I swear

[Xander]

Okay so usually I'm the kind of person who refrains from swearing lots believing it good practice and good manners (not that I ever understood the latter). However I've had my perceptions of swearing challenged by simply watching a man who enjoys language.. Mr Stephen Fry.

As he argues swearing is nothing to do with a poor vocabulary and in fact is often indicative of the opposite. He also points out that although many say it is unnecessary that such is a ridiculous remark as coloured socks are unnecessary.

The largest revelation, which is one that I'm still mulling over, is that he states that most people who claim to be offended by swearing itself (this is obviously apart from them being offended by what message the words may be conveying) are usually offended because of what they think other's reactions will be. This kind of rings true to me with most castisements comming from people with the lines of "What would your mother think?" or "You wouldn't say that to X would you?".

Anyhow I thought I'd just open this up to you guys and see what you think.

Is swearing part of the language to be used with freedom and relish?
Is swearing intrinsically wrong?
If you do object to swearing is it more the poor usage (like using one certain common four letter word as punctuation) or is it just swearing itself?
What do you think to the idea that being offended by swearing is more social responsibility than being offended by the words yourself?

[Jack Flak]

You're right, of course. Good artists don't even really use it for shock value, it's a stylistic choice.

[Victor]

You're right, of course. Good artists don't even really use it for shock value, it's a stylistic choice.

Yes, this is quite right.

And a good artist never swears unintentionally.

[ajblaise]

Swearing makes anything funnier and more interesting, if it's not overdone (See: Bob Saget).

[Xander]

Well, just to echo the first two responses, I was always of the opinion that South Park was funnier with the beeps in rather than the "uncensored" version. Somehow that program passes from funny usage of expletives to just unending torrent in some vain attempt to be shocking.

[Victor]

The only time in my entire life that my father swore at me was when I backed his new car into a tree.

I never forgot it.

[6sticks]

He also points out that although many say it is unnecessary that such is a ridiculous remark as coloured socks are unnecessary.
Swearing is a hell of a lot more necessary than colored socks.

[Athenian200]

I think it's okay to use language like that casually with people that you know don't mind it. If you're in public or you don't know if the person minds, then it's in poor taste to use it.

Using such words as insults should be done only in the direst circumstances, if at all.

[Xander]

The only time in my entire life that my father swore at me was when I backed his new car into a tree.

I never forgot it.
:rofl1:
Something to add to the 'Sensotard' thread?
Swearing is a hell of a lot more necessary than colored socks.
Well not really. Most of the usage of swearing is entirely innappropriate and an abuse to swearing properly. Artful usage however is entertaining, colourful (note the U in that... bloomin colonic spellers) and adds spice to conversation. In fact, continuing with the spice analogy, good usage brings out the flavour, poor usage drowns it.

[Xander]

I think it's okay to use language like that with people that you know don't mind it. If you're in public or you don't know if the person minds, then it's in poor taste to use it.
Have you never wondered though why a simple word can cause so much panic? I mean I realise that it does and some of the people I hold very dear to me are offended by it but I go along with this concept of decency more out of feeling responsible to their emotional state than actually finding the word innappropriate (though I do wonder if that is the core definition of the classification "innappropriate").

When I am put off by swearing, upon fresh analysis, I conclude it's more because of it's poor use than the fact that it is swearing. The response is similar to when people use any language poorly.

[6sticks]

Well not really. Most of the usage of swearing is entirely innappropriate and an abuse to swearing properly. Artful usage however is entertaining, colourful (note the U in that... bloomin colonic spellers) and adds spice to conversation. In fact, continuing with the spice analogy, good usage brings out the flavour, poor usage drowns it.
Yeah, but countinuing with the analogy, add coloured soucks to soup and the flavour is souddenly unsavourably sour. Sou coloured soucks are absoulutely useless, you getting me guvnah?

[Athenian200]

When I am put off by swearing, upon fresh analysis, I conclude it's more because of it's poor use than the fact that it is swearing. The response is similar to when people use any language poorly.

I suppose that is the real reason why people are offended... it's just that swearing is most likely to be charged with the connotation of being poor use in and of itself, and thus using that kind of language is a pushing it a bit, even if you don't mean it poorly. Poor use of language is always inappropriate, of course.

[Xander]

Yeah, but countinuing with the analogy, add coloured soucks to soup and the flavour is souddenly unsavourably sour. Sou coloured soucks are absoulutely useless, you getting me guvnah?
:D I see your problem. What about spicy socks though? The socks are useful but are the spices really necessary?
:newwink:
I suppose that is the real reason why people are offended... it's just that swearing is most likely to be charged with the connotation of being poor use in and of itself, and thus using that kind of language is a pushing it a bit, even if you don't mean it poorly. Poor use of language is always inappropriate, of course.
I guess then the question becomes, what is good use of swearing?

[Athenian200]

I guess then the question becomes, what is good use of swearing?

Well, when it's used to express frustration at a situation or quality (rather than as an insult), around people one knows don't mind it being used in this fashion, although not too many times close together. It can be used when alone in any sense, of course.

It's never really good to use it as an insult, but if someone deliberately does something aggravating to you, and you curse at them, it's rather understandable if not proper.

[Xander]

Well, when it's used to express frustration at a situation or quality (rather than as an insult), around people one knows don't mind it being used in this fashion, although not too many times close together. It can be used when alone in any sense, of course.

It's never really good to use it as an insult, but if someone deliberately does something aggravating to you, and you curse at them, it's rather understandable if not proper.
*hoping this is treated as in context and not cause the thread to shift to the graveyard*

So you've never known anyone deserving of the title arsehole? That would be fortunate indeed. The simple matter is that some things deserve the use of stronger language. Personally I think the problem is that it's being used for more frequent and rather more lame circumstances and hence is becoming increasingly less popular but more prevalent (if that makes sense).

[Athenian200]

So you've never known anyone deserving of the title arsehole? That would be fortunate indeed. The simple matter is that some things deserve the use of stronger language. Personally I think the problem is that it's being used for more frequent and rather more lame circumstances and hence is becoming increasingly less popular but more prevalent (if that makes sense).

Actually, I would mutter "arsehole" under my breath as a censored way of saying a$$hole. Yes, of course I have known people who deserved to be called that. But the question is, am I willing to give them what they deserve, right then and there, and possibly make them mad enough to do something to me, or should I hold my tongue and swallow it to keep things going smoothly? That's always the big question, with any insult or negative remark, but especially with cursing.

[colmena]

I have a huge respect for sweary powers.

It's a gift.

[Xander]

Actually, I would mutter "arsehole" under my breath as a censored way of saying a$$hole. Yes, of course I have known people who deserved to be called that. But the question is, am I willing to give them what they deserve, right then and there, and possibly make them mad enough to do something to me, or should I hold my tongue and swallow it to keep things going smoothly? That's always the big question, with any insult or negative remark, but especially with cursing.
So it would be fair to say you are more concerned with their reaction than any integral distaste for the word itself?

[Kyrielle]

When placed and timed appropriately, swear words can really make a powerful impact on what you say. They can make what you've just said funnier, more frightening, more important, more powerful, more serious. Swear words do a lot of things that other words might not necessarily achieve. However, when they are overused, it can make what someone is saying annoying, limp, and tiresome at best. For example, the overuse of "fuck" is just as irritating to me as the overuse of "like" in sentences. In my book, they stem from the same problem: a difficulty articulating one's thoughts or emotions in a concise and accurate manner.

I think there's also a bit of an association with an informal attitude with swearing. I think that's why work places would rather you not swear. Not because it's neccessarily offensive, but because it's too informal, just like wearing your old t-shirt, shorts, and sandals to work is too informal.

I'm sure there are a number of other cultural associations with swearing. The association of such words with the lower-class, criminals, and/or otherwise unsavory folk, for example.

[Ilah]

I think swear words should be used very sparring, for people, things or situation that really deserve it. I have a strong dislike for people who use it several times in sentance, using it without any meaning.

I think there are times when strong langauge seems appropriate, when saying things like "he is not a nice person" or "this is messed up" waters down message. I could always say those things using stronger langauge without swearing though. There is kind of a science to coming up with really bad insults without actually using swear words.

Still I swear rarely and only with certain people, not others. I don't really swear on line. I sometimes use [censored] or [insert favorite swear word here] in place of a swear word on-line when I felt the situation called for one.

Now I am more likely to use :censored: which stands out a bit more, especially since I don't use emoticons very much.

Ilah

[whatever]

Swearing definitley has it's place, and I think that the idea that it's something unsavory or unsophisticated is a rather elitist attitude on the whole thing.

Not to quote the same person who I quoted for my signature, but this pretty much sums it up:

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. - Mark Twain

I don't think I could trust someone who merely says "ouch!" upon squashing thier finger with a hammer, or who refrains from calling the biggest assholes out there what they really are. Words exist for a reason- there's no reason not to use them.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I've never agreed with the statement that swearing is indicative of poor vocabulary. Sometimes, simply no other word will do to convey the intended meaning. However, I do think they should be used sparingly to preserve their impact. I swear and I don't mind people who do, but I really dislike when people overuse them, like when people use the F word as a generic adjective five times in a sentence.

But even though I think swearing is okay, I don't understand this at all:

I don't think I could trust someone who merely says "ouch!" upon squashing thier finger with a hammer, or who refrains from calling the biggest assholes out there what they really are. Words exist for a reason- there's no reason not to use them.

[Uberfuhrer]

I don't understand swearing or rather why people frown upon swearing. They are just more words to add to the English language and many others.

English is a language that reportedly has a reputation for sounding ugly and bland...swearing adds color to it (hence, colorful expressions)

Personally, I'd rather live in a world in color than a world in black-and-white.

So, what are everyone's favorite swear words?

[MacGuffin]

FUCK

[Uberfuhrer]

FUCK

Can we push a little harder?

My favorite word starts with a "C."

[MacGuffin]

Can we push a little harder?

My favorite word starts with a "C."

Cock, eh? That's kinda gay.

[Metamorphosis]

I think hating swear words is ridiculous. What even makes a swear word?

If I said "Fuck that!" it would be worse than if I said "Hell no!"

If I said "I fucked her," it would be worse than if I said "I slept with her."

In both examples the meaning is essentially the same, just worded differently...but some options are inherently bad because...they just are?

If people can't use context clues to judge the meaning of a word then that is their problem.

It's the suppression of a word that gives it power.

[Gen]

You're right, of course.

:doh: Don't SAY that!

[Athenian200]

So it would be fair to say you are more concerned with their reaction than any integral distaste for the word itself?

Huh. I suppose so. That would apply not only to swear words, but to pretty much everything I do or think.

Why would I bother to assess anything at all in such terms as preferable/undesirable, except for concern with the reaction other people have to it? If other people aren't involved, things simply are a certain way and have certain qualities, or they are not and do not.

[Tallulah]

I don't swear much myself, and I wouldn't say I'm necessarly offended by swearing, but I do get irritated, like EffEm, at people who say the F-word a bazillion times a minute. I tend to avoid forums where that's the only adjective people seem to know. It just gets on my nerves.

[Xander]

Um guys, despite the topic can we manage our urges to just post profanities... it's kinda the point... it's outta place.

When placed and timed appropriately, swear words can really make a powerful impact on what you say. They can make what you've just said funnier, more frightening, more important, more powerful, more serious. Swear words do a lot of things that other words might not necessarily achieve. However, when they are overused, it can make what someone is saying annoying, limp, and tiresome at best. For example, the overuse of "fuck" is just as irritating to me as the overuse of "like" in sentences. In my book, they stem from the same problem: a difficulty articulating one's thoughts or emotions in a concise and accurate manner.
Do not visit Birmingham nor Newcastle. Trust me...

:newwink:
I think there's also a bit of an association with an informal attitude with swearing. I think that's why work places would rather you not swear. Not because it's neccessarily offensive, but because it's too informal, just like wearing your old t-shirt, shorts, and sandals to work is too informal.
I think that's a big part of it in the UK. It's sort of like the topic of sex.. you can bring it up with your nearest and dearest but otherwise it's a bit taboo and tends to leave people feeling uncomfortable like you just intruded upon their space or something.
I'm sure there are a number of other cultural associations with swearing. The association of such words with the lower-class, criminals, and/or otherwise unsavory folk, for example.
This was something brought up in another conversation.. it may have even come up in the same program.. anyhow... the theory goes that if you want rid of something then make it seem indicative of lower classes.. undesirables. They're doing it now with smoking (you only now see the downtrodden smoke.. the posh and well to do don't inhale apparently) and drug use. I have to wonder if that's one of the functions of an underclass.. to give a place to gather all the unwanted attributes then point and tut repeatedly.

Huh. I suppose so. That would apply not only to swear words, but to pretty much everything I do or think.
You must get nasty splinters from repeatedly sitting on that T/F fence you've found :newwink:
Why would I bother to assess anything at all in such terms as preferable/undesirable, except for concern with the reaction other people have to it? If other people aren't involved, things simply are a certain way and have certain qualities, or they are not and do not.
Hole in head... undesirable. Being there for your 100 birthday... priceless.

:smile:

[INTJMom]

...
I think there's also a bit of an association with an informal attitude with swearing. I think that's why work places would rather you not swear. Not because it's neccessarily offensive, but because it's too informal, just like wearing your old t-shirt, shorts, and sandals to work is too informal.

I'm sure there are a number of other cultural associations with swearing. The association of such words with the lower-class, criminals, and/or otherwise unsavory folk, for example.
Those are good points.

[Firelie]

Those are good points.

That's ALL you have to say on this topic? You have a profanity filter linked in your signature! :rofl1:

[INTJMom]

That's ALL you have to say on this topic? You have a profanity filter linked in your signature! :rofl1:
That does seem rather funny, doesn't it?

I'm still mulling.

[INTJMom]

... Mr. Stephen Fry.

As he argues swearing is nothing to do with a poor vocabulary and in fact is often indicative of the opposite. He also points out that although many say it is unnecessary that such is a ridiculous remark as coloured socks are unnecessary.
I can’t agree with this. Almost all great works of literature have been written with absolutely no vulgarity or profanity in them.

Though perhaps in this day and age of ignorant and ill-educated people who can no longer understand the authors from hundreds of years ago, perhaps he has a point. You must use the vocabulary of the people you are speaking to. Perhaps being vulgar is part of the collective consciousness now.

The largest revelation, which is one that I'm still mulling over, is that he states that most people who claim to be offended by swearing itself (this is obviously apart from them being offended by what message the words may be conveying) are usually offended because of what they think other's reactions will be. This kind of rings true to me with most chastisements coming from people with the lines of "What would your mother think?" or "You wouldn't say that to X would you?". I agree that that is a big reason. It’s something I think of as societal pressure. Whatever society accepts is acceptable. Whatever society rejects is rejected. Unfortunately, society seems to be spinning headlong down a flushing toilet.

Just to clarify… at first I thought that “swearing” was “taking the Lord’s name in vain”, but in later posts, people seem to be referring to all swearing and vulgarity under the one umbrella of “swearing”.

Is swearing part of the language to be used with freedom and relish?I don’t believe so. I hope it never comes to that. But more and more words get added to the realm of everyday usage with frightening frequency. There’s no stopping it once it gets to prime time television.
Is swearing intrinsically wrong?As one who believes in God and in the Holy Bible, yes. I believe that people are warned not to use God’s name wrongfully in the Ten Commandments. I believe this is the reason why taking God’s name in vain was socially unacceptable for so long. As societies have moved away from the fear of God, people are losing this restraint. For disciples of Jesus, it is also recommended for them not to use profane, vulgar or coarse language.

If you do object to swearing is it more the poor usage (like using one certain common four letter word as punctuation) or is it just swearing itself? I think for the most part that people are conditioned by exposure to accept whatever they are exposed to unless they are motivated for some reason to reject it.

For myself, there are certain harsh sounding words with a “K” sound in them which when said with anger make me feel threatened and frightened. The first time I ever saw “s-cks” on a forum, I had a physical reaction akin to being punched in the stomach. (That was about 8 years ago before its use was so common.)

I don’t really care to listen for long to an individual whose language is full of “swearing” for no other reason than the fact that they can’t think of a less abrasive or more appropriate word.

When I was 15 years old, a man moved in next door who used the f-word in almost every sentence. He was ignorant and it was a staple of his vocabulary. Until that time, the only people I knew of who used that word were rough, hard people who I had never met, and was not supposed to associate with, like prison convicts.

My family never used vulgar language or slang. My mother is a highly intelligent ISTJ who reads the encyclopedia recreationally! We were not even allowed to use the word “butt”! (We could say “fanny”, for those of you who are wondering.) I was once punished for saying the word “fart” in front of my mother.

A possible factor is that my mother’s first language was French, and I assure you, in her native tongue I heard the most creative ways of being profane that a person can imagine, but only when she was enraged.

What do you think to the idea that being offended by swearing is more social responsibility than being offended by the words yourself?That is probably true since I don’t think most people care about the weight of their words.

…
Well not really. Most of the usage of swearing is entirely inappropriate and an abuse to swearing properly. Artful usage however is entertaining, colourful (note the U in that... bloomin colonic spellers) and adds spice to conversation. In fact, continuing with the spice analogy, good usage brings out the flavour, poor usage drowns it.
I see what you are saying, but I think that audience is still quite small at this point. It’s my observation that the fine distinction is lost on most people.

Have you never wondered though why a simple word can cause so much panic? I mean I realise that it does and some of the people I hold very dear to me are offended by it but I go along with this concept of decency more out of feeling responsible to their emotional state than actually finding the word inappropriate (though I do wonder if that is the core definition of the classification "inappropriate").
If a person has chosen to leave a certain word out of their vocabulary out of a desire to please God, or at least to not offend him, then I think it’s understandable that they would be bothered by people around them making light of something they themselves deem quite serious. Every day we do things so as to not be offensive to the people around us such as bathe and brush our teeth. Every society has their dictates. Mr. Fry is obviously about the business of breaking down the restraints.

How casually does someone hear the f-word who has been a victim of rape or incest?

When I hear words that have been used against me in anger, in order to demean and demoralize, they bring back a rush of feelings from the past and re-open the wounds.

Words happen to be especially important to me, though I realize they mean almost nothing to others. It is those others who can’t understand or relate to my feelings who might ridicule me for thinking and feeling the way I do. There’s nothing I can do or say to make them understand.

I guess then the question becomes, what is good use of swearing?A good use would be to communicate on the level of your hearer, to make yourself understood, I can imagine.

I must confess that I am not perfect in taming my tongue, and in the past 10 years, I have used a vulgar or profane word perhaps a half dozen times because I believed the depth of my feeling would not be conveyed any other way that I could conceive of at the time.

Sometimes when I am angry, frustrated, depressed and “beside myself” I can lose control of my tongue. I did use the word d-mned the other day, when normally I would have used darned instead, or nothing at all. I was trying to convey the fact that I was “beside myself”. It was a cry of frustration, a cry for help. So just in case anybody thought that I think I’m perfect, I know I’m not.

The reason I use a profanity filter on my browser is because I don’t want to become inoculated to certain words. The people in the circles I move in don’t use those words. When I go to the bank, the grocery store, meet with teachers or administrators, go to church or even when I go to most other forums, most people don’t use vulgar or profane words. I have noticed that if I get around people using vulgar language, I will start using it myself. So in order to prevent that, I try to limit my exposure to it, just as I do in real life.

[takeheart]

I swear a lot. It's not allowed in my household and I've never heard anyone in my family swear, so I definitely didn't pick it up at home. Curse words can add zest and emotion to conversation that nothing else can. They bypass the rational part of the brain and go straight for the emotional centers. However, if I know someone is really upset by curse words, I refrain from using them (which makes ME uncomfortable).

Strangely, I love it when people casually swear. Not at other people, and not if every other word is a curse, but if you throw a few four letter words into conversation, I'll feel much more relaxed around you. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY, but that's how it is! Hearing other people swear makes me happy, probably because they're "breaking the rules". :newwink:

You should hear me when I'm alone in my car. A traffic light turning red earns a blue streak from me!

[Jack Flak]

INTJmom, profanity isn't sub-intelligent lower-class drivel. COCK. See?

[prplchknz]

I curse, rarely at anyone. Mostly inanimate objects. When I'm trying to find something, I don't have time to think of fancy words.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

[COLOR=Navy]I can’t agree with this. Almost all great works of literature have been written with absolutely no vulgarity or profanity in them.

Though perhaps in this day and age of ignorant and ill-educated people who can no longer understand the authors from hundreds of years ago, perhaps he has a point. You must use the vocabulary of the people you are speaking to. Perhaps being vulgar is part of the collective consciousness now.

I would take issue with the first part of this, certainly. What was vulgar or profane many years ago is often different than what is considered vulgar today. Many of Shakespeare's works, for instance, contain language that was considered quite salty in its day. Language changes over time, and I would posit that this is a bigger reason that contemporary audiences have trouble understanding dusty works of literature than the fact that they are "ignorant and ill-educated."

Being vulgar has always been part of the collective consciousness, because there have always been situations and events that inspire anguish, anger and lust. If literature (including television and movies, the literature of the day) is to accurately portray the human condition, then these emotions are sometimes best expressed with the judicious use of vulgarity. You can dance around such emotions with flowery language, but to deny that an emotional, visceral truth is sometimes best conveyed with vulgarity is, I think, to stick one's head in the sand.

Vulgarity, just like any of the seven deadly sins, is no less a part of being human simply because some choose to forego it.

[INTJMom]

INTJmom, profanity isn't sub-intelligent lower-class drivel. COCK. See?
tee-hee

[EffEmDoubleyou]

INTJmom, profanity isn't sub-intelligent lower-class drivel. COCK. See?

There's no need to drag poultry into this discussion.

[colmena]

Swearing is cathartic, for me. Purging the ghastly ghouls from the verbals extractor. Keeps the ticker steady, and nut free and clear for stranger thoughts.

[Victor]

The real problem with swearing is that it is demoralising.

Armies pay a great deal of attention to morale because they know how morale goes, they go.

This is also true of civil society.

In my society swearing is much more common among the uneducated classes. And swearing acts to keep them demoralised so they can be more easily controlled.

Swearing not only demoralises parts of society, it also demoralises the individual who swears.

The individual loses self respect when they swear.

When they swear, they are demonstrating they lack the essential element of emotional intelligence : restraint.

Those who swear are demonstrating to themselves and to society that they are emotionally unintelligent.

And oddly enough those who are uneducated take a perverse pride in being uneducated. Their perversity comes from a deep resentment of the educated, and a desire to bring the educated down to the level of the uneducated. And swearing brings us all down to the same level - swearing is egalitarian.

And unsurprisingly the emotionally unintelligent deeply resent the emotionally intelligent. The emotionally intelligent are a constant rebuke to the emotionally unintelligent.

And what better way to assert one's emotional unintelligence but by swearing. And what better way to discombombulate the emotionally intelligent but by swearing.

But the greatest victory for ressentiment comes when the educated and the emotionally intelligent can be persuaded to swear themselves.

The greatest victory for ressentiment comes when we can be persuaded to destroy our own morale.

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence."
- Sun Tzu.

[Xander]

First off, I don't want this to turn into a slanging match or whatever. I realise you have certain views upon this and I respect that. In fact if you haven't picked this up by now I'm going to hit you with three hundred water balloons with a 50/50 PVA mix.
I can’t agree with this. Almost all great works of literature have been written with absolutely no vulgarity or profanity in them.

Though perhaps in this day and age of ignorant and ill-educated people who can no longer understand the authors from hundreds of years ago, perhaps he has a point. You must use the vocabulary of the people you are speaking to. Perhaps being vulgar is part of the collective consciousness now.
Well by today's standard yes, but not by previous standards. As EffEm points out Shakespeare was quite risque in places with some choice language as was Chaucer.

I think that shows the integration of shocking to everyday.. whether that's bad or not is another matter.
I agree that that is a big reason. It’s something I think of as societal pressure. Whatever society accepts is acceptable. Whatever society rejects is rejected. Unfortunately, society seems to be spinning headlong down a flushing toilet.
Ah those bloomin moderates eh :newwink:

I think the thinking goes that if something isn't immediately detrimental then rule upon it later... of course then they say they can't be arsed which kind of destroys the point no? :D
Just to clarify… at first I thought that “swearing” was “taking the Lord’s name in vain”, but in later posts, people seem to be referring to all swearing and vulgarity under the one umbrella of “swearing”.
Ah. Probably my mistake. I'm grouping all vulgar language as one.. I thought that taking the lord's name in vain was a profanity not swearing? Meh. Semantics.
I don’t believe so. I hope it never comes to that.
You understand the idea of tittivation don't you? I think it's that kind of effect. The problem is the sight of a woman's ankles is now not considered risque. Not much we can do about it. That's kind of why I started this. We can't halt the approach of swearing and new jargon, we can only hope to guide people to use it correctly and in agreed manners... to some extent. If it is thrown in shadow then there it will grow. Only by putting light upon it can we hope to understand and harness it... which is kinda why I alwasy wanted to know what the words meant.

I recall one incident where I got thwacked for asking what 'ruddy' meant. I was even more displeased when I found out that it only could be used for rude purposes. I mean it's not like I was trying to be smart. I'd heard the word and wondered what it meant.
I think for the most part that people are conditioned by exposure to accept whatever they are exposed to unless they are motivated for some reason to reject it.
Well this is the problem I forsee. You tell children that swearing is naughty and it becomes a sweet to be enjoyed whenever you get given the opportunity or can create one. Perhaps if it is just another boring word with proper context then it would not be so enticing?
For myself, there are certain harsh sounding words with a “K” sound in them which when said with anger make me feel threatened and frightened. The first time I ever saw “s-cks” on a forum, I had a physical reaction akin to being punched in the stomach. (That was about 8 years ago before its use was so common.)
I'm going to spend ages now working that one out. Don't tell me, it'll spoil it. Suffice to say that I shall now be saying "material foot covering" for the meanwhile :newwink:
I don’t really care to listen for long to an individual whose language is full of “swearing” for no other reason than the fact that they can’t think of a less abrasive or more appropriate word.
Precisely. That's poor usage and like that I think that any word can become irritating and offensive. To me the word 'logic' is getting like that as it is so often misused and abused. 'Fact' is another one liable to bring my ire.
My family never used vulgar language or slang. My mother is a highly intelligent ISTJ who reads the encyclopedia recreationally! We were not even allowed to use the word “butt”! (We could say “fanny”, for those of you who are wondering.) I was once punished for saying the word “fart” in front of my mother.
My sister aside we're pretty proper with language. It's mostly been a source of entertainment to me as even when my father would hit his thumb with a hammer he would string together swearing in a rhythmic fashion that combined with the little jig would merely make me laugh rather than act in shock.

To this day I prefer to insult someone via more inventive uses of other words rather than use those slightly silly and rather basic and boring words so commonly spread out.
A possible factor is that my mother’s first language was French, and I assure you, in her native tongue I heard the most creative ways of being profane that a person can imagine, but only when she was enraged.
So it's okay to swear as long as you're incomprehensible? That'd be glasgow covered :devil:
It's okay to swear based upon your emotional state?

Even the most rational person fails to create rationals for swearing and yet everyone does... there's got to be something good about it no?
I see what you are saying, but I think that audience is still quite small at this point. It’s my observation that the fine distinction is lost on most people.
Au contrair! I think that in the world of comedy the man with skill to his swearing is far better liked than the brute. Take Billy Connolley for example, sure he swears a lot but with that accent and the manic stories, situations and sentiments which he portrays I think that it works most of the time. After all how can you relay someone's utter frustration without resort to such measures, unless you engage in very foppish measures of acting?
If a person has chosen to leave a certain word out of their vocabulary out of a desire to please God, or at least to not offend him, then I think it’s understandable that they would be bothered by people around them making light of something they themselves deem quite serious. Every day we do things so as to not be offensive to the people around us such as bathe and brush our teeth. Every society has their dictates.
Though I agree with the sentiment I have to wonder how many words a person can ask to be left out of conversation before they become intrusive themselves. You have a profanity filter, this allows you to operate on here with little or no requirement upon others to alter how they act... of course unless you get a thread with nothing but asterisks and then that could be problematic. If someone were to demand that all posts should be filtered for their sensibilities then I think a large backlash would be seen...
Mr. Fry is obviously about the business of breaking down the restraints.
Oh if you saw some of his work you may change your mind. He is a wordsmith first and foremost with a broad and wonderful vocabulary. Better than any other I have witnessed. It was revealed as one of his less known loves on a program that got me thinking. If a man who loved language can love "bad" language then is it really bad?
How casually does someone hear the f-word who has been a victim of rape or incest?
Context definitely rules. I've seen asian's refer to "Pakis" (not sure even how to spell that) and coloureds (#### I hate grouping by skin tone) refer to "niggers" (almost wrote Nigers then :doh: ) but a white teen doing the same is subject to harsh retorts. It's always context driven.. hence how I tend to only swear with those who I know well enough not to put my foot in it.
Words happen to be especially important to me, though I realize they mean almost nothing to others. It is those others who can’t understand or relate to my feelings who might ridicule me for thinking and feeling the way I do. There’s nothing I can do or say to make them understand.
There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

My sympathies.

I would say though that such is indicative of their intellect and not their vocabulary is indicative of their behaviour. My sister is a most caring person but can use such language as I disassociate myself from her.
I must confess that I am not perfect in taming my tongue, and in the past 10 years, I have used a vulgar or profane word perhaps a half dozen times because I believed the depth of my feeling would not be conveyed any other way that I could conceive of at the time.
Oh dear. Another INTJ admits to humanity. That type stereotype is really going out of the window now.

*nudge*

Oh and the cat was still funny. It was more funny because it used a swear word.... even if you didn't realise you'd sent me that one :)
I have noticed that if I get around people using vulgar language, I will start using it myself. So in order to prevent that, I try to limit my exposure to it, just as I do in real life.
That is your way and good on you for sticking to it.

As a parting point, do you think you'd have less problems with swearing if it were kept from straying into religious name calling and wasn't so repetetive? For example I've always loved the word (hope this doesn't ruin your reading btw) "buggeration". It's one I've never wanted to look up in fact. Just in case it ruins a wonderful word. Now is that as bad or is it better because it's more fruity than angry and less used as punctuation?

[Xander]

I swear a lot. It's not allowed in my household and I've never heard anyone in my family swear, so I definitely didn't pick it up at home. Curse words can add zest and emotion to conversation that nothing else can. They bypass the rational part of the brain and go straight for the emotional centers. However, if I know someone is really upset by curse words, I refrain from using them (which makes ME uncomfortable).

Strangely, I love it when people casually swear. Not at other people, and not if every other word is a curse, but if you throw a few four letter words into conversation, I'll feel much more relaxed around you. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY, but that's how it is! Hearing other people swear makes me happy, probably because they're "breaking the rules". :newwink:

You should hear me when I'm alone in my car. A traffic light turning red earns a blue streak from me!
That's something I'd not considered. I know of many people who are perturbed by the use of long words or technical words, heck anything that sounds fancy. You can call them all the names under the sun but it doesn't upset them half as much as accusing them of obfuscation. That really makes them go hostile... and they don't even know what it means!!

[INTJMom]

First off, I don't want this to turn into a slanging match or whatever. I realise you have certain views upon this and I respect that. In fact if you haven't picked this up by now I'm going to hit you with three hundred water balloons with a 50/50 PVA mix.

Well by today's standard yes, but not by previous standards. As EffEm points out Shakespeare was quite risque in places with some choice language as was Chaucer.

I think that shows the integration of shocking to everyday.. whether that's bad or not is another matter.

Ah those bloomin moderates eh :newwink:

I think the thinking goes that if something isn't immediately detrimental then rule upon it later... of course then they say they can't be arsed which kind of destroys the point no? :D

Ah. Probably my mistake. I'm grouping all vulgar language as one.. I thought that taking the lord's name in vain was a profanity not swearing? Meh. Semantics.

You understand the idea of tittivation don't you? I think it's that kind of effect. The problem is the sight of a woman's ankles is now not considered risque. Not much we can do about it. That's kind of why I started this. We can't halt the approach of swearing and new jargon, we can only hope to guide people to use it correctly and in agreed manners... to some extent. If it is thrown in shadow then there it will grow. Only by putting light upon it can we hope to understand and harness it... which is kinda why I alwasy wanted to know what the words meant.

I recall one incident where I got thwacked for asking what 'ruddy' meant. I was even more displeased when I found out that it only could be used for rude purposes. I mean it's not like I was trying to be smart. I'd heard the word and wondered what it meant.

Well this is the problem I forsee. You tell children that swearing is naughty and it becomes a sweet to be enjoyed whenever you get given the opportunity or can create one. Perhaps if it is just another boring word with proper context then it would not be so enticing?
I'm going to spend ages now working that one out. Don't tell me, it'll spoil it. Suffice to say that I shall now be saying "material foot covering" for the meanwhile :newwink:

Precisely. That's poor usage and like that I think that any word can become irritating and offensive. To me the word 'logic' is getting like that as it is so often misused and abused. 'Fact' is another one liable to bring my ire.

My sister aside we're pretty proper with language. It's mostly been a source of entertainment to me as even when my father would hit his thumb with a hammer he would string together swearing in a rhythmic fashion that combined with the little jig would merely make me laugh rather than act in shock.

To this day I prefer to insult someone via more inventive uses of other words rather than use those slightly silly and rather basic and boring words so commonly spread out.

So it's okay to swear as long as you're incomprehensible? That'd be glasgow covered :devil:
It's okay to swear based upon your emotional state?

Even the most rational person fails to create rationals for swearing and yet everyone does... there's got to be something good about it no?

Au contrair! I think that in the world of comedy the man with skill to his swearing is far better liked than the brute. Take Billy Connolley for example, sure he swears a lot but with that accent and the manic stories, situations and sentiments which he portrays I think that it works most of the time. After all how can you relay someone's utter frustration without resort to such measures, unless you engage in very foppish measures of acting?
Though I agree with the sentiment I have to wonder how many words a person can ask to be left out of conversation before they become intrusive themselves. You have a profanity filter, this allows you to operate on here with little or no requirement upon others to alter how they act... of course unless you get a thread with nothing but asterisks and then that could be problematic. If someone were to demand that all posts should be filtered for their sensibilities then I think a large backlash would be seen...

Oh if you saw some of his work you may change your mind. He is a wordsmith first and foremost with a broad and wonderful vocabulary. Better than any other I have witnessed. It was revealed as one of his less known loves on a program that got me thinking. If a man who loved language can love "bad" language then is it really bad?

Context definitely rules. I've seen asian's refer to "Pakis" (not sure even how to spell that) and coloureds (#### I hate grouping by skin tone) refer to "***" (almost wrote Nigers then :doh: ) but a white teen doing the same is subject to harsh retorts. It's always context driven.. hence how I tend to only swear with those who I know well enough not to put my foot in it.[color=Navy]

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

My sympathies.

I would say though that such is indicative of their intellect and not their vocabulary is indicative of their behaviour. My sister is a most caring person but can use such language as I disassociate myself from her.

Oh dear. Another INTJ admits to humanity. That type stereotype is really going out of the window now.

*nudge*

Oh and the cat was still funny. It was more funny because it used a swear word.... even if you didn't realise you'd sent me that one :)

That is your way and good on you for sticking to it.

As a parting point, do you think you'd have less problems with swearing if it were kept from straying into religious name calling and wasn't so repetetive? For example I've always loved the word (hope this doesn't ruin your reading btw) "buggeration". It's one I've never wanted to look up in fact. Just in case it ruins a wonderful word. Now is that as bad or is it better because it's more fruity than angry and less used as punctuation?
I like buggeration. That's a useful word. :)
I may start using it. :smile:

[GZA]

Swearing is a part of the language. I don't consider it swearing at all unless it is misused. I don't swear a lot, but I certainly do when it is applicable to the conversation. I don't even think about it, I consider it to be on the same plane as the rest of the english language.

Language describes emotions, senses, ideas, ect. There are words for all kinds of things -naturally there are words for anything we can possibly think of. Everything from babies to genocide. How can fuck or shit be offensive, unspeakable words while genocide isn't. Why, while discussing genocide, do people find it tasteless to swear? Thats pretty fucked up.

Soemtimes swearing is a powerful expresison of some emotion. If you stub your toe, it is natural to say "fuck!". If you find you have solved acomplex problem, you might joyfully yell "damn right!". Although I find most exclamations using swearing comes from soemthing negative.

Swearing creates a kind of emphasis that other words do not have. Bullshit has more emphasis and power than bullcrap. Fucked up has more emphasis than messed up.

Swearing being overused or used incorrectly is bad. When I hear people say "I fuckin jumped on the fuckin trampoline and fuckin did a fuckin backflip" and I slowly shake my head in shame. They are misusing language, so they sound stupid. Sutblty is key... "I got on the trampoline and did a fucking backflip!" sounds much better, and actually expresses the rush you got, rather than weighing the sentance down.

Swearing is also sexy. I think there is an element of sexuality to it. There is something slightly sexy about when a women swears, when done right. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it.

I think ethnic slurs are absolutely innapropriate though. I don't believe they have any value in expression at all -they are hateful, which I don't think is the same as expressive.

I think as long as language exist, so will swearing, and as long as language has existed, swearing has bene right along side it. Always will.

[Beat]

I swear here and there but I'm put off by people that use it very often. It's just not very inventive and makes you look kind of dumb and a bit classless.

[millerm277]

Is swearing part of the language to be used with freedom and relish?

Sure, at the appropriate times. Adds emphasis.

Is swearing intrinsically wrong?

No.

What do you think to the idea that being offended by swearing is more social responsibility than being offended by the words yourself?

Definitely. I don't get offended by swearing except when other people are using it around small children.

[Xander]

I think ethnic slurs are absolutely innapropriate though. I don't believe they have any value in expression at all -they are hateful, which I don't think is the same as expressive.

I think as long as language exist, so will swearing, and as long as language has existed, swearing has bene right along side it. Always will.
Slurs have existed since the situation which created them first came up. How can genocide not be offensive but something like limey can be?

Sure it's kinda dumb to group people by skin colour or some other abritrary measure, though aren't all divisions arbitrary to one degree or another?

Sometimes though it just get's silly. Doing things like banning the word "blackboard" is so obviously done by some white person who's sitting in a corner worrying about what all the minorities will say without ever actually talking to any of them. Heck soon you'll have to say "absence of white" for these people to be happy.

Like everything slurs have a place. I'd hate to see them disappear because they're interesting but similarly I'd hate to see people victimised by them, I know how that feels.
Definitely. I don't get offended by swearing except when other people are using it around small children.
Why? If the word is inoffensive then surely it matters not who hears it.

[Fiver]

Swearing offensive? Try using a word like "volubly" or "surfeit" in conversation and see the looks on their faces.

[Xander]

Swearing offensive? Try using a word like "volubly" or "surfeit" in conversation and see the looks on their faces.
Exactly. To some you just slapped them in the face with a cold wet haddock.. it's all context.

[IamDisplaced]

I swear myself.. *shrugs* I'm not disturbed by swearing. On the other hand, there are times when I can get aggravated by it under 'special circumstances'.

For myself, I'm more concerned with if the message has "substance" to it vs. if swearing was used to deliver the information itself. One of my INTP friends swear every other second to the point where some people do get offended (that actually makes his day), but "I" find him to be a very 'expressive' and intelligent being. I suppose, it's a matter of preference just as well as 'when and where' one decides to swear.

EDIT: fine MacGuffin! fine.. filtered lol

[MacGuffin]

Oooh... that won't be filtered out!

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I love opinion threads....got tons of 'em!

I think there is a time and place for everything. Sex is a good place. In everyday situations I don't mind an occasional sprinkle here and there. Any more then that it's like reading someone who posts in caps all the time...just plain annoying.

[INTJMom]

Oooh... that won't be filtered out!
No. It wasn't.
Time to unsubscribe.

[MacGuffin]

No. It wasn't.
Time to unsubscribe.

But I had a question!

What happens when you come across a swear word(s) unexpectedly?

[Jack Flak]

Oh cock, who knows? Common problem in all walks of life.

[Anja]

*Crows with laughter*

[Tallulah]

I think the most annoying thing is when people think that they're some big, special rebel because they say the f-word a lot, and they consider it a huge victory for having offended someone. I don't understand that. I understand people feeling like they're expressing themselves, but I don't understand why they get a charge out of imposing their choice on people who don't care for swearing. That sort of behavior just seems a bit immature, to me.

[bluemonday]

Take Billy Connolley for example
Scots are better at swearing than anyone else. It's practically an artform here.

Some of the most eloquent people I know use utterly filthy language to devastating effect. But I hate to see course language in print - I had to stop reading one of Stephen Fry's books because it made my hair curl in an unattractive manner, although I love his irreverence on QI, for example. That's a weird double standard I don't really understand.

I only swear in the company of people I know will be offended -like my mum - it's too irresistible to see the look on her face ;)

[01011010]

I swear sometimes. I don't see an issue with it.

[Xander]

But I had a question!

What happens when you come across a swear word(s) unexpectedly?
Err she un-subscribes...

Shame the filter has flaws. It's a valuable tool.

I love opinion threads....got tons of 'em!

I think there is a time and place for everything. Sex is a good place. In everyday situations I don't mind an occasional sprinkle here and there. Any more then that it's like reading someone who posts in caps all the time...just plain annoying.
My boss refuses to write in anything other than capitals. He wonders why you can set the numlock to start with the pc but not the capslock!

He even writes letters to customers entirely in capitals!!

I think the most annoying thing is when people think that they're some big, special rebel because they say the f-word a lot, and they consider it a huge victory for having offended someone. I don't understand that. I understand people feeling like they're expressing themselves, but I don't understand why they get a charge out of imposing their choice on people who don't care for swearing. That sort of behavior just seems a bit immature, to me.
Precisely. Well used it is a sign of decent mastery of a language. Poorly used it is a sign of poor mastery. All I'm saying is that use itself is indicative of neither.
Scots are better at swearing than anyone else. It's practically an artform here.
Oh not entirely true. Ask any broad scouser to say "f'in Thatcher" (obviously the full word, not the abbreviation). They spit it out like it's the worst insult ever.

[bluemonday]

Oh not entirely true. Ask any broad scouser to say "f'in Thatcher" (obviously the full word, not the abbreviation). They spit it out like it's the worst insult ever.

a scouser doesn't have to swear, to sound like they're swearing, much like a weegie - must be the Irish ancestry, they did invent swearing, after all.

[Beat]

fuck

[Xander]

a scouser doesn't have to swear, to sound like they're swearing, much like a weegie - must be the Irish ancestry, they did invent swearing, after all.
The accents are what makes it sound proper though. Somehow it matches perfectly. It's much more pleasing to the ear than some whiny Londoner trying to trash mouth with the northerners.

[bluemonday]

The accents are what makes it sound proper though. Somehow it matches perfectly. It's much more pleasing to the ear than some whiny Londoner trying to trash mouth with the northerners.

anything is more pleasing to the ear than a whiny Londoner...