Uh oh ... depression!

[takeheart]

Oh, yes, I'm sure this a topic NFs dread hearing about. You're probably groaning or rolling your eyes right now. But I need help!

NFs: What makes you sad? What makes you feel absolutely miserable? What could - or has - plunged you into depression?

I'm 19. I've had depression for several years, but I was only diagnosed two days ago because I finally sought help. I think I'm an ENFP and every test I take tells me so, but this illness has had such a warping effect on my personality and self-perception that I can only tell from comparing the type descriptions to how I act when I'm happy/when I'm being a clown to hide the problem. It's kind of hard to believe you're a bright, spontaneous fountain of humor and joy when you feel dead on the inside, y'know? I might be an INFP. Dunno! There's a lot of information about INFPs and depression, but none about ENFPs!

What could drive each type to despair, especially ENFPs?

[disregard]

A lack of regular meaningful accomplishment can send me into a downward spiral.

[Reisende]

I agree that a lack of accomplishments can lead to feeling down, even depression. And feeling depressed hides the ENFPs better qualities. I find on top a lack of professional accomplishments that a lack of social contact (having few friends) and trying to improve your life but still being in the same place brings me down. I do all the same things that work for other people but that doesn't give me the same success that they have. Without knowing what is bring you down I cannot say whether or not professional help will help; for my problems I would doubt it would. "Happy pills" are no the solution to having a life that lacks success and social contact. I have heard a lack of ideas/options (being stuck in a rut) and continuous rejection can lead an ENFP to depression. I am still trying to find a way out of that situation, so I cannot help with any ideas...

[phoenix13]

If you're torn between I/Enfp, I'd say you're 100% ENFP from your tone in this one post (we tend to be less social than most extroverts, so our "E" score tends to be lower). ENFPs also tend to be bipolar (not literally). You could describe it as shifting between Ne dominant hyper dude(ette) and Fi dominant existential angsty dude(tte)

The stuff that depresses me are: Boredom. Excess stress (there's a threshold beyond which I break down and become a vegetable). and....boredom. Really, if I don't have an outlet for my energy, I get depressed.

Oh yes, and welcome to MBTIc takeheart! :cheers:

[edcoaching]

We found some common patterns in what depresses ENFPs...

Having to face a big problem./tragedy alone
When some crisis forces them to focus on details and they lose track of what's important (might be finances in job loss for example)
When in spite of everything they try a relationship they value tanks
When a crisis throws them into a frenzy of activity and they completely overdo it, unaware of the Si lens of impact on their physical self
When they feel all out of options


Many ENFPs find they need to develop a meditative/yoga/retreat practice to recover. If they really feel out of options, they really need help from outside--not necessarily professional help but at least deep conversations with trusted friends or colleagues to get the thinking unstuck. Then self-care--healthy eating, walking or other exercise, massage, etc--are key to returning to balance.

[Into It]

I'm an ENFP with depression also. It doesn't "take anything" to "trigger" depression, I just wake up and go to bed unsatisfied. Like you, I have felt this way for many years. (Didn't you say that?) If your problem is severe, an antidepressant is an answer. If this is what your doctor recommends, you may find yourself fitting the ENFP description better..

[edcoaching]

I'm an ENFP with depression also. It doesn't "take anything" to "trigger" depression, I just wake up and go to bed unsatisfied. Like you, I have felt this way for many years. (Didn't you say that?) If your problem is severe, an antidepressant is an answer. If this is what your doctor recommends, you may find yourself fitting the ENFP description better..

Your perspective here is really key--ongoing dissatisfaction is great reason to seek professional help and antidepressants can help. But if ENFPs aren't constantly deluged in this way then there seem to be patterns to the triggers as well as patterns to the self-care one could try before--or with--medication.

[Peguy]

takeheart, I'm not an ENFP, but on so many levels I can relate to your situation. I constantly have to battle recurrent bouts of depression, and almost anything can trigger them. Certainly one trigger that has been bothering me lately is the frustration and exhaustion I receive from my line of work. Of course there's other factors as well, too many to list off hand.

I will agree with edcoaching that talking deeply about the issue with a trusted colleague helps big time. I've had plenty of experiences with ENFPs to know this, but it could easily apply to NF's in general. I know INFJs often need to vent about their problems in order to help get them of their chests.

All in all, be strong. Already there's quite a few people who have taken interest in your situation, and are willing to help. You can count me among them. :)

Being the Catholic that I am: I'll even be willing to say a prayer to Our Lady of Sorrows on your behalf, if you wish.

[Travo7]

Depression. Why do I suddenly feel at home? :cry:

Everything seems to be futile when depression is at it's worse, you know? It's as if the universe is in a constant degenerative downward spiral, where everything seems to be a vain struggle with decompostion/decay/destruction.

Personally, depression comes when there is too much stress in relationships, a tragic event (which may not be so tragic in reality), feeling completely misunderstood, having frustrated plans, and definitely when anxiety limits my ability to carry out my life goals/plans leaving me with a tremendous sense of meaningless/pointlessness.

I've been strugling with anxious depression for years. It's hard to know if the depression triggered the anxiety or vice versa.

God, this is a depressing post. :D

[edcoaching]

I will agree with edcoaching that talking deeply about the issue with a trusted colleague helps big time. I've had plenty of experiences with ENFPs to know this, but it could easily apply to NF's in general. I know INFJs often need to vent about their problems in order to help get them of their chests.


Yeah...INFJs are more likely to go to a stack of books or the Web to figure out a solution than to God forbid ask for help, and we don't quite always have the resources to solve it ourselves.

Work can easily overwhelm because we a)think everyone is on the same side and are jolted when that turns out not to be true and b) really think we can do something significant if we just keep at it...

[Peguy]

Yeah...INFJs are more likely to go to a stack of books or the Web to figure out a solution than to God forbid ask for help, and we don't quite always have the resources to solve it ourselves.

ROTFL! Yes that's my usual course of action when I'm depressed.

[kyuuei]

Sorry to hear about that, first of all.

I definitely had 2 points of time in my life where I was depressed. I can look back on them now and be able to tell.. I couldn't then. I probably would have saved myself a LOT of frustration and pain by reaching out for help, but as depression monsters tend to go, you're unaware you need help for a long time.. and aren't sure you're worth the effort to do so even if you discover it. So congrats on taking that step, it's an important one and there ARE people capable of building you up back up.

My depression was situational both times.. as in, something dramatic happened that forced me into it, it didn't grow on me overtime.. but sometimes I think the latter way might be worse.. there's nothing obvious and sudden to trigger it, so you're lost to any explanations or rationality as to why this or that is going on.

The good news is depression is definitely treatable, so I encourage you to reach out and seek support and continue to accept help.. there's no shame in being helped, and it took me a long time coming for my stubborn ass to learn that lesson. Just to know other people have gone through similar things and overcame them gives you a sense of hope.

Keep striving for it!

[takeheart]

Wow, thanks for all of the responses! I wasn't expecting so many so soon! :wubbie:

I ask what can "trigger" it because there was a point I hit a couple of years ago where all of my walls and facades crumbled and the depression began to seep in and slowly grow. I was completely unaware of it up to that point - I thought I was strong, confident, well-adjusted ... but I was just lying to myself.

The "trigger" was the realization that I'm a complete doormat, that I can't overcome it, and that I couldn't stop anyone from being bad. That I was powerless in the face of selfishness and cruelty. That I couldn't be Superwoman. That screwed me up SO BADLY that I'm sure a non-Idealist would think I was pathetic, but it's true!

Then it was compounded by a lack of achievement and real knowledge of what I'm capable of. I've done nothing, so I guess I'm capable of nothing right now. I want to be special. I want to stand out. I want attention and I want to feel valuable and important! And that's really the crux of it - I want to be liked, I want to be popular, I want to have best friends and I want to feel like people care about me. I'm not getting that right now, and it makes me feel like maybe ... I don't really exist. I'm an outsider looking in and that will never be enough. Loneliness is what finally drove me to a place where I knew I needed help.

So I feel like I'm wasting my life and have yet to actually do anything, least of all plunge in and actually live a meaningful life. I may be 19, but most 13 year olds have lived more than I have! :cry:

These are the thoughts that I batter myself with when I can't get out of of my own head.

Thanks for your concern, everyone. And I hope all of you who are also stuck in the abyss find your way out soon - or find someone to lift you out. :heart:

[SuperFob]

I've been depressed for a while. That's bad because I'm a guy who uses inspiration as a fuel, and it's hard to feel inspired when you're depressed.

Why am I depressed? It's pretty complicated and I don't feel like listing all the details. Let's just say that my life has been a constant whirlwind of failure, disappointment, and me doing what other people tell me to. The constant stress of school and loneliness over the past few years finally pushed me off the cliff.

[Jack Flak]

Gadammit, I hate it when ENFs are sad. *destroys the room* :D

[SuperFob]

Yeah...INFJs are more likely to go to a stack of books or the Web to figure out a solution than to God forbid ask for help, and we don't quite always have the resources to solve it ourselves.
That's been pretty much the only solution for me. With the exception of certain NF's (of whom I've only really met a couple, both psychologists, who are trying to help me out right now), people in general can't understand my feelings when I reveal them. Any NT I talk to either acts like I'm making a big deal out of nothing, refusing to believe that I can react the way I do emotionally to certain things, or they act like my emotions are something that can be controlled and switched on and off like the lights in my house. When it comes to the S's I've met and tried to talk to, they simply don't have the capacity to understand my situation.

So, I've mostly tried to just deal with things on my own :cheese:

[kyuuei]

Well Takeheart. I would have told you that I spent a great deal of my life not living it, something I take pride in ammending everyday, and that now you see the problem the only plausible step is a solution.. but *Somebody* destroyed the room.

[Jack Flak]

but *Somebody* destroyed the room.
It was well-intentioned.

[Nighthawk]

I'm an INTP who has suffered from depression on and off. Sometimes quite badly. Most of mine hinges around the mundane repetition in life and job ... hence my desire to mix things up and job-hop a lot. I'm usually energized and happy the first year or so in a job. Then it all becomes a repetitive chore and I sink into depression ... especially when management tries to enforce schedules and arbitrary rules.

I just came off of 3 years on cymbalta, and have been struggling to stay on an even keel. I tend to self-medicate with alcohol, so I have to be careful there. So far, it is working out better than I expected. I'd like to remain off of anti-depressants for good, since I'm already taking meds for various other ailments.

I wish I had the magic answer, but I don't. Sometimes you can overcome it through sheer force of will alone. Sometimes a change of environment helps. Sometimes, however, I feel that pharmaceutical intervention is necessary for the more serious cases. I know that is probably controversial, but it is just my personal view.

[takeheart]

It was well-intentioned.

I hope you left at least one dark corner for us all to cry in! :banana2:

[phoenix13]

I hope you left at least one dark corner for us all to cry in! :banana2:

I love how happy ENFPs can sound when they're sad. It's like there's a block to expressing the deeper darker emotions... like a deep deep lake hidden beneath a layer of ice, cold and black like my soul. Ooooo, so emo :emot-emo:

[takeheart]

I love how happy ENFPs can sound when they're sad. I'm not being sarcastic. It's like there's a block to expressing the deeper darker emotions... like a deep deep lake hidden beneath a layer of ice, cold and black like my soul. Ooooo, so emo :emot-emo:

When I feel like crying, I turn the sobs into laughter. There's definitely a block and trying to circumvent it is almost physically painful. I mean, I'd try to tell people, "Hey, I'm drowning in the depths of depression! My heart is like a singed and scarred rose shriveling in the face of winter's malicious, icy blasts! My soul is like an empty glass in the rain, tears of eternal despair sliding hopelessly down its cracked sides like rain on a windowpane in a monsoon!" but my vocal chords would lock up! I couldn't speak!

I managed to choke out, "I don't feel well." AND THEN I RAN AWAY.

Humor's really the only acceptable response to anything, and acting like a clown really helps drown out all of dark crap churning inside.

[Lizzy1813]

I just don't understand what triggers me off into depression most of the time--that's what makes it so irritating!!! Or if I do figure it out, it's something stupid that shouldn't make me upset...but it does.

[Reisende]

Well takeheart at least you know you are far from alone. Hope all this is helping. We all have to find our own way out of our problems. We're all too different for there to be one quick fix. Perhaps the best advice to find someone to confide in, which I believe you are doing. Just hang in there! Don't let the lack of achievements get you down; you are still too young to worry about such things. You are perfectly fine the way you are.

[entropie]

Well takeheart at least you know you are far from alone. Hope all this is helping. We all have to find our own way out of our problems. We're all too different for there to be one quick fix. Perhaps the best advice to find someone to confide in, which I believe you are doing. Just hang in there! Don't let the lack of achievements get you down; you are still too young to worry about such things. You are perfectly fine the way you are.

great nickname, btw. :)

[OneWithSoul]

It seems that there's always a time during the day when I feel depressed..almost everyday I'll have a low..I just get thinking about things and my emotions take me..but it happens more frequently now that I'm getting older. I don't think it's depression though, because I don't feel depressed all of the time..sometimes I can be in a state of extreme bliss..just really tasting everything that's good in life..and I just sit there..think about what will happen to me in years to come, and I just know..I just know that things will turn out right..no matter what happens, I'll always have my center, I'll always be headed in the right direction, and that the lows that I feel are simply their to build my emotion, and the more I feel, the stronger grows my soul!

[Reisende]

great nickname, btw. :)

Danke schon.

[Peguy]

takeheart I'll respond to your other post later. Right not I'm preoccupied.

[Peguy]

Takeheart, you have my sympathies in regards to the pain you're feeling; because at numerous times in my life I've felt the same way. So don't think you're alone in dealing with these issues. Also take into account that you're at the age when many people face severe Existential crisis in their lives. And I say this as somebody who's only a few years older than you.


The "trigger" was the realization that I'm a complete doormat, that I can't overcome it, and that I couldn't stop anyone from being bad. That I was powerless in the face of selfishness and cruelty. That I couldn't be Superwoman. That screwed me up SO BADLY that I'm sure a non-Idealist would think I was pathetic, but it's true!

Then it was compounded by a lack of achievement and real knowledge of what I'm capable of. I've done nothing, so I guess I'm capable of nothing right now. I want to be special. I want to stand out. I want attention and I want to feel valuable and important! And that's really the crux of it - I want to be liked, I want to be popular, I want to have best friends and I want to feel like people care about me. I'm not getting that right now, and it makes me feel like maybe ... I don't really exist. I'm an outsider looking in and that will never be enough. Loneliness is what finally drove me to a place where I knew I needed help.

Well this seems to be a classic case of Despair to be oneself. That is you try so hard to be the person you want to be, but feel depressed when you realize you're not really that person. One of the great keys in life is to be the person you really are, not the person you want to be.

Part of the problem as I see it is your obsession with being "special" and being the center of attention. Since you're not "special" in the way you think you should be, nor not the center of attention - you feel that you're worthless as a person. That really isn't true, and perhaps you need to re-examine your perspectives on your life personally and life in general. For one thing, your self-image seems to be based too much on vanity.

A nice dosage of humility might do wonders for you. With humility, there's only one place to go and that's up. With vanity, it's the opposite, you can only go down. As the saying goes: Angels fly because they take themselves lightly. Humble yourself, so that you may ultimately be exalted.

In order to be loved by others, one must first be lovable. And that means being able to love yourself for who you really are.


So I feel like I'm wasting my life and have yet to actually do anything, least of all plunge in and actually live a meaningful life. I may be 19, but most 13 year olds have lived more than I have! :cry:

Again I can sympathise. I can only say that your life is your life, and you must come to terms with it. You can't help what others have done, you can only help what you do. Living life being envious of others is no way to live. Be thankful for what you have already, and what you have already done.

As for other people; St. Paul probably provides the best of advice: "Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another." (Romans 12:15-16)

With that, friendship and companionship should surely follow in your wake.

That's all I have to say for now. I hope I've been of some help to you. If you want, I'm more than willing to continue this discussion in private.

Take care of yourself. :hug:

[takeheart]

Well this seems to be a classic case of Despair to be oneself. That is you try so hard to be the person you want to be, but feel depressed when you realize you're not really that person. One of the great keys in life is to be the person you really are, not the person you want to be.

The old Idealized Self vs. Despised Self. Would you really be surprised to hear that my Enneagram type is 4? Existential crises and envy are a way of life for me. ;)

Part of the problem as I see it is your obsession with being "special" and being the center of attention. Since you're not "special" in the way you think you should be, nor not the center of attention - you feel that you're worthless as a person. That really isn't true, and perhaps you need to re-examine your perspectives on your life personally and life in general. For one thing, your self-image seems to be based too much on vanity.

It's not vanity. Trust me, I don't have even the tiniest bit of potential for vanity. The need for attention and external validation = trying to get the thing I've never had that seems to make everyone around me so happy. And being the center of attention is how I force myself to leave my own head and lock the door behind me for a while (a reprieve I'm always desperate for). Those feelings didn't even manifest until I was a few years into depression. They're not the core of it.

Anyway, the point of this was trying to confirm my type through all of the Sturm und Drang. I think I got it! :O

[LavaLucy]

Sometimes I get frustrated too.. trying to be I guess someone ideal in my mind..obviously I can't pull it off and it's taken me a while to realise that I suppose. Sometimes I can't stop trying though for better or worse.

And I can DEFINITELY relate to wanting to be appreciated. When I'm upset/depressed already over something I usually can't help but wind back at the Nobody loves me stage however silly that might sound. Obviously a lot of people care, I wonder why it's just so hard to feel it! !!!!
I hope you feel better soon :hug: (go team)

[Peguy]

The old Idealized Self vs. Despised Self. Would you really be surprised to hear that my Enneagram type is 4? Existential crises and envy are a way of life for me. ;)p

No, in fact that was one of my first impressions upon reading your posts. And I say this as a fellow Enneagram 4. ;)

Yes, they can be a way of life for us - and that's why I usually say they represent perennial challenges. That is, we need to overcome those tendencies as much as possible, but with the realistic perspective they're never going to completely go away. That way, we don't have to beat ourselves up when we falter now and then.



It's not vanity. Trust me, I don't have even the tiniest bit of potential for vanity.

Well usually when people wish to be the center of attention, it's an issue of vanity. That's why I stated that.


The need for attention and external validation = trying to get the thing I've never had that seems to make everyone around me so happy.

Well of course, it's natural to desire external validation. Im sure this is especially true for you because you're an extrovert. But even as an Introvert with Fe, I often like to connect with others. So yes I sympathise.

[Neo Genesis]

NFs: What makes you sad? What makes you feel absolutely miserable? What could - or has - plunged you into depression?

Frustration with myself and those around me. You see, in my mind there is this ideal of who I aim to be, and whenever I can't act accordingly, it seems to trigger a deep, melancholy feeling within me. Honestly, I set a very high bar for myself. With other people, its more a sadness that most only care about trivial goals, i.e. getting drunk this weekend, or hooking up with a different girl each night. That also depresses me a bit.

Well this seems to be a classic case of Despair to be oneself. That is you try so hard to be the person you want to be, but feel depressed when you realize you're not really that person. One of the great keys in life is to be the person you really are, not the person you want to be.

Damn this sounds like me. Too stubborn to quit, though.

[Dwigie]

Frustration with myself and those around me. You see, in my mind there is this ideal of who I aim to be, and whenever I can't act accordingly, it seems to trigger a deep, melancholy feeling within me. Honestly, I set a very high bar for myself. With other people, its more a sadness that most only care about trivial goals, i.e. getting drunk this weekend, or hooking up with a different girl each night. That also depresses me a bit.



Damn this sounds like me. Too stubborn to quit, though.

same here my friend, same here:yes:

[Lalaru]

Thinking about the universe makes me feel depressed. I feel worthless and that everything I do is pointless ( well, it is. :\). What's the point? I ask myself that question everyday. What is the point? If only there was a pill that could cure me of that question. I just feel so detached from people and society sometimes. I always ask myself those questions people tell me have no answers. People make me sad sometimes, but I am closed off from most of them so I don't really have to bother with that set of trivialities. :P

[Neo Genesis]

Thinking about the universe makes me feel depressed. I feel worthless and that everything I do is pointless ( well, it is. :\). What's the point? I ask myself that question everyday. What is the point? If only there was a pill that could cure me of that question. I just feel so detached from people and society sometimes. I always ask myself those questions people tell me have no answers. People make me sad sometimes, but I am closed off from most of them so I don't really have to bother with that set of trivialities. :P

You'd lose so much more than just that question. I've been through that phase. Even if all of our actions are pointless, it doesn't change the fact that our choices impact the lives of everyone around us. To me, these connections are the meaning of life. So, even though I disagree with the morals of many of my peers, I'm still determined to forge relationships with those people.

[GZA]

A lack of regular meaningful accomplishment can send me into a downward spiral.
Me too. The old saying that keeping busy is the key to happiness is absolutely true. If I can't have something I'm dedicated too, that I work hard on, and that I accomplish things with, I will feel like crap. It's an addiction, it's as much part of my mental sanity as anything. For me it's music, and if I can't think about music and try to make something on a daily basis I'll start to get stressed out and I'll even get headaches sometimes. I honestly can't imagine how fucked I'd be if I didn't have hobbies that I am always passionate about. I think thats a good place to start, finding soemthing that can occupy you're thoughts, where you can learn, that no one can take away from you.

Even if our universal, cosmic existence is insignificant and meaningless, doesn't mean we can't feel happy and kick some ass while we're still here.

But I'm slightly younger then you so maybe I'll hit a brick wall...

[placebo]

When I feel 'stuck' in a situation I can't handle, and I become frustrated and depressed. When I feel far from what I want and what I think I'd be comfortable with. I think that's basically it. Also when I feel really really tired or in some sort of pain, but I think that is sort of all tied in with each other.