How is it like to be P ?

[Antisocial one]

There were some threads about other letters but I think this was never done for the P.


I am trying to understand why they like spontaneous behaviour and dislike or don't want too much organisation around them.

This should be enough to get us started.

[ajblaise]

It is fucking awesome.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

For me it means being able to take advantage of a situation as soon as it happens. I don't ever feel like I have to stick to a plan. Now I'm often making plans in my head, and then constantly modifying them and remaking them. At any time I can dump my plan and make a new one. When I have a goal I stay open to the most amount of different avenues to achieve that goal.

[Jeffster]

I'll tell you later.

[Kora]

I'll tell you later.

/thread

[Antisocial one]

For me it means being able to take advantage of a situation as soon as it happens. I don't ever feel like I have to stick to a plan. Now I'm often making plans in my head, and then constantly modifying them and remaking them. At any time I can dump my plan and make a new one. When I have a goal I stay open to the most amount of different avenues to achieve that goal.


To tell you the truth I think this is mostly because you are NT not P.

I say this because all NTs have some kind of a vision so some kind of a general plan exists. After all it is quite ilogical not to have any kind of a plan.

For example your posts sounds like that you have much common with me and jet I get 100% J in many occasions.

I always have a plan or more of them but my plans are always flexibile and there is always room for improvment.


It would be really good that more non NTPs join the thread.



I am trying to understand the logic of Ps and what do they want to achieve with it. (I know that my aproach is totally J )

[Royal Xavier]

For me it means being able to take advantage of a situation as soon as it happens. I don't ever feel like I have to stick to a plan. Now I'm often making plans in my head, and then constantly modifying them and remaking them. At any time I can dump my plan and make a new one. When I have a goal I stay open to the most amount of different avenues to achieve that goal.

I do that a lot too, making plans and then constantly changing them. For some reason I dislike other people trying to change my plans, but I'll change them as much as I like lol.

[Jack Flak]

Ps are anti-schedule because schedules interrupt whatever we were doing or thinking about doing. If this is really obvious, I'm sorry.

[Antisocial one]

Yes it is obvious and it is obvious because that is the most basic definition of P.


What I want to know is why.


Plus why Ps tend to like disarray.

[Jack Flak]

Yes it is obvious and it is obvious because that is the most basic definition of P.
Still, it is the answer. I sat here trying to think of a better one, but that's the answer.

[Antisocial one]

Still, it is the answer. I sat here trying to think of a better one, but that's the answer.

As I have already said this is mostly because you are an NT and a introverted one.

[Jack Flak]

For the record, I was trying to take all the Ps I've known into consideration. *does observation*

[Antisocial one]

I can understand this pert about thinking and searching some complex solutions. I do that every day for hours.

I simply don't see logical reason to be so worried about the possibilitys while you have obvious problem somewhere else. Or why postpone some decision, when it is very very likely that this is a best one?

[Jack Flak]

Our perspectives are mutually exclusive. I know that Js have a need for scheduling, but I can't "feel" this need, no matter how hard I try.

[strawberryfields]

Hmmm I am going to try and answer this. Personally, as a (strong) P, there are a lot of things I hate about being a P, and sometimes I wonder if I had more organisation skills and was more decisive I'd be a lot more J. That said, being a P is a lot more complex than being indecisive and disorganised.

For me I think J's get caught up in a lot of trivial things, and catastrophise stuff when it isn't running exactly to plan. Sometimes I think we can afford to be a little more laid back than J's are, and think of the worse case scenario. In terms of unplannedness, making a plan involves a decision. Personally, I feel sort of confined by decisions. I like to leave my options open, and know that stuff is flexible. I try to be relatively open-minded, and sometimes J's can be pretty certain about things and I'm not sure where their conviction they're right comes from.

[Antisocial one]

Our perspectives are mutually exclusive. I know that Js have a need for scheduling, but I can't "feel" this need, no matter how hard I try.

I don't want to be rude but.... isn't this ilogical or even dangerous?


When I stop planning because of sickness or something everything goes to hell.
I have seen the behaviour you have described in other people and it looks that most of the time they are just ignoring the problem.

[INTJMom]

For me it means being able to take advantage of a situation as soon as it happens. I don't ever feel like I have to stick to a plan. Now I'm often making plans in my head, and then constantly modifying them and remaking them. At any time I can dump my plan and make a new one. When I have a goal I stay open to the most amount of different avenues to achieve that goal.
That's an excellent description of the advantage of "Perceiving".

I have been married to an ISTP for 26 years.
I see a lot of advantages to P thinking verses J thinking.
Of course, trying to remember them all right now might be hard.
I see a lot of advantages, so I have tried to be more like my husband... to be more flexible and not plan things so minutely.

Adjusting myself to a "P" way of life has been very hard for me. My husband likes to "cross that bridge when we come to it," and "stay flexible and have fun." when I would feel much more comfortable having things planned out and settled ahead of time. I have had to learn to keep my "plans" open to change because chances are, he will come up with a better idea that will be more practical or useful or efficient. But since I value efficiency and practicality, that's not a problem.

I do find myself getting really irritated and frustrated when my mother and/or sister plan something 3 days or more ahead of time and then tell me what I'm doing, and I plan accordingly, only to find out at the very last second that they changed the plan and now we're doing this other thing instead.

Like for instance... we were in our cars... following my sister (INFP) to a pre-determined restaurant... that I had been looking forward to going to for a week... when suddenly she pulls off the road into the drive way of a different restaurant (one at which patrons have twice reportedly received food poisoning and which I don't go to because of that) and she says, I think our father will like this place better.

So she got to decide at the very last second what we were all doing... but I can't complain because she's only trying to please our father.
And yeah I was upset because I had been dreaming about the food at the other place for a week!

I guess I have been learning not to get myself invested in the plans that involve other people because for some reason people have a problem making a plan and sticking to it.

I admire my husband's abilities but at the same time, I have a hard time trying to be like that.

[INTJMom]

I can understand this pert about thinking and searching some complex solutions. I do that every day for hours.

I simply don't see logical reason to be so worried about the possibilitys while you have obvious problem somewhere else. Or why postpone some decision, when it is very very likely that this is a best one?
Ah, see. A "P" would never think that thought! "this is the best one"
They don't know it's the best until they have reached or surpassed the deadline.

And they don't "worry" about possibilities.
Possibilities are more like a field of poppies to run through rather than something to worry about.
The Ps can correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at it from a J perspective, that's what it seems like to me.
Possibilities are something I worry about! Oh yeah.

[Santtu]

Uhh. Well, I've tested as P recently. Nevertheless, I've planned to make 50-60hrs work a week for a month now, to pay my credit bills and to have some extra cash for an emergency. I've experimented with how much work I can do after what amount of sleep, for the purpose of squeezing most out of me in the least time possible. I plan to invest my time carefully, for relaxing things to do, something that will improve my ability to work. In the meantime, I'm organizing my monetary arrangements so I'll have the most money after this project.

Afterwards, I plan to divide my time with work and free time more carefully, with me doing 40-46hrs work per week, using little money for my living and saving the rest. I'll invest the money on a one-year education to become a certified systems administrator. Later on, I'll plan to get a day job in systems administration, and continue my education in computer science, to become a Master of Science in about 5 years.

I calculate the rewards and risks for being punctual or random in each case. For example. I felt like drinking 6 beers the last night; today work didn't go well, so I'll have to restrain myself from doing anything like that again. I invite my girlfriend to come at my place and expect her to come at any time; she's late, no worries - I've spent my happily playing computer games. I collapse early due to heavy work earlier in the day; no worries, I ask her to make food this time.

I regret for my GF being uncompetitive and spending money as it comes. I'm into much more organized spending. I want to earn first, then spend. I've planned my general investment strategy, too, and how much money I need to start it up efficiently.

So, this is what it means to be a P for me.

Oh and free time? I'm playing wow. I've calculated what is the most efficient way to get my characters to my goal level, and where they'll be good at. I've deviated from the plan somewhat, and it bothers me. OTOH, I made great gold (virtual ingame money) with some good sales, so I guess it's OK to have altered my plans somewhat.

When have I done the last really impulsive thing? I had a few friends at my house last saturday, and we watched a movie and had a free-flowing chat.

So, 2 hours of impulsive stuff for me last week, and 100 hours planned, goal-orientated stuff, which went about 90-95% as planned.

So should a good P be doing flip-flops on the street, singing and drinking? Doing improvisational comedy in every street corner? Canceling 90% of their meetings? Gambling their money away? :huh:

[INTJMom]

I don't want to be rude but.... isn't this ilogical or even dangerous?


When I stop planning because of sickness or something everything goes to hell.
I have seen the behaviour you have described in other people and it looks that most of the time they are just ignoring the problem.
When a "P" is behaving like a "P" they are at their best, and doing what they're good at.
It's not bad to be a "P", it's just different from "J".

When a "J" is behaving like a "P", THEN we have a problem.

[Antisocial one]

Ah, see. A "P" would never think that thought! "this is the best one"
They don't know it's the best until they have reached or surpassed the deadline.

And they don't "worry" about possibilities.
Possibilities are more like a field of poppies to run through rather than something to worry about.
The Ps can correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at it from a J perspective, that's what it seems like to me.
Possibilities are something I worry about! Oh yeah.

That came out wrong my point was that they are sometimes so obsest with something which probability is below 1% and they want to be sure about something while there is not way that you can be sure about it.
This is still too simple argument to be fully valid.

To tell you the truth I think that J can also take a look from different perspective and give you a good advice.

[INTJMom]

That came out wrong my point was that they are sometimes so obsest with something which probability is below 1% and they want to be sure about something while there is not way that you can be sure about it.
This is still too simple argument to be fully valid.

To tell you the truth I think that J can also take a look from different perspective and give you a good advice.
I don't believe Ps, in general, obsess.
It sounds like you are calling it obsession, when it may be something else.
You sound like you have had personal frustration head-butting with a P.

My ISTP husband never obsesses about anything, and neither does my ISTP son.
In fact, they are quite less likely to obsess since the P gives them a rather carefree attitude.
You are going to have to get more specific with real-life examples.

[INTJMom]

...
To tell you the truth I think that J can also take a look from different perspective and give you a good advice.
Yes, but Js tend to work from within a "box".
For Ps, there is no box.

[FDG]

Uhh. Well, I've tested as P recently. Nevertheless, I've planned to make 50-60hrs work a week for a month now, to pay my credit bills and to have some extra cash for an emergency. I've experimented with how much work I can do after what amount of sleep, for the purpose of squeezing most out of me in the least time possible. I plan to invest my time carefully, for relaxing things to do, something that will improve my ability to work. In the meantime, I'm organizing my monetary arrangements so I'll have the most money after this project.

Afterwards, I plan to divide my time with work and free time more carefully, with me doing 40-46hrs work per week, using little money for my living and saving the rest. I'll invest the money on a one-year education to become a certified systems administrator. Later on, I'll plan to get a day job in systems administration, and continue my education in computer science, to become a Master of Science in about 5 years.

I calculate the rewards and risks for being punctual or random in each case. For example. I felt like drinking 6 beers the last night; today work didn't go well, so I'll have to restrain myself from doing anything like that again. I invite my girlfriend to come at my place and expect her to come at any time; she's late, no worries - I've spent my happily playing computer games. I collapse early due to heavy work earlier in the day; no worries, I ask her to make food this time.

I regret for my GF being uncompetitive and spending money as it comes. I'm into much more organized spending. I want to earn first, then spend. I've planned my general investment strategy, too, and how much money I need to start it up efficiently.

So, this is what it means to be a P for me.

Oh and free time? I'm playing wow. I've calculated what is the most efficient way to get my characters to my goal level, and where they'll be good at. I've deviated from the plan somewhat, and it bothers me. OTOH, I made great gold (virtual ingame money) with some good sales, so I guess it's OK to have altered my plans somewhat.

When have I done the last really impulsive thing? I had a few friends at my house last saturday, and we watched a movie and had a free-flowing chat.

So, 2 hours of impulsive stuff for me last week, and 100 hours planned, goal-orientated stuff, which went about 90-95% as planned.

So should a good P be doing flip-flops on the street, singing and drinking? Doing improvisational comedy in every street corner? Canceling 90% of their meetings? Gambling their money away? :huh:

I totally gotta be a P type then :shock:

(OTOH it could also be that the similarity I notice is due to our shared enneagram type)

[Jack Flak]

I don't want to be rude but.... isn't this ilogical or even dangerous?


When I stop planning because of sickness or something everything goes to hell.
I have seen the behaviour you have described in other people and it looks that most of the time they are just ignoring the problem.

Js tend to worry about the problems without regard to what happens in a worst-case scenario. They want to achieve as close to the best scenario possible, and will work toward that at any cost. To do less is to fail.

Ps analyze the worst-case scenario for what it would mean in the end, and the worst case scenario is often considered acceptable. Therefore, they do not see the need to strive so hard to achieve the absolute best.

[substitute]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that obsessing is not really within the sphere of my natural capability... I mean I get bursts of enthusiasm for my current interests or curiosities, but that's all it is, it's enthusiasm and it's positive, I'm happy and laughing and loving it and often infecting others with that enthusiasm. But it then passes onto something else, because I've seen the link between the previous thing and this other thing. In fact to me, they're all just one 'thing', whilst my J friends see me as 'grasshopping', I don't see what I do that way at all. To my mind, I've been following one very logical and obvious line of enquiry.

I don't worry about things. I'm not a worrier at all. Reason being that regardless of what shit I've been through (and let me tell you.... hahaha... etc), somehow I'm still alive, still breathing, and still loving it. So, y'know... as Jack said, I don't feel this driving need for things to be what the J would call best case scenario. To me, the steps necessary in achieving that scenario make the cost of its achievement too high, thereby negating its status in my mind as best case scenario; it becomes undesirable, in fact.

I can plan and organize if I want to. I can't stand other people planning me and organizing me though. I don't flake; I keep my commitments. But that's because I don't make them without due consideration of the probability of keeping them entailing paying a price I consider too high, on balance.

Also, events have a habit of unfolding in a way that's often different from what we expected; therefore I don't expect anything. I refrain from expectation as much as humanly possible, and simply deal with reality directly, interface with it directly as it unfolds. Plans, schedules and policies tend to generally be necessary evils for me, that interrupt with my smooth and natural, spontaneous weaving of myself and my life into the fabric of reality. So I prefer to keep them to a minimum.

[INTJMom]

...
Ps analyze the worst-case scenario for what it would mean in the end, and the worst case scenario is often considered acceptable. Therefore, they do not see the need to strive so hard to achieve the absolute best.
Oh REAL-ly?! Is THAT how they do it! :)

[Jack Flak]

Oh REAL-ly?! Is THAT how they do it!
Was that a rhetorical question? Anyway, the answer is "Yes'm, in my experience, 'tis."

[Antisocial one]

I don't believe Ps, in general, obsess.
It sounds like you are calling it obsession, when it may be something else.
You sound like you have had personal frustration head-butting with a P.

My ISTP husband never obsesses about anything, and neither does my ISTP son.
In fact, they are quite less likely to obsess since the P gives them a rather carefree attitude.
You are going to have to get more specific with real-life examples.

That is true to some degree, but the part about what I am talking about is that they put much time in effort to be ready for everything.
They have huge problems with the idea that some stuff should be in garbage.
What probably leads to disarray on the long run.



Yes, but Js tend to work from within a "box".
For Ps, there is no box.

I don't agree with this.
For example NTJ are very good in thinking outside the box and my unconventional thinking is probably my greatest strength. What means that there are no boxes that should dictate some "natural" order.
For me there are just countless objects and even more ways how to arrange them.


I have opened this thread because I am totally surrounded by Ps.


You live in the US so you don't know how it is like to live in society where Ps are dominant in group.
The catch is that when you get critical number of Ps they stimulate each other in not to making decisions.

Some examples

Guy says he will be there but on his way he changes his mind and goes somewhere else.

Since cell phones started situation is out of control because cell phones allow you to avoid decision. It is social rule to end conversation with "I will call you"
So entire nation just waits for some phone call and no one does not want to make one and make a deal because they are waiting for other offers.
Which will not came, because others are waiting also.

You call a repairman and the deal is that he comes in xx:xx hours and he does not come because he had someone else in that time but he made a deal with you because he was thinking that the problem was not so big at the other place. So he was hopping that he will make it.

Or people that don't have what it takes for some decision so they beg you to push them to make it.

State institutions work in the same way.
This are some examples of how society full of Ps looks like.

[ptgatsby]

State institutions work in the same way.
This are some examples of how society full of Ps looks like.

The more J you are, the more Ps there seem to be :)

For the most part, Ps are best understood by their lack of closure. Js need closure - to ideas, to events, to time, to just about anything... Ps don't and actively resist closing things off.


The need to be ready has a lot more to do with security. A P may appear to obsess if they are insecure, and a J may become a control freak. It just creates more defined behaviour in different types.

[Leysing]

State institutions work in the same way.
This are some examples of how society full of Ps looks like.

Which is a problem to Js only. :D

[Antisocial one]

The more J you are, the more Ps there seem to be :)

I am aware of this efect.

[Antisocial one]

Which is a problem to Js only. :D


It is a problem for Ps also. It is just that they don't see the problem and that is why entire situation is dangerous.


disarray+disarray= bigger disarray

[Jack Flak]

disarray+disarray= bigger disarray= A-OK
Fixed.

[Antisocial one]

So if I get it right. Ps are not defending from this because they think this is ok.

[INTJMom]

...
I don't agree with this.
...
How dare you disagree with me?! I happen to be right! :devil:




(This is meant to be funny. Please enjoy the irony. It's an INTJ joke.)

[Jack Flak]

So if I get it right. Ps are not defending from this because they think this is ok.
In general, that is correct.

[Grayscale]

i usually score above 95%+ "P" on tests, so i think i have a pretty good understanding of it. :) here's my explanation...


P is about making a masterpiece (or as close to it as possible) of the moment with what you have available. i realize that as time extends into the future, the possible variables and thus possible outcomes expand (like a cone), so in regards to the distant future, thinking ahead has to be on a very wide-scale basis.

as that point in the future begins to near the present, the variables begin to contract until it reaches the singular path of the present. during all of this, i am dynamically calculating my decisions based on the underlying patterns of accumulated past observations as well as future predictions to whatever degree i can manage while retaining accuracy.

this framework is extended forward into time only as far as it's logical foundation can be maintained based on the pattern of past observations. at a certain point, this crumbles and the need for further concrete information is needed to determine one thing or another ahead of time... instead of ignoring this, i "wait and see", literally, to gather further observation and decide when the time is right.

this means detailed planning is only achievable in the very short term, and due to the dynamic, on-the-fly nature of how decisions are calculated, when new variables come up they can usually be seamlessly added into the equation, making "P" very opportunistic.

with that said, I also have learned that in order to avoid situations where options are detrimentally limited, lots of forethought is needed. however, how holistic this is depends on how far into the future it is as well as how much information or experience is already available. in regards to ISTPs, "the master of tools", it is most often that these pre-conceived ideas are the tools we intuitively will develop for things yet to come (Ni) and when any situation arises, we apply our store of ideas to each situation on a custom, case-by-case basis, in real time.


the downside to this approach is that it can be entirely too reactionary. what this means is that instead of identifying a goal, regardless of whether one can know for certain whether it can be attained, the strong "P" tends to "float along", and in that sense are prone to leaving destiny in the hands of the environment instead of themselves. the more deterministic approach usually lends to, at least, accomplishing some degree of what was determined.

[Antisocial one]

How dare you disagree with me?! I happen to be right! :devil:




(This is meant to be funny. Please enjoy the irony. It's an INTJ joke.)


This is not what I am arguing at all. People should question everthing.

I am saying that if you create disarray you are in serious trouble and disarray usually growns with time so in the end everything could end up in disaster.

[substitute]

Grayscale, that was a masterpiece.
*applause*

(and you too PT.)



Did I ever express my appreciation for ISTP's? oh yes, I did, I remember now. I started the ISTP appreciation thread. Now I remember why :D

[Grayscale]

Grayscale, that was a masterpiece.
*applause*

(and you too PT.)



Did I ever express my appreciation for ISTP's? oh yes, I did, I remember now. I started the ISTP appreciation thread. Now I remember why :D

after re-reading it, i think that explanation is much more suited towards xSTPs, but it would be easier to mix and match in some different vocabulary for other types.

for Ns, less concrete observation, more pattern recognition and theoretical understanding, for Fs, less dynamic logic calculation, more evolution of emotional understanding

the downside to this approach is that it can be entirely too reactionary. what this means is that instead of identifying a goal, regardless of whether one can know for certain whether it can be attained, the strong "P" tends to "float along", and in that sense are prone to leaving destiny in the hands of the environment instead of themselves. the more deterministic approach usually lends to, at least, accomplishing some degree of what was determined.

i should also stress this. i think most of the P-types here can agree that the "make up your mind and get it done" approach of J-types is incredibly important. actually, i think J-types are under-appreciated in the social scene because people forget that it is this sort of determination and fortitude that has pushed society to become what it is now.

[FDG]

The more J you are, the more Ps there seem to be :)

For the most part, Ps are best understood by their lack of closure. Js need closure - to ideas, to events, to time, to just about anything... Ps don't and actively resist closing things off.


The need to be ready has a lot more to do with security. A P may appear to obsess if they are insecure, and a J may become a control freak. It just creates more defined behaviour in different types.

Yeah, I agree with this type of definition.

[INTJMom]

i usually score above 95%+ "P" on tests, so i think i have a pretty good understanding of it. :) here's my explanation...


P is about making a masterpiece (or as close to it as possible) of the moment with what you have available. i realize that as time extends into the future, the possible variables and thus possible outcomes expand (like a cone), so in regards to the distant future, thinking ahead has to be on a very wide-scale basis.
...
The entire post was excellent! :) Beautiful description!

[substitute]

Yeah. I kinda intuitively read that into it though :laugh:

Just to comment on this, though:


the downside to this approach is that it can be entirely too reactionary. what this means is that instead of identifying a goal, regardless of whether one can know for certain whether it can be attained, the strong "P" tends to "float along", and in that sense are prone to leaving destiny in the hands of the environment instead of themselves. the more deterministic approach usually lends to, at least, accomplishing some degree of what was determined.

This never tends to be really be a problem for me. 99% of my life I'm "coasting". Everything is just too easy, most of the time. So there's no need to TRY. But should the need to try arise, I've a good track record of being able to just move up a gear and pwn stuff. It's like what happens is, usually I'm just aware that all this "stuff" is around me, going on... I've sorta got one eye on it, I'm aware of it, but it's all cool, I know no intervention is needed. But because I've been watching it all along, when intervention is needed, it's like I'm watching a revolving door. I know exactly when the open part's gonna come back round again, and all I've gotta do is jump when it does. So even when under great pressure, I can still just wait 'til the last minute to make up my mind and jump.

hmmm....

[SaltyWench]

For me it means being able to take advantage of a situation as soon as it happens. I don't ever feel like I have to stick to a plan. Now I'm often making plans in my head, and then constantly modifying them and remaking them. At any time I can dump my plan and make a new one. When I have a goal I stay open to the most amount of different avenues to achieve that goal.

This is me in a nutshell. So... yeah.

[INTJMom]

Grayscale, that was a masterpiece.
*applause*
...
I was going to applaud too but I was afraid someone would make fun of me... *joins in*.

[Grayscale]

less applause, more applesauce

[substitute]

I was going to applaud too but I was afraid someone would make fun of me... *joins in*.

Ha, J's take themselves too seriously ;)

I ASSUME that people will make fun of me before I say anything and defend against this by seeing the potential ridiculum of it myself beforehand and laughing inwardly at it. Then it's just a pleasant surprise when they don't. But not always. Sometimes I was looking forward to poking fun at it myself :laugh:

Actually that's another P vs J difference I tend to notice... J's seem to take themselves more seriously in general, they tend to be IME less able to take teasing and stuff. Get more easily offended... P's seem more able to just laugh at themselves with others, good naturedly.

[Antisocial one]

Ha, J's take themselves too seriously ;)

I ASSUME that people will make fun of me before I say anything and defend against this by seeing the potential ridiculum of it myself beforehand and laughing inwardly at it. Then it's just a pleasant surprise when they don't. But not always. Sometimes I was looking forward to poking fun at it myself :laugh:

Actually that's another P vs J difference I tend to notice... J's seem to take themselves more seriously in general, they tend to be IME less able to take teasing and stuff. Get more easily offended... P's seem more able to just laugh at themselves with others, good naturedly.


Please believe me when I say, that from all 8 letters J is probably the letter that has the largest changes in working stile depending on which other 3 letters come with it.

Example ESFJ - INTJ

[substitute]

oh I'm not saying no J's can have a good natured giggle at themselves or take a little ribbing. I hate to say it but it does seem the NJ's are better at it... I think perhaps that 'take things at surface value' thing the SJ's have going on perhaps might hinder them from taking the words as anything but what they seem... the undercurrents of humour, perhaps even affection or cameraderie that can accompany someone saying "shut it, butthead!" are often lost on them and all they see is an incredibly rude insult. I dunno...

But what do you think of the answers you've had so far though? Enlightened you any?

[Antisocial one]

oh I'm not saying no J's can have a good natured giggle at themselves or take a little ribbing. I hate to say it but it does seem the NJ's are better at it... I think perhaps that 'take things at surface value' thing the SJ's have going on perhaps might hinder them from taking the words as anything but what they seem... the undercurrents of humour, perhaps even affection or cameraderie that can accompany someone saying "shut it, butthead!" are often lost on them and all they see is an incredibly rude insult. I dunno...

But what do you think of the answers you've had so far though? Enlightened you any?

Replys are very good in amount of insight. What does not mean that I agree with everything what has been said.
But the point of MBTI is that people are different.

I think you are absolutly right about the SJ , NJ thing. We use J on totally different way. But SJ way in much more common in society. So everybody think about J as SJ.What is normal since NJs are actually the rarest types out there.
What is again understandable since those types are "visionary".

On the other hand I see how much smart is the move, that I don't use the full strenght of my J on other people.

[Santtu]

I totally gotta be a P type then :shock:

(OTOH it could also be that the similarity I notice is due to our shared enneagram type)
Re-tested, got ENTJ.. with moderately strong J. So I guess no P behavior then :P Why don't I feel surprised ..

I'm getting a bit stressed for having to do this all, tho I decided it's for the best. I've got scores close to J-P previously, and it seems to change whether I'm in some big project or not. So technically, I'm not on the position to share my P experiences :dry:

[Antisocial one]

Question for Ps.

Would you ever set you alarm clock to 2:00 AM and then get up at that time and learn for the rest of the night?
Just because that has to be done.

[Jack Flak]

Question for Ps.

Would you ever set you alarm clock to 2:00 AM and then get up at that time and learn of the rest of the night just because that has to be done?
LOL.

[Antisocial one]

LOL.

I will take this as NO.

[Antisocial one]

I have reformed my question so now it probably makes more sense.

Also I am interested in how Ps look at this question.

[Jack Flak]

I have reformed my question so now it probably makes more sense.

Also I am interested in how Ps look at this question.
The only way that's happening is if there's a deadline in place, a deadline I actually care about, and the reason I have to get up at 2:00 AM is because I've procrastinated.

That has actually happened.

[Antisocial one]

The only way that's happening is if there's a deadline in place, a deadline I actually care about, and the reason I have to get up at 2:00 AM is because I've procrastinated.

That has actually happened.

So there is hope after all.:devil:


To me it happens that I get only few days to learn something and I don't have the time to do it. So I do it, this way.

[raindancing]

Umm I've set my alarm for 2:00AM for a plane flight :D

But otherwise, it would have to be a reallyreallyREALLY important deadline, cause I value my sleep.
:smile: = good
:thelook: = bad

[substitute]

Question for Ps.

Would you ever set you alarm clock to 2:00 AM and then get up at that time and learn for the rest of the night?
Just because that has to be done.

Why does it have to be done?
Do I have an exam tomorrow for which I've not studied at all the entire year?
In which case I don't set the alarm for 2am. I stay up all night making up acronyms and mnemonics.
Actually I never set the alarm for then because I'm almost always still awake by then anyway. I'd have to set the alarm to be out of the house before 9am though. In fact, even before 10... I set my alarm this morning because I had to take my kids to a piano lesson at 11.

The only thing that could induce me to think that 'has to be done' would be something like an exam the next morning. But even then no, I don't think I would. I'd figure, meh, I'll do what I can and if I fail, retake it. Or consider other options.

[raindancing]

Why does it have to be done?
Do I have an exam tomorrow for which I've not studied at all the entire year?
In which case I don't set the alarm for 2am. I stay up all night making up acronyms and mnemonics.
Actually I never set the alarm for then because I'm almost always still awake by then anyway. I'd have to set the alarm to be out of the house before 9am though. In fact, even before 10... I set my alarm this morning because I had to take my kids to a piano lesson at 11.

The only thing that could induce me to think that 'has to be done' would be something like an exam the next morning. But even then no, I don't think I would. I'd figure, meh, I'll do what I can and if I fail, retake it. Or consider other options.

Finally, a kindred spirit!!! :banana:

Thinking specifically, I can't figure out what would actually induce me to set the alarm for 2am (other than the aforementioned plane flight)... really if something was THAT important I doubt I'd be able to sleep anyway, so I just wouldn't go to bed.

[entropie]

What is it like to P, xD I really do not know

[Grayscale]

entropie, some people will never experience what it is like to have p-ness, and i feel sorry for these people

[substitute]

Ya rly! Why on earth would I be up swatting at 2am or all night or whatever in panic about the possibility of failing an exam? FFS, I've already considered the worst case scenario ages ago (me failing the exam) and I've long been aware that there are many other options open to me should this occur, all equally acceptable. In fact, I already barely even know why I'm taking the damned exam. So like, I'm chillin' with mah homiez, drinking beer and watching a movie :D

[raindancing]

Ya rly! Why on earth would I be up swatting at 2am or all night or whatever in panic about the possibility of failing an exam?

Now staying up til 2am cause I get caught up in some new/exciting project...that's more likely!

I don't see why I should choose to do something I really dislike, I mean if it's not actually necessary (and most things aren't), and I really don't like it... what's the point? :huh:
There has to be a very good reason for me to do something I don't want to do, doing things for the sake of doing things does not make sense to me.

[Usehername]

entropie, some people will never experience what it is like to have p-ness, and i feel sorry for these people

I'm one of those... :cry:

p.s. loved your Amazing Post. You know which one I'm talking about. :)

[substitute]

Yeah and also doing things for fear of what might happen if you don't do them, that doesn't make much sense to me either... I'd rather being doing things because I like doing them. Cos pretty much anything you can do, like you say, will have unknowable consequences, leading to unforeseeable opportunities... I could pass the exams and go to college and get an ace job... only to have my wife leave me for the mailman and become a prozac-propped executive with a Ferrari and a big fat midlife crisis lol

Contrarywise, I could fail the exam and through a chain of unintended events wind up scoring a job that pays all I need, working for a boss that's a joy to work for, through which I meet my perfect soul mate and live a life of simple contentment.

"Succeeding" is no guarantee of happiness, and taking the less prestigious route doesn't exclude the possibility of comfortable living. In short, life throws all kinds of curves at you, best to be able to ride those waves to home and dry, rather than stick your head down into the water and plough relentlessly forward, only to find you went past your paradise island several miles back... lol

[Jack Flak]

Yeah and also doing things for fear of what might happen if you don't do them, that doesn't make much sense to me either... I'd rather being doing things because I like doing them. Cos pretty much anything you can do, like you say, will have unknowable consequences, leading to unforeseeable opportunities...
One of the foundations of basically all xNTP's philosophies.

[raindancing]

Yeah and also doing things for fear of what might happen if you don't do them, that doesn't make much sense to me either... I'd rather being doing things because I like doing them. Cos pretty much anything you can do, like you say, will have unknowable consequences, leading to unforeseeable opportunities... I could pass the exams and go to college and get an ace job... only to have my wife leave me for the mailman and become a prozac-propped executive with a Ferrari and a big fat midlife crisis lol

Contrarywise, I could fail the exam and through a chain of unintended events wind up scoring a job that pays all I need, working for a boss that's a joy to work for, through which I meet my perfect soul mate and live a life of simple contentment.

"Succeeding" is no guarantee of happiness, and taking the less prestigious route doesn't exclude the possibility of comfortable living. In short, life throws all kinds of curves at you, best to be able to ride those waves to home and dry, rather than stick your head down into the water and plough relentlessly forward, only to find you went past your paradise island several miles back... lol

Exactly. That's why when "bad" things happen, it doesn't really bother me that much, how do I know anything else would actually have been better? Also, things always seem to work out good for me in the end. I've often wondered if I actually lead a charmed life or it's more my attitude. When you focus on opportunities, each new situation, whether bad or good, brings more possibilities... and I don't know how, but everything always works out!

[OneWithSoul]

I think the only times I enjoy being a P is when I can change things around..so on a more detailed looks..if I say to myself I'm going to do something, then change my mind and do something else, I don't feel any regret at all..if that makes sense?..

[animenagai]

Question for Ps.

Would you ever set you alarm clock to 2:00 AM and then get up at that time and learn for the rest of the night?
Just because that has to be done.

:rofl1:

o you INTJ's should become comedians.

these hilarious jokes aside, let's go back to the main topic. what's it like to be a P? well it's not that i don't plan or that i don't like plans. i like plans that i make which make me feel like i have some power over a confusing situation. essay plans etc. however, these plans are hardly perfect and often just not good enough for me to feel devoted to them. therefore, if a friend asks me to go out with him for example i can go 'meh, i'll start the essay tomorrow' and if i think of a better plan, i have no qualms ditching the previous plan for the new one.

i think there is also a lot of truth to what jackflack said. a lot of times, i do feel like i can accept the worse case scenario. let's make it clear though, that doesn't mean i am willing to accept the worse scenario as much as the best scenario. it doesn't work like that. however, in the grand scale of things, i wouldn't feel like the world is coming to an end even if i missed an assignment or whatever. i may feel bad about it for a while but i bounce back quickly.

i think a lot with being a P is really just learning to enjoy the moment. like what grayscale said, i find it very important to stop and smell the roses. i have met too many people (cough my mother cough) who let the littlest things ruin their day. does it really matter that the dishes aren't done yet? does it really matter that our discussion doesn't necessarily have a point? isn't living the moment point enough? i think much like how one person can pursuit being more J to be more organized, one can aim to be more P to become more chillaxed. i like being a P, i think it makes me a happier person. i consciously try and not let things get me. i think you can usually tell when someone's a P too.

[Antisocial one]

To me it happens that I get only few days to learn something and I don't have the time to do it. So I do it, this way.

I believe that this sentence is answer you are looking for Substitute.
Yes I am talking about the exams here.

There is simply no other way that I can do it and do it right.
That is because sometimes I have only few days for the entire thing and over the day I must do other things. It is simply that I sometime don't have the time.

So this has become one of my standard strategys.

[substitute]

OK, but what I said previously answers the question from my POV and explains why I don't relate to your reasoning :)

[Antisocial one]

I just wanted to say that I do this because of exams.

Also I don't feel bad when things go wrong. What I do is trying to find a way to repair the situation or find alternative way.

[bluemonday]

entropie, some people will never experience what it is like to have p-ness, and i feel sorry for these people

:smile:

I find my 'P'-ness constantly rubs people up the wrong way

[bluemonday]

where is this country full of Ps, i want to live there?

i'll swap you, i'm surrounded by bloody annoying, controlling, pedantic, dogmatic, narrow-minded, deadline-pushing, style-cramping, anal-retentive Js !!!!

[FDG]

Question for Ps.

Would you ever set you alarm clock to 2:00 AM and then get up at that time and learn for the rest of the night?
Just because that has to be done.

I'm a J, and I wouldn't do this, ever.

I'd plan my study-sessions in such a way that I can sleep all night and use the day (which is the time I learn best) for studying.

[Antisocial one]

I'm a J, and I wouldn't do this, ever.

I'd plan my study-sessions in such a way that I can sleep all night and use the day (which is the time I learn best) for studying.

But would you do it If you have no other options at all and you want to get it right?

That is the real point of my question from the start.

[FDG]

But would you do it If you have no other options at all and you want to get it right?

That is the real point of my question from the start.

Ah, I wouldn't do it anyway, I'd probably just take the exam next time it was available.

[Babylon Candle]

Question for Ps.

Would you ever set you alarm clock to 2:00 AM and then get up at that time and learn for the rest of the night?
Just because that has to be done.

yes i do this kind of shit all the time...tertiary Te Juggernaut mode FTW!!!!


I will often give up studying at 12am because Im tired....then set my alarm for 4 30am to finish studying for the test...

[Antisocial one]

.

[Antisocial one]

I am sorry if Ps feel analysed it is just that I want to understand all those people around me.

What do you think about concept "conflict" ?

[entropie]

conflict sucks... at least if you have the weaker weapons :)

[colmena]

A disagreement can breed innovation, as it can war.

What kind of conflict?

[Uytuun]

Js tend to worry about the problems without regard to what happens in a worst-case scenario. They want to achieve as close to the best scenario possible, and will work toward that at any cost. To do less is to fail.

Ps analyze the worst-case scenario for what it would mean in the end, and the worst case scenario is often considered acceptable. Therefore, they do not see the need to strive so hard to achieve the absolute best.

Hmm, my plans first and foremost revolve around *making sure that* (difference with Ps) the worst case scenario is acceptable - which may mean working to upgrade the current worst case scenario. When that's taken care of, I can play around and possibly aim higher "safely". I doubt Js disregard what could happen in a worst case scenario.

[Uytuun]

Actually that's another P vs J difference I tend to notice... J's seem to take themselves more seriously in general, they tend to be IME less able to take teasing and stuff. Get more easily offended... P's seem more able to just laugh at themselves with others, good naturedly.

Not all of them, my bro teases and taunts the hell out of me, but when I come back with a reply, he often seems to be stung, or says that it's "below the belt" and whatnot.

You dish it out, you take it back, bitch.

Umm, as for the 2 AM thing...I pretty much do what Jack does and not at all what FDG does.

[entropie]

Js tend to worry about the problems without regard to what happens in a worst-case scenario. They want to achieve as close to the best scenario possible, and will work toward that at any cost. To do less is to fail.

Ps analyze the worst-case scenario for what it would mean in the end, and the worst case scenario is often considered acceptable. Therefore, they do not see the need to strive so hard to achieve the absolute best.

Just saw that. That is just great !

Besides:
No wonder, BlueWing has got a crush on you, I start to have one aswell :D

[Antisocial one]

A disagreement can breed innovation, as it can war.

What kind of conflict?

Did not have any specific kind of conflict in mind I am asking about the idea of the conflict. Do you like conflict?


Here are some examples of conflict.

Between people(none physical), intellectual agression , coutry vs country......

[Antisocial one]

Are Ps more likely to be interested in spiritual pursuit?

[ajblaise]

Are Ps more likely to be interested in spiritual pursuit?

I think they would be, but the fact that social tradition in many places emphasizes spirituality, more Js will be into it, just for that fact.

But in America, I bet there is more P Buddhists, New Ager's, and "Christians" so liberal they barely believe in Jesus.... than Js.

[Bella]

ajblaise doesn't have to go on any spiritual pursuit because he's Jesus incarnate,

[ajblaise]

ajblaise doesn't have to go on any spiritual pursuit because he's Jesus incarnate,

Exactly, people undertake spiritual pursuits just for the chance to take in my essence.

[Antisocial one]

I think they would be, but the fact that social tradition in many places emphasizes spirituality, more Js will be into it, just for that fact.

But in America, I bet there is more P Buddhists, New Ager's, and "Christians" so liberal they barely believe in Jesus.... than Js.


I agree.

That is why I have said spiritual pursuit. For Js it can be just a duty.

[ajblaise]

I agree.

That is why I have said spiritual pursuit. For Js it can be just a duty.

Yeah, many of them are poseurs who do no more than wear the label.

[neofrizz]

Ps are anti-schedule because schedules interrupt whatever we were doing or thinking about doing. If this is really obvious, I'm sorry.

I agree with Flak. Being INFP, I get even more frustrated when someone tells me they are going to be interrupting me ahead of time. I can handle it when something "planned" pops up, but as soon as someone tells me they are planning to interrupt me, I "plan" to not be available.

[Antisocial one]

Why Ps have so much problems with plans?

I don't see why you can't have intellectual moments and planning in the same box.

If you can't, that only means that the plan is not good enough.

[Tallulah]

yes i do this kind of shit all the time...tertiary Te Juggernaut mode FTW!!!!


I will often give up studying at 12am because Im tired....then set my alarm for 4 30am to finish studying for the test...

This is what I would do when I was in college. I'd usually mostly procrastinate studying until the night before, so I'd study until I got tired, catch a few hours' sleep, then get up and study a couple of hours before the test, to cram it into my short term memory.

Why Ps have so much problems with plans?

I don't see why you can't have intellectual moments and planning in the same box.

If you can't, that only means that the plan is not good enough.

We just like to keep our options open. Regimented plans make us feel trapped, and they take all the fun out of things. My sister's an ISTJ, and plans enable her to have fun, because they give her structure and boundaries between which she can open up and enjoy herself. Having plans that can't ever be modified or broken makes me feel like I've been put in a cage.

One of my mom's good friends is the most J person I think I've ever met, and she wanted me to help her plan a bridal shower one time. We nearly drove each other nuts. She wanted to decide every little detail, months and months in advance. She wanted to have the food, the decorations, the tablecloths, etc. etc. all figured out, budgeted for, etc., nearly six months in advance. And this was a very informal shower, less than 50 people, held at the church. I just couldn't see the need for that amount of rigid planning for something that was not a life or death situation. I knew that we had some good resources, and that the shower was going to be a success, no matter what, and that we had some time to mull it over before we had to come to any major decisions.

One thing I think Js don't realize is that Ps will very often be mulling stuff over in our heads, thinking of the possibilities for as long as we can. It might not look like we're doing anything, because you don't see immediate results. But when the deadline hits, we'll have your result, and it'll be just as good.

[ygolo]

Why Ps have so much problems with plans?

I don't see why you can't have intellectual moments and planning in the same box.

If you can't, that only means that the plan is not good enough.

I think most P's are type B personalities. But here is a perspective from a P-type who is a type A personality...

There is a balance. For me, I only plan if things are important to me, and simply cannot be improvised.

Nothing really complex that is being done the first time goes according to plan, nothing.

Simple things, yes. Travel, under most circumstances. Small-size programs or circuits. Planning an education, and other things like that.

If you've done that something many times over and you've honed the process, then the complex things become simple and can be appropriately planed. But if that can be done, it is boring. It needs to be done, often. But it's still boring.

Simple things that you haven't done that other people can teach you, can also go according to plan, if the other person is good at planning.


I know people who are rather good at planning complex projects, and here is what I found... the best planners know that their plan needs to be too-simple, and based on severe (and I can't put too much emphasis on this) over-budgeting.

The unfortunate thing is at the expense of having a plan where things will get done on-time and under-budget, the project itself never starts (because it is too damn costly). Sometimes you just have to jump in an begin, on principle, without plan or budget, with an eye towards breaking whatever assumptions people have had in the past to get things done.

Ideally, the severely over-budgeted thing should be respected for what it is, but that doesn't happen.

On the other hand, nothing really complex has been done without a plan. The act of planning itself is useful work, even if they plan itself is way of the mark. It gets you engaged, and begun (in a way), as long as you know that no plan is going to be perfect or flexible enough, or account for all the contingencies.

On the flip side, short-term, simple, plans are immensely useful for motivation and keeping a good pace. But always being in this mode make you miss big process improvements you can make.

As to the comments about disarray. I have a need to push my abilities past the point of success. If I am not failing half the time, I get a bit anxious (and bored). I know I over do it sometimes. I tend to neglect many of the things that are not in my focus simply because I am focusing. But the disarray that comes from exertion and failure is a necessity for me.

I know I have to tone it down. But it is hard to do.

[Antisocial one]

This is what I would do when I was in college. I'd usually mostly procrastinate studying until the night before, so I'd study until I got tired, catch a few hours' sleep, then get up and study a couple of hours before the test, to cram it into my short term memory.



We just like to keep our options open. Regimented plans make us feel trapped, and they take all the fun out of things. My sister's an ISTJ, and plans enable her to have fun, because they give her structure and boundaries between which she can open up and enjoy herself. Having plans that can't ever be modified or broken makes me feel like I've been put in a cage.

One of my mom's good friends is the most J person I think I've ever met, and she wanted me to help her plan a bridal shower one time. We nearly drove each other nuts. She wanted to decide every little detail, months and months in advance. She wanted to have the food, the decorations, the tablecloths, etc. etc. all figured out, budgeted for, etc., nearly six months in advance. And this was a very informal shower, less than 50 people, held at the church. I just couldn't see the need for that amount of rigid planning for something that was not a life or death situation. I knew that we had some good resources, and that the shower was going to be a success, no matter what, and that we had some time to mull it over before we had to come to any major decisions.

One thing I think Js don't realize is that Ps will very often be mulling stuff over in our heads, thinking of the possibilities for as long as we can. It might not look like we're doing anything, because you don't see immediate results. But when the deadline hits, we'll have your result, and it'll be just as good.

I think you will be suprised how much I undestand.

As I have said before often Ps think that they have J/P conflict and what they actally have is S/N conflict.
The thing you have described with you example in not J it is OCD.
Just because someone plans alot that does not mean that they are actually good planners.

J changes very much depending on the other 3 letters.

Everything you have said applys to me also and I am strong J.
One of the things I am trying to prove with this thread is that being J has nothing to do with the ability to be open minded. J is more about beign determined or not being spontaneous.
For example: knowing when to plan and how to plan or not planning just because you want to get simpathy of Ps that could prove useful in the future.


The only differnces between us is that I will use more fanaticism more contigency planning and be more open minded toward the idea of conflict.

[Tallulah]

I think you will be suprised how much I undestand.

As I have said before often Ps think that they have J/P conflict and what they actally have is S/N conflict.
The thing you have described with you example in not J it is OCD.
Just because someone plans alot that does not mean that they are actually good planners.

J changes very much depending on the other 3 letters.

Everything you have said applys to me also and I am strong J.
One of the things I am trying to prove with this thread is that being J has nothing to do with the ability to be open minded. J is more about beign determined or not being spontaneous. For example: knowing when to plan and how to plan or not planning just because you want to get simpathy of Ps that could prove useful in the future.


The only differnces between us is that I will use more fanaticism more contigency planning and be more open minded toward the idea of conflict.


Ah, okay. I think I see what you mean. Do you feel like you need structure/planning in most situations? Or prefer to have a goal in mind? A lot of Js I know, when they go on vacation, tend to have a list of things they want to see/accomplish, and tend to want to leave the house by a certain time in order to maximize efficiency and make the destination by sundown, etc. Of course, the Js I know might also have a touch of OCD. :smile:

I have to say, though, the NFJs are generally pretty go-with-the-flow, IME. They might think about in advance how it might go, and might make loose plans, but then they're pretty flexible, which makes them fun to travel with.

The conflict thing is interesting to me. I just don't know if I have enough evidence to say, one way or another. I generally hate conflict, and am flexible to a fault. But if someone gets really rigid with me, that's when I'll usually snap and have a moment of snark at the over-planner. :smile:

[Antisocial one]

Ah, okay. I think I see what you mean. Do you feel like you need structure/planning in most situations? Or prefer to have a goal in mind? A lot of Js I know, when they go on vacation, tend to have a list of things they want to see/accomplish, and tend to want to leave the house by a certain time in order to maximize efficiency and make the destination by sundown, etc. Of course, the Js I know might also have a touch of OCD. :smile:

I have to say, though, the NFJs are generally pretty go-with-the-flow, IME. They might think about in advance how it might go, and might make loose plans, but then they're pretty flexible, which makes them fun to travel with.

If I don't plan I am finished. I simply can't do anything right without plan.
I would even dare to say that I don't know how to do anything without some plan.
This is probably because I get 100% J on tests, or the other way around.


On the other hand structure is not too important because there always have to be updates of the plan to gain more efficiency or to avoid some serious problems.
Usually Ps think that all J are totally in love with structure, what is not completly true.


If I have too think something to great detail I will do it just like Ps.
Also I will ensure that I take enough time because screw up is something that I can't allow to happen. This is because that would mean efficiency=0.

Because of this Introversion is actually very usefull tool because it gives you time to think and reduces the number of chaotic variables.(read - not going to vacations)
Since I am geology student the field work we have to do is acually my vacation.

Plus there are N and T to control the process.

This is probably the main reason why all of my letter are above 80% ,interaction is simply too efficient.

In short, goal is actually the only thing that really matters.
But you must be cereful because you need be sure that you have the right goal.

[Mort Belfry]

It's the quick closing of options that annoys me about TJs especially.

At work, whenever I'm trying to load pieces of equipment with software or keys and a lot of equipment is faulty, I'll leave some desk space set up throughout the day for it, just because to get things done correctly means to have the equipment set up delicately.

But there is an XSTJ that always cleans up this mess I leave and so it takes the time to set it all back up again.



I also like a mess just because you don't know what you're going to need later on and if you throw it out earlier just to make a tidier space it seems unbeneficial. My desk at work is an absolute sty, with terminals, power supplies everywhere, but often somebody will be looking for an obscure piece of equipment that can be hard to find otherwise, but I can just pull it out instantaneously from the mass of mess on my desk.

[Antisocial one]

I am finding this thread quite interesting.
So I am asking Ps(and Js) that they read this big post.(I am author)

The story is that one INFP wanted to become more thick skined in life and it was searching for advices.

I am sure that many people will not agree with many things that are said here. What is actually on trial here is the way of thinking.




This is good since it looked like you are totally lost in your life because you have P at 80% but you are bordering J.
However there is a possibility that this information is not accurate because you want to be more J.
And if person take a look at that well developed F, this scenario is probable.


I think that something must be said before I get to my point.
People with P usually say that they must be flexible and that everything would be lost without that. And they see people with high J as short sided idiots. That can be true in case when you have high S and you are very J. But if you have strong N and strong T strong J can be controlled by those two and become very useful.
In case that this is not true ENTJ and INTJ would never be what they are.


Here is how J is thinking.

Instead to prepare for bad scenarios and living in fear they create plans to get an advantage in their life. After that when they get to place where they want to be they use their good position to get even better position.
While P just waits his big problem and hopes that he/she will be ready.
But he will probably lose because he/she stayed at first level where you are most vulnerable which is because you have small amount of options and there is no place to flee.
Once you get to higher position and have 10 000$ per month many basic problems will not even be coming your way.



What this means in real life?

It means that if you stash too many things which could help you in some situations the only thing that is likely is that you will not be able to find it among all those things, at least not in advised time period and you will lose large amount of time on cleaning and repairing those things.

How to organize?
Put things that you need in places where you can easily grab them.
Things which you need less put somewhere where they will be out of the way for everyday operations.
Things you probably will not need soon can be thrown in garbage because if you are going to need them one day they will be broken or obsolete.
Make sure that all things have their own place and that you put them in that place after use.


On the big picture you must determine what you want from life. After you do that try to find best way to get there. Also having a master plan for your life is really not that bad because if you have it you will have standard by which you can judge things. (science and philosophy are exceptions)
For example you must see what jobs you can do whit your education which leads to question "Is this level of education enough for me".
But I don’t have any data here so I can’t help you much in this part.


I see you are strong in verbal intelligence my advice is to use it whenever you can get something from it.
For example I am so J that I plan my conversations. When I know that I will have to argue I scan my database about any information about my “enemy” and what things he/she will likely to support and what are the flaws of that thing or process.
Also you could create list of 15-20 simple jokes and learn them for cases when you feel stuck in social situation.
I also make list of things/facts I want to say to other person and then try to mention them in conversation (this can help you a lot in life).


Don’t hesitate to write facts and information if they are complex.
Try to be aware of others peoples goals, hopes and fears.
If you work in the place where you can be easily accused for something try to see it coming and prepare your defense. By this I mean write it on the paper and try to learn as much facts from it as you can. But try to be short because your point must be represented in small amount of time. And if you know topic well you can turn accusation against the accuser who could be caught by surprise with your actions.
Don’t be too nice because people will start to use you in many ways. And there is good chance that INFP can be too friendly in working environment.
Don’t be too defensive when you know that you are wrong.
Try to be right hand of your boss. By doing this you will probably be first candidate for the promotion and that is what you want.

Also when you start to think this way any job will be much more interesting. Because tensions will be higher what means more excitement.

I know that this advices from INFP perspective can be summarized as “become an Antichrist” but this is exactly what you want.



Strong intrapersonal intelligence can help you a lot to realize what you can and what you can’t do. This is possibly your greatest strength.



What many people don’t realize is that there is entire spectrum of small things that can make HUGE difference.

Having proper body mass is just one of the factors but it is very important in business environment because it dictates how others see you.
But even more important is that you can’t have a good sleep if you are above 20% of your ideal body mass. When you sleep make sure that bed is not too soft.
If it is too soft your back will hurt and you will not be fresh in the morning what can be fatal in many ways.

Don’t be an addict of any legal things that stimulate your senses.
For example I don’t drink coffee at all and I don’t use any pills unless I am sick.
Human body has chemical composition and every time you add something like this you are destroying the balance in your body.
And that can reduce many things (like mental ability) through the rest of the day/life.
I don’t use any of those things but I have more energy and stronger mental abilities then people around me and I think it is just because I avoid those things.
Plus it will save you much time, much money, time you need to buy them and prepare them and time to wash the dishes after coffee.
All of this can take about 1h per day for an average person.
But if you multiply that by 365 you will get 2 weeks of totally free time!!!!
Congratulations, you have just bought yourself time to rest for real during the day and to make your future plans. Same works for smoking, alcohol, drugs/pills.
Try to use same way of thinking about many small things in your life and suddenly you will have a lot of free time.


It is very important to have 3 major meals and 2 minor meals during the day. This will cover your hunger over the day.
Ideal is about 5% sweets , 25% proteins , 30% fruit and vegetables , 40% bread , pasta …
What people don’t get is that their body is chemical factory which can’t work properly if “raw materials” that come in, suck.
This sounds funny but stuff like this could be just what you need to get advantage over others (read: be more productive).
In case you know that ahead of you is situation that needs quick thinking like
exam or meeting try to eat some small amount of meat or cheese before it because that will wake you up.

And don’t think like this “you can do it, you can do it “.
What you need is “Just do it and continue to next task”.

I would advise you to find someone for playing games like chess, risk and monopoly because that will boost your thinking and ability to make plans. Plus you will get used to offense as a way of thinking.

[Neo Genesis]

Yes it is obvious and it is obvious because that is the most basic definition of P.


What I want to know is why.


Plus why Ps tend to like disarray.

There's a certain beauty to it that is difficult to explain. Honestly, for me, there just seems to be something lacking in a structured world. Numbers are boring, predictable, and completely unromantic to me. How far I get in life is not important, but rather the connections I have with other people. I'd much rather communicate with someone from the heart, and the best way for that to happen seems to be if there is no planning involved.

These were just some of the thoughts that went through my head, so they're going to sound rather chopped.

[Curtis_Brandon]

What are everyone's thoughts about this perspective on Ps?

You Might be a "P".... ~ THE MBTI BLOG (http://www.thembtiblog.com/2008/07/you-might-be-p.html)

I realize that it was written more for a laugh than for serious analysis. But based on what has been discussed in this thread so far, it seems kind of off the mark to me.

[Antisocial one]

Why/how is J sucking life/joy out of Ps?


Ps often make this accusation so I ask.

[Neo Genesis]

Why/how is J sucking life/joy out of Ps?


Ps often make this accusation so I ask.

I don't like getting organized, I always feel drained and down afterwards.

[Antisocial one]

I don't like getting organized, I always feel drained and down afterwards.

I know that part but I am looking for something deeper.

[Cimarron]

One of the things I am trying to prove with this thread is that being J has nothing to do with the ability to be open minded. Yes, I would agree with that as well. Especially since I have the tendency of wanting to know the boundaries of a situation, which makes me more aware that I may not be setting good boundaries, and that forces me reconsider the situation. Seems similar to what you've said over the course of the last page.

[Neo Genesis]

I know that part but I am looking for something deeper.

I'm not sure how much deeper it can be. I hate that feeling so I tend to avoid it as much as possible. Thats all it really is.

[Tallulah]

What are everyone's thoughts about this perspective on Ps?

You Might be a "P".... ~ THE MBTI BLOG (http://www.thembtiblog.com/2008/07/you-might-be-p.html)

I realize that it was written more for a laugh than for serious analysis. But based on what has been discussed in this thread so far, it seems kind of off the mark to me.

LOL! It seems pretty accurate to me! :smile:

[untypable]

Uhh. Well, I've tested as P recently. Nevertheless, I've planned to make 50-60hrs work a week for a month now, to pay my credit bills and to have some extra cash for an emergency. I've experimented with how much work I can do after what amount of sleep, for the purpose of squeezing most out of me in the least time possible. I plan to invest my time carefully, for relaxing things to do, something that will improve my ability to work. In the meantime, I'm organizing my monetary arrangements so I'll have the most money after this project.

Afterwards, I plan to divide my time with work and free time more carefully, with me doing 40-46hrs work per week, using little money for my living and saving the rest. I'll invest the money on a one-year education to become a certified systems administrator. Later on, I'll plan to get a day job in systems administration, and continue my education in computer science, to become a Master of Science in about 5 years.

I calculate the rewards and risks for being punctual or random in each case. For example. I felt like drinking 6 beers the last night; today work didn't go well, so I'll have to restrain myself from doing anything like that again. I invite my girlfriend to come at my place and expect her to come at any time; she's late, no worries - I've spent my happily playing computer games. I collapse early due to heavy work earlier in the day; no worries, I ask her to make food this time.

I regret for my GF being uncompetitive and spending money as it comes. I'm into much more organized spending. I want to earn first, then spend. I've planned my general investment strategy, too, and how much money I need to start it up efficiently.

So, this is what it means to be a P for me.

Oh and free time? I'm playing wow. I've calculated what is the most efficient way to get my characters to my goal level, and where they'll be good at. I've deviated from the plan somewhat, and it bothers me. OTOH, I made great gold (virtual ingame money) with some good sales, so I guess it's OK to have altered my plans somewhat.

When have I done the last really impulsive thing? I had a few friends at my house last saturday, and we watched a movie and had a free-flowing chat.

So, 2 hours of impulsive stuff for me last week, and 100 hours planned, goal-orientated stuff, which went about 90-95% as planned.

So should a good P be doing flip-flops on the street, singing and drinking? Doing improvisational comedy in every street corner? Canceling 90% of their meetings? Gambling their money away?


You watched Jack bauer on 24?

[Antisocial one]

I know that Js can annoy Ps but to me it looks that sometimes Ps can be intimidated by
Js. For example rhetoric can too direct. (I know, Ps and Js are quite wide categories)

Is there any truth in this observation?

[entropie]

I know that Js can annoy Ps but to me it looks that sometimes Ps can be intimidated by
Js. For example rhetoric can too direct. (I know, Ps and Js are quite wide categories)

Is there any truth in this observation?

I think feeling intimidation can be a result of various results as a reaction to one particular thing. Namely the J cutting off the options to a given situation and therefore not taking in all the information, but having a decision that ends the given situation.

Reactions can range from recoil, over intimidation, ignore the dumb J or yes he is right. :D

[Amargith]

:yes: I second Entropie's view on this though I would've put it differently ;)
I'd say it sometimes makes you feel like you're a five year old being corrected or pressured by an adult.

[erinavery]

Yeah. I kinda intuitively read that into it though :laugh:

Just to comment on this, though:



This never tends to be really be a problem for me. 99% of my life I'm "coasting". Everything is just too easy, most of the time. So there's no need to TRY. But should the need to try arise, I've a good track record of being able to just move up a gear and pwn stuff. It's like what happens is, usually I'm just aware that all this "stuff" is around me, going on... I've sorta got one eye on it, I'm aware of it, but it's all cool, I know no intervention is needed. But because I've been watching it all along, when intervention is needed, it's like I'm watching a revolving door. I know exactly when the open part's gonna come back round again, and all I've gotta do is jump when it does. So even when under great pressure, I can still just wait 'til the last minute to make up my mind and jump.

hmmm....

i loved this...and your other one...just perfect. :D

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I know that Js can annoy Ps but to me it looks that sometimes Ps can be intimidated by
Js. For example rhetoric can too direct. (I know, Ps and Js are quite wide categories)

Is there any truth in this observation?

I think intimidation has more to do with being NT than anything else. According to my wife people find me intimidating even though they find me likable as well. It seems like a weird combination to me.

[Uberfuhrer]

Hmm, what is it like to be a P?

Well, I would imagine that you would have a head substantially bigger than the rest of your body, and which would possibly cause vertical imbalance.

[Frank]

Yeah and also doing things for fear of what might happen if you don't do them, that doesn't make much sense to me either... I'd rather being doing things because I like doing them. Cos pretty much anything you can do, like you say, will have unknowable consequences, leading to unforeseeable opportunities... I could pass the exams and go to college and get an ace job... only to have my wife leave me for the mailman and become a prozac-propped executive with a Ferrari and a big fat midlife crisis

I think the bolded portion is where some of the biggest misunderstandings between J&P types stem from. We all do what we like for the most part. J's like crossing things off the list, taking tangible steps towards their goals, plowing ahead etc... It is not usually done out of fear. It is as enjoyable to a J as drinking beer with the homiez. Which, by the way, I also partake in.

[FDG]

Js like to do what they like to do, they (we) just like to do it in a planned manner.

[Lukepd]

where is this country full of Ps, i want to live there?

i'll swap you, i'm surrounded by bloody annoying, controlling, pedantic, dogmatic, narrow-minded, deadline-pushing, style-cramping, anal-retentive Js !!!!

you almost made a thinking type cry... ok I lied... but I can very much relate to this :yes:

edit: actually you know what I find funny, the fact that Js often dislike Ps for the way they do things... but Ps only dislike Js because they keep trying to change the way we do things and won't accept that our way is just as good

[Amargith]

edit: actually you know what I find funny, the fact that Js often dislike Ps for the way they do things... but Ps only dislike Js because they keep trying to change the way we do things and won't accept that our way is just as good

:static:

[Antisocial one]

I think intimidation has more to do with being NT than anything else. According to my wife people find me intimidating even though they find me likable as well. It seems like a weird combination to me.

I know what you mean but here I am talking about J-P .
I think that deficit of spontaneity can freak them out sometimes.
Also the behaviour that is typical Js can be too harsh for them.


This is just a observation.

[GinKuusouka]

I don't like to keep myself closed to options. Things can change at any given point in time, and I prefer to stay open so that I can change right along with it. I generally like going with the flow and find it irritating when someone seems to dislike that attitude. lol I actually have to say that it's pretty sweet all in all.

["?"]

There were some threads about other letters but I think this was never done for the P.

I am trying to understand why they like spontaneous behaviour and dislike or don't want too much organisation around them.

This should be enough to get us started.Do we even dare to argue that by all accounts, you are a "P" since you dominate with a perceiving function (Ni) and since Myers-Briggs only proposes that we should develop our auxililary to be healthy, she never implied that it was a given? Ergo, you may be better at telling dominant judging types (Ti/Fi) what it's like.

[Llewellyn]

If you look up something too much it takes time and you can better aim at what comes across, you'll come across that other thing later.

[Antisocial one]

Do we even dare to argue that by all accounts, you are a "P" since you dominate with a perceiving function (Ni) and since Myers-Briggs only proposes that we should develop our auxililary to be healthy, she never implied that it was a given? Ergo, you may be better at telling dominant judging types (Ti/Fi) what it's like.

Well I was talking about J-P in a standard way. But I guess that this is one way of looking at the things.

On the other hand I have very very well developed Te and Te is not exactly a perciving function. (as far as I know)

[bronte]

where is this country full of Ps, i want to live there?

i'll swap you, i'm surrounded by bloody annoying, controlling, pedantic, dogmatic, narrow-minded, deadline-pushing, style-cramping, anal-retentive Js !!!!

Ditto! Funny I was going to come home tonight and start a thread re how ps cope with very strong Js!

To me alot of P is about being open minded - enjoying imagining the possibilities and going with the flow. Schedules and timetables feel like a straightjacket. I've had a two hour meeting today to set my workload plan for the next year - its the stuff of nightmares for me personally! I know however that at work I have to plan and be responsible so I do - (I work with a couple of Ps who dont at all and drive everybody insane)

At home though and in my personal life I dont - I cant bear it - and have very little routine at all really.

I have a couple of J friends who plan their housework, weekend activities, visits to friends, content of their wardrobe etc - arrrgghhh!!!

I enjoy the NP partnership because the possibilities are endless!!

["?"]

Well I was talking about J-P in a standard way. But I guess that this is one way of looking at the things.

On the other hand I have very very well developed Te and Te is not exactly a perciving function. (as far as I know)Good point, but keep in mind based on your own auxiliary do you strongly consider yourself orderly all of the time and planful? I personally am not that spontaneous but not as deliberate as ITJs, and although I would loathe being micromanaged I prefer organization and structure.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I know what you mean but here I am talking about J-P .
I think that deficit of spontaneity can freak them out sometimes.
Also the behaviour that is typical Js can be too harsh for them.


This is just a observation.

To me J's may seem harsh only in that they are more definite about things that they really should not be definite about. It can make them look like simpletons. However, I think intimidation comes more from the T/F dimension. I can see how an FP would find a TJ intimidating, but I think it has more to do with T and F.

[JivinJeffJones]

I've yet to meet a J who's laughed when a situation has turned entirely to shit. There are exceptions (certainly on this forum), but I find most Js need a good run-up and advance warning to muster any kind of sense of humour at all. But that "Wow, this couldn't be turning out any worse" laugh seems to be the P domain.

[Jack Flak]

Do we even dare to argue that by all accounts, you are a "P" since you dominate with a perceiving function (Ni) and since Myers-Briggs only proposes that we should develop our auxililary to be healthy, she never implied that it was a given? Ergo, you may be better at telling dominant judging types (Ti/Fi) what it's like.
Well, I argue that Myers got it wrong there, causing a shit-ton of erroneous notions which have spread like a plague through type study on the whole.

[Orangey]

I've yet to meet a J who's laughed when a situation has turned entirely to shit. There are exceptions (certainly on this forum), but I find most Js need a good run-up and advance warning to muster any kind of sense of humour at all. But that "Wow, this couldn't be turning out any worse" laugh seems to be the P domain.

This is very much true. When plans go awry, J's (or at least people who I think are J's) find very little humor in the state of the situation.

[Amargith]

This is very much true. When plans go awry, J's (or at least people who I think are J's) find very little humor in the state of the situation.


True, very true. This morning, my boyfriend (J) overslept, causing him to miss his plane. He could book one later, but this caused his entire scedule to be at jeopardy. Oddly enough, I did the same thing on Friday and was unable to meet my ride to get to Holland, causing me to miss the morning part of a class I am following.

Though we were both equally pissed and stressed in the beginning, I was able to figure out a train route to Holland and still enjoy the class in the afternoon and get home in a good mood. He on the other hand did figure out how to get another plane, but I know that if I call him tonight, he's still going to be stressed and in a foul mood.

[FDG]

To me J's may seem harsh only in that they are more definite about things that they really should not be definite about.

It's a bit ironic that this statement is excessively definite, too - that "should" :cheese:

[Antisocial one]

However, I think intimidation comes more from the T/F dimension. I can see how an FP would find a TJ intimidating, but I think it has more to do with T and F.

Once again is see your argument and I agree with it but not completly.
It is true that F/T can make things much worse.
But even TPs can be intimidated if what you are planning lacks spontaneity for a larger degree.
But what is actually intimidating is that when plan works it is an attack on their way of doing things.
Ps usually feel uncomfortable with killing options and yet I am killing options and it still works. Probably intimidation is too hard word for this, but this can make them uncomfortable to some degree. What is again a form of intimidation.
The trick is not in killing of option(s) or not it is in when option should be killed.


True, very true. This morning, my boyfriend (J) overslept, causing him to miss his plane. He could book one later, but this caused his entire scedule to be at jeopardy. Oddly enough, I did the same thing on Friday and was unable to meet my ride to get to Holland, causing me to miss the morning part of a class I am following.

Though we were both equally pissed and stressed in the beginning, I was able to figure out a train route to Holland and still enjoy the class in the afternoon and get home in a good mood. He on the other hand did figure out how to get another plane, but I know that if I call him tonight, he's still going to be stressed and in a foul mood.


Would you mind telling me his type?
I will accept guess if you don't know.

[Amargith]

Would you mind telling me his type?
I will accept guess if you don't know.

INTJ :) Efficiency is his middle name, so him being late for a plane is something he takes very personally and beats himself up for, which he then in turn took out on the airline he was flying with as their emergency phoneline was not manned, causing him to wait till they actually got in at 9 am and answered the phone in order to resolve the mess *grin*

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Once again is see your argument and I agree with it but not completly.
It is true that F/T can make things much worse.
But even TPs can be intimidated if what you are planning lacks spontaneity for a larger degree.
But what is actually intimidating is that when plan works it is an attack on their way of doing things.
Ps usually feel uncomfortable with killing options and yet I am killing options and it still works. Probably intimidation is too hard word for this, but this can make them uncomfortable to some degree. What is again a form of intimidation.
The trick is not in killing of option(s) or not it is in when option should be killed.


This is probably true, but it just as easily goes the other way. J's get scared when P's don't have much of a plan or when the change the plan in the middle of the activity. The "intimidation" goes both ways equally.

It's a bit ironic that this statement is excessively definite, too - that "should" :cheese:

People interpret the word "should" with different levels of definiteness. I doubt I meant it the way you are thinking.

[Amargith]

So wouldn't it be a lot more productive to have J's draw up the plans to follow, and P's step up to the plate when things go awry, so that J's don't have to stress?

(I am aware this is easier said than done)

[spirilis]

So wouldn't it be a lot more productive to have J's draw up the plans to follow, and P's step up to the plate when things go awry, so that J's don't have to stress?

(I am aware this is easier said than done)

That happens to me at work somewhat frequently ;)

[Antisocial one]

This is probably true, but it just as easily goes the other way. J's get scared when P's don't have much of a plan or when the change the plan in the middle of the activity. The "intimidation" goes both ways equally.

I think that culture plays a huge role here. I can see why somebody could say this. Especially if they are from country with high degree of organistion.(like US)

But where I live everything is totally P.
People are easy going, public transportation has a schedule but in practice there is a chaos out there,everything is negotionable and everybody just want to survive a day. Even public institutions have a fair amount of P.

It is totally ESTP culture.

I was raised in this kind of environment so I am not planner that must make plans that have everything down to the last detail.
In this kind of environment and with that kind of thinking you wouldn't get far in most cases.
So I am always creating plans that are very flexibile and I am always changing them as I go through them and I can't do something without some kind of a plan.
I think this has actually made ma a good planner because I know that I can't have it exactly as I want and yet I always plan.


Why have I used word "intimidation"?

Beacuse the only people who are clearly J in this society are lawyers, bankers and organised crime.

[Lukepd]

I think that culture plays a huge role here. I can see why somebody could say this. Especially if they are from country with high degree of organistion.(like US)

But where I live everything is totally P.
People are easy going, public transportation has a schedule but in practice there is a chaos out there,everything is negotionable and everybody just want to survive a day. Even public institutions have a fair amount of P.

It is totally ESTP culture.

I was raised in this kind of environment so I am not planner that must make plans that have everything down to the last detail.
In this kind of environment and with that kind of thinking you wouldn't get far in most cases.
So I am always creating plans that are very flexibile and I am always changing them as I go through them and I can't do something without some kind of a plan.
I think this has actually made ma a good planner because I know that I can't have it exactly as I want and yet I always plan.


Why have I used word "intimidation"?

Beacuse the only people who are clearly J in this society are lawyers, bankers and organised crime.

You're very much stereotyping.

that said, where do you live? I'm moving there :cheese:

[FDG]

People interpret the word "should" with different levels of definiteness. I doubt I meant it the way you are thinking.

It's okay, I was being half-facetious.

[Darjur]

Antisocial one, now answer me a question about J's.

Would a J do what for example I might do? it's not too rare for me to just wake up saturday in the morning, say fuck it and go spend 1-2 days without any prior thought about the subject in lets say Moscow, Sankt Petersburg, Stockholm, Kaliningrad or whatever, just for the fuck of it? That is also why we don't like heavily planned structures. Because that is exactly what plans would not allows to do.

Now don't get me wrong, I have plans. Fairly detailed and throughout ones. But my plans consist of only two points.
1) Deadline and What I need to present at it.
2) The objective I need to do NOW, to finish any random part of the whole system whatsoever.
Beyond this, there I have NO active plans in my days system. And everything else is basically left to, what I feel like doing.

Another question, tell me this, could a INTJ/ENTJ work like this? This is for example what happened last Friday to me. I woke up at 8 am, wanted to go to work, noticed that I'm too sleepy and felt quite a bit sick. So I screwed over work, slept an extra 8 hours that day, went to work at 7pm and worked till 6 am. In essence, I did all of the work I myself wanted to do and spent an extra 5 hours in it just because I felt like it and I actually did nearly twice the amount of work I had originally wanted to do that day. I would in essence have destroyed any plans for the day if I had absolutely any set up prior wise, but if I had actually followed the hypothetical plan, I would have done maybe 1/5th of the work I did, because I would have felt like shit. Would you consider this to be an acceptable way of doing things? Even if it might actually be more productive?

Last question, how about you fucking tell us what country is it that you're from. Because the term country X is getting annoying.

[Antisocial one]

Would a J do what for example I might do? it's not too rare for me to just wake up saturday in the morning, say fuck it and go spend 1-2 days without any prior thought about the subject in lets say Moscow, Sankt Petersburg, Stockholm, Kaliningrad or whatever, just for the fuck of it? That is also why we don't like heavily planned structures. Because that is exactly what plans would not allows to do.

When it comes to this the answer can be 10 pages long but I will try to keep it short.
The point of planning is not to kill options it is about realizing complex ideas into reality.But even strong J (like me) can do something like this if it looks like a good idea.
Big picture plans must be flexibile because you won't get far without it.
But in everyday sitations you can see where things are going and you can create a plan to get things done (or what ever you wnat to do).
I don't have problems with the idea of changing the plan if better one can be created. But total spontaneity is something that is foreign to me.



Another question, tell me this, could a INTJ/ENTJ work like this? This is for example what happened last Friday to me. I woke up at 8 am, wanted to go to work, noticed that I'm too sleepy and felt quite a bit sick. So I screwed over work, slept an extra 8 hours that day, went to work at 7pm and worked till 6 am. In essence, I did all of the work I myself wanted to do and spent an extra 5 hours in it just because I felt like it and I actually did nearly twice the amount of work I had originally wanted to do that day. I would in essence have destroyed any plans for the day if I had absolutely any set up prior wise, but if I had actually followed the hypothetical plan, I would have done maybe 1/5th of the work I did, because I would have felt like shit. Would you consider this to be an acceptable way of doing things? Even if it might actually be more productive?


Of course, Js don't make plans because they want plans. They make them to be more efficient in their work. Working while you are tired is the most stupid choice you can make unless you have a deadline. Because your work will probably have deficit of quality and it will take much longer to complete.
So you are not actually working and you are not resting = complete waste of time.


Last question, how about you fucking tell us what country is it that you're from. Because the term country X is getting annoying.

I am from Croatia, I have said it in other threads but since you are new you you probably didn't come across those posts.
But don't take my words to be true about the country since I have tested as 100% J on few occasions.

[FDG]

Another question, tell me this, could a INTJ/ENTJ work like this? This is for example what happened last Friday to me. I woke up at 8 am, wanted to go to work, noticed that I'm too sleepy and felt quite a bit sick. So I screwed over work, slept an extra 8 hours that day, went to work at 7pm and worked till 6 am. In essence, I did all of the work I myself wanted to do and spent an extra 5 hours in it just because I felt like it and I actually did nearly twice the amount of work I had originally wanted to do that day.

Did any colleague depend on you being at work? Or w