among a group of people or between a couple close friends frequently, there is a situation where the T doesn't necessarily have what he needs to ground out that energy.
(Discusses the possible reasons why a strong T thinker could become a risk to themselves.)
post 37
(Suggests that trying to develop other traits unnaturally is counterproductive and won't work.)
post 38
I am saying that everyone should have a developed feeling function. I'm not saying that it should guide every decision.
(Counters post 37)
************************************************** ***********************
No one conclusively proved that Ts are more prone to depression than Fs.
There were no studies or statistics discussed.
All there was was the personal experience of 2 people that STJ might be prone to be a "risk", and one ISTJ who said she read one site that said that ISTJs are prone to depression.
I personally know 2 ISTJs and neither have ever been depressed in the 20 years I have known them.

Then you came over here and asked if anyone had ever met a depressed ESTJ and I answered you telling you no, and that it is very unlikely to happen. That was based on my 18 yeras worth of personal study of MBTT. Then bluemonday agreed with me.

Then you came and said "Well, this seems to directly oppose what was said in another thread about T types... About them being unhappy, or something.

ESTJ is dominant T. How does this work? "

Your first question was about depression but your follow up was merely about unhappiness which is not the same thing.
You followed up again with citing the other thread saying that they concluded that Ts are unhappy.
I stated that not all T types are prone to depression.
You follow up by saying that the other thread said that all Ts are prone to depression.

Look, I can see you're young. It's not your fault, but if you're going to allow what you read to upset you, you should read it more carefully first and make sure you understand fully what is being said. In my opinion, no one in the other thread made a convincing case that all Ts are prone to depression. The thread wasn't even about depression, and besides unhappiness and depression are not the same thing. Unhappiness can be fixed by a visit to an amusement park, depression cannot.

You say that the other thread generalized that all Ts are prone to depression, but it does not. The only type that was stated to be prone to depression was ISTJ, and I find that hard to believe, as I said a little bit ago.

But here's the thing. Over in the other thread, you commented that the thread was making you depressed. Why? And don't answer me in typical INTJ fashion. I want at least 5 sentences :newwink: explaining why in the world it matters to you that ESTJs - or all Ts - might be prone to depression (which they are not). Okay?:)

[Haphazard]

What do you have against the typical INTJ response?

I believe they mentioned a lot of dissatisfaction in their lives? I was under the impression that this had to do with depression.

[INTJMom]

What do you have against the typical INTJ response?

I believe they mentioned a lot of dissatisfaction in their lives? I was under the impression that this had to do with depression.
:smile: I'm sorry. You misunderstood me.
Typically, INTJs are very concise and don't use very many words,
as you see in your posts in this and the other thread.
I was asking you to not to do that.
Don't make me guess at what's bothering you.

Why do you refer to INTJs as "they"?
Aren't you an INTJ?
I am also an INTJ.

Would you please answer my question?
In at least 6 complete sentences?

[Haphazard]

:smile: I'm sorry. You misunderstood me.
Typically, INTJs are very concise and don't use very many words,
as you see in your posts in this and the other thread.
I was asking you to not to do that.
Don't make me guess at what's bothering you.

Why do you refer to INTJs as "they"?
Aren't you an INTJ?
I am also an INTJ.

Would you please answer my question?
In at least 6 complete sentences?

I was referring to the people who wrote the other thread about T types as 'they.' If you notice, I did not contribute much to the thread, so it seems appropriate that I refer to that group of people as 'they.'

Now you're raising the number of sentences?! You sadistic schoolmarm!

[INTJMom]

I was referring to the people who wrote the other thread about T types as 'they.' If you notice, I did not contribute much to the thread, so it seems appropriate that I refer to that group of people as 'they.'

Now you're raising the number of sentences?! You sadistic schoolmarm!
:devil: If you don't hurry up and answer me I'll make it even higher! Bwahahahaha!

[INTJMom]

Did you even read the whole thing?
It took me an hour to write it, you know!
And you posted 3 minutes later!

[Haphazard]

:devil: If you don't hurry up and answer me I'll make it even higher! Bwahahahaha!

I refuse to answer, then.

I will take my F with pride. You can take away my good GPA, but you can't take away my dignity.

[INTJMom]

There's going to be a quiz on it later!

[Haphazard]

There's going to be a quiz on it later!

Do your worst.

I'm dropping out of this class on Friday, anyway.

[INTJMom]

You made me waste an hour of my life for nothing!
You didn't even read my post.

[Haphazard]

You made me waste an hour of my life for nothing!
You didn't even read my post.

I read enough to know that I'm not giving into your demands of five sentences about one stupid post I made.

I hope you understand that I didn't make you do anything. I didn't stand behind you with a pitchfork demanding that you analyze that thread. Hell, I didn't even ask you to analyze that thread. You did it yourself, of your own volition. If you benefitted, fine, if you wasted your own time, fine. But you can't blame it on me.

[Athenian200]

I read enough to know that I'm not giving into your demands of five sentences about one stupid post I made.

I hope you understand that I didn't make you do anything. I didn't stand behind you with a pitchfork demanding that you analyze that thread. Hell, I didn't even ask you to analyze that thread. You did it yourself, of your own volition. If you benefitted, fine, if you wasted your own time, fine. But you can't blame it on me.

Yeah, I think INTJMom read a little too much into it... overanalyzed it, if you will. She was too fixated on the nature of the arguments and insisting on the original topic as the context to be used, when in fact the discussion topic had moved from that, without regard to the quality of the arguments associated with that movement.

It seemed to me that you were just making a silly comment about the thread's progression. Noting that the thread had come to be about whether Ts tended to be depressed, you joked that the thread itself was making you depressed...
Twisted it around, so that the thread was a cause of what was being discussed, rather than simply an attempt at describing/measuring it.

[INTJMom]

If I had thought he was joking I wouldn't have cared so much.
I thought he was serious, and I cared about the pain I thought he was in.
I kept my promise.
I did what I said I would do.
That's all that's important.

[Haphazard]

If I had thought he was joking I wouldn't have cared so much.
I thought he was serious, and I cared about the pain I thought he was in.

1) I don't know if I'm ever entirely serious, particularly on this forum.

2) Even if that post was serious, I am one of those strange people whose pains are so fleeting anyway that reminding me of them in an attempt to 'help' just makes it worse by forcing me to stew in them.

[Nocapszy]

What mental illnesses are more likely to occure in types?I've noticed ISTJs tend to resemble OCDs.
IN_J or EN_P are most like schizophrenics.

I've no real reason for asking other than to simply know.
That's usually my favorite reason too.

[Haphazard]

Apologies for derailing the thread.

Proceed.

[littledarling]

As an INFJ I have struggled greatly with a thing called the existential vacuum. Or rather, the vacuum or black hole of meaninglessness. I have also battled a severe eating disorder throughout my life and I know 4 other female INFJ's who have also.

[mlittrell]

wanna really learn how mental illnessess and types work, read The Edge Effect by Eric Braverman.

if you do this might save you some time:

SJ -> GABA
SP -> serotonine
NT -> dopamine
NF -> acetylcholine

sorry for the spelling mistakes

[Apollanaut]

As an INFJ I have struggled greatly with a thing called the existential vacuum. Or rather, the vacuum or black hole of meaninglessness. I have also battled a severe eating disorder throughout my life and I know 4 other female INFJ's who have also.

I read somewhere that female INFJs are the type most prone to anorexia. My guess would be that inferior Se can give a distorted body image. Combine this with Fe's desire to fit in and be accepted could lead to an eating disorder. I don't mean to trivialise a serious problem, but I do believe that personality factors are related to mental dysfunctions.

I am a male INFJ, and while I do not have an eating disorder, I am prone to bodily cravings when I get stressed (that damn Se again) and I probably have the potential for addictions. I also find it hard to see myself as others do.

[sade]

As an INFJ I have struggled greatly with a thing called the existential vacuum. Or rather, the vacuum or black hole of meaninglessness. I have also battled a severe eating disorder throughout my life and I know 4 other female INFJ's who have also.

I've managed to avoid the existential vacuum (I do recognize what it is..), but that's mostly due to the fact that I've held a high believe to existentialism ever since 10 years old. Not that I knew the name for it then. I could tell you what I was seeing and thinking, remembering at the moment the realisation hit me.. I go back to it when ever I feel the lack of meaning.

Funny, I've also battled anorexia, still do. Even though it never was my main diagnosis, mine was EDNOS but I fit the anorexia almost perfectly. There's a long story behind how the eating disorder came to be.

[01011010]

I read something that stated INTs are most likely to be schizophrenic.

[locke]

Actually there is a website with this....

DELIVERY

INFP personality type (http://homeopathy.healthspace.eu/types/INFP.php)

There's something funny about that site. Looks like they're listing the inverse of the auxiliary function as the dominant function... they're not minding their P's and J's. Either that or I've misunderstood something about cognitive functions.