Chicago Cubs

[Lateralus]

For the good of all mankind, it's vitally important that the Cubs do not win the World Series. Thankfully, the Dodgers are doing their job, so far. :static:

[kuranes]

You prefer the Sox ?

[Jeffster]

I think it would be cool to see the Cubs finally win. It would certainly be better than the Red Sox again.

[kuranes]

What about the White Sox ?

* Does obligatory "Hurray for my city" dance and flag/logo wave. "Whooo" etc. *

[Lateralus]

I'm from St. Louis.

Cubs lose. One down, two to go!

[EffEmDoubleyou]

For the good of all mankind, it's vitally important that the Cubs do not win the World Series. Thankfully, the Dodgers are doing their job, so far. :static:

Seconded! As a Phillies fan living in Los Angeles, I would like the Dodgers to win so that I could potentially attend an NLCS game. (On the same note...go Angels!)

[Lateralus]

I have a fantasy where I go to Wrigley field dressed like Bartman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bartman) and sit in the left field seats, right along the edge of the field. At a critical point in the game, I reach out and snatch a ball from the grasp of the Cubs left fielder. The crowd boos, then threatens. I tear open my shirt, revealing a Cardinals jersey and I'm torn apart by hundreds of angry Cubs fans.

Steve Bartman Incident

[whatever]

Just because a Cubs victory may very well indicate the coming end of the world doesn't mean that I'm any less excited about thier success this season *knocks on wood*

[pure_mercury]

I am going to Game 2 of Phillies-Brewers tonight. I am very pumped. It will be entertaining win or lose, because Brett Myers will either dominate like Hamels did in Game 1. . . or he will have an epic meltdown. I hope for Mrs. Myers' sake, he gets the W.

Dodgers: keep it up! Phillies-Dodgers is the NLCS I was hoping for.


P.S. Brett Myers wifebeating joke: hilarious or too much?

[prplchknz]

Just because a Cubs victory may very well indicate the coming end of the world doesn't mean that I'm any less excited about thier success this season *knocks on wood*

before this I didn't care who won. But if it means the end of the world and then I don't ever have to be a productive member of society...Go Cubs!! :woot:

[Lateralus]

Just because a Cubs victory may very well indicate the coming end of the world doesn't mean that I'm any less excited about thier success this season *knocks on wood*
I suppose you're right. Winning the division is a major accomplishment for that organization.

[whatever]

I'm still pissed off about the 2003 season :dry:

I think that it's about time that dedicated Cubs fans get thrown a bone!

FUCK OFF AND DIE STEVE BARTMAN!!!!!

[pure_mercury]

I'm still pissed off about the 2003 season :dry:

I think that it's about time that dedicated Cubs fans get thrown a bone!

FUCK OFF AND DIE STEVE BARTMAN!!!!!

I find it bitterly hilarious when a non-Philadelphian complains that his or her city never gets a break sports-wise.

[whatever]

I beleive that the Cubs fans have the right to whine- we have the longest dry spell in all of professional sports :cry:

Seriously- they've more than regained thier sports second virginity! :(

[Lateralus]

Cubs fans do have a right to whine. Their tears feed my soul.

[whatever]

damn you Cardinals fans.... you're all evil, I should know. My sis betrayed the family's Cubs fandom and followed her man into the Cardinals camp :dry:

[pure_mercury]

I beleive that the Cubs fans have the right to whine- we have the longest dry spell in all of professional sports :cry:

Seriously- they've more than regained thier sports second virginity! :(

At least you've had the Bulls and Bears in the last 25 years. There hasn't been a world championship in the four major team sports in Philadelphia since I was 9 months old. I want a freaking parade.

[whatever]

At least you've had the Bulls and Bears in the last 25 years. There hasn't been a world championship in the four major team sports in Philadelphia since I was 9 months old. I want a freaking parade.

Basketball sucks, and I have the misfortune of being surrounded by Colts fans, who rub in the Super Bowl victory whenever they get a chance... and don't even MENTION that the Sox got a win a while back :steam:

I think it's definitley about time for the Cubs to win!

[Lateralus]

damn you Cardinals fans.... you're all evil, I should know. My sis betrayed the family's Cubs fandom and followed her man into the Cardinals camp :dry:
I actually hope the Cubs win a few games this postseason. I'm hoping they come within a strike of making it to the World Series before blowing it in typical Cubs fashion. Perhaps it could be another Bartman. Maybe a black cat will run out on the to the field. Maybe they'll just choke.

[whatever]

I actually hope the Cubs win a few games this postseason. I'm hoping they come within a strike of making it to the World Series before blowing it in typical Cubs fashion. Perhaps it could be another Bartman. Maybe a black cat will run out on the to the field. Maybe they'll just choke.

you are a .... horrible... person! I'll be inhabiting the drunk thread for a week to make up for having my soul crushed if that happens! :(

[Lateralus]

you are a .... horrible... person! I'll be inhabiting the drunk thread for a week to make up for having my soul crushed if that happens! :(
Remarkably, I don't feel even the slightest twinge of guilt. Perhaps most Cardinal fans are sociopaths.

[whatever]

Remarkably, I don't feel even the slightest twinge of guilt. Perhaps most Cardinal fans are sociopaths.

true... damned psycho St. Louis people... :dry:

On the other hand- what will all of the Cubs fans have to hope for if the Cubs DO win the world series :unsure:

[pure_mercury]

Remarkably, I don't feel even the slightest twinge of guilt. Perhaps most Cardinal fans are sociopaths.

They are pretty weird fans. They clap and cheer even when the Cardinals lose. Even when they lose by making major mental errors. You'd never see that happen here.

[Lateralus]

The question is moot. You won't win.

[Lateralus]

They are pretty weird fans. They clap and cheer even when the Cardinals lose. Even when they lose by making major mental errors. You'd never see that happen here.
They boo a lack of effort, a bad attitude, and Keith Hernandez.

[whatever]

The question is moot. You won't win.

thank you for the info, god- now I'll go and stock up on booze for when I have to drink myself into a stupor for thier "inevitable" loss...

[pure_mercury]

They boo a lack of effort, a bad attitude, and Keith Hernandez.


We boo drunk Santa Clauses, players on other teams NOT being injured, and superstars.

[Lateralus]

You also throw batteries at JD Drew.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

You also throw batteries at JD Drew.

We consider that a public service. Half of them were really meant for Scott Boras, anyway.

[anii]

For the good of all mankind, it's vitally important that the Cubs do not win the World Series. Thankfully, the Dodgers are doing their job, so far. :static:

That's funny. I don't recall seeing this as one of the 7 signs in Revelations.

Go Cubbies!

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Seeing what a championship turned those long-suffering Red Sox fans into a few years back is reason enough to hope the Cubs lose...for their own good!

[Modern Nomad]

watching the game yesterday, the stadium was sooo silent....

u could hear a pin drop... crazyness

felt kind of bad for the cubs fans when i heard how silent the stadium was...

eh... oh wells... go dodgers!

[pure_mercury]

You also throw batteries at JD Drew.

What Drew did to them after the draft was absolutely ridiculous. Also, our (at the time) soon-to-be mayor threw snowballs at the Cowboys team and staff.

[Lateralus]

Two down, one to go.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Same here :) I'm two wins (one Phils, one Dodgers) away from going to the NLCS.

[Lateralus]

The fat lady has sung.

This is kind of disappointing. I was hoping for a little more drama. The Cubs didn't even whimper as they were swept out of the playoffs.

[pure_mercury]

Same here :) I'm two wins (one Phils, one Dodgers) away from going to the NLCS.

We better finish it off today. I do NOT want to go to a Game 5 in Philly.

[Lateralus]

Last night, I dreamt that the Cubs were in the NLCS. Imagine my relief when I woke up to realize it was just a horrible, horrible nightmare.

[pure_mercury]

Phillies are already up 2-0 in the NLCS. Who wants a piece???

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Phillies are already up 2-0 in the NLCS. Who wants a piece???

Werd. Brett Myers = Babe Ruth.

[Neo Genesis]

Phillies are already up 2-0 in the NLCS. Who wants a piece???

Is it any surprise? Both teams swept the other at home in the regular season.

[pure_mercury]

Is it any surprise? Both teams swept the other at home in the regular season.

I doubt that continues. I think the Phils take at least one in L.A.

[Neo Genesis]

I doubt that continues. I think the Phils take at least one in L.A.

I'd certainly be surprised if that happened, but then again I'm a dodgers fan.

[pure_mercury]

I'd certainly be surprised if that happened, but then again I'm a dodgers fan.

You'd be surprised that a team who is 2-0 in a playoff series wins 1 or more of the next 3 games in it? You must not be a gambler. :D The Phillies should be favored in Game 5, when Hamels should be pitching again. Also, the Phillies were the best team in the league on the road this season.

[Aimahn]

Somehow I think Moyer is going to be ABUSED by Manny and the Dodgers offense.

[Neo Genesis]

You'd be surprised that a team who is 2-0 in a playoff series wins 1 or more of the next 3 games in it? You must not be a gambler. :D The Phillies should be favored in Game 5, when Hamels should be pitching again.


I'm not. When discussing future events or implications, I tend to be wrong. Again, I'm a Dodgers fan. I don't want them losing, especially at home.

Also, the Phillies were the best team in the league on the road this season.

0-4 at Dodger Stadium. Granted, its a different situation, but still.

[Beat]

Cubs over Red Sox, yes please. Cubs over Yankees, yes please. Dodgers over anyone.... No thanks.

[pure_mercury]

0-4 at Dodger Stadium. Granted, its a different situation, but still.


Absolutely no bearing on this series. They play 162 games in a baseball season. Weird things are bound to happen. Jamie Moyer has never lost to the Marlins; there is no real rhyme or reason why not. Besides, if the home team wins every game in this series, the Phillies advance.

[pure_mercury]

Somehow I think Moyer is going to be ABUSED by Manny and the Dodgers offense.

Besides Ramirez and Loney, what is this "Dodgers offense" of which you speak? ;)

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Moyer was 16-7 this year with a 3.71 ERA. Yet everyone still seems to think that because he's old, they're going to beat up on him.

Dodger fans seem to think that the team that went on a tear in September is the "real Dodgers" instead of the team that struggled to go .500 for the first five months of the season (including a good stretch of time AFTER the Manny trade). I am a Phillies fan, but I live in LA and have watched the Dodgers all season. The truth is that both teams are the "real Dodgers"...they are what they are...a streaky team that got hot at the end of the season. Supporting your team is different than having unrealistic expectations for your team. Can they win? Sure. Is it likely? Certainly not. Of the nine teams that have fallen behind 2-0 in a seven game NLCS, only one recovered to win the series.

Kuroda seems to have the Phils' number, so my guess is that the Dodgers will win Game 3, the Phils and Blanton take Game 4 with Lowe on short rest, and then Hamels finishes them off in Game 5 against a shellshocked Billingsley.

[Aimahn]

Haha I remember Moyer from back in his Seattle days and the redsox would absolutely fucking destroy him and Manny played a big part in that. I'm to lazy and not invested enough to bring up his stats but I can almost guarantee you they are insane against him. Against patient right handers who have some pop, he has trouble.

Manny angry is a dangerous beast. When hes bothered like he is now its almost disgusting how easily he can drive ANY pitch to wherever the hell he feels like. If the rest of the offense just gets on base( Im sure moyer has his fare share of people on)

Lol I just actually hate mediocre pitchers who succeed because they are in the NL so if it sounds like I'm piling on I probably am.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Haha I remember Moyer from back in his Seattle days and the redsox would absolutely fucking destroy him and Manny played a big part in that. I'm to lazy and not invested enough to bring up his stats but I can almost guarantee you they are insane against him. Against patient right handers who have some pop, he has trouble.

Manny angry is a dangerous beast. When hes bothered like he is now its almost disgusting how easily he can drive ANY pitch to wherever the hell he feels like. If the rest of the offense just gets on base( Im sure moyer has his fare share of people on)

Lol I just actually hate mediocre pitchers who succeed because they are in the NL so if it sounds like I'm piling on I probably am.

None of this "Manny is mad, Manny kills Moyer" stuff means a whit unless the Dodgers can trot out the Looney Tunes lineup - first base Bugs Bunny, second base Bugs Bunny, third base Bugs Bunny...

And not many mediocre pitchers win 246 career games, good for 43rd all-time (and he's not done). It's not NL pitchers' fault that they play real baseball instead of beer league softball in the DH-loving AL.

[Aimahn]

Haha

BA OBP SLG OPS

.340 .417 .962 1.379

in 50+ abs.

Don't worry thats not significant. Don't pull the yankees 26 argument on me, I've heard it too many times and have refuted it to many times. Yes over his career hes been excellent, hes 45 now and barely cracks 80 mph, somehow I don't find it that hard for decent right handed hitters to adjust.

As for the pitcher comment look at how much Sabbathia dominated, how well Blanton did, Haren. Just ask the whole AL East how fun and easy it is to face the lineups they do. Speaking of those Yankees they still had a better record than the Dodgers by a decent margin in a much much tougher division and league. When you get down to it though, I can almost guarantee you that the dodgers will score at least 5 or 6 runs against Moyer. Hes a Joke. Im sorry he does not compare to the Garzas', Danks', Lesters'/Matsuzakas', or any respectable number 3 starter in the AL.

[pure_mercury]

Somehow I think Moyer is going to be ABUSED by Manny and the Dodgers offense.

Haha

BA OBP SLG OPS

.340 .417 .962 1.379

in 50+ abs.

Don't worry thats not significant. Don't pull the yankees 26 argument on me, I've heard it too many times and have refuted it to many times. Yes over his career hes been excellent, hes 45 now and barely cracks 80 mph, somehow I don't find it that hard for decent right handed hitters to adjust.

As for the pitcher comment look at how much Sabbathia dominated, how well Blanton did, Haren. Just ask the whole AL East how fun and easy it is to face the lineups they do. Speaking of those Yankees they still had a better record than the Dodgers by a decent margin in a much much tougher division and league. When you get down to it though, I can almost guarantee you that the dodgers will score at least 5 or 6 runs against Moyer. Hes a Joke. Im sorry he does not compare to the Garzas', Danks', Lesters'/Matsuzakas', or any respectable number 3 starter in the AL.


You're wrong here. Moyer was actually quite excellent this year. The Phils' best starting pitcher overall. In fact, I would rank him as second only to Lidge in consistent performance. Besides, he doesn't need to be better than those guys. He needs to be better than the Dodgers he faces.

[Aimahn]

I think you are greatly underestimating the impact a determined Manny has. Especially against a pitcher he hits well, ask any one who watches American League teams or any player in the AL. Ask K-rod and the angels, Sabbathia and the Indians, the Yankees..etc. The point is I can guarantee you he will do serious damage and it was evident every time the redsox faced him. Nomar I think hits him well as well. Seriously if you are a halfway decent right handed hitter who is patient he really isn't intimidating in the least. You're just used to watching a bunch of impatient shit hitters who feast on the crap in the NL. Yes I know there's a bunch of great hitters in the NL, but honestly the difference in patience is so massive when you're consistently facing deep staffs in the AL.

Seriously look at moyer's numbers and run and take a look at Manny's numbers and tell me whose are more impressive and whose numbers show more impact and influence on games. Russel martin and Nomar are decent enough right handed hitters so they probably will have an impact on the game and force Manny to get pitches or at least drive him in when hes walked.

[pure_mercury]

I think you are greatly underestimating the impact a determined Manny has. Especially against a pitcher he hits well, ask any one who watches American League teams or any player in the AL. Ask K-rod and the angels, Sabbathia and the Indians, the Yankees..etc. The point is I can guarantee you he will do serious damage and it was evident every time the redsox faced him. Nomar I think hits him well as well. Seriously if you are a halfway decent right handed hitter who is patient he really isn't intimidating in the least. You're just used to watching a bunch of impatient shit hitters who feast on the crap in the NL. Yes I know there's a bunch of great hitters in the NL, but honestly the difference in patience is so massive when you're consistently facing deep staffs in the AL.

Seriously look at moyer's numbers and run and take a look at Manny's numbers and tell me whose are more impressive and whose numbers show more impact and influence on games. Russel martin and Nomar are decent enough right handed hitters so they probably will have an impact on the game and force Manny to get pitches or at least drive him in when hes walked.

I think you are severely overestimating what one man can do. Manny's been totally locked in so far in the series, and his team is still down 2-0. Someone besides him and Loney will have to start clobbering the ball to get the Dodgers back in it.

[Aimahn]

Im telling you though, Moyers is not a guy like hamels or Myers who can completely frustrate and shut down a lineup. It really makes a difference because Moyer will always have to deal with people on base. He cant amp it up in a playoff situation like Myers has done, He cant reach back for a little extra or just confuse the hell out of hitters with a nasty "power" change(yea I hate that term but just stops not fade slowly).

The only thing he can do is slow it down and really execute pitches and against Manny in a big spot you can bet Manny will CRUSH the ball(no little singles DEEP doubles and hrs). Yea I get it hes been like that allready, but the thing is those other guys in the lineup will have every opportunity to get on base and moyer knows that and will rely on his ability to pitch. That just doesn't cut it in the playoffs against a playoff team WITH Manny. Yea he really can make a huge difference, trust me I'm a redsox fan I've witnessed it(my Yankee friends will also attest to that).

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I just don't understand your point. If it were that easy to hit Moyer, why did he win 16 games and have an ERA of 3.71? Those are numbers earned over an entire season of solid performance. Is every hitter in the NL an impatient moron except for these Dodgers at this point in time? Why all of a sudden are THESE Dodgers at THIS point in time guaranteed to knock him around? Your don't have a leg to stand on here logically.

Even if they DO knock him around, that doesn't prove that you were right in guaranteeing it. It's like if you picked the Rays to win the AL East before the season started. You wouldn't have had a legitimate logical basis for it, it would have basically been just something provocative to say, and since the horse came in, you look like a genius. In reality, you just got lucky. I'm sure there's a term for wild illogical predictions that come true and make someone look undeservingly astute, but I'm not smart enough to know what it is.

Finally, pure_mercury is right. You are putting too many eggs in the basket of one man. Manny is already killing it, and the Dodgers are down 2-0. Unless they find a way to let him bat every position in the lineup, it just doesn't matter.

[Aimahn]

my point is a 3.71 era in the NL is not equal to a 3.71 in the AL. The point I'm making is Mannys been killing it against great pitching, he always has and always will. The team was struggling against great pitching, Moyer is not the same dominating type pitcher as Myers or Hamels so I would estimate its very likely the rest of the dodgers will get their hits. Look at what Happended to kazmir today, the difference wasn't that Youkilis was hitting he still continued, but the rest of the team Pedroia, Drew, Coco, Bay all hit and Ortiz was on base all day.

There is a difference also in how someone compiled their era. Great game aside Daisuke really was a 5-6 inning pitcher and was no where near as valuable as a guy like Lester who went 7-8 dominating innings routinely. He IMO was still more valuable than Beckett though(the stats don't lie in that case). Moyer is a case in IMO where you have to take a step back from the stats and analyze on a more SF level... your putting too much NT in this, gotta learn when to switch.

[pure_mercury]

my point is a 3.71 era in the NL is not equal to a 3.71 in the AL.

Fortunately for Moyer, he is pitching against an NL team in this series. ;) Besides, the Phillies are the more "AL-style" team of the two. I don't care for that style very much, but it's working.


Moyer is a case in IMO where you have to take a step back from the stats and analyze on a more SF level... your putting too much NT in this, gotta learn when to switch.

Really? Baseball is the one sport where the stats tell almost everything.

[Aimahn]

Haha, I used to be a big stat nerd so I know that aspect pretty well.

Have you ever heard of SOSH?

I got a really good baseball stats 101 lesson there. One of the things I quickly learned was that you could get too hyper focused on stats and it was better to merge your actual baseball viewing knowledge and make inferences that would somewhat put you out on the limb. There is of couse a bunch of more in depth and detailed stats I could pull up(Sabermetrics and FIP and Isolated stats and what not), but I don't think thats necessary. That old stats saying really does ring true with baseball, If you want you can make stats say whatever the hell you want( Eric Van on SOSH).

For example I was having a discussion the other day with my friend about the rays and he was saying BJ Upton is not really a threat and the sox shouldn't be too concerned with him. I mentioned that he still had a great OBP so his approach wasn't the problem, still had speed, so maybe it was an injury or he just lost his aggresiveness but his power couldn't have evaporated. Sure enough He goes on a tear in the post season and has 4 HR's allready.

And the AL-NL comment was more along the lines that with a determined Manny and against the Wily veteran Moyer the Dodgers line up to him is more akin to an American League team. I think you're just hung up on the fact that I think Manny is too big a force but in actuality he really is that good.

The biggest point I'm trying to make is the fact that the rest of the dodgers shouldn't have too much problem with getting on base and with Manny on fire it spells a long night for him. Seriously though I don't think thats something we should really be arguing about. Moyer is a guy who deals with people on base ala Dice K but pitches out of the jams, Unlike Dice K however he can't reach back for strikeouts or go through dominating stretches.

[pure_mercury]

And the AL-NL comment was more along the lines that with a determined Manny and against the Wily veteran Moyer the Dodgers line up to him is more akin to an American League team. I think you're just hung up on the fact that I think Manny is too big a force but in actuality he really is that good.

He is not good enough to win the series on his own. No one is.


The biggest point I'm trying to make is the fact that the rest of the dodgers shouldn't have too much problem with getting on base and with Manny on fire it spells a long night for him. Seriously though I don't think thats something we should really be arguing about. Moyer is a guy who deals with people on base ala Dice K but pitches out of the jams, Unlike Dice K however he can't reach back for strikeouts or go through dominating stretches.

He's been pretty dominant several times during the season. He is not a big K guy, but that isn't necessary. He just needs to keep the ball down and to keep the bases as clear as possible.

[Aimahn]

He's been pretty dominant several times during the season. He is not a big K guy, but that isn't necessary. He just needs to keep the ball down and to keep the bases as clear as possible.

See thats the key there. Hes gotta have that approach against the REST of the dodgers lineup and it is up to them to take advantage, which I think they will. Manny on the other hand is Insanely good in the post season, Absurd. He also kills absolutely kills Moyer so it is going to be a very difficult task to maneuver around the rest of the lineup and also face Manny.

Honestly though it really isn't hyperbole Manny legitimately will be the one cog that you can say "hey if people are on he will drive them in and do damage" and sure enough it seems like 90% of the time you're right and look like a genius. Hes hit like 400 since he joined them with crazy power, he would go on similar stretches with the Redsox...matter of fact last post season thats how Manny was Especially in the Cleveland series, which they would not have won if he wasn't that hot and crazy.

I have to say though I dont think the dodgers will win the series nor do I want them to. Moyer v them though I really do think they will win

[pure_mercury]

See thats the key there. Hes gotta have that approach against the REST of the dodgers lineup and it is up to them to take advantage, which I think they will. Manny on the other hand is Insanely good in the post season, Absurd. He also kills absolutely kills Moyer so it is going to be a very difficult task to maneuver around the rest of the lineup and also face Manny.

Honestly though it really isn't hyperbole Manny legitimately will be the one cog that you can say "hey if people are on he will drive them in and do damage" and sure enough it seems like 90% of the time you're right and look like a genius. Hes hit like 400 since he joined them with crazy power, he would go on similar stretches with the Redsox...matter of fact last post season thats how Manny was Especially in the Cleveland series, which they would not have won if he wasn't that hot and crazy.

I have to say though I dont think the dodgers will win the series nor do I want them to. Moyer v them though I really do think they will win

This would be the one game this series in which I would bet against the Phils, if I had to do so. The Dodgers will be playing desperate, and they should be a little looser in front of the home crowd. Plus, they could get to Moyer early. If the Dodgers do win, though, who starts Game 4? Maddux? Game 4 is almost always the most important game in a 7-game series, and the Dodgers won't throw Lowe back in there unless they are down 3-0. I think I would take Joe Blanton over whomever the Dodgers throw out there.

[Aimahn]

Yea I think the Phillies really have an advantage in terms of their starters. Kurodas the wildcard but Hamels, Myers, Blanton I think is a better bet than Billingsley, Maddux(whoever their 4th starter is), Lowe. Billingsly let em down and Lowe is good just tough luck I guess. Their offense is also more consistently dangerous.

[Aimahn]

You were right moyer was decent for almost 2 innings. NOT!!!!!!

Ohh and Manny was on base every single time, Nomar and the rest of the dodgers offense weren't to intimidated by that sparkling 3.71 era and ace type performance.

And no it wasn't some lucky hunch judging by how vehemently I argued my point.

But I'd hate to say I told you so.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

And no it wasn't some lucky hunch judging by how vehemently I argued my point.

Uh, yeah, it was. That's why I took pains to point out ahead of time that I thought you had no basis for your prediction even if it turned out to be correct. This falls under "even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes". Besides, a single and two walks isn't really killing it. Group effort by the Dodgers...Manny's contributions were negligible.

[Aimahn]

Uh, yeah, it was. That's why I took pains to point out ahead of time that I thought you had no basis for your prediction even if it turned out to be correct. This falls under "even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes". Besides, a single and two walks isn't really killing it. Group effort by the Dodgers...Manny's contributions were negligible.

See thats the key there. Hes gotta have that approach against the REST of the dodgers lineup and it is up to them to take advantage, which I think they will. Manny on the other hand is Insanely good in the post season, Absurd. He also kills absolutely kills Moyer so it is going to be a very difficult task to maneuver around the rest of the lineup and also face Manny. When you get down to it though, I can almost guarantee you that the dodgers will score at least 5 or 6 runs against Moyer. Hes a Joke.




Hmmm......... Yea you're right that wasn't my point in the first place.

Oh and when your clean up hitter gets on base all 4 times. I would consider that a success. But what do I know maybe thats just a wild illogical guess that makes me look like a genius.:doh:

And I could quote more of what I said but I thought that would suffice.

[pure_mercury]

Hmmm......... Yea you're right that wasn't my point in the first place.

Oh and when your clean up hitter gets on base all 4 times. I would consider that a success. But what do I know maybe thats just a wild illogical guess that makes me look like a genius.:doh:

And I could quote more of what I said but I thought that would suffice.


And I predicted a Dodgers victory yesterday.

[pure_mercury]

NLCS hero Matt Stairs???

[EffEmDoubleyou]

And I predicted a Dodgers victory yesterday.

As did I.


Kuroda seems to have the Phils' number, so my guess is that the Dodgers will win Game 3, the Phils and Blanton take Game 4 with Lowe on short rest, and then Hamels finishes them off in Game 5 against a shellshocked Billingsley.

[Aimahn]

I wasn't arguing necessarily whether or not they would win or lose, more that Moyer was overrated and more a product of the Nl and would get beat decidedly. Also that it would essentially come down to how the rest of the dodgers hit(I postulated that they would), because knowing Manny's #'s he wouldn't get pitched to.

^That was the crux of my argument, which apparently didn't have a leg of logic to stand on:huh:. I just find it odd that the wild hunch or provocative statements proved to be eerily accurate.:D

[pure_mercury]

I wasn't arguing necessarily whether or not they would win or lose, more that Moyer was overrated and more a product of the Nl and would get beat decidedly. Also that it would essentially come down to how the rest of the dodgers hit(I postulated that they would), because knowing Manny's #'s he wouldn't get pitched to.

I still don't know why Manny has gotten so many pitches in this series. That is somewhat insane. Still, I don't think Moyer is "overrated," so much as "old and vulnerable to patient hitters."

[Modern Nomad]

man... i wish the la fan's didn't yell "phillie's suck" in the 6th inning...

philly doesn't seem like a typical nyc/boston type of city...

anyways... i think there's a pretty good chance billingsley will CHOKE big time on wed.

I just hope torre pulls him out in time.

the fatal mistake torre had in game 3 was in pulling hong chi kuo when he was pretty hot.

if we pull billingsley in time on wed, then we got a chance... im not worried about kuroda in philly...

then lowe might be able to take a game 7 into the 4th inning... and then... who knows what will happen...

[pure_mercury]

man... i wish the la fan's didn't yell "phillie's suck" in the 6th inning...

philly doesn't seem like a typical nyc/boston type of city...

Don't feel too bad. We yell WAY worse things in Philadelphia. We genuinely dislike the other team, always. L.A. is actually very low on the totem pole of places we hate, since it's so far away and it doesn't have an NFL team currently.

BTW, what is a typical "nyc/boston type of city?"

[Lateralus]

I wasn't arguing necessarily whether or not they would win or lose, more that Moyer was overrated and more a product of the Nl and would get beat decidedly. Also that it would essentially come down to how the rest of the dodgers hit(I postulated that they would), because knowing Manny's #'s he wouldn't get pitched to.
So you're another one of those AL superiority complex people. Got it.

[Modern Nomad]

Don't feel too bad. We yell WAY worse things in Philadelphia. We genuinely dislike the other team, always. L.A. is actually very low on the totem pole of places we hate, since it's so far away and it doesn't have an NFL team currently.

BTW, what is a typical "nyc/boston type of city?"

LOL its just that philly seems one of those teams that love the "comeback", and they thrive off the trashtalking...

u should see how the LA fans would have reacted to the red sox... LOL

something about philly seems different. at least the crowd... maybe its cus of that movie "Rocky" hehe

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I wasn't arguing necessarily whether or not they would win or lose, more that Moyer was overrated and more a product of the Nl and would get beat decidedly.

I guess what I found confusing about your prediction is that he was pitching against an NL team :huh:

If this were a World Series game and Moyer were facing an AL team, this would be an astute observation...but the Dodgers are in the NL. So being "a product of the NL" is moot. It's not like he racked up his wins in triple A and he's now pitching against better competition...he's still facing the same level of competition he accumulated those gaudy stats against.

[Aimahn]

My point is lineups in the NL are consistently worse than comparable AL teams. Manny's impact on the dodgers lineup is massive. Last time I checked before he was traded to the dodgers their leading hr hitter had like 13 homeruns. Ohh and I did watch moyer for a decent part of his career in the AL, where he was decidedly below average against decent offenses...like I don't know the redsox WITH Manny. 3.71 in the NL is most definitely not gaudy by the way. without looking at the stats the top 20 pitchers in the AL i'm sure bested that mark in a much tougher league and division(hallady, lester, matsuzaka, kazmir, garza, etc...)

[Aimahn]

So you're another one of those AL superiority complex people. Got it.

I watched moyer pitch in the AL and would salivate every time the redsox got to face him. Allthough I do infact hold that title I don't think it applies in this case.

Anyways seriously I was on point with EVERYTHING I said even had the runs down, and my arguments played out in the game. I really wasn't flaming. I just find it funny when people blindly follow stats and don't really pay attention to how they are compiled.

[pure_mercury]

My point is lineups in the NL are consistently worse than comparable AL teams. Manny's impact on the dodgers lineup is massive. Last time I checked before he was traded to the dodgers their leading hr hitter had like 13 homeruns. Ohh and I did watch moyer for a decent part of his career in the AL, where he was decidedly below average against decent offenses...like I don't know the redsox WITH Manny. 3.71 in the NL is most definitely not gaudy by the way. without looking at the stats the top 20 pitchers in the AL i'm sure bested that mark in a much tougher league and division(hallady, lester, matsuzaka, kazmir, garza, etc...)

3.71 in any professional league in 2008 is pretty damn good. Also, the Phillies would have arguably the best hitting lineup in the AL, so having mediocre guys at the bottom of the rotation is not as big a deal.

[Aimahn]

I don't think you get the fact that I really have nothing against the Phillies(probably one of my favorite NL teams). I was merely trying to state my case about Moyer. Pitching this year was actually much better across both leagues so you can add basically .5 to whatever a pitchers era is(in regards to what a good era is normally thought to be).

That number is actually the qualifier for the top 15(roughly) in each league, which is good but not especially noteworthy. Theres a big caveat with his numbers because he doesn't strike out to many and doesn't keep guys off base either which is actually one of the biggest success factors for playoff pitchers, doesn't even get too many groundballs.

Regardless all of this is getting a little too tangential and off my main point. I think I provided ample reasoning, was astoundingly accurate, and proved my point better than others.

Moving on..... what do you think the Phillies offseason plans are going to be?

Most likely wont resign burrell, Howard and Hamels I think are gonna get paid.

Dodgers and Manny?

[pure_mercury]

I don't think you get the fact that I really have nothing against the Phillies(probably one of my favorite NL teams). I was merely trying to state my case about Moyer. Pitching this year was actually much better across both leagues so you can add basically .5 to whatever a pitchers era is(in regards to what a good era is normally thought to be).

That number is actually the qualifier for the top 15(roughly) in each league, which is good but not especially noteworthy. Theres a big caveat with his numbers because he doesn't strike out to many and doesn't keep guys off base either which is actually one of the biggest success factors for playoff pitchers, doesn't even get too many groundballs.

Regardless all of this is getting a little too tangential and off my main point. I think I provided ample reasoning, was astoundingly accurate, and proved my point better than others.

Moving on..... what do you think the Phillies offseason plans are going to be?

Most likely wont resign burrell, Howard and Hamels I think are gonna get paid.

Dodgers and Manny?


Burrell should really go to the American League. The guy has DH written all over him. He will get paid. Howard and Hamels better stay, no matter the cost. Blanton goes to arbitration, I think. He may re-up.

[Modern Nomad]

Dodgers and Manny?

We need to get rid of Kent, Penny, Jones, Schmidt, first.

Manny should definitely be a resign though. But given that the dodger's owner mccourt is from boston, who knows where his loyalty lies.

Before the Dodger's got manny, there were lifelong dodger fans that were getting pretty sick of the mccourt and colletti duo.

chase utley and victorino should definitely be on the dodgers though. chase grew up in LA, and victorino was a dodger draft pick. how we let them get away... who knows.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Moving on..... what do you think the Phillies offseason plans are going to be?

Most likely wont resign burrell, Howard and Hamels I think are gonna get paid.

Dodgers and Manny?

I actually give them a slim chance to re-sign Burrell because he's expressed a desire to stay and his agent is not named Boras. If he's willing to give the hometown discount they may bite...not sure they have anyone ready to replace him.

Howard will definitely get paid, although it may be contentious...the Phils will surely point to his strikeout total in an effort to paint him as not worth the salary of an A-Rod or a Pujols. I've always had a bad feeling that the Phils will trade him before giving him the monster contract that is obviously coming his way.

Hamels will be arbitration eligible for the first time, so he'll probably deal with what Howard dealt with this year - a one year tender for under market value. Hamels isn't eligible for free agency until 2012, but unless they want to destroy their relationship, the team should step up before that.

I would LOVE to see them re-sign Blanton. Everyone always cries for a top of the rotation starter, but you win championships with pitching depth. Blanton is one of those #3 guys that wind up being very valuable, and he will probably be affordable.

As for Manny, I can't see how the Dodgers can get away with not re-signing him at this point. It would be a PR disaster. That said, I think if anyone gives Manny big money for more than two years, they're going to wind up with an albatross around their neck. It's a big lovefest in LA right now, but if they think he won't do to them what he did to Boston, they're dreaming.

[Modern Nomad]

As for Manny, I can't see how the Dodgers can get away with not re-signing him at this point. It would be a PR disaster. That said, I think if anyone gives Manny big money for more than two years, they're going to wind up with an albatross around their neck. It's a big lovefest in LA right now, but if they think he won't do to them what he did to Boston, they're dreaming.

Boston had a pretty shady history of dealing with players, even Garciaparra backed Manny on that one.

But yeah, the Dodger's management doesn't have a great history either of dealing with players. But no one in LA is gonna hate Manny cus the Dodger's management told them so. You can bet on that. If they get sick of him, it will be bc of his performance. Boston took Garnett from us, so we took Manny. Its even steven now.

Manny is 7 for 8 with runners in scoring position this postseason. I can't emphasize how INSANE those numbers are!

He is the best hitter in baseball. Period. And he is much more of a fun and clutch guy than ARod. Dodger fans will be pretty furious if Manny is not resigned. And Manny needs to understand how happy he really wants to be.

[Aimahn]

Haha. Now the

Manny love comes out?

I agree though, wait till you watch that guy for a whole season. Hes the only hitter I see that consistently hits nasty pitches and drives them. Too many times I've seen him just obliterate curves, sliders, changeups behind in the count ahead, being pitched around or pitched too. Makes it look like wiffle ball. You're not gonna get that effort though consistently at all. He only steps it up when he feels like it.

[pure_mercury]

We goin' to 'the ship! We goin' to the 'ship!

[EffEmDoubleyou]

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5625/mephillies1smallvg0.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6955/mephillies3smallsz3.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1277/rollinstrophysmallcl0.jpg

[pure_mercury]

Amazing comeback last night. I am kinda glad to see that series go back to Tampa. More travel, more starting pitchers used.

[Modern Nomad]

a lot of dodger fans would rather see the giants win over the red sox

congrats philly fans.

if u guys play the red sox in the world series, will be rooting for u guys. FCK BOSTON!

[Aimahn]

What the fuck!!

Dude I was so pissed. I was sitting at my friends(yankee fan) house and we were chilling drinking and watching the game, after like 3 innings when it was like 5-0 I was like fuck this , proceeded to kill some shots and smoke a cig. I eventually ended up hanging out with a couple of old friends and killed another blunt, so I was pretty out of it but my friend still kept needling me putting the game on the radio( Jon miller and Morgan didn't give the score for like 5 min) so I'm sitting there like fuck this they lost give it up.

Right as we were all about to go home at like 1 o clock my friends like so the Redsox get eliminated yet?

"the Rays...Man their like one of those destined teams, you see the way their hitting, no one could beat them this year...." and I'm just like we'll see... the phillies are a tough team, you never know they can hit too, myers and hamels have to step up though, and they better not fucking pitch moyer(yes I got my shot in)

So I get home like "fuck do I wanna look at the score before I go to bed and be pissed or just wait till tommorow and hear it all day" log on to mlb.com see the headline came back from 7 runs I was like WTF. I just texted him like "FUCK ME!!". I'm almost pissed that I missed that game but theres no way I could stayed with it, I definitely don't have the intestinal fortitude.

Shit. Drew again, damn whats all this shit that dodgers and phillies fans would say about him not having heart. Three times hes had key homeruns in the post season. Christ, its funny how almost no redsox fan is mentioning his contract anymore. It's a testament to how hes seemed to really go beserk right when it was most needed( Carmona in game 6, Ortiz out in June, K-rod in the 9th, Yesterday from the 7th on) dude knows how to get PAID.

Enough of that little rant though.

Did you all hear Mannys gem of a quote "I'm gonna go home and wait for the highest bidder, gas is up so is Manny"

Hahah there is Manny being Manny dodgers fan. Hope you enjoyed the 400 ba and 17 hr he hit. Lol have fun with that personality.

[pure_mercury]

No ever said that J.D. Drew didn't have heart. He is just an asshole for what he did to the Phillies after he was drafted. That Red Sox team doesn't die; you have to kill them, and the Rays didn't kill them last night.

As for Moyer, I am pretty certain he will be the #4 starter for the Series, so he will only have to pitch once.

Hamels
Myers
Blanton
Moyer

And then a reassessment, depending upon where we're at then. Hopefully, it will be Phils up 3-1, as I will have tickets for Game 5, and I'd love to see Hamels close out the Series.

[Lateralus]

I'll say it right here...JD Drew has no heart. The guy takes himself out of the lineup over a hangnail.

[pure_mercury]

Correction: one person has said J.D. Drew has no heart.

[Aimahn]

^ I just think he has a legitimately fragile body. You can only get pissed off to a certain extent, but really what is there for you to do when your body is liable to creek and sputter in little or long(months) intervals. I think its a shame because when he's healthy and in the zone he really is a pretty special player, granted one that can't be relied on to be a focal point because hes injured so frequently.

I think Boston was a good fit for him, LA was a decent fit as well(he was under appreciated there), He really is ridiculously laid back and calm though. Did you see the post game...fuck I was 10x more pumped and less composed, you'd think he only just drew an important walk in a little league game or something.

[Aimahn]

No ever said that J.D. Drew didn't have heart. He is just an asshole for what he did to the Phillies after he was drafted.

Correction. Scott Boras is an extreme douche. I actually was just talking to my friend about how difficult and ridiculous it is to deal with him(Yankee fan, Texiera, thinks they can get everyone) and I was saying that you have to be willing to invest an absurd amount of time with each and everyone of his clients and it's extremely draining and affects everything you plan to do with your team.

We'll definitely see the effect with Manny, Texeira, CC(I think Boras might have him), and who ever else is lucky/unfortunate to have him represent them. Not to mention all the draft picks he fucks with, and all the legal loopholes he gets through(arbitration), think of Utley, Victorino, Howard, Hamels and how much more difficult it woulda been to deal with them had they got a guaranteed big league contract like Drew and other big league players he represented.

[Lateralus]

Correction: one person has said J.D. Drew has no heart.
I take it you haven't spoken to many Cardinals or Braves fans about him.

[Aimahn]

I take it you haven't spoken to many Cardinals or Braves fans about him.

I think the cardinals got the brunt of it. The braves should be kissing his ass, he absolutely was integral to them that season, they would have a much different stance on him if he resigned with them. He got his season cut short in his first year with the dodgers because a pitcher hit him in the wrist and shattered it( I think I later heard it was on purpose), but thats the type of thing that you can't really blame him to much on. With the cards though it really was another story. I can totally understand their anger and hate with him, because he really can be a captivating player to watch when he's on. Its just hes injured or nicked here and there ALL the fucking time.