Creating circumstances or created by them

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Oh, interesting. Now that I think about it, this really is the same as the Nature vs Nurture argument..

~Anyway.

I am interested to hear your thoughts on this. You can think of MBTI while answering this question I suppose.

Some people believe that our circumstances create us. We are molded from whatever events we experience in our lives and we adapt to future events accordingly. Thusly, we are our circumstances. Because we are shaped from them we can blame (or thank) the random cards we are given throughout our lives.

Sara is an average woman whose parents were very inefficient with money. Growing up she realized that she did not want to be like them. She finds herself today in a comfortable life and very financially comfortable. She believes that because she was placed in the situation she was in from her childhood, she was able to learn from it and become something beneficial..

Flip the token and you get another idea. We create our circumstances. Let me clarify: circumstances still happen but it is up to us to appraise them. Therefore our circumstances are what we make of them.

Lets use Sara again. She is still a studious woman who is good with money. But now she thinks that it was -her- that made her into the money savvy person she is and not the circumstance she was put in. Sara has a -sister- who was in the same situation as she was but she ended up being an airheaded artist who couldn't care less about money...let alone a stable living environment. Therefore these two people who were raised in the same environment turned out differently, all because individuals make their circumstances and not the other way around.

And then it can turn full circle.... Sara's sister turned out the way she did because she was younger and had an older sister who was taking charge of the families expenses so she didn't have to.. revalidating that circumstances create us.

So you see, both theories have some merit. Tell me: what do you guys think?

[Bella]

You use events/ outward circumstances as examples. This is hard as some people are in such a tight grip or vicious cycle, especially where money is concerned that it would feel wrong to say "You can make it never mind what, just get your act together, forget what life has thrown at you".
When it comes to what goes on inside, I really do believe that one can rise high, high above what circumstances you are in or have experienced in the past. It is a powerful and wonderful thing when it finally sinks in.

[kyuuei]

I sort of think they go hand-in-hand though. Taking my high-school career.. My parents needed my assistance, so my sisters were capable of doing whatever they liked and being much more "normal" teenagers without the responsibilities I was upholding.. I could have just as easily said I didn't feel like it, but I decided to create that circumstance.. because I created it, my sister's didn't learn the weight of responsibility early on like I did, thus when my younger sister is off on her own, her circumstances made her spoiled and unable to handle the harder things in life.. which makes me often having to go through and help her. I chose something, which made a reaction, which put me in that circumstance that shapes me.

So.. I guess in a way, both sides are seen because the choices you make create the circumstances that shape you?

[ajblaise]

Concerning nature vs nurture....nurture is a part of nature, it exists within it. So it's really a flawed concept.

[Bella]

Concerning nature vs nurture....nurture is a part of nature, it exists within it. So it's really a flawed concept.

Whatcha mean?

[Chris_in_Orbit]

You use events/ outward circumstances as examples. This is hard as some people are in such a tight grip or vicious cycle, especially where money is concerned that it would feel wrong to say "You can make it never mind what, just get your act together, forget what life has thrown at you".
When it comes to what goes on inside, I really do believe that one can rise high, high above what circumstances you are in or have experienced in the past. It is a powerful and wonderful thing when it finally sinks in.

Well I use outside circumstances for a reason. We have to get our circumstances from without and bring them within us. I wonder if the outside circumstance or the individual appraisal of it could be used to define the "self." Though I do get what you mean; what would you think of an internal circumstance? Like love perhaps? :wubbie:

I sort of think they go hand-in-hand though. Taking my high-school career.. My parents needed my assistance, so my sisters were capable of doing whatever they liked and being much more "normal" teenagers without the responsibilities I was upholding.. I could have just as easily said I didn't feel like it, but I decided to create that circumstance.. because I created it, my sister's didn't learn the weight of responsibility early on like I did, thus when my younger sister is off on her own, her circumstances made her spoiled and unable to handle the harder things in life.. which makes me often having to go through and help her. I chose something, which made a reaction, which put me in that circumstance that shapes me.

So.. I guess in a way, both sides are seen because the choices you make create the circumstances that shape you?

Yes, interesting. In the end which one influenced who you were? the circumstance of responsibility, or the choice to take on that circumstance? Its seems like a question you can't answer. Maybe they go hand in hand.

[ajblaise]

Whatcha mean?

Your nurturing, upbringing, your environment.... is all part of nature. Nature as in: The universe, everything, the natural world. Nurturing occurs within all that.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Concerning nature vs nurture....nurture is a part of nature, it exists within it. So it's really a flawed concept.

o_O Do we naturally exist and pass on genes in the expectation that our off spring will be nurtured in such a way as to continue to procreate?

I'm totally seeing your point on this one. :tongue: Like, if mothers didn't nurture a significant attachment to their babies then the baby would be unlikely to survive. Good call.

Now back on topic. xD

EDIT: Actually nature vs. nurture arguing is quite on topic so any further speculation is fine.

[Bella]

Well I use outside circumstances for a reason. We have to get our circumstances from without and bring them within us. I wonder if the outside circumstance or the individual appraisal of it could be used to define the "self." Though I do get what you mean; what would you think of an internal circumstance? Like love perhaps? :wubbie:



Yes, interesting. In the end which one influenced who you were? the circumstance of responsibility, or the choice to take on that circumstance? Its seems like a question you can't answer. Maybe they go hand in hand.

Oh, my non-abstract mind struggles so.....

But if you put it like that....o yes, circumstances define self but I think it's something that should be watched and controlled and sort of pushed in the right direction otherwise you'll start making excuses for who and what you are.
Love? huh?

[kyuuei]

Yes, interesting. In the end which one influenced who you were? the circumstance of responsibility, or the choice to take on that circumstance? Its seems like a question you can't answer. Maybe they go hand in hand.

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer. Sometimes I'd like to know if I'd turn out well without making that choice. In the end, I think circumstances shape us until we decide to take them in our own hands.

For example, something tragic happens. For a while, we're depressed or saddened, but eventually we make of it what we can and choose to move on despite the situation. I think we're too strong to be entirely controlled by circumstance.. but that we do let it guide us and wait until something happens that requires our attention.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Oh, my non-abstract mind struggles so.....

But if you put it like that....o yes, circumstances define self but I think it's something that should be watched and controlled and sort of pushed in the right direction otherwise you'll start making excuses for who and what you are.
Love? huh?

How would you definie yourself in terms of love? Are you who you are because of how you love or who you choose to love? Though this question is rather different from the original, I still want to know what you think of it.

[Lucifer]

Nothing controls us. We can learn or adopt a lifestyle from circumstance but it never truly controls us. People let themselves be controlled by it because it is easier then living without out it, with having to create your own circumstance. Circumstance is the largest excuse. If you are threaten with your life to do something, and you do it only to say "I had no choice, it was because of the situation, under the circumstances". This is wrong, This is letting yourself be controlled by circumstance because although your convictions are against it, you are not strong enough to create your own circumstance, to die, or get fired, break up with your better half, steal, dont steal and etc. Your personality created by circumstance is what someone tells themself to sleep easier or to get over a mistake or misdeed they have done.

[Bella]

How would you definie yourself in terms of love? Are you who you are because of how you love or who you choose to love? Though this question is rather different from the original, I still want to know what you think of it.

Uhm, I don't think so, love isn't a big part of my life....it's over theeeere. I could never use it as a definition for anything.

[kyuuei]

Uhm, I don't think so, love isn't a big part of my life....it's over theeeere. I could never use it as a definition for anything.

I'm such an idealist.. I put love on this great pedestal that I hope to build stairs to one day.

[Bella]

For real? Romantic love?

[Jack Flak]

I probably feel the same way as k. I can be happy without a killer career or a Ferrari, but I won't be satisfied until the "true love" thing works out, hopefully for more than a couple months the second time.

[kyuuei]

For real? Romantic love?

Yes, actually. I believe in it, albeit I also believe that it's not the center of everyone's life.. it's just one thing that could be. I've known plenty of people live just fine without it in their lives, but as for me I'd like to continue searching for it.

[Bella]

Yes, I do want it, but it's searching me, not I for it.

[Bella]

That was so corny, what I just said....

[kyuuei]

Lol! Corny is acceptable ^_^b

[Bella]

Lol! Corny is acceptable ^_^b

Thanks...you're kind. :blush:

[Bella]

I probably feel the same way as k. I can be happy without a killer career or a Ferrari, but I won't be satisfied until the "true love" thing works out, hopefully for more than a couple months the second time.

That's nice, from you...

[Jack Flak]

That's nice, from you...
I don't do "nice," I do true. Mhehe, but seriously, "nice...from you." isn't a very nice thing to say, is it?

[Bella]

Oh, no, it was a compliment.

[Jennifer]

Oh, interesting. Now that I think about it, this really is the same as the Nature vs Nurture argument..

Some people believe that our circumstances create us. We are molded from whatever events we experience in our lives and we adapt to future events accordingly. Thusly, we are our circumstances. Because we are shaped from them we can blame (or thank) the random cards we are given throughout our lives.

...

Flip the token and you get another idea. We create our circumstances. Let me clarify: circumstances still happen but it is up to us to appraise them. Therefore our circumstances are what we make of them....

The reason the argument "continues" is because it's both.

The paradigms are "ways of seeing" rather than exclusive truths.

When you look at the infamous silhouette, where you have to decide whether the shape is a woman or a duck, (or perhaps the other picture, where the subject is either an old crone or a young woman), you cannot say it is one or the other. As human beings, we usually only see one of the images at a time... but they're both superimposed on each other. They both exist at the same time, and we cannot be more specific.

Likewise, when you look at a gemstone, you cannot say the gemstone is one facet or another facet -- you can merely say it is a gemstone.

Likewise:
I create my circumstances.
I am created by my circumstances.
There is no either/or.
There is only "I."

...When it comes to what goes on inside, I really do believe that one can rise high, high above what circumstances you are in or have experienced in the past. It is a powerful and wonderful thing when it finally sinks in.

The bold part is what makes this work.

Sometimes I can change my external circumstances.
Sometimes I cannot (especially where the will of other people is involved -- we can't actually force anyone to choose to favor us).

All I change is how I view my circumstances and how I let them impact me.

Some people are in wonderful circumstances and yet are miserable.
Others are in miserable circumstances and yet act wonderfully.
We know which type we are attracted to more easily.
Which ones we would rather be.

It's because we are responsible for the things we can control.
The rest is a matter of perspective.

Put another way, how I see it is that we all start out in cages.
We think we're locked inside the cage and can't get out.
Actually, though, the cage is not locked at all.
We either tell ourselves it is, or we're scared to push open the door.

It's scary to be outside the cage.
There are no bars.
You can do anything -- ANYTHING -- you desire.
Which is terrifying because now you are totally responsible for your life.
You can't blame anyone else for how it turns out.
If you leave the cage, you might starve, or you might freeze, or you might swelter, or you might be assailed, or you might not get everything you want.
But you're free.
That's the plus.

And if you choose to step outside anyway, everyone else in their cages will yell at you and tell you that you're not allowed to do that.
They'll do everything in their power to get you to go back in, sit on the ground, and live in the cage like they are.
Because It scares them to see you free.
Because they realize they too could be free.
But they know at some level they're too scared to be free.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Jennifer!!...

Great insights indeed. I think thats all that I can say.

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Uhm, I don't think so, love isn't a big part of my life....it's over theeeere. I could never use it as a definition for anything.

Hah, I would love to see the day when someone sweeps you off your feet and you change your mind completly. :hug:

Nothing controls us. We can learn or adopt a lifestyle from circumstance but it never truly controls us. People let themselves be controlled by it because it is easier then living without out it, with having to create your own circumstance. Circumstance is the largest excuse. If you are threaten with your life to do something, and you do it only to say "I had no choice, it was because of the situation, under the circumstances". This is wrong, This is letting yourself be controlled by circumstance because although your convictions are against it, you are not strong enough to create your own circumstance, to die, or get fired, break up with your better half, steal, dont steal and etc. Your personality created by circumstance is what someone tells themself to sleep easier or to get over a mistake or misdeed they have done.

True, it usually is an excuse because its always easier to stay in a circumstance and take no responsibilities for it. In the end we have a good level of control whether we want to believe it or not: We can choose some of our circumstances and the rest we can choose how they affect us or change our perspective towards it.

On another note, I often see this debate become a little selfish. I feel like people who think they have bad lives often think they are a product of their circumstances while someone who is very well off would say that individuals create their circumstances. It all seems to come down to a self serving bias. We take credit when things go right and blame others when things do not.