What's the difference between ESTP and ESFP

[curiouscat]

I'm an ESTP according to the MBTI tool. Whenever I see the description I sort of agree with it. However,According to MBTI The difference between T and F is that T makes decisions based on logic and analysis and F based on values.

I find that definition difficult to understand because I definitely use my values in my decision making, I do care about how people feel and how they would be affected, I get upset by negative feedback, and I value true harmony.
( based on this I'm an F)

However, I do like equality, I think people should be treated fairly ( in a T way), I analyse the data available for making a decision, I do my pro and cons list to make a decision, and it needs to feel right. ( I'm mostly a t, but the decision is based on feeling right)

I value competence and recognition for my output rather than my effort. ( I'm a T)

This is a sweeping generalisation, but I find F avoid confrontation or conflict like the plague hoping it will go away ( searching for superficial harmony), they sweep conflict under the carpet and pretend is not there, and they seem to think there are no rules just exceptions.

So my questions are how do you differentiate between learned behaviour and true type, when they are so close? How do you experience the difference between t and f? How is the decision making for an F different from a T?
p.s. examples would be great I am an S.
Help!!!

[Eric B]

Well, looking at the cognitive processes (which are what the type code are really about; not just the letters themselves), the ESTP has tertiary extraverted Feeling, and that seems to match what you describe about considering others feelings, etc. Fe will not be as strong as for an FJ type (and it will actually be much higher than the ESFP, who actually prefers introverted Feeling). So you would prefer [introverted] Thinking (along with your lead, extraverted Sensing), and then the Feeling would come next, followed by [introverted] iNtuition.

Looking at it from the Interaction Styles model, both are extraverted, of course, but the EST is "role-directive" (more task oriented), while the ESF is role-informative (more people-oriented). With the ancient temperament names, an ESFP is a "pure Sanguine", while the ESTP is a "Choleric Sanguine". Similar in expressive behavior, but the ESTP is a bit more into goals. (because of the T preference).
You had said it right; T makes decisions based on logic and analysis and F based on values; but we all actually use all of them; just that the logic will come first for you, values will come first for others.

[proteanmix]

Yes, I'll agree with Eric B and say that the feeling you describe sounds like Fe which is tertiary in ETPs. Our tertiary and inferior functions have just as much influence over our personality as the dominant and auxiliary. We just don't feel as comfortable using those functions. They usually feel like something you can't help but to do even if you don't want to.

[Jack Flak]

The good news is, they're probably the two types most similar to one another. The bad news is, it can be hard to tell the difference.

[am_i_evil666]

I don't think they're the most similar 2 types. Really, I think the ESTP is much more alike the ENTJ. I don't find it so hard to tell the difference, in real life. It's harder on a forum though, cause you don't really get to know the person.

[Jack Flak]

Interesting. I usually just use the MEAN/NICE litmus test for ESTP/ESFP.

[me_plus_one]

Interesting. I usually just use the MEAN/NICE litmus test for ESTP/ESFP.

The ESFP might look nice, but at a closer look, you'd find out that he's even meaner than the ESTP.

[Jack Flak]

Looks are everything. *Top coat....Top hat...*

[booyalab]

I've never known an ESFP to be "nice". They're usually a simple and small-scale brand of mean. "OMG IM GONNA CHEAT ON MY BF CUZ BOYS R DUM LOL"

[Jack Flak]

But they're so friendly about it that everyone's "OK, teehee."

[edcoaching]

I'm an ESTP according to the MBTI tool. Whenever I see the description I sort of agree with it. However,According to MBTI The difference between T and F is that T makes decisions based on logic and analysis and F based on values.

I find that definition difficult to understand because I definitely use my values in my decision making, I do care about how people feel and how they would be affected, I get upset by negative feedback, and I value true harmony.
( based on this I'm an F)

However, I do like equality, I think people should be treated fairly ( in a T way), I analyse the data available for making a decision, I do my pro and cons list to make a decision, and it needs to feel right. ( I'm mostly a t, but the decision is based on feeling right)

I value competence and recognition for my output rather than my effort. ( I'm a T)

This is a sweeping generalisation, but I find F avoid confrontation or conflict like the plague hoping it will go away ( searching for superficial harmony), they sweep conflict under the carpet and pretend is not there, and they seem to think there are no rules just exceptions.

So my questions are how do you differentiate between learned behaviour and true type, when they are so close? How do you experience the difference between t and f? How is the decision making for an F different from a T?
p.s. examples would be great I am an S.
Help!!!

One of the ways is to think back to adolescence when theory says you would have been developing either T or F. Which came first?

It is more common for ESFPs to get blocked from learning in early years if they aren't sure a teacher likes them. Critique cuts to the quick and they may give up. ESTPs don't really like critique either but they aren't worried all the time about relationships...
ESTPs and ESFPs both want to DO things--be outside, run around, climb, etc. But ESTPs often want people along when they need them--for a team or to help row the boat or whatever. ESFPs are more about the relationships
You can think about whether adolescence was about critiquing life (what's wrong with everything) or inner reflection on authenticity (who you really wanted to be...). That is, if they sit still long enough...


I'm not trying to be superficial but instead give prompts that might help you think about whether T or F emerged first--which is nature vs learned skill...

[am_i_evil666]

I've never known an ESFP to be "nice". They're usually a simple and small-scale brand of mean. "OMG IM GONNA CHEAT ON MY BF CUZ BOYS R DUM LOL"


yeah, the esfps i know are all friendly, no matter if they like you or not. kind of hypocrites, be nice to you but talk behind your back......at least the estps don't make such an effort to make you believe they like you.

i'm not saying all the esfps are like that, only the ones i know.

[Rachelinpa]

yeah, the esfps i know are all friendly, no matter if they like you or not. kind of hypocrites, be nice to you but talk behind your back......at least the estps don't make such an effort to make you believe they like you.

i'm not saying all the esfps are like that, only the ones i know.

I would agree with that mostly. I've seen ESFPs give the cold shoulder though... very noticeably. I wouldn't think an ESTP would be so concerned with this.

In my experience, ESTPs do not bother putting on performances like the ESFP. ESFPs have to be the center of attention, whereas that does not seem to be the goal of the ESTP. It seems others are drawn to both personality extroverted types, but the ESFP cares or values it more than the ESTP.

[am_i_evil666]

I would agree with that mostly. I've seen ESFPs give the cold shoulder though... very noticeably. I wouldn't think an ESTP would be so concerned with this.

In my experience, ESTPs do not bother putting on performances like the ESFP. ESFPs have to be the center of attention, whereas that does not seem to be the goal of the ESTP. It seems others are drawn to both personality extroverted types, but the ESFP cares or values it more than the ESTP.

God, YES!!!

I can give an example of a real experience....there was this classmate of mine, an ESFP. She hanged out with almost everybody, including me and everytime she said things like "Oh, I like your bag, etc". I had the feeling that I got along pretty well with her, until one day that she included me on a list of persons she wouldn't like to be in class with. I was like "wtf, i thought you liked me". And then I found out how hypocritical she was. :shock:
I also know other ESFPs who are very friendly with people they don't really like.

[anii]

ESTPs are all takin' and ESFPs are all givin'.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

ESTPs are all takin' and ESFPs are all givin'.

Neither one wants to work 9 to 5. What a way to make a livin'.

[curiouscat]

Oh Boy, I'm really confused! It sounds like most of you think esfp are not truthful and hypocrites...

So how can you tell the difference between an f and and a t? if they both care about values?

[edcoaching]

Did you read my post up above? If you're trying to decide whether you're ESTP or ESFP it's the place to start. If you're trying to decide that about other people, it's really hard.

[563 740]

Interesting. I usually just use the MEAN/NICE litmus test for ESTP/ESFP.

I find the ASSHOLE/DOUCHEBAG litmus to be much quicker. :devil:

[htb]

One of my closest friends is an ESTP. I regard him as Han Solo did Lando Calrissian. Can I trust him? No, but we've faced naysayers, worked hard and succeeded together. I'm not a mark because I am a friend, and even ESTPs need a few.

ESFPs are shortchanged by one-dimensional type descriptions. They've got hearts of gold -- jaunty, sunny raconteurs, quite capable of solid reasoning and organized living. They would rather be a part than in the lead, and rather laugh than fuss.

[am_i_evil666]

Did you read my post up above? If you're trying to decide whether you're ESTP or ESFP it's the place to start. If you're trying to decide that about other people, it's really hard.

it's harder to decide what your own type is than other person's type. :run:

but to help the original poster, i have this unique system: :wubbie:
let's say it's your birthday. you receive a present from your friends, but you totally hate it. what do you do?
- ask them for the receipt in order to change it :newwink:
- say you totally love it, but hide it in the most remote corner of your home. :smoke:

[animenagai]

GOD would you guys please just STOP with the ESTP hate? there are plenty of good points for an ESTP, just because you guys happen to know some of the more annoying ESTP's shouldn't make you jump to that conclusion in general. why i find it pretty undesirable too. i treat everybody with respect so i really don't feel like i need to treat half the population with any sort of special treatment. this view is too often talked about on these forums.

[6sticks]

Oh Boy, I'm really confused! It sounds like most of you think esfp are not truthful and hypocrites...

So how can you tell the difference between an f and and a t? if they both care about values?
It's best to research it on your own and ignore the stereotype-spewing people here.

[edcoaching]

GOD would you guys please just STOP with the ESTP hate? there are plenty of good points for an ESTP, just because you guys happen to know some of the more annoying ESTP's shouldn't make you jump to that conclusion in general. why i find it pretty undesirable too. i treat everybody with respect so i really don't feel like i need to treat half the population with any sort of special treatment. this view is too often talked about on these forums.

Thank you for adding this. All types can be fabulous people and all types have a significant percentage of total jerks, in the unique jerkiness of that type...

This month I'm actually celebrating my 27th wedding anniversary with my ESTP spouse. ESTPs are just as likely to be gems as other types--although perhaps not quite as likely to be as self-righteous as some...:devil:

[am_i_evil666]

GOD would you guys please just STOP with the ESTP hate? there are plenty of good points for an ESTP, just because you guys happen to know some of the more annoying ESTP's shouldn't make you jump to that conclusion in general. why i find it pretty undesirable too. i treat everybody with respect so i really don't feel like i need to treat half the population with any sort of special treatment. this view is too often talked about on these forums.

God, people are making fun in here. :doh: ( at least, I was...) It's not like if you find out someone is ESTP, you treat him differently or you think he's an idiot just for being ESTP. Yes, there are ESTPs and ESFP full of wonderful qualities and also annoying ones, just like with any other type. :cheese: