Uhh - wondering my ENTJness

[Santtu]

So I'm ENTJ, by recent test and self-evaluation. Seems sensible. I've been that in my most productive times, when I haven't had any weakness of mind. I'm feeling a bit dull tho, and my lifestyle - along with my values - have been described as shallow.

Yet, I don't feel a bit like a leader, someone who's taking over the world or anything like that. I feel just as I did as an ENTP, just that I've gathered my shit together.

So what have I done differently to what I did as an ENTP?

I wake up early and do long hours of work.

I test how much willingness to work (drive) I get from each short period of free time. I'm trying to find out what is the least amount of free time I can do to keep myself focused, and to pay my debt in the minimum time possible.

I still see myself as flexible, funny man.. someone with no evil intentions.. tho I do push a lot more on my loved ones. I still calculate if it is useful to do so .. so I think I'm more balanced now than I was as ENTP, with the ability to weight carefully if a given pleasure is good enough to outweight the problems it gives. I'm not so more a slave of addiction, or desire; Not a joyless person either.

Yet I wish for something more, and feel less satisfaction for doing irresponsible things at a whim.

I've flexed around ENTP .. I've strongly identified with ENFJ, ENTJ, ENTP and ENFP some time in the last 8 years I've known about MBTI, moderately with INTP, INTJ and ESTP, and weakly with ISTP and ESTJ. The rest I've not identified with at all, ever. That ENFJ time seems like idiocy to me this time, ENFP time cute but non-successful.. Which leaves out ENTP and ENTJ as respectable types I've strongly identified with, as ENTJ as my work-mode (which may lead to burnout), and ENTP as my recovery mode (when I don't accomplish as much as I'd like).

I think I've been ENTJ and ENFP at my personal best, or something I've felt as best at a time. I've regretted ENFP times, but practically none with ENTJ .. yeah, ENTJ time has been my best time, when measured by what I do. ENTP by my enjoyment of the moment.

I guess ENTJ-time has been my power-time too, something that has driven me to burnout when not done right. ENTP time has been the most stress-free-time, something I've approached when I haven't felt any external pressures, or when I've been lazy, or still recovering from burnout. (and there have been a few of them).

So uhh, my type of the day is ENTJ. This type is a bit hated in here, so at first I just thought to shut up until the feeling passes.

THere's that explanation too, that a flexible person "becomes" the person he has to in order to accomplish what he wants. I surely have that.. yet I don't necessarily accomplish what someone else wants. LOl. So am I ENTP (the chameleon) .. or was it ENFP? :huh: in the end, just having my ENTJ costume on? :huh:

Not a big deal, personality is just meh to me, compared to what's going on.

[Santtu]

OMG Typo, BIG typo.. I wrote ENFJ, but I meant ENTJ. I am a bit tired. Hope no-one's written a long story of my new-found ENFJ-ness while I corrected that mistake :D

[ThatGirl]

have you noticed that same types have the same cycles? I wonder if enviornmental attributions play a role?

[YourLocalJesus]

I gotta say that we seem to think alike on this matter. It took me bloody three years to figure out I was an ENTJ. I don't feel like some bloody leader, and up until recently i've probably acted as some kind of shadow type because I was between a rock and a hard place. As you said to, i've got my shit together now and then my ENTJ costume comes on.

Do you think many ENTJ's have this problem, Not identifying as ENTJ?

[Santtu]

I've been pushing myself very gently to some goals, tho I guess the environment haven't been so gentle. I've wanted this, but the last push came from outside.

[Santtu]

Uhh, this text is in no disrespect to ENTP. Just that I didn't feel like being a completely able person as an ENTP, i.e. being too much a slave of my whims, I wasn't truly carefree or leisurely enough to qualify as an average ENTP. For a long time, I felt like lacking in the creativity department, and improvisation.. I also felt much too serious for my own good, and I've only got more serious. THe whole package makes more sense as an ENTJ.

[Tom_ENTJ]

Unfortunately I can't relate, but as an abstract thinker I hope I can respond adequately.

The difference is that your primary function switched from extroverted intuition to extroverted thinking.

My theory is that you started out as a strong extroverted thinker, regardless of your primary function of intuition. As people age, they generally tend to rely more on their past experiences (having had more of them).

As you mature, so does your sensing function (specifically your introverted sensing function). This could mean that you have taken to rely more on your old, strong secondary, extroverted thinking, changing your type to ENTJ, rather than the alternative, ESTP, because you are still a highly intuitive person.

I hope I've helped,
Tom

[Lucifer]

I am a Leo and ENTJ, whether you believe in astrology or the MBTI, they have my definition perfect.

I have never had a problem being a leader, but have had problems being an individual because I have an extreme desire to win and it pushes people away, although at the same time pulling my teamates in.

[Santtu]

Yeah, I'm extremely competitive at heart, rather harsh and remorseless big-picture thinker.. But then, I've developed a "compatibility mode" to think less of the big picture, less of the proven, factual and competitive - and more of the cute, casual, anecdotal, personal and subjective. I've had to develop a liking for it for the sake of my sanity. But.. it makes me never feel like belonging to a random assortment of people. Still, I've learned to enjoy people for what they are and to not take myself so seriously for the most part.

I mostly feel belonging to a groups that accomplish something. Sadly, something has prevented me from understanding early enough how decisive I really have to be, and that specialization is the way to go in the current job market. That a job calls for wide knowledge of a certain area is more of a exception rather than the rule, and I regret for having made the wrong evaluations.

[FDG]

I used to test as ENTP with J/P on the 50/50 line. Eventually though when I started reading soconics it was glaringly obvious that I wasn't ENTp there. I don't think ENTJs feel like leaders, I think that sometimes we just fall into that role because we (apparently - that's not how I feel like, but I am said to be perceived this way) are confident in our opinion/course of action when there's an uncertain issue.

The difference is that your primary function switched from extroverted intuition to extroverted thinking.

Not exactly. It probably switched from creative (2nd function, define it how you want) introverted intuition to extraverted thinking.

[Lucifer]

I think that is probably true for some, but I do not feel like that at all.

I feel like a leader and do fall into that role often.

[Santtu]

Well, I'm not discounting my ENTJness on the grounds that I haven't wanted to lead. I thought about it now and then few years back, when I noticed the ability to take the responsibility and decide for some groups. I mostly just gathered data of people's desires and the resources to do so, and discussed about them until we had a solution. I think there was just a touch of J in there, but it seemed mostly P-type leading. More like being a host. But then, I was able to stop the evaluation at a point and start doing.

Career counselor, Psychologist whom I visited recommended me to either pursue a job in some unspecified managerial positions, or that of an independent expert, preferably in ICT sector (as that's the sector I can most readily enter). So yes I've thought about it, I just feel most like just leading myself first, and getting myself to my target sector/position before I can start to lead others. It might take some time too. But, now I just want to become a system administrator first.

[ajblaise]

man, being an ENTJ must be a tough thing to admit to. i feel your pain, but at this point, you should accept it, and try to carry on...somehow.....

[Santtu]

Do you think many ENTJ's have this problem, Not identifying as ENTJ?
Perhaps, if it's overemphasized in the descriptions how decisive they are, not relaxed, what kind of leadership they show, etc.

I think it's been severely understated how a decisive person can actually let them selves go and enjoy the moment, when they have first scheduled the time as play time. It doesn't have to be much in advance; for me, it's just that I need to see that I can afford that time away from my responsibilities, plus I need or want it.

[FDG]

Perhaps, if it's overemphasized in the descriptions how decisive they are, not relaxed, what kind of leadership they show, etc.

I think it's been severely understated how a decisive person can actually let them selves go and enjoy the moment, when they have first scheduled the time as play time. It doesn't have to be much in advance; for me, it's just that I need to see that I can afford that time away from my responsibilities, plus I need or want it.

I definitely agree. Look at these nice socionics descriptions of two types of ENTjs for example, they allow for a lot more variation:

ENTJ:
REFORMER(Te subtype)
Logical subtype produces the impression of mobile, but strict and efficient person. Its face is not very emotional. Loves to look directly, into the support, izuchayushche. View for a long time is fixed on the collocutor or the objects. It is a little shy, although he tries to hide this. There is is somewhat it is distrustful, critical and superfluously categorical. It is difficult to distract it from that planned, he tries everything to lead to the end. In spite of habit to the meditations, it is decisive and impulsive in words and behavior. It is inclined to the prolonged conversations. Tension in the contact because of the desire to seem self-possessed, careful and serious is characteristic of it. Its apparent undeliberateness can be changed into the unexpected haste. In the majority of the cases its figure is thickset, and motions are angular. He tries to be held confidently, also, with the merit. If it jokes, then this with the serious form makes, only smiling by the corn ers of lips.

STRATEGIST(Ni subtype)
Intuitive subtype is pleasant in the contact, it is courteous and amiable. It is affectionate, oars, it possesses a developed feeling of humor. He frequently becomes the soul of company. It is very mobile, restless and scattered, constantly it hurries, tries to have time to make much. Voodushevlen, is energetic and optimistic. It is very enterprising, boldly it goes to the risk, it has many ideas. To it is difficult long time to sosredotachivat' attention in by something one. It has immediately several points of the application of its forces. Is diplomatic galanten with all, especially with the women, but it can manifest familiarity with the closer acquaintance. Because of the tendency toward the unceremoniousness, it frequently changes a feeling of time, and it accomplishes the ethical oversights, which so rapidly he tries to correct with the aid of the jokes and different services. Behaves simply, raskovanno and unconstrainedly. In the conversation sometimes it loves to conc ern collocutor, to embrace, to kiss, to joke. Gestures and gait are deprived of the emphasized solidity, it is very natural.

[Lucifer]

I would fall into the REFORMER category more readily then the STRATEGIST.

That does seem obvious though.

[substitute]

Even taking the vagaries of Babelfish into account, I can see that when my ENTJ switch gets flipped, I'm the strategist subtype.

My shrink friend who does all the MBTI stuff and tests and whatever with me, he's said he agrees that certain experiences of my life have elevated my Te to about equal with Ti. He says I'm still Ne primary, but certain situations cause me to "flip the J switch" and 'become' ENTJ, letting Te lead in fact rather than Ne.

That combination of Te leading Ne, not a usual combination, I think can easily come across like the Strategist ENTJ described (sorta) above. For a while I thought I was an ENTJ, because I was in a situation where that switch spent most of its time in the 'ON' position... but it burnt me out after a while cos it's not my preferred way of being... so I reverted eventually back to 'burnt out ENTP', which can look a bit more like INTP, superficially.

[Lucifer]

"Q" is described as an ENTP as well right ?

Which is why you used the picture?

[Mitzy]

we're wasomeee

[substitute]

But... an ENTJ is not just an ENTP that has got his shit together. That's ridiculous. That's like saying an ENTP is just an INTP that goes out a lot, or an ENFJ is just an ENFP that doesn't flake haha...

I wonder how many ENTP's there are out there who don't identify with their type because they have, bit like I have, learned to be a bit more organized, dutiful or disciplined...

Lucifer - yeah, he's a naughty ENTP :cheese:

[Lucifer]

He is quite the character, one of the best in the Star Trek universe second only to...

Picard > Q

Picard = ENTJ

^^

[substitute]

No way dude, Picard's an INTJ :yes:

[Lucifer]

hmmm...Explain

[substitute]

hmmm...Explain

srsly... I mean it's like a universal international consensus or something - have you been living in a cave?? :huh:

*tries to find links*

Anyway, let's not get the thread split, eh? I'll ping you with it ;)

[Mitzy]

he always does that :threaten:

[Lucifer]

Oh yea blame me for it, such a woman thing to do...

[Mitzy]

just making an observation ;p

[proteanmix]

Moved to What's my Type?

[Babylon Candle]

Even taking the vagaries of Babelfish into account, I can see that when my ENTJ switch gets flipped, I'm the strategist subtype.

My shrink friend who does all the MBTI stuff and tests and whatever with me, he's said he agrees that certain experiences of my life have elevated my Te to about equal with Ti. He says I'm still Ne primary, but certain situations cause me to "flip the J switch" and 'become' ENTJ, letting Te lead in fact rather than Ne.

That combination of Te leading Ne, not a usual combination, I think can easily come across like the Strategist ENTJ described (sorta) above. For a while I thought I was an ENTJ, because I was in a situation where that switch spent most of its time in the 'ON' position... but it burnt me out after a while cos it's not my preferred way of being... so I reverted eventually back to 'burnt out ENTP', which can look a bit more like INTP, superficially.

i related to most of this. being an ENFP with pretty strong Te.

It would be interesting to make another thread about Ne + Te and how that manifests in ENXPs. The best way to describe it for me is having the focus of the INTJ, yet still being extroverted iNtuition... I call it the juggernaught mode/terminator mode. It makes me feel unstoppable.

I find it funny that I sometimes have more "I want to take over the world" than the REAL ENTJs do :devil:

[YourLocalJesus]

Are you some kind of monster NF, oh flame of Babylon? :D

[Santtu]

But... an ENTJ is not just an ENTP that has got his shit together. That's ridiculous. That's like saying an ENTP is just an INTP that goes out a lot, or an ENFJ is just an ENFP that doesn't flake haha...

I wonder how many ENTP's there are out there who don't identify with their type because they have, bit like I have, learned to be a bit more organized, dutiful or disciplined...

Lucifer - yeah, he's a naughty ENTP :cheese:
Come on, ENTXs rock as far as I'm concerned! ENTPs don't have anything "lost" as a whole, or anything broken that should be fixed. It's not my main point. I'm just one instance of my personality type, whatever that may be - and I'm saying, I was happy but a bit ineffective ENTP, and I don't think I really captured the ENTP ideal. For example, I thought all the ENTP in here much more funnier by what they wrote, more interesting, etc. Granted, I'm funny in person, rather than with a secondary language I've mostly used for technical writing.

Still, I think I succeed more in the ENTJ ideal at the moment. I haven't been a balanced ENTJ when I have been one, exhausting myself with all the work when I've got the chance. I guess I'm understanding now that human mind has it's limits, and I feel the last 6 months working quite well for me.

One point of why I feel I'm a bad ENTP. I talk of variety, creativity and inspiration, but I've worked my butt off in my day job, filling job applications and such, finding only little artistic or creative merit every day. I long thought my T was stronger than N, for perhaps half a year on this forum, or more.

So, ENTP rock, my life long desires just speak more of J type - I found out to be INTJ first when I was introduced to MBTI. My life have been that of strict planning, trying to learn spontainety and all the P skills for my type, and I think I have done so quite well.

But, I know how it has been. J type behavior in the grand scale, trying to learn P things. In a smaller scale, that of few years - I've got burnouts while engaging in J behavior, and relaxed a few years at a time with P behavior. So, I guess ENTJ for now :rolleyes:

[substitute]

Uh... whether one or the other or whatever 'rocks' or not wasn't really my point either, dude... lol you're talking as if you thought I was taking it all personally...? :huh:

My point was that if you believed yourself to be ENTP, then simply having got your shit together alone doesn't really mean that you're not any more. But also, what personality type you are also isn't about which profile you feel most captured by. Hell, sometimes I'd like to BE an ENTJ, sometimes I wish I could be an ENFP. But I'm not. It's about what you ARE, not what you just WISH you were. Then when you realise the full potential of who you are and what that can be at its best, the idea is you accept yourself and strive to be the best you can be, rather than the 'average' or best that someone else could be.

[Santtu]

Uh... whether one or the other or whatever 'rocks' or not wasn't really my point either, dude... lol you're talking as if you thought I was taking it all personally...? :huh:

My point was that if you believed yourself to be ENTP, then simply having got your shit together alone doesn't really mean that you're not any more. But also, what personality type you are also isn't about which profile you feel most captured by. Hell, sometimes I'd like to BE an ENTJ, sometimes I wish I could be an ENFP. But I'm not. It's about what you ARE, not what you just WISH you were. Then when you realise the full potential of who you are and what that can be at its best, the idea is you accept yourself and strive to be the best you can be, rather than the 'average' or best that someone else could be.
I didn't start from the presumption that ENTP would be bad somehow, and ENTJ would be an improvement. I noticed I'm more of a functional person at this time, well recovered from my burnout and doing what I do naturally, wishing nothing more of myself at the moment. Being ENTP, I wished of myself the capability to decide in a J-ish fashion, like I did before I had even heard of MBTI. Being ENTJ, I find nothing lacking.

I didn't choose type from a set of descriptions who rocks or anything like that.. I'm weighing what I can do in my life at the moment, and judge myself to be at my most functional time, ever. I work hard, but not too hard to relax and enjoy life.

And yeah, I wanted to shoot down the idea of ENTJ as an "improvement" to ENTP, just because it's such a ridiculous idea I can't let anyone think such a thing for a second :D No, I don't consider you someone who takes offense easily / at all , I just wanted to be clear about my thoughts and values.

In a nutshell: I am closer to my personal best now as ENTJ, which makes me think it's somehow a more "natural", "genuine" or "original" personality type for me, perhaps with INTJ. I think NTJ has been the framework of my whole life, while other kinds of personality have surfaced when I have allowed it, or the situation has forced it.

[Fiver]

I have taken the test (not from a professional) several times over the past two decades and I always come up an ENTP. I feel confident about my N & T, but the E/I and P/J, ehhh. I don't know. The problem is I seem to embody the weaknesses of both P & J.

Maybe I'm just a mature ENTP.