Presidential Debate 2008 Reviews

[Jen]

September 27th 2008 9:00 pm

Watching now. McCain is blinking a lot and smirking. What's so funny?

[Jack Flak]

Highlights please. *contemplates existence instead of watching*

[BryNTP]

One: I know you are but what am I?
Other: I am rubber you are glue...

[Jen]

Right now Obama is kicking some old saggy ass.

[Jack Flak]

*lulz* I do so love the irrelevant age attacks. *ascends to higher plane*

[Jen]

"Festooned with Christmas tree ornaments" <--- McCains example of an energy bill.

[Jack Flak]

Energy bill? *walkin' from planet to planet, bathin' in starlight, and feelin' like I may not die*

[heart]

I already picked the lesser evil I intend to go with, have no interest in watching the debates. Will spend this Friday night as I do most Friday nights, studying 18th century history and mindlessly checking into this board and doing housework.

[Udog]

Economic portion was worthless. Debate on the topic of the war is much more interesting so far.

[Enyo]

Right now Obama is kicking some old saggy ass.

I'm not seeing this beat down, Jen.

Are you watching it on CNN? If so, then notice the "audience reaction" graph at the bottom of the screen. You'll notice that the audience reaction at the bottom go almost entirely along partisan lines. The only time either of them get universal approval is if they talk about reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

[Jack Flak]

The only time either of them get universal approval is if they talk about reducing our dependence on foreign oil.
*approving hoots and hollers*

[DigitalMethod]

I was watching CNN.
Then right before the debate, they were saying how Kennedy was out of the hospital.
Then the debate started and McCain was saying how he wishes Kennedy better because he is in the hospital.
Heh, I thought it was funny...
Doesn't that guy have a Blackberry or something?

[Haight]

Figures . . . no one invited Nader. :rolli:

[Jack Flak]

Re: Kennedy comment: I think it was a veiled insult.

[Enyo]

Re: Kennedy comment: I think it was a veiled insult.

Doubt it. McCain-Kennedy Bill, remember? The two worked well together.

However, watching it right now, McCain stumbled over the pronunciation of Ahmadinejad, and corrected himself with some embarrassment. Obama shook his head with a "you've got to be fucking kidding me" look.

And when Obama said that Ahmadinejad wasn't the most powerful person in Iran, McCain got a "you've got to be fucking kidding me" look.

[Jack Flak]

*contemplates the usefulness of subtle humor*

[DigitalMethod]

Re: Kennedy comment: I think it was a veiled insult.

Nah I can't even vote.
I just thought it was funny, if anyone did it..
Sigh.

But yeah, it's basically just,
"Yo he said this and sucks for it."
"Nuh uh, I didn't say that, but you said this."
"Nuh uh."
"Yuh huh."
:rolli:

[Enyo]

*contemplates the usefulness of subtle humor*

Sorry, Jack. Sometimes subtle fails over the 'net since I don't get to hear your voice or see your face when you say it.

[DigitalMethod]

Sorry, Jack. Sometimes subtle fails over the 'net since I don't get to hear your voice or see your face when you say it.

Seconded.

[Udog]

I was more amused by Obama screwing up Tim Jim John McCain's name.

[Enyo]

Holy fuck. McCain just nailed the Russian matter. And is doing way better than Obama is doing with his commentary.

I loved McCain's commentary of when he looked in Putin's eyes, he saw 3 letters.

[Edahn]

I think McCain dominates Obama in the way that Ceasar Milan dominates people's dogs. It's really a shame because it fucks with his debate. I think Obama gets the bigger picture and is definitely more of a Maverick than McCain. McCain seemed angry and hostile, Obama reconciling. I wonder what's a better quality in a President. It's not totally obvious to me, although I'll still vote for Obama.

[Jen]

I can't help but wonder if it's an intuitive thing? I am right there with Obama heading forward. McCain mentioned the past each time he spoke and I am more interested in the future. McCain was trying so hard to make sure we don't forget he's old by quoting and mentioning Ronald Reagan.

Just because you're been doing a job longer doesn't mean you're more qualified.

When listening to McCain a quote from Planes, Trains and Automobiles sprang to mind. "Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener!"

[Peguy]

Holy fuck. McCain just nailed the Russian matter. And is doing way better than Obama is doing with his commentary.

I loved McCain's commentary of when he looked in Putin's eyes, he saw 3 letters.

I didnt see the debate, so what was his take? Honestly when it comes to Russia, our leaders still think the Cold War is going on.


I can't help but wonder if it's an intuitive thing? I am right there with Obama heading forward. McCain mentioned the past each time he spoke and I am more interested in the future. McCain was trying so hard to make sure we don't forget he's old by quoting and mentioning Ronald Reagan.

Just because you're been doing a job longer doesn't mean you're more qualified.

With age often comes wisdom and experience. Not saying McCain posesses those necessarily, just speaking in general. Yet very often in order to truely move into the future, one must know where one is moving from - ie the past. Only by understanding the past, can one better prepare for and anticipate the future.

As I've mentioned numerous times before, Obama doesn't represent that much change from what we've had for the past 50 years or so. Somebody mentioned his intentions to talk to our enemies. Ok we did that in the 1970's under Detente, not to mention opening up to Mao's China about 20 years after fighting them in the Korean War. At best Obama represents change in tactics, not overall strategy. Neither candidate stands for that!

[Jack Flak]

I can't help but wonder if it's an intuitive thing? I am right there with Obama heading forward. McCain mentioned the past each time he spoke and I am more interested in the future.
I won't use this opportunity to get into some retarded debate, but yes, that's it. The way I see it, and as I and Enyo recently alluded to in another thread, is that Obama has dreams, and that and a nickel'll get you a hot cup o' JACK...SQUAT. That's all.

[IlyaK1986]

Bleh is all I can say. This is why we shouldn't have gone on the ground into Iraq in the first place, but I'm with McCain on that one even though I otherwise like Obama. We have to win there and can't just pull out without conditions on the ground being a concern.

That said...

The next time there's an international conflict, we have F-22s and F-35s. Radar doesn't see them, so we can load them up with the most powerful weapons we can internationally muster and flatten places without having to send troops and get bogged down.

[Enyo]

I didnt see the debate, so what was his take? Honestly when it comes to Russia, our leaders still think the Cold War is going on.

Obama had made a crack about W's comment (when he "looked in Putin's eyes" he "saw a friend"). McCain said when he looked in Putin's eyes, he saw 3 letters: K... G... B... It was bringing up Russia's energy dollars, Russia's invasion of Georgia, etc. McCain had a good bit, and Obama just agreed with him.

[IlyaK1986]

This whole bullshit on Russia is both men, but McCain especially--acting like a toothless dog.

Our economy just had its air knocked out of it with Paulson trying his hardest to pump air back in. We're tied down in two violent nations. So what the hell are we going to do about Russia?

NOTHING if we're smart.

Russia as a superpower is not going to try and take over the world. It won't try to take on the USAF. Putin is doing what he's doing now because he knows we're tied up. Once we get out of Iraq and win in Afghanistan, Putin's going to stop the roflsoxing.

[Jen]

I won't use this opportunity to get into some retarded debate, but yes, that's it. The way I see it, and as I and Enyo recently alluded to in another thread, is that Obama has dreams, and that and a nickel'll get you a hot cup o' JACK...SQUAT. That's all.I'm having a difficult time understanding why an intuitive thinker would not see that McCain is another Bush. If you like Bush, then by all means vote for McCain.

[Peguy]

Obama had made a crack about W's comment (when he "looked in Putin's eyes" he "saw a friend"). McCain said when he looked in Putin's eyes, he saw 3 letters: K... G... B... It was bringing up Russia's energy dollars, Russia's invasion of Georgia, etc. McCain had a good bit, and Obama just agreed with him.

Yes, that's the kind of asinine shit I was talking about. McCain supported the invasion of Iraq, yet bitches about Russia doing the same to Georgia. Of course let's not forget that Russia warned about the possibility of war with Georgia over South Ossetia if a precedent was set with Kosovo's indenedence(which we supported).

In other words: if America does it, it's perfectly alright. If Russia does the same, well freedom around the world is at risk. :rolli:

[Peguy]

I'm having a difficult time understanding why an intuitive thinker would not see that McCain is another Bush.

And Obama is significantly different how exactly? I have yet to hear anybody explain this to me.

[Enyo]

Yes, that's the kind of asinine shit I was talking about. McCain supported the invasion of Iraq, yet bitches about Russia doing the same to Georgia. Of course let's not forget that Russia warned about the possibility of war with Georgia over South Ossetia if a precedent was set with Kosovo's indenedence(which we supported).

In other words: if America does it, it's perfectly alright. If Russia does the same, well freedom around the world is at risk. :rolli:

1.) Georgia is a democracy, so invasion is bad.
2.) Russia has a whole fucking lot of oil and is using this to effect Europe, so Russia is bad.

That's pretty much the nutshell. BTW, both candidates had the same attitude towards Russia. They aren't the enemy again, yet, but the potential certainly does exist.

[Peguy]

1.) Georgia is a democracy, so invasion is bad.
2.) Russia has a whole fucking lot of oil and is using this to effect Europe, so Russia is bad.

That's pretty much the nutshell. BTW, both candidates had the same attitude towards Russia. They aren't the enemy again, yet, but the potential certainly does exist.

Yes I'm aware of this. I've been following this stuff for eight years about.

[Jen]

And Obama is significantly different how exactly? I have yet to hear anybody explain this to me.
Well gee, I guess to start with Obama is a liberal and McCain is and old school conservative. Obama is for the middle class and everything below and McCain is for big business and people who earn more than 260,000 per year.

What I can't understand is why you need this explained to you?

[Jack Flak]

Soviet Russia was supposed to be for the proletariat as well, look where it got them.

Dream - Proper Mechanism = FAIL

[Peguy]

Well gee, I guess to start with Obama is a liberal and McCain is and old school conservative.

McCain is not an old school conservative, he's a Neo-Conservative. Of course to fully explain this would mean having to give a lecture about American political developments of the last 50 years - which I'm not in the mood to do at the moment.

Obama being a liberal......well I guess by what we usually call liberal. Since in many ways, the governing philosophy of American society is Liberalism anyways(contrast to the "Republican" tradition that governed prior to the Civil War, as Sandel termed it), and basically Democrats and Republicans both agree on basic Liberal concepts, only differing on specific policies on fufilling those concepts.

For one thing; neither party or candidate challenge the fundamental legitimacy of the welfare system governing us. In terms of foreign policy, both agree on the same grand strategy - promoting American predominance in the world. Only difference is the specific tactics they propose to achieve that end. Obama is in favor of more diplomacy, McCain less so.

But being in favor of more diplomacy isn't new in American geopolitics. As I stated elsewhere, if anything this has happened several times before. Talking to Iran and North Korea seem to be a reversion back to Detente with the Soviet Union and opening relations with Maoist China during the 1970's.

In the grand scheme of things, Obama isn't proposing anything new. He's simply rehashing policies that have been done before, and rehashing universalist rhetoric that had it's birth in the Cold War. You could say that Obama wants a more carrot version of the Bush doctrine.

In domestic affairs, he simply wants to further expand the welfare state we've been living under since FDR's New Deal in the 1930's. Nothing special there.

What I can't understand is why you need this explained to you?

Well I need this explained to me because quite honestly, I fail to see any real significant difference between Obama and McCain; much less the Republicans and Democrats.

[heart]

Well put, Peguy. :)

[evan]

I definitely thought Obama out-debated McCain, seemed like a traditional N vs. S thing.

But I pretty much hate both of them.

Boo, this is why I never pay attention to politics. It's such bullshit. I'll probably vote for Obama I guess, but shit, I'm not expecting much.

[Jack Flak]

I definitely thought Obama out-debated McCain, seemed like a traditional N vs. S thing.

McCain is INTP! Obama is ENFJ!

[Usehername]

I only saw a snippet of it, but McCain (speaking on Russia) really didn't seem to be the poor orator that people make him out to be. He's no ENFJ Obama, clearly, but I thought he spoke well.

[Jeffster]

What I can't understand is why you need this explained to you?

MAYBE HE IS NOT YET ASSIMILATED.

HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OUR HOPE AND CHANGE ARE BELONG TO OBAMA.

OBAMABOTS - SURROUND!!!!

[AllAboutSoul]

I loved McCain's commentary of when he looked in Putin's eyes, he saw 3 letters.

I'm surprised he saw Putin's eyes, he sure as hell couldn't look into Obama's. He wouldn't look at him at all, was he afraid he'd have to look up to him? (McCain's quite a bit shorter) That was very condescending and arrogant. Of course, he did similar with Romney, (being condescending and arrogant, that is) drove Romney nuts. Obama didn't lose his composure though.

[Jack Flak]

Every INFJ here who I've noticed a political persuasion of has been religiously pro-Obama. Something to it, perhaps.

OK not Peguy, and I KNOW there are others, just a trend.

[evan]

McCain is INTP! Obama is ENFJ!

Really? McCain seemed to debate in STJ fashion.

Meh. I thought he sucked.

Obama was clearly better at debating, but war war war, fuck that shit.

Every INFJ here who I've noticed a political persuasion of has been religiously pro-Obama. Something to it, perhaps.

OK not Peguy, and I KNOW there are others, just a trend.

Whatever, fuck Obama.

[DigitalMethod]

I think we should just clone Franklin, or Jefferson... :coffee:

[Usehername]

Really? McCain seemed to debate in STJ fashion.

Meh. I thought he sucked.

Obama was clearly better at debating, but war war war, fuck that shit.

His voters will be the xSxJ Republicans, so he's using his Ne to make the SJs comfortable.

[Jeffster]

Every INFJ here who I've noticed a political persuasion of has been religiously pro-Obama. Something to it, perhaps.
.

They needed someone to follow after the Movementarians' spaceship collapsed.

[Peguy]

McCain is INTP! Obama is ENFJ!

Im conflicted. :confused:

[Jack Flak]

I think we should just clone Franklin, or Jefferson... :coffee:
Franklin or Jefferson would dismantle the government and start from scratch.

[Peguy]

Every INFJ here who I've noticed a political persuasion of has been religiously pro-Obama. Something to it, perhaps.
Hey.....what the fuck dude!?!?!?!?!

oh....wait

OK not Peguy, and I KNOW there are others, just a trend.

:tongue:

[DigitalMethod]

Really? McCain seemed to debate in STJ fashion.

Si? Maybe he was stressed?

[DigitalMethod]

Franklin or Jefferson would dismantle the government and start from scratch.

And who said that was a bad idea? ;)

[Enyo]

Franklin or Jefferson would dismantle the government and start from scratch.

I don't see a problem with that.

[Peguy]

And who said that was a bad idea? ;)

I certainly don't think it is.

[Jack Flak]

And who said that was a bad idea? ;)
Not me, certainly! I'd take up arms in a Jefferson-led revolt.

[Hmm]

McCain = STJ

[Peguy]

Not me, certainly! I'd take up arms in a Jefferson-led revolt.

Reminds me of Lewis Black's rant about how it's time for a dead president. Therefore he can't fuck things up more than it already is, plus the world would really be scarred shitless of us. :D

[DigitalMethod]

America (on the verge of a neo-Franklin revolution):
"brb world, gotta reboot, then we'll be back for 200 years or so."

[Jeffster]

Nah, McCain's definitely an STP. I'm not sure about the E/I. Keirsey's people say E but I haven't seen compelling evidence yet that McCain doesn't want to beat the dogpiss out of most people he encounters.

And man, I was soooo hoping he would on The View. Just one swift kick to the face for each of them. I think his poll numbers would have SOARED.

[Jack Flak]

McCain = STJ
No chance. INTP 'til the cows come home.

[Peguy]

And man, I was soooo hoping he would on The View. Just one swift kick to the face for each of them. I think his poll numbers would have SOARED.

This deserves a rep point. I would've loved to have seen that. Obama's too much of a NF pussy to do that(yeah Im aware of the irony, so sue me).

[DigitalMethod]

No chance. INTP 'til the cows come home.

Well with all the milk related headlines...

[Jeffster]

No chance. INTP 'til the cows come home.

YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM KTHX.

[Jack Flak]

YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM KTHX.
There's gotta be a thread somewhere. I'll try to state my case. Maybe not very well tonight, but tomorrow.

[Usehername]

Typelogic lists them as ENFJ INTP!

(I really don't know much about Politics in general never mind from a country that's not my own; I just had read that McCain was an INTP.)

[DigitalMethod]

Lol, what the...
YouTube - McCain Is Right (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc)

So what if they agree on like three things...
The things being said are like,
"Well John is right, green is green."
:rolli:

[evan]

I hate politics so much.

Not caring is so much easier.

Yeah, I'll do that.

[Peguy]

I hate politics so much.

Not caring is so much easier.

Yeah, I'll do that.
Political philosophy is more interesting.

[disregard]

Here is the transcript

Transcript of presidential debate - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/debate.mississippi.transcript/index.html)

(I think this is it.. I don't have a TV)

[Jen]

I see McCain as an ISTJ/P and Obama iNtJ.

[Eileen]

Every INFJ here who I've noticed a political persuasion of has been religiously pro-Obama. Something to it, perhaps.

OK not Peguy, and I KNOW there are others, just a trend.

I think that a lot of people are religiously pro-obama, but I don't think I'm one of them. I'm for him because I buy into his populist message and think that cutting taxes for the very wealthy is nonsensical.

I may be religiously anti-Palin, though. I've said it before... I could deal with the notion of McCain being president until his second in command turned out to be a TOTALLY INCOMPETENT NUTJOB FUNDAMENTALIST.

McCain is INTP! Obama is ENFJ!

Obama is ENFJ, sure. But McCain INTP? Explain. I see the introversion, but not the NTness.


PS-does that make McCain and Obama a potentially ideal couple?

[Jeffster]

I may be religiously anti-Palin, though. I've said it before... I could deal with the notion of McCain being president until his second in command turned out to be a TOTALLY INCOMPETENT NUTJOB FUNDAMENTALIST.

ROWR. You hatas jus be jellus.


Obama is ENFJ, sure. But McCain INTP? Explain. I see the introversion, but not the NTness.


Nah, Jen is right. Obama is an NT pretending to be an NF because it sells better. We haven't had an NT president since Eisenhower.

[Jack Flak]

Obama is ENFJ, sure. But McCain INTP? Explain. I see the introversion, but not the NTness.


PS-does that make McCain and Obama a potentially ideal couple?
Except for the fact they tend to disagree a lot, it could work. :)

Random: I had a dream maybe an hour ago that Obama was, I believe, trying to win my friendship because I hate him so much. He bought me a suit (which was actually English/Italian--Hey, it was a dream!), and invited me to a speech of his. After that he got mad at me for wearing it b/c I was just getting it dirty. Screw you, Obama!

[AllAboutSoul]

I'm not religious about him or anybody else either. However, I am religiously against what we've been dealing with for the last 7 + years.

[Jack Flak]

I'm not religious about him or anybody else either. However, I am religiously against what we've been dealing with for the last 7 + years.
...The disagreement we have on "religiously" is probably one of semantics, not level of favor.

[Members Only]

Well put, Peguy. :)

Seconded. Enjoy your theater show America.

[animenagai]

hearing mccain speak, he sounds quite S. drawing on experience, labeling, listing... all signs. i wouldn't be surprised if he's an ISTJ like his buddy george.

[Antisocial one]

hearing mccain speak, he sounds quite S. drawing on experience, labeling, listing... all signs. i wouldn't be surprised if he's an ISTJ like his buddy george.

Why do you think that George is ISTJ?

[LostInNerSpace]

September 27th 2008 9:00 pm

Watching now. McCain is blinking a lot and smirking. What's so funny?

I wish Obama would be more vicious on the attack. This is not the time to be fair and equitable. He should have chewed John McCain up and spit him out already. But he did good.

[Eileen]

I wish Obama would be more vicious on the attack. This is not the time to be fair and equitable. He should have chewed John McCain up and spit him out already. But he did good.


I like that Obama's inclinations are not to be vicious, but I agree with you. If John McCain had said fifteen billion times about me, "What Eileen just doesn't seem to understand is..." I would have ripped his face off.