Top 3 reasons for why SJs suck...

[Uberfuhrer]

Hey, now, we can't forget the Sensors!


They nag you about little details.
To them, SPs are hyperactive, NFs are bipolar, and NTs are autistic.
They take things too seriously.

[Natrushka]

Just two. Their niggling underlying pessimism; wait long enough you'll see it. Their need for Rules and for everyone to follow said Rules... Aggggrrrrr.

[Shimpei]

1. rigid people!
2. judgemental people!
3. naive people (never looking behind the meaning of words)!

[Jennifer]

Yay! Yay! Spread the wealth/negativity!
What's good for the N's is good for the S's!
(And all that fun stuff.)

1. Lack of vision (WYSIATI -- the "What You See is All There Is" syndrome)
2. Foundless cynicism of new ideas
3. Just never quite silly enough!

[Shimpei]

Yay! Yay! Spread the wealth/negativity!
What's good for the N's is good for the S's!
(And all that fun stuff.)

1. Lack of vision (WYSIATI -- the "What You See is All There Is" syndrome)
2. Foundless cynicism of new ideas
3. Just never quite silly enough!

:yes:

[proteanmix]

I have a feeling this thread will soon eclipse the other suck threads.

But I'm happy to see the equal opportunity hating. :)

[Jennifer]

I have a feeling this thread will soon eclipse the other suck threads. But I'm happy to see the equal opportunity hating. :)

And Shimpei is being so accommodating! :hug:

[sudden double-take, eyes Shimpei suspiciously]

[Uberfuhrer]

But I'm happy to see the equal opportunity hating. :)

And you have the evil right-wing fascist to thank for that! :devil:

[Shimpei]

And Shimpei is being so accommodating! :hug:

[sudden double-take, eyes Shimpei suspiciously]


:tongue:

Hehe, I'm immune to your SJ-bitching now, go on guys.

[cafe]

1.) They get in my way with their insistence on following rules
2.) They think I'm a spacey slob
3.) They draw really weird conclusions about very unimportant things

[Uberfuhrer]

1.) They get in my way with their insistence on following rules
2.) They think I'm a spacey slob
3.) They draw really weird conclusions about very unimportant thing

What kind of weird conclusions?

As I recall, SJs are anti-weird!

[cafe]

What kind of weird conclusions?

As I recall, SJs are anti-weird!
They can decide you are a horrible, evil person because your grass gets a little high or you are a couple of days late with a birthday card.

[Uberfuhrer]

They can decide you are a horrible, evil person because your grass gets a little high or you are a couple of days late with a birthday card.

Oh right! I had an ESFJ co-worker who literally yelled at me because I told her I didn't get my mother anything for Mother's Day. She said that if I was her child, she'd disown me. A little on the fanatical side, I would say.

Religious (especially Christian) SJs make me crazy. They are extremely literal with biblical interpretations, even when the words contradict. They are fanatics that, of course, say you'll go to Hell if you act a certain way.

[cafe]

Oh right! I had an ESFJ co-worker who literally yelled at me because I told her I didn't get my mother anything for Mother's Day. She said that if I was her child, she'd disown me. A little on the fanatical side, I would say.

Religious (especially Christian) SJs make me crazy. They are extremely literal with biblical interpretations, even when the words contradict. They are fanatics that, of course, say you'll go to Hell if you act a certain way.
My younger brother's an SJ Pentecostal preacher. He is very polite, so he won't usually tell you what you are doing wrong and that you are going to hell unless he's in the pulpit, but yeah. I imagine he thinks I'm at least a little bit backslid. He's my baby brother, though, so I still think he rocks.

[Lookin4theBestNU]

Top 3 reasons SJs suck:
1. I know it would actually be easier to do it that way....but that is not the way we are supposed to do that. Read the handbook someone really important wrote that!
2. I am not feeling good again today. Let me tell you about it.
3. ZOMG Britney spears has a picture of her coochie on the internet! Have you heard Paris Hilton went to jail!?! What do you mean you don't care?!?

[Jennifer]

They can decide you are a horrible, evil person because your grass gets a little high or you are a couple of days late with a birthday card.

Well... aren't you?!

(Don't forget allowing your kids to leave their toys all over your own backyard -- it's an eyesore for the entire neighborhood!)

2. I am not feeling good again today. Let me tell you about it.

:rofl1: Oh, I am so SICK and TIRED of hearing who has gastric reflux and who had a bladder infection and whose gout is acting up and whose blood pressure shot through the roof last month... Gaaaa!)

I imagine he thinks I'm at least a little bit backslid...

Or perhaps just... Notoriously Evil???!!! (dum-dum DUUUUHHH!)

[curmudgeon]

They can decide you are a horrible, evil person because your grass gets a little high or you are a couple of days late with a birthday card.

Mommy?

[cafe]

Well... aren't you?!

(Don't forget allowing your kids to leave their toys all over your own backyard -- it's an eyesore for the entire neighborhood!)
How do they have time to care?? That's what I will never understand. Why don't they just go read something or post on their forum?

Or perhaps just... Notoriously Evil???!!! (dum-dum DUUUUHHH!)
Nope. I'm still big sis. I was practically his second mother and that gets me special authority status or something. :devil: I'm just misguided and I'm sure he prays for me every day.

[Jennifer]

How do they have time to care?? That's what I will never understand. Why don't they just go read something or post on their forum?

Your yard IS their forum. [But yes... stop the insanity...!]

I was practically his second mother and that gets me special authority status or something. I'm just misguided and I'm sure he prays for me every day.

If God exists and has a sense of humor, you will be assigned to be your brother's guardian angel in Heaven. :devil:

[cafe]

If God exists and has a sense of humor, you will be assigned to be your brother's guardian angel in Heaven. :devil:
I would do it gladly, but no way would I resist the temptation to tweak him now and then. He is so easy to get going. :D

[Xander]

SJs suck cause
#1 They can't see that what their doing makes no sense cause their only doing it cause they were almost programmed at some point to do it and so never have really brought it inot their being it just sits there like a limp appendage.
#2 Some people build junction on their rail lines. SJs only ever seem to build branch lines. there's two results 1 and 0. There is no grey!!
#3 They usually want to be free of their own shackles and so resent others for being bereft of such things whilst failing to reconcile that it is only themselves they have to blame for that aspect of their predicament!!

[girlnamedbless]

- They get upset when things don't go their way.
- They need things to be clear-cut and easy to understand, which isn't always possible.
- They're detail-picky.

[bluebell]

1) Just tell me all the steps, I need the process, come on, tell me all the steps of how I need to do this!

2) Don't bother me with facts or possible problems, I already made the decision.

3) And I did this and then I did this and she did that and then I did this and this and then I went here and I did that and...

[wildcat]

Hey, now, we can't forget the Sensors!


They nag you about little details.
To them, SPs are hyperactive, NFs are bipolar, and NTs are autistic.
They take things too seriously.

hyperacive ENP
bipolar NFP
autistic IN

[wildcat]

SJs suck cause
#1 They can't see that what their doing makes no sense cause their only doing it cause they were almost programmed at some point to do it and so never have really brought it inot their being it just sits there like a limp appendage.
#2 Some people build junction on their rail lines. SJs only ever seem to build branch lines. there's two results 1 and 0. There is no grey!!
#3 They usually want to be free of their own shackles and so resent others for being bereft of such things whilst failing to reconcile that it is only themselves they have to blame for that aspect of their predicament!!
A sound description if the ISTJ. Other SJs however have more scope.

[booyalab]

A sound description if the ISTJ. Other SJs however have more scope.

yeah, like that list of negative type description says:

ESTJ: "Stuffed Shirt"
No imagination, no flexibility, no common sense,
no capacity for tolerance of others with different priorities.

ISTJ: "Bean Counter"
Like the ESTJ, but with less vision.

[booyalab]

why SJs suck:

1. dull
2. judgemental
3. everywhere

[Mycroft]

Yeah, in my experience, the thing that makes XSTJs TREMENDOUSLY trying at times is how they very obviously feel everyone else in the world is just a broken STJ who needs to get his/her shit together.

In particular ISTJs have the IXTJ arrogance, but whereas an INTJ's arrogance is steeped in competence, ISTJs feel the ability to keep tabs on all sorts of nigh-but-inconsequential minutiae is the measure of the man/woman.

[Splittet]

What annoys me most is how they tend to be...

1. utterly boring!
2. painfully conventional!
3. annoyingly close-minded!

They are rarely interesting enough for me to consider them amongst my closest friends.

[Tonks]

1. control-freaks
2. ridiculous work ethic, always busy-busy-busy, even if unnessecary
3. control freaks
4. think everyone else (non-SJ) is lazy
5. did I mention control freak yet?

[prplchknz]

My mom's an ISFJ and most things on the list fit her. Though I feel bad though cuz she's the only J in the house. So everyone else is eh W/E it'll get done, or it's fine/I'm not worried. While she's freaking out.
Her:Are you going to *something that doesn't require prior commitment*?
me/brother/dad: I don't know.
Her:I would like to know, so I can plan accordingly
Us:Fine not going/am!*

*the last reply is usually after her yelling at us for 5 minutes.

Or when she's like do this! then she does it for you, or tells you you're doing it wrong. Then yells at you for being lazy. If she'd quit ridiculing people about the way they do things, then maybe more people would want to work with her. Or even not take over.

[Il Morto Qui Parla]

1.) They're boring
2.)zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Sona]

Would you guys like a cracker to go with your whine?

[Sahara]

Would you guys like a cracker to go with your whine?

You should have put that here The LAME joke thread (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/fluff-zone/1459-lame-jokes-thread.html) lol

[Santtu]

Religious (especially Christian) SJs make me crazy. They are extremely literal with biblical interpretations, even when the words contradict. They are fanatics that, of course, say you'll go to Hell if you act a certain way.

Exactly my words there. One religious ESFJ woman I knew bordered the line between a determined, moral valuing person and a fanatic. She absolutely loved to use logically flawed and emotionally loaded arguments with appeal to morals.

Current situation is A, and we SHOULD have situation B on moral grounds.
Thus it follows that any world-view and procedure is true and desirable that produces B from A.

Drove me mad to hear her. She got better and less fanatic. I gather that she had accumulated huge anxiety and internal cognitive dissonance (conflicting thoughts), but unable to solve the problems, she preached the "solutions" that she had learned and that were accepted in her community, however unconviced she was of their logical consistency in her own mind.

She somehow got over it and became less neurotic.

[wildcat]

Exactly my words there. One religious ESFJ woman I knew bordered the line between a determined, moral valuing person and a fanatic. She absolutely loved to use logically flawed and emotionally loaded arguments with appeal to morals.

Current situation is A, and we SHOULD have situation B on moral grounds.
Thus it follows that any world-view and procedure is true and desirable that produces B from A.

Drove me mad to hear her. She got better and less fanatic. I gather that she had accumulated huge anxiety and internal cognitive dissonance (conflicting thoughts), but unable to solve the problems, she preached the "solutions" that she had learned and that were accepted in her community, however unconviced she was of their logical consistency in her own mind.

She somehow got over it and became less neurotic.
It is not only Finland.

The rural backwardness exists in many parts of the world.

Never get mad.

Distance is understanding.

[booyalab]

The Anal Retentive Chef (http://www.jibjab.com/view/141756)

[Athenian200]

1. They are critical of people who don't do things exactly according to their rules. (although I'm guilty of that myself sometimes.)

2. They have trouble seeing a perspective that isn't part of what they've been taught is standard or conventional. (I don't do this.)

3. They rely too much on traditional forms to express things, and lack creativity in many ways. (I think I'm often guilty of this one, too... except I can get out of that mode when I use Ni.)

But they have enough positive traits to make up for their shortcomings, I think. But I haven't really known any SJ's, so I'm basing all this on assumptions about them from their type descriptions, and from other people's descriptions of encounters with them.

[Schizm]

1. They are critical of people who don't do things exactly according to their rules. (although I'm guilty of that myself sometimes.)

2. They have trouble seeing a perspective that isn't part of what they've been taught is standard or conventional. (I don't do this.)

3. They rely too much on traditional forms to express things, and lack creativity in many ways. (I think I'm often guilty of this one, too... except I can get out of that mode when I use Ni.)

But they have enough positive traits to make up for their shortcomings, I think. But I haven't really known any SJ's, so I'm basing all this on assumptions about them from their type descriptions, and from other people's descriptions of encounters with them.

Do you ever go out? They make up 70 percent of the people you interact with on a day to day basis.

[lol_nl]

ESTJs... oh god! They are just so annoying because they criticise everything you do that's not "normal" to their standards.

[Uberfuhrer]

Do you ever go out? They make up 70 percent of the people you interact with on a day to day basis.

Make that about 35 percent.

And most people are like that and not worth my time.

[Helfeather]

1. They have difficult coming up w/ original ideas.

2. They usually do poorly on standardized testing.

3. Too much emphasis on how things should be.

[scantilyclad]

1. they have absolutely no depth
2. lack creativity
3.constantly seeking other's approval.

[GirlAmerica]

ESTJs... oh god! They are just so annoying because they criticise everything you do that's not "normal" to their standards.

Try being an INTJ having been married to one...........ugh! O V E R S T I M U L A T I O N!!!!
ESTJ does indeed = Lucy from Peanuts...

BLAH BLAH BLAH YOU BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
I BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH ...........infinity

[Schizm]

Make that about 35 percent.

And most people are like that and not worth my time.

No way? Oh wait yes. Thank you. I didn't factor in SPs

[anii]

1 - They rule the world
2 - Often buzzkills
3 - Too task/results oriented

[Uberfuhrer]

1 - They rule the world

No, I rule the world!!!

(One of these days...)

[JediM05]

i can't speak too much for other SJs, but I am an ESTJ, and to be honest, some of the conclusions that are being drawn here are way off. One in particular to me is what Jennifer said about "not being quite silly enough." I think if you met me and saw me at a party or social event, you might realize that.lol. In fact, most of the time at social events (these events do have to be with people i know, however, otherwise i'm not as comfortable) I am usually the life of the party and the center of attention. I don't feel like going into too much detail (and yes, I know that is uncharacteristic of my type, lol), but there are other things that are being misstated sometimes about SJs, or ESTJs anyways. I haven't seen many ESTJs on here, so I'll try to help correct certain ideas about us.

[Maverick]

i can't speak too much for other SJs, but I am an ESTJ, and to be honest, some of the conclusions that are being drawn here are way off. One in particular to me is what Jennifer said about "not being quite silly enough." I think if you met me and saw me at a party or social event, you might realize that.lol. In fact, most of the time at social events (these events do have to be with people i know, however, otherwise i'm not as comfortable) I am usually the life of the party and the center of attention. I don't feel like going into too much detail (and yes, I know that is uncharacteristic of my type, lol), but there are other things that are being misstated sometimes about SJs, or ESTJs anyways. I haven't seen many ESTJs on here, so I'll try to help correct certain ideas about us.

Welcome. I think ESTJ's are awesome.

[runvardh]

I haven't seen many ESTJs on here, so I'll try to help correct certain ideas about us.

'bout time...

[whatever]

awww.. not nice to be so mean to SJs! they keep the rest of us in check! my mom and best friend are SJs and they are the voices of reason in my life :)

[runvardh]

awww.. not nice to be so mean to SJs! they keep the rest of us in check! my mom and best friend are SJs and they are the voices of reason in my life :)

I actually have a quite neutral relationship with the type in general. Three grandmothers (one is actually mother of my step dad) and some associates have filled out my positive experiences with SJs. Two great-grandmothers, a great-aunt, and some other associates have filled out some generally neutral experiences. Finally, an aunt has been an excessively horrible SJ experience and it seems the more I end up like my father the less she enjoys my company as well. My one liner did need a smiley though to show I was half joking around about it.

[whatever]

sorry- my reaction was to everyone's comments! I should be more clear- and yes- there are some more "interesting" SJs out there- like my grandparents who consider disowning me every election year! :D

[oasispaw]

dang

[wildcat]

What kind of weird conclusions?

As I recall, SJs are anti-weird!
Their weird is your routine.

[quietgirl]

3. ZOMG Britney spears has a picture of her coochie on the internet! Have you heard Paris Hilton went to jail!?! What do you mean you don't care?!?

Haha, should I really add that my ISFJ boyfriend keeps me updated on all the current celebrity gossip? Probably not. :D

[machintruc]

To them [SJ's], SPs are hyperactive, NFs are bipolar, and NTs are autistic.

To me, SJ's are antisocial. In fact, all SJ's have ASPD.

[wedekit]

This is just my impression of my mom, ESFJ.

1) "Success is not a personal sense of achievement, it is how nice of a car you can buy."
2) She doesn't question tradition.
3) She is the rock that holds down my balloon. Imagination is childish to her and is not up to par with being a "sensible" person.

[Camelopardalis]

From observing my mother, ISFJ, I conclude:

1. Worships tradition and rules
2. Explode over little things that don't matter
3. The 'S' makes them somewhat inflexible. The 'J' just makes it worse :P

[silkbite]

1. MICROMANAGING.
2. Thinking they are an authority on a subject when really they are just talking out their ass because they fail to grasp nuances.
3. Always needing MORE RULES.

[SahlainAnteth]

Hah, wow. The ISTJ "Judgmental-ism" is rubbing off on everyone on this thread. I think the air is reaching peak toxicity in here.

Anyway, in honor of my distress and ulcer-causing college Latin prof.,

ISTJs Are IMMOVABLE!
and
Have UNREALISTIC PERFECTIONIST Expectations!

[Beat]

Are you basing some of your criticisms off of comments I've said to you, uber? haha

[Uberfuhrer]

Actually, right now, I'm thinking that the SJs here are more tolerant than any of the Ns.

[rhinosaur]

I am fortunate to be in a situation where SJs are a minority.

[Edahn]

I am fortunate to be in a situation where SJs are a minority.

Heaven?

[rhinosaur]

Heaven?

Yes, Edahn. Heaven. Also known as first year grad school or "NT Hell."

[Hirsch63]

You know, if it is any consolation....the rigidity and perfectionism that an SJ is often saddled with...can lead in mid-life to...how should I say...Dire consequences. I believe few can endure a lifetime with someone so inflexible and critical...I would not have realized this several years ago. Unfortunately it the revalation was driven home to my very thick head in the most profound way. Ow.

My whole life led to a compounding interest of my SJ habits, unbridled. So I could not even see the train coming. :doh:

Yeah, I'm an SJ and you know we can suck...and if we do we eventually pay.

[Nocapszy]

They suck because my dad is one and he doesn't like me. He loves me, 'cause he's an SJ and 'it's the rules' but he doesn't like me. He says he does, but he's full of shit. Another annoying trait of SJs.

ISFJs are cool though.

[JivinJeffJones]

Disclaimer: based only on the SJs I know irl, and possibly only on the unhealthily extreme ones.

1. Unoriginal
2. Unwilling to explore new ideas without having someone they consider authoritative to hold their hand and tell them what they should believe at the end of it
3. Ultimately unable to justify why they believe what they believe

[Mort Belfry]

1,2&3: They never have anything interesting to say.

[pure_mercury]

1,2&3: They never have anything interesting to say.

That is strange. I am known amongst my friends for being rather witty, zany, and eminently quotable (I am more than one Away message on AIM).

[Mort Belfry]

That is strange. I am known amongst my friends for being rather witty, zany, and eminently quotable (I am more than one Away message on AIM).

Your friends are wrong.

I'm joking. I was thinking of two STJs I know in particular who bore me to death with ridiculous detail, one of which is my mother.

[pure_mercury]

Your friends are wrong.

I'm joking. I was thinking of two STJs I know in particular who bore me to death with ridiculous detail, one of which is my mother.

Well, I am a planner, that is for sure. I read online for weeks before trips, finding the best restaurants, hotel rates, etc., and I will go on about good times, funny stories. I think that I have that gift of gab, though. More so than, say, my father, who is outgoing and often funny, but strikes up inane conversations with convenience store workers, parking valets, and the like with some regularity.

[niki]

This is just my impression of my mom, ESFJ.

1) "Success is not a personal sense of achievement, it is how nice of a car you can buy."
2) She doesn't question tradition.
3) She is the rock that holds down my balloon. Imagination is childish to her and is not up to par with being a "sensible" person.

I can't agree more than this.
you've listed all three of them right-on-spot!
sigh...my ISTJ dad & ISFJ mom....

[pure_mercury]

I can't agree more than this.
you've listed all three of them right-on-spot!
sigh...my ISTJ dad & ISFJ mom....

Wow, none of this sounds like me at all. . .

[Night]

Forgive my presumption, pure_mercury, but you seem less an ESFJ than an ENFP.

I suspect you're the latter.

[pure_mercury]

Forgive my presumption, pure_mercury, but you seem less an ESFJ than an ENFP.

I suspect you're the latter.

Why would you think that?

[Night]

Without going too deeply into specific instances, you seem less inclined towards immediate detail than in projecting personal hypothesis culled from existing data (Hugo Chavez / Primary Results thread).

It's a bit like focusing on the organic whole of a unit, rather than on the interstitial cells.

[evan]

Why would you think that?

yeah, you definitely strike me as an N. ENFJ or something?

your opinions are not SJish.

[pure_mercury]

yeah, you definitely strike me as an N. ENFJ or something?

your opinions are not SJish.

What would an SJish opinion be like?

[evan]

What would an SJish opinion be like?

an SJish opinion would be like quoting someone else's opinion. :)

[pure_mercury]

an SJish opinion would be like quoting someone else's opinion. :)

I actually do that a fair amount in person. "To quote/paraphrase Marx/William F. Buckley, Jr./Paul Westerberg. . ." ;)

[evan]

I actually do that a fair amount in person. "To quote/paraphrase Marx/William F. Buckley, Jr./Paul Westerberg. . ." ;)

meh, you could easily be right. i've only read a few of your posts. i remember one in particular that made me think N, though. i'll let you know if i find it.

also, i wouldn't have posted anything at all had it not been for Night. i trust his instinct.

[pure_mercury]

meh, you could easily be right. i've only read a few of your posts. i remember one in particular that made me think N, though. i'll let you know if i find it.

also, i wouldn't have posted anything at all had it not been for Night. i trust his instinct.

IIRC, when I took whichever test it was, I was a very expressed extrovert, low expressed sensing, moderately expressed Feeling and Judging. I think the E was like 89%, F and J in the 30s, and S was 10 or 12. So ENFJ may be close, as well. I think that the E and the J are probably the surest bets, but that may also be that those traits (E vs. I, and P vs. J) seem most readily apparent in people for me.

[evan]

IIRC, when I took whichever test it was, I was a very expressed extrovert, low expressed sensing, moderately expressed Feeling and Judging. I think the E was like 89%, F and J in the 30s, and S was 10 or 12. So ENFJ may be close, as well. I think that the E and the J are probably the surest bets, but that may also be that those traits (E vs. I, and P vs. J) seem most readily apparent in people for me.

oh. you got your score from an online test? most of those are extremely inaccurate, especially if your scores are somewhere near the middle.

try this one, it's probably the best one on the net (maybe 50-60% accuracy?)

Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/survey.html)

[Night]

ENFx.

Your language reminds me favorably of my father - also an ENFP.

[pure_mercury]

oh. you got your score from an online test? most of those are extremely inaccurate, especially if your scores are somewhere near the middle.

try this one, it's probably the best one on the net (maybe 50-60% accuracy?)

Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/survey.html)

That test has me as ESFP, with ISFP and ESTP as the other possibilities.

[Taberculosis]

Man. I did not know people felt so strongly about SJs.

It bothers me a little how so few SJs replied to this thread......

If this were about INTJ's I'm sure they'd be all in our faces (so to speak) about how they are so much smarter and can manipulate anything or anyone because they will one day rule the world. ...Oh wait excuse me.... how they ALREADY rule the world just by being alive. .....probably followed by thinking "I hope no one can tell I'm really insecure"

[pure_mercury]

Man. I did not know people felt so strongly about SJs.

It bothers me a little how so few SJs replied to this thread......

If this were about INTJ's I'm sure they'd be all in our faces (so to speak) about how they are so much smarter and can manipulate anything or anyone because they will one day rule the world. ...Oh wait excuse me.... how they ALREADY rule the world just by being alive. .....probably followed by thinking "I hope no one can tell I'm really insecure"

As an ESFJ, I WANT to like everyone. God forbid you really cross me or someone I care about, though.

[Jeffster]

They're the ones who make me get up so early. :sleeping::mad::censored:

[Haphazard]

Man. I did not know people felt so strongly about SJs.

It bothers me a little how so few SJs replied to this thread......

If this were about INTJ's I'm sure they'd be all in our faces (so to speak) about how they are so much smarter and can manipulate anything or anyone because they will one day rule the world. ...Oh wait excuse me.... how they ALREADY rule the world just by being alive. .....probably followed by thinking "I hope no one can tell I'm really insecure"

Dude, Have you even SEEN the INTJ hate thread? (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/5464-official-intj-haters-thread.html)

And I quote, "Having a thread about hating INTJs is like talking about self harm to people who enjoy it."

They're the ones who make me get up so early. :sleeping::mad::censored:

Yeah. I think that's my only big problem with SJs. So what if I want to sleep until 3 PM?

[Jeffster]

Yeah. I think that's my only big problem with SJs. So what if I want to sleep until 3 PM?

The cool thing is that the NTs made it more bearable by designing fast-food breakfast drive-thrus. Of course, the bad part about that is it's probly what made us fat. Quick and easy access to McGriddles is a dangerous thing for SPs. :laugh:

[pure_mercury]

Yeah. I think that's my only big problem with SJs. So what if I want to sleep until 3 PM?

I am an SJ who likes to get a lot of sleep in, too. I need it, because I am busy pretty much the entire time I am awake. I actually was just telling my friend the other day that I need a treadmill with a speakerphone built into it, and he called me a lunatic.

[quietgirl]

They're the ones who make me get up so early. :sleeping::mad::censored:

Hahahaha. I'm an INFJ and I do that! My ISFJ boyfriend does too, so it works because we both hate to waste a day - especially if it's really nice outside.

On the rare occasion one of us sleeps in, the other gets really antsy.

[Beat]

ISTJ ftw.

[MetalWounds]

ISTJs are pretty kickass.

[jungie]

My last date was ISFJ - two hours out of my life I could have spent elsewhere - I could have even cleaned my bedroom.
Boring, conventional and no backbone. Actually no bones at all. And so GUARDED!
In a way it was like being stuck in a library for a month but being unable to read any of the books.
Not for me.

[Hmm]

Did Uberfurher get banned cause he hated SJ's?

[Little Linguist]

Awww, you guys don't phase me - I generally win you all over anyway and help you to take that great, big giant tree out of your ass. :devil::party2:

[toonia]

My last date was ISFJ - two hours out of my life I could have spent elsewhere - I could have even cleaned my bedroom.
Boring, conventional and no backbone. Actually no bones at all. And so GUARDED!Wow. In a weird way that actually sounds like a rather interesting date with unique potential of sorts. OH MY!

In a way it was like being stuck in a library for a month but being unable to read any of the books.
Not for me.To be fair, it isn't so easy getting off the floor to reach a book when you don't have any bones.

SJs aren't terribly understood in these parts. It is especially important to have more SJs posting on these boards to help balance the perspective. ISFJs are known to have analytic abilities from their tertiary Ti, and a impish sense of humor. People create stereotypes of each type and then project those onto people when they meet them whether or not that person ever took an MBTI test - let alone a professional one.

[Little Linguist]

Okay, when I saw this thread, I immediately thought of something.

To phrase it another way, let me give you crazy SJs a piece of advice.

You will really feel much, much better if you just did this:


http://www.novaksblog.com/pictures/14_9_07%20moments%20frozen%20in%20time%205th%20par t/fire%20fart.jpg

Sorry guys!!!!!!! :rofl1:

[Hmm]

What a smelly thread. Hmph.

*sticks nose up in the air and walks away*

[mlittrell]

Hey, now, we can't forget the Sensors!


They nag you about little details.
To them, SPs are hyperactive, NFs are bipolar, and NTs are autistic.
They take things too seriously.


without SJ's this world would be under utter chaos...this is a pointless thread. These are things that they can work on...but these are also things that are required for our culture to operate.

[mlittrell]

this thread is literally shamefull

[Usehername]

without SJ's this world would be under utter chaos...this is a pointless thread. These are things that they can work on...but these are also things that are required for our culture to operate.

this thread is literally shamefull

There's a thread exactly like this for each of the subforum types. It's not any disrespect meant toward SJs, check out the INTx one (which is probably the most common type on this board, and waayyy longer a thread, if I remember correctly). It's also a STICKY in the NT forum, if that says anything. :D

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/867-top-three-reasons-why-ints-suck.html <=

[mlittrell]

i just think it should be worded different...I could see SJ's taking this as disrespectful (i dunno im not an sj)

though i thank you for informing me that these are kinda standard, kinda feel like a dick now, but even still, could be top 3 things SJ's need to WORK on...not why they suck

there are big differences between INTJ's and INTP's, i wonder why that notation is used, man im way too picky

thanks for the correction btw

[Spectre of the spam]

1. rigid people!
2. judgemental people!
3. naive people (never looking behind the meaning of words)!



Number 3 isn't true at all. I always assume people are jerks behind their facade of 'niceness' untill i'm proven wrong.

[Usehername]

i just think it should be worded different...I could see SJ's taking this as disrespectful (i dunno im not an sj)

though i thank you for informing me that these are kinda standard, kinda feel like a dick now

You weren't informed, you were standing up for those whom you felt were being unfairly treated... nothing negative about that. Only positives. :)

[mlittrell]

:) thanks for the understanding, I appreciate it

[Little Linguist]

Awww, I was just kidding - I wasn't serious!!!!!!! I mean - c'mon, a lot of my really cool students are SJs, and I get along with them really well. Two of them are ESFJs and they are awesome.

;) I say weird things about every type, especially about myself. So no worries.

[mlittrell]

oh i do the same thing too. just didn't want anyone to take it the wrong way ya know :)

[Hmm]

i just think it should be worded different...I could see SJ's taking this as disrespectful (i dunno im not an sj)

though i thank you for informing me that these are kinda standard, kinda feel like a dick now, but even still, could be top 3 things SJ's need to WORK on...not why they suck

there are big differences between INTJ's and INTP's, i wonder why that notation is used, man im way too picky

thanks for the correction btw

Thanks for noticing. :hug:

[mlittrell]

welcome :)

[Condor]

From personal experience (and a lot of it...)

Reason number 3 - Complete and utter literalism - I went with a coworker to a pizza resturant for an "All You Can Eat" buffet. There were a lot of different pizzas avilable, and salads, pastas, etc. I entered and looked around, planning where to sit, finding the restroom, etc. and noticed the sign for the lunch buffet customers: 1)Pay cashier 2)Take tray. When I did those two things I sat down. And waited. Nowhere on the sign did it say to get food. :doh: Once clued in, I did enjoy a nice lunch. The price was reasonable, and the food served it's purpose...oh wait - sorry.

Reason number 2 - Boring - I admit it (although probably more so for the I vs. E). When I took the entire test (there were about fifty of us at the time taking it, IIRC), the administrator then showed type differences with role playing, etc. She asked for anyone who scored above 80 on the "I" scale. About six or seven of us stood up. She then asked for those who scored over 85. Two of us were left standing. She asked what our scores were. Again, IIRC, mine was about 95. Similarly high scores for S, T and J. The adminsitrator didn't use me for an example after the second time because "his answers would just be the same." Heck, I thought that was the point.

And the number 1 reason - wait, what exactly is the criteria for "top three"? Each individual's top three reasons, a collective vote on the top three reasons, top three from SJ's themselves; how can you call a list "top three" without some kind of objective criteria? Reading the posts from the start it seems like "top sixty-two" or something. Can the thread be renamed?

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Beat]

We kick ass. Deal with it.

[Anja]

I have been dealing with it for- ----forty-one years! Is my butt sore!

My ISTJ husband sometimes wears a button which says "Rule #1. I am never wrong. Rule #2. If I'm ever wrong, see Rule #1.

He has no idea how hillarious I find this.

[Beat]

I have been dealing with it for- ----forty-one years! Is my butt sore!

My ISTJ husband sometimes wears a button which says "Rule #1. I am never wrong. Rule #2. If I'm ever wrong, see Rule #1.

He has no idea how hillarious I find this.

An INFP with an ISTJ husband. :nice:

Has it been a rough ride, honestly?

[FDG]

Well I don't have a problem with them in general. I think that their main problem is a problem for them more than for everybody else: they sometimes do things that are not very much...needed and produce unintended consequences. An good example is the ISFJ putting things in order before they've been used; or my ISTJ dad cleaning his bike every time he uses it, or my ESTJ boss needing to re-check every calculation four times before being sure he's right.

[EJCC]

Not sure if this applies to all SJs or just to me:

1. The constant (and illogical) belief that everyone is as honest as them (making them almost depressingly gullible, especially on april fool's day)

2. MUST. BE. ORGANIZED. ALL. THE. TIME.

3. Fear of change. Even if it's totally unimportant change. Who cares? Routine must be kept at all costs!

[Jack Flak]

without SJ's this world would be under utter chaos...
Ah yes, beautiful, beautiful chaos. I can't wait another day.

http://www.scottsimmons.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/hdrp_0602_best_car_movies_12_z+road_warrior.jpg

[Spectre of the spam]

Not sure if this applies to all SJs or just to me:

1. The constant (and illogical) belief that everyone is as honest as them (making them almost depressingly gullible, especially on april fool's day)

2. MUST. BE. ORGANIZED. ALL. THE. TIME.

3. Fear of change. Even if it's totally unimportant change. Who cares? Routine must be kept at all costs!

It's not just you...

[Beat]

Fear of change is a big one with me. I like routine, I'll admit it. Being forced into situations that I don't have control over is a little unsettling for me.

[Cimarron]

Fear of change is a big one with me. I like routine, I'll admit it. Being forced into situations that I don't have control over is a little unsettling for me.
Quite unsettling for me, too. I feel like I have to have control over my situation before I head into things, otherwise I get really uneasy. That doesn't mean having control over others' situations (maybe if I were more extroverted or something...?); unless they're going to do something unexpected that affects me, I don't care. And I let go of routine for the small things, like during leisure time.
Complete and utter literalism - I went with a coworker to a pizza resturant for an "All You Can Eat" buffet. There were a lot of different pizzas avilable, and salads, pastas, etc. I entered and looked around, planning where to sit, finding the restroom, etc. and noticed the sign for the lunch buffet customers: 1)Pay cashier 2)Take tray. When I did those two things I sat down. And waited. Nowhere on the sign did it say to get food. Once clued in, I did enjoy a nice lunch. The price was reasonable, and the food served it's purpose... Funny because it's true. I always have the feeling that someone should explain the rules to me in those kind of open-ended situations. I feel kind of dorky that they just expect you to know what to do...I mean I can figure out a way to make it work, but is that "way" going to be okay with them?

[InaF3157]

What a smelly thread. Hmph.

*sticks nose up in the air and walks away*

hehehe. I like it!
(your response that is, no opinion either way on the thread.)

Anyway, each type serves an important function, and I appreciate a lot of what SJs bring to the table, at times more so than my own type. Maybe because I'm not an anarchist. Somebody has to do all the work of creating stability and regulations, maintaining the traditions and rituals that enrich humanity, being all-round conservators, etc.
Can drive you nuts sometimes, but the flip side of any good thing is likely to do that.

[Headstrong]

I have been dealing with it for- ----forty-one years! Is my butt sore!

My ISTJ husband sometimes wears a button which says "Rule #1. I am never wrong. Rule #2. If I'm ever wrong, see Rule #1.

He has no idea how hillarious I find this.

My father.

To a "T."

And when I prove him wrong and there is visible proof (*cough* his way of putting together a wire dog crate vs. my way *cough*) that mine is correct, he'll never say words "I was wrong" or "you were right." He acts like it was his idea in the first place! He didn't think my intuition, later confirmed by pictures, was enough reason to influence the construction of a dog crate.

Sorry, rant over.

[EvanTheClown]

aw, so much sadfacing on this thread for the guardians.

Oh well, my take on it.

Guardians let their sense of morality and dependability get in the way of having fun and being yourself IMO. (of course, morals and responsibility IS who they are, but there's more to the cookie than that)



Not to mention, this is from the perspective of the ENFP :P, so having fun was inevitably going to be mentioned

[Bella]

My father.

To a "T."

And when I prove him wrong and there is visible proof (*cough* his way of putting together a wire dog crate vs. my way *cough*) that mine is correct, he'll never say words "I was wrong" or "you were right." He acts like it was his idea in the first place! He didn't think my intuition, later confirmed by pictures, was enough reason to influence the construction of a dog crate.

Sorry, rant over.

I want to defend myself! It is VERY easy for me to apologize when I have made a mistake or offended someone and when it's not a personal thing I will give in as soon as their is evidence of me being wrong.

[booyalab]

This is only one reason, but one way in which SJs suck is in how terrible they are at acknowledging their shortcomings...or at least letting other people discuss their shortcomings.
Cue next SJ post: "Nuh uh! I'm always open to criticism! I know all of my flaws...like being too responsible and caring too much about other people and working too hard."

[Bella]

:blush:

[Cimarron]

I want to defend myself! It is VERY easy for me to apologize when I have made a mistake or offended someone and when it's not a personal thing I will give in as soon as their is evidence of me being wrong.
Yup, true for me too. Now, if it is something important to me, or something I've put a lot of time and energy into, I won't like admitting it--and if it gets really personal, like in a fight, I might not admit it at all--but I usually will. Especially when the facts are there. (So basically what Bella said, paraphrased. :alttongue:)
And notice I skipped Booyalab's post, but kind of responded to it. Revelant to our discussion...? :D

[EJCC]

This is only one reason, but one way in which SJs suck is in how terrible they are at acknowledging their shortcomings...or at least letting other people discuss their shortcomings.
Cue next SJ post: "Nuh uh! I'm always open to criticism! I know all of my flaws...like being too responsible and caring too much about other people and working too hard."

I'm sorry to say it, but you're right. (I do NOT care too much about other people... when people get emotional, I want to hide in a corner. Same with myself, actually.)

But Bella and Cimarron are right, too. I admit it when I'm wrong if I didn't put a whole lot of time and effort and commitment into whatever I was arguing. If it's a petty thing, than I'll be happy to side with the correct argument instead of my own. HOWEVER, if I get really into an argument and then realize I'm completely off base, my reaction is such severe embarrassment that I don't want to even talk about that topic anymore. (Hence the "not letting other people discuss their shortcomings".)

Slightly related anecdote (with the fault being something entirely different):

EJCC: *trips and falls in large crowd, skins knee*
Crowd: *gathers round* OMG, are you OK?
EJCC: *embarrassed, mad* YES! Go away! Leave me alone!!

When a normal person would have responded:
Normal person: Yeah, I'm OK. Just tripped over a crack in the sidewalk. Dumb, huh?

[OneWithSoul]

Just because they're different doesn't mean they aren't right..they just march to the beat of a different drum, not too different then everyone else's. After all, nothing is right or wrong..it's just different..and it makes you a better person to except it and learn from them.

[runvardh]

EJCC: *trips and falls in large crowd, skins knee*
Crowd: *gathers round* OMG, are you OK?
EJCC: *embarrassed, mad* YES! Go away! Leave me alone!!

When a normal person would have responded:
Normal person: Yeah, I'm OK. Just tripped over a crack in the sidewalk. Dumb, huh?

This reminds me of one time when I twisted my ankle, every one was so focused on "are you ok?" and I had to shout for ice 3 times before someone actually realized I was asking for something. Yes I'm hurt, I don't care about the verbal coddling; just help me solve the problem or piss off. By the way, never say what you're actually thinking while out with a church group :doh:

[Grayscale]

Wow. In a weird way that actually sounds like a rather interesting date with unique potential of sorts. OH MY!

more seriously, it does sounds like someone who might have a lot of undeveloped potential. i guess some people want everything on a platter. :alttongue:


i like SJs! they always know what's up, and sometimes it's better to just have that comfort even if it's not always right. they're also supposedly very reliable.

the way i see it, everyone can bring something to the table... ill bet those "uptight" people (who very well could be another type, actually) could be a lot of fun if you give them a nudge. afterwards, that sort of attitude can help you avoid the stress of missing appointments and bills. :)

[Hmm]

more seriously, it does sounds like someone who might have a lot of undeveloped potential. i guess some people want everything on a platter. :alttongue:


i like SJs! they always know what's up, and sometimes it's better to just have that comfort even if it's not always right. they're also supposedly very reliable.

the way i see it, everyone can bring something to the table... ill bet those "uptight" people (who very well could be another type, actually) could be a lot of fun if you give them a nudge. afterwards, that sort of attitude can help you avoid the stress of missing appointments and bills. :)

:hug: