Are strong "Thinkers" prone to being a risk to themselves?

[Beat]

Do you think so? Emotionally and mentally speaking, that is.

[Jack Flak]

In general, I don't think so. But STJs seem rather defenseless against strong emotions. They can do serious damage in short order.

[Anja]

Only when they tell me "You should. . ."

This is interesting. I'll think on it. INTP son, ISTJ husband.

On one site I read that ISTJs are prone to depression and I could see that.

Son has Social Anxiety Disorder.

[evan]

Strong thinkers or weak feelers?

[Beat]

You could probably present a case for either but strong Thinkers.

[kyuuei]

I heard on the radio today that study shows that thinking hard makes you fat. =( Im starting to think I can't trust the radio.

[Jack Flak]

I heard on the radio today that study shows that thinking hard makes you fat. =( Im starting to think I can't trust the radio.
LOL well as long as you're just starting to think, knock it off, you'll be fine.

[GZA]

I don't understand the question, what do you mean, Beat?

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Do you think so? Emotionally and mentally speaking, that is.

If they haven't developed much of a feeling function then I would say yes.

[heart]

They can be if they piss everyone else off through "no sympathy" and not making personal alliances but the then their own logic is not sound enough to keep them out of danger zones in their lives, people will be burnt out on them and in return not give them any sympathy or help them out.

In other words, if one is going to stand alone without personal alliances or sympathy for others, one must be damned sure they are capable of sailing the boat alone.

[evan]

A healthy strong thinker will acknowledge their feeling side. An unhealthy strong thinker won't. If you don't acknowledge your feeling side, you'll definitely be a risk to yourself.

Sounds simple, but that's really the only answer I can think of.

[Beat]

If they haven't developed much of a feeling function then I would say yes.

What about the whole internal feeling thing and not knowing how to express/vent properly? Or is this what you mean?

[ajblaise]

A healthy strong thinker will acknowledge their feeling side. An unhealthy strong thinker won't. If you don't acknowledge your feeling side, you'll definitely be a risk to yourself.

Sounds simple, but that's really the only answer I can think of.

What do you mean by "acknowledge their feeling side"? Especially in the context of the day-to-day life of a strong T. Also what would count as ignoring it?

[Beat]

I don't understand the question, what do you mean, Beat?
I'm not sure how to expound much further. :/

[evan]

What do you mean by "acknowledge their feeling side"? Especially in the context of the day-to-day life of a strong T. Also what would count as ignoring it?

Acknowledging your feeling side really means the same thing as using feeling.

Thinking about your values and factoring them into decision making is what a healthy Thinker should do. Otherwise, they'll just be surprised by their reactions to things.

[ajblaise]

Thinking about your values and factoring them into decision making is what a healthy Thinker should do

This is what any human being does.

Maybe do you have a more specific example of what you're talking about in mind?

[evan]

This is what any human being does.

Maybe do you have a more specific example of what you're talking about in mind?

That's unfortunately not what every human being does...

I dunno, think about repression. Something traumatic happens, and you push it down. You don't acknowledge the thing that happened when you're making decisions, therefore it will come out randomly when you don't expect it. It would be more healthy to acknowledge that there is work to be done about the emotional issue, and that full functioning is impossible before the event is processed.

[ajblaise]

That's unfortunately not what every human being does...

I dunno, think about repression. Something traumatic happens, and you push it down. You don't acknowledge the thing that happened when you're making decisions, therefore it will come out randomly when you don't expect it. It would be more healthy to acknowledge that there is work to be done about the emotional issue, and that full functioning is impossible before the event is processed.

Do you think F types are any more likely to want or to be able to deal with the negative emotions associated with traumatic events? Maybe the negative emotion could be too much for the F to handle, while the T might feel less of those negative emotions. If anything, it seems very strong F types will have more outbreaks and emotional problems with repressed memories.

However, maybe a T will be more likely to totally explode at one point, but since they are T, perhaps that can act as an advantage allowing them to look and deal with their issues from a detached, more objective standpoint

[kyuuei]

LOL well as long as you're just starting to think, knock it off, you'll be fine.

Wow, you're right! That was easy! Yay for blind loyalty!

[Bella]

They can be if they piss everyone else off through "no sympathy" and not making personal alliances but the then their own logic is not sound enough to keep them out of danger zones in their lives, people will be burnt out on them and in return not give them any sympathy or help them out.

In other words, if one is going to stand alone without personal alliances or sympathy for others, one must be damned sure they are capable of sailing the boat alone.

I agree with what you say, but this supposed lack of sympathy we have.....I don't know if it's sympathy, it might just be a lack of fussing. I don't even fuss over myself.....
I feel sorry for people, just not for very long.

[Bella]

In general, I don't think so. But STJs seem rather defenseless against strong emotions. They can do serious damage in short order.

Watcha mean? We become overwhelmed because we don't know what to do with them?

[Haphazard]

What is a 'strong thinker', exactly?

[entropie]

If you fail to deal with your primary emotions

whippersnapper..

[Jack Flak]

Watcha mean? We become overwhelmed because we don't know what to do with them?
I don't know if you know what to do with them or not, I just notice the results. Confusion, depression and/or rage.

[Bella]

I don't know if you know what to do with them or not, I just notice the results. Confusion, depression and/or rage.

There is actually quite a lot of that, yes.

[INTJMom]

Do you think so? Emotionally and mentally speaking, that is.Perhaps anyone can be a risk to themselves if their life is too severely out of balance.

[bluemonday]

What do you mean by "acknowledge their feeling side"?
Hehe! Classic T question.

Strong thinkers or weak feelers?

Same thing. Strongly differentiated thinking precludes the development of a mature feeling function, or so the books tell me.
Thinking seeks to eliminate personal values from the decision-making process, i.e. the opposite of what feeling seeks to do. Over time, this tends to lead to a dulling or weakening of the feeling process, an inability to recognize what one's values are in a given situation.

This is a problem for me. I find decision-making very difficult in my personal life, because from an objective stance it can be difficult to determine which outcome is more favourable. I can go through an endless iteration of "on the one hand, x, other the other hand, y, but on the other hand....". Is x > y? Sometimes, I have no idea if there are no objective criteria to guide me. When I finally make a decision, I always end up second-guessing myself and wondering if I've done the "right" thing and usually conclude I haven't. But I'm amost certain I would feel that way whatever I decided. I see this, along with weak rapport with others, to be major problems for the overly differentiated thinker.

The "danger" lies in making the "wrong" decision in important matters - i.e. the decision which doesn't accord with one's value system. Because the latter is there all the time, lurking in the shadows, and will leap out and bite you in the butt when you don't expect it. The trouble is, when I try to project myself into a future which is contigent on a certain choice, it (my internal value system) remains infuriatingly silent. The best analogy I can think of is: it's like a kid you ask if it wants to go to the zoo/park/cinema/whatever. The kid says, "Sure, why not?" but really he's tired and just wants to stay at home, but he doesn't know this, 'cos he's a kid. Then the minute you get to the zoo/park/cinema/whatever, he starts balling his eyes out and says he wants to go home. Bloody kids! That's why I don't have any.

Does anyone else identify with this? (not the paedophobia bit, the emotional-retard bit) How have you developed strategies to help with making the "right" decision?

[The_Liquid_Laser]

What about the whole internal feeling thing and not knowing how to express/vent properly? Or is this what you mean?

The effects of lack of feeling can express themselves in a variety of ways. This is how I am coming at it though:

Say you group people into four categories (like Jung): Thinkers, Feelers, Intuitives, and Sensors. I would say that the Feelers are the most likely to have a satisfying life. What is more is that each of the other three groups will increase their satisfaction if they can sufficiently develop their feeling function. This is because Man is inherently a social creature. People in general get a lot of satisfaction from their relationships and from living according to their values. Feelers are the most aware of this, and that is why I'd say they are most likely to have a satisfying life.

The flip side is that someone without a developed feeling function will become increasingly more dissatisfied with their life over time. This can manifest in a variety of ways anger, depression, addiction, materialism, etc.... However it manifests itself though, it won't be healthy. Overall I think it's important for everyone to develop their feeling function.

[Hmm]

I tested as a strong feeler and all I know is that I love strong thinkers. :wubbie::wubbie::wubbie:

I feel that they compliment me.

[LostInNerSpace]

Thinking tightropes is pretty scary sometimes. Makes me dizzy just thinking about thinking them.

[bluemonday]

I would say that the Feelers are the most likely to have a satisfying life.
Any Feelers care to disagree?

Man is inherently a social creature.

My man ain't.
"Inherently", asserts that there is something abnormal about being anti-social....hold on, so does "Anti-social"....it's a conspiracy, I demand a recount!


The flip side is that someone without a developed feeling function will become increasingly more dissatisfied with their life over time. This can manifest in a variety of ways anger, depression, addiction, materialism, etc....
I think this is at least as true for someone with an overly developed Feeling function. The only difference is, they don't even know why they are so dissatisfied ;)

Also:
Fe <> Fi (societal values vs. personal values)

blah, blah, blah

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Any Feelers care to disagree?

Well I am talking probability. So obviously there will be satisfied thinkers and unsatisfied feelers. :rolli: From articles I've read the professions that report the greatest amount of job satisfaction tend to be things like Nurse, Teacher, or Clergy. Professions that report the least amount of job satisfaction tend to be in technical fields like Engineering or IT. Obviously in the career world feelers have a big advantage over thinkers in being satisfied.

What is ironic is the work environment is supposed to be where thinkers thrive. If thinkers get less satisfaction from their careers as a whole, then what chance do they have in getting more satisfaction from their relationships?


My man ain't.
"Inherently", asserts that there is something abnormal about being anti-social....hold on, so does "Anti-social"....it's a conspiracy, I demand a recount!

It depends on what you mean by anti-social. (One definition is sociopath and that is bad. ;)) Some people prefer many relationships while others prefer few. Neither approach is better. However both are better than a person who has no relationships.

[Bufo]

Re: OP
Yes. Thinkers might be indecisive about certain things that strictly require a decision, but where the incipient decision is very likely to violate the existing harmony. If you act on it, you will endanger your peace that's needed to maintain your ability for thinking. If you don't, on the other hand, you are no longer honest to yourself, which again violates your principle.

[ajblaise]

I don't think F types are more likely to lead a more satisfying life.

According to Stoicism and Buddhism too I guess, T's would be more likely to lead the optimal life. It's about separating and detaching ourselves from desire. Freedom from negative emotion by the embracement of reason. I agree with some of Stoicism.

[Bella]

^How on earth do you get it right not to feel negative emotion? Isn't that just denial and won't you get sick?

[Eldanen]

Only when they tell me "You should. . ."

This is interesting. I'll think on it. INTP son, ISTJ husband.

On one site I read that ISTJs are prone to depression and I could see that.

Son has Social Anxiety Disorder.

People that say to me, "You should..." are really asking for it :P. I like it much better when someone presents to me cold distanced facts and lets me make up my own mind.

The thing about a strong T preference is that it does distance you from people and relationships which can act as a stabilizing point preventing someone from going out of balance. Without this equalizer where emotion is sorta shared and discharged among a group of people or between a couple close friends frequently, there is a situation where the T doesn't necessarily have what he needs to ground out that energy.

[Mycroft]

To advance an opposing view: The older I get, the more adept I grow at keeping my feelings in their proper place and allowing my head to guide my decision-making process. And, boy howdy, let me tell you, I'm making substantially better decisions in my life with each passing year. This has even been noticed and commented upon by other people of other types.

I've noticed a common inclination among people who've discovered MBTI is to try to use it to "juke" the mental system and try to "develop" other traits that are not typically developed by members of their type.

Feeling and Thinking in the Jungian model are at odds for a reason. What constitutes a satisfying outcome and life course for a T and an F are two rather different things. Put more simply: cognitive dissonance and a sound decision-making process are not good bedfellows.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

To advance an opposing view: The older I get, the more adept I grow at keeping my feelings in their proper place and allowing my head to guide my decision-making process. And, boy howdy, let me tell you, I'm making substantially better decisions in my life with each passing year. This has even been noticed and commented upon by other people of other types.

I've noticed a common inclination among people who've discovered MBTI is to try to use it to "juke" the mental system and try to "develop" other traits that are not typically developed by members of their type.

Feeling and Thinking in the Jungian model are at odds for a reason. What constitutes a satisfying outcome and life course for a T and an F are two rather different things. Put more simply: cognitive dissonance and a sound decision-making process are not good bedfellows.

So you left the wife and kids, then ditched all of your friends and that solved all of your problems? :huh:

I am saying that everyone should have a developed feeling function. I'm not saying that it should guide every decision.

[Haphazard]

I'm going to go ahead and say it.

This thread is very depressing.

[Mycroft]

So you left the wife and kids, then ditched all of your friends and that solved all of your problems? :huh:

Don't be absurd. I told them we were going to Disney Land and drove them off a pier.