J laziness & P diligence in relation to hobbies

[Athenian200]

Has anyone else ever noticed this? I see this pattern a lot.

It seems like Js are more willing to let their hobbies go for a while, or only engage in the sporadically/randomly, while Ps tend to focus on them more religiously (despite not having communicated a commitment). Exactly the opposite of what you see in terms of normal work. By hobbies, I mean things like blogging, posting on message boards, drawing, studying something that isn't part of the school's curriculum, etc.

Am I imagining this? :shock:

[substitute]

It could be because P's are possibly more prone to not being in the work they want to do, since flexibility is a prime requisite and that's exactly what you don't get in most jobs, especially those at the lower end to middle of the pay scale... so perhaps P's are more likely to see their paid work as just a means to an end, and that to get their satisfaction/reward from life they have to do it by their spare time pursuits. Whilst J's might get more satisfaction from their work and therefore not invest as much psychologically in their hobbies?

Just an instant theory :)

[Bella]

It could be because P's are possibly more prone to not being in the work they want to do, since flexibility is a prime requisite and that's exactly what you don't get in most jobs, especially those at the lower end to middle of the pay scale... so perhaps P's are more likely to see their paid work as just a means to an end, and that to get their satisfaction/reward from life they have to do it by their spare time pursuits. Whilst J's might get more satisfaction from their work and therefore not invest as much psychologically in their hobbies?

Just an instant theory :)

Yes, you're probably right.
I get more satisfaction from work than hobbies.:shock:

[substitute]

Yes, to be bound to the schedules and routines, rules and policies of working for someone else, is pretty repressive and miserable for a P... it's just a case of gritting your teeth through it to keep the roof over your head. But for a J those things provide you with the security and certainty that you crave.

[Bella]

You know what else it is... 'The Goals.' I'll work myself into a misery, all for the sake of 'The Goals.'

[substitute]

You know what else it is... 'The Goals.' I'll work myself into a misery, all for the sake of 'The Goals.'

yeah. I'm more likely to think the goals are retarded and that I've got a better idea, but nobody's listening to me and I've got to pretend to care about these stupid goals and put my time and effort into achieving them. And I can't even do it my own way either, I've got to do it their way. Which I also think is retarded, and could improve on if only they'd listen/let me. But they don't.

[Bella]

Freaking redarded J's ....sheesh ;)

[Little Linguist]

LOL Ohhhh mannnn...I find I am *really* super committed in almost every area of my life except my hobbies. For example I am super committed at work; I am also super committed in my relationships. But casual friends that I hang out with and my hobbies get the short end of the stick. It's not good, but I have to be honest.

However, I'm not quite sure exactly WHY this happens.

[substitute]

LOL Ohhhh mannnn...I find I am *really* super committed in almost every area of my life except my hobbies. For example I am super committed at work; I am also super committed in my relationships. But casual friends that I hang out with and my hobbies get the short end of the stick. It's not good, but I have to be honest.

However, I'm not quite sure exactly WHY this happens.

Is it partially cos you're doing work you want to do, that you enjoy/believe in?
Cos I find this is a rare gift that few P's manage to obtain.

[colmena]

I like doing things under my own steam. And if I'm happy, you can bet I'll take in/do a lot more than someone who was told to do something.

It's having faith in my own development, and being certain that my incentives are sincere and of moral virtue.

There's something about getting paid that taints things for me. But if it's to help support someone else, I'm ok with it.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to like any job I have until I create it myself. Until that time I have to pay the bills somehow, and that means I work in some job I don't particularly care for.

[Eric B]

Yes, to be bound to the schedules and routines, rules and policies of working for someone else, is pretty repressive and miserable for a P... it's just a case of gritting your teeth through it to keep the roof over your head. But for a J those things provide you with the security and certainty that you crave.
My job pertains to one of my biggest lifelong interests, and yet, things have changed; entering the information age with the internet, and the job is so controlling, timewise, and all I want to do now is share information.

It is definitely the "other man's" schedules that drives me up the wall, rather than the work itself. Keirsey even redesignated "Judging" as "Scheduling" (and P is "Probing"), and J's tend to be work first play later. I think even some test questions pertaining to J/P ask something like that. So J's will put their energy into meeting the schedules, where P's will put their energy into more free pursuits like inerests. How many P children must have heard from J parents "You put all that effort into interests, but not into your responsibilities!"

Some people say we shouldn't focus on the J/P dichotomy so much, but find that it is very distinctive.

[FDG]

No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true. If you compare IJ to IP, I'd say it still holds true because the IJ is more likely to focuss on activities that are "strictly necessary".

I think that ENTJs are often not included in the reasoning of "a scheduled job provides J with security", but anyway I have to say that this is something I don't relate to at all. I'd value the freedom of making my own schedule over a superimposed one. You can give me deadlines and I'll never miss one, but don't tell me where and when and how to do the work, please. I work a lot more efficiently when I can organize myself.

As far as "goals" go. I've never seen the need to work myself to exhaustion in order to achieve a given "goal". There's plenty of time in a given day, there's always plenty of time to reach a given goal, with a bit of organization you can enjoy lots of free time and still be very productive without burning out. The only time in which a goal requires overworking is when all that you're trying to do is avoiding failure at all costs by covering all the possible bases. But I'd call it "risk mismanagement"; you can't "dream big" and also live decently if you don't allow for a little risk.

[Bella]

It depends on what or how big the goal is. Sometimes if you work double hard, you can get it done it double quickly, this works well for money-related goals.

[substitute]

FDG - the point is that you actually want a schedule, whether it's your own that you prefer over someone else's is beside the point; the P doesn't want one, period.

[Kora]

I like doing what I want when I want.
If something becomes an obligation, I feel aversion towards it.

[FDG]

FDG - the point is that you actually want a schedule, whether it's your own that you prefer over someone else's is beside the point; the P doesn't want one, period.

Allright, uhm, let me understand, like P types never think "Okay today in the morning I'll do this, then in the early afternoon this, then at 4 I'll call my friend" or something? They (you) decide things always without pre-thinking about them?

[Eric B]

No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true. If you compare IJ to IP, I'd say it still holds true because the IJ is more likely to focuss on activities that are "strictly necessary".

I think that ENTJs are often not included in the reasoning of "a scheduled job provides J with security", but anyway I have to say that this is something I don't relate to at all. I'd value the freedom of making my own schedule over a superimposed one. You can give me deadlines and I'll never miss one, but don't tell me where and when and how to do the work, please. I work a lot more efficiently when I can organize myself.


FDG - the point is that you actually want a schedule, whether it's your own that you prefer over someone else's is beside the point; the P doesn't want one, period.

Yeah; I didn't get into "whose" schedule was being met, but yes, in an ENTJ, it would not be so much about "a scheduled job provides security", but would be more about making your own schedule over a superimposed one. With me, I don't want a schedule imposed either, but even if it is self-imposed. I often end up cutting out planned activities for running out of time, and they get pushed back, and while I don't like that, I would still rather have that freedom to complete or cut out whatever I want at my own pace.

[FDG]

Yeah; I didn't get into "whose" schedule was being met, but yes, in an ENTJ, it would not be so much about "a scheduled job provides security", but would be more about making your own schedule over a superimposed one. With me, I don't want a schedule imposed either, but even if it is self-imposed. I often end up cutting out planned activities for running out of time, and they get pushed back, and while I don't like that, I would still rather have that freedom to complete or cut out whatever I want at my own pace.

Ok, I understand better now. So it seems that P types always see schedules as being a limit, and have a more rigid view of them - either they completely met them, or ditch/cut out plans. J types are more liberated by their schedules and meet them with "pleasure" so to speak, eventually changing them as they see fit (whereas a P type would not change the schedule - he'd simply ditch it).

[Kyrielle]

Well, see...what would have been a hobby has become my work. I have done, and am still doing, all that I can to see to it that what I love doing and have always done naturally are made the primary focus of my life and if I can earn money while doing it, +100 points in my mind. So, I suppose I would be dedicated to my "hobby" which is simultaneously my work. I have other hobbies, though, that can slip and get buried under all the other things to be done that seem more important to me (like keeping a journal/blogging...yeah can't remember to do it more than three times a year).

Regarding schedules, I love schedules as long as they aren't too rigorous, pointless, or confined. I do the same thing FDG does in thinking of all the things I have to do that day. I helps me to not panic. Because I can and will if I suddenly realise I'm without a plan of some sort. I get lost, feel at sea, and have no idea what I want/should/need to do. (I envy you people who can think on your feet like a deft, swashbuckling swordsman.)

[Nocapszy]

Since when are Ps consumed by frivolity?
When did the Js stake their claim on progress and success?

Does no one bother to look for introverted functions anymore or is it that they manifest too incomprehensibly?

[FDG]

Since when are Ps consumed by frivolity?
When did the Js stake their claim on progress and success?

You can be extremely successful and deep in something that is considered as an hobby. For a stereotypical example you have Einstein, for a more extensively present you have athletes.

Regarding schedules, I love schedules as long as they aren't too rigorous, pointless, or confined. I do the same thing FDG does in thinking of all the things I have to do that day. I helps me to not panic. Because I can and will if I suddenly realise I'm without a plan of some sort. I get lost, feel at sea, and have no idea what I want/should/need to do. (I envy you people who can think on your feet like a deft, swashbuckling swordsman.)

If I have nothing to do, I panick only if it's rainy outside, because I'll get bored :D otherwise, I just go at the park sunbathing (except when it's december-january)

[EJCC]

No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true.

Maybe I'm just a weird example, but I actually hold true to the OP. I'm very chill about my hobbies. Maybe that's just because if SJs were anal-retentive about everything (as some people tend to think, albeit falsely), there wouldn't be any "fun"... just "business". We need to be chill about something - it might as well be something that you aren't paid to do. Being chill about a paying job, for me at least, is dangerous.

As far as "goals" go. I've never seen the need to work myself to exhaustion in order to achieve a given "goal".

That's probably more of an SJ thing... specifically an ESTJ thing :)

[Aimahn]

I think I just love to invest my energies and emotions into things that I like on my own whims. When I played soccer I would love and hate practices because it was imposed and mandatory, but I loved the freedom you had in scrimmages to just goof off and do something you enjoy.

I LOVED the games because you could focus your intensity levels in accordance to a varying situation. I think when it comes down to it when I'm willing to exert energy and effort on something I need the comfort of knowing that the highs and lows will not adversely affect me. Schedules unfortunately are usually built to curb the varying productivity levels and maintain a more consistent level while hobbies allow for it.

[cascademn]

It could be because P's are possibly more prone to not being in the work they want to do, since flexibility is a prime requisite and that's exactly what you don't get in most jobs, especially those at the lower end to middle of the pay scale... so perhaps P's are more likely to see their paid work as just a means to an end, and that to get their satisfaction/reward from life they have to do it by their spare time pursuits. Whilst J's might get more satisfaction from their work and therefore not invest as much psychologically in their hobbies?

Just an instant theory :)

Don't know. Makes sense, but then assuming I'm a 'J', I run counter to that because I've never been terribly satisfied with work, and have often ended up having to convince myself that work is just a means to an end. That doesn't sit well with me though.

I aspire to a job that really does give me satisfaction in life, and gives me many benefits and rewards (emotional/psychological benefits), but I often think that job doesn't exist and I'll always have to seek outside for those pieces.

[edcoaching]

No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true. If you compare IJ to IP, I'd say it still holds true because the IJ is more likely to focuss on activities that are "strictly necessary".

I think that ENTJs are often not included in the reasoning of "a scheduled job provides J with security", but anyway I have to say that this is something I don't relate to at all. I'd value the freedom of making my own schedule over a superimposed one. You can give me deadlines and I'll never miss one, but don't tell me where and when and how to do the work, please. I work a lot more efficiently when I can organize myself.

As far as "goals" go. I've never seen the need to work myself to exhaustion in order to achieve a given "goal". There's plenty of time in a given day, there's always plenty of time to reach a given goal, with a bit of organization you can enjoy lots of free time and still be very productive without burning out. The only time in which a goal requires overworking is when all that you're trying to do is avoiding failure at all costs by covering all the possible bases. But I'd call it "risk mismanagement"; you can't "dream big" and also live decently if you don't allow for a little risk.

This rings really true for me as an INFJ. I can meet goals much more efficiently than half my coworkers, so don't tell me how, when, or how long.

Hobbies...My work is really as interesting as my hobbies. But I'm self-employed :) I find I need to almost schedule my hobbies--theater tickets with a friend, book club, library due dates on books, etc., or I won't get to them so i'll agree with the OP

[LucrativeSid]

Responding to original post:

Are those hobbies or just methods of procrastination? If something is enjoyable for a P, it's not surprising that they will spend a lot of time on it, since they have a play first and work later attitude. What better way to fill the time?

[Nocapszy]

You can be extremely successful and deep in something that is considered as an hobby. For a stereotypical example you have Einstein, for a more extensively present you have athletes.Correct.

Those were rhetorical questions by the way. I had hoped my prose would give it away but I guess I can't expect a Thinking dominant to comprehend -- I call it the Dwight Schrute syndrome.

You are correct though, and how very astute. Most wouldn't even recognize alternative contingencies. Responding in kind would have been especially difficult.

Additionally, there are P's who do extremely well in... basically anything. Anything that tickles their introverted judgement.


This is what I'm talking about when I say no one attends the introverted/extraverted side of the marks (or perhaps we've muddled our understanding...).
Bluewing minds it too much. Everyone else ignores it completely. I am mother bear's porridge.

If a strongly expressed Ti likes running a small business, the Ti will run their small business very well. If the same Ti instead likes jigsaw puzzles, holding down a job will be immensely difficult, as he will be too distracted by his puzzles.

He has his own goals. Rather than having goals established by society like the Te types.

It's simple math folks.

FDG seems to know his arithmetic.

[placebo]

I don't have that sense of duty or whatever it is J's have to actually focus on work (something not fun), and would rather engulf myself in my hobbies because I am self-indulgent that way.