The Job Search Thread

[nottaprettygal]

This thread is for everyone who is searching for a job to post about their failures and successes (but probably more about failures).

Okay. I'll get things started:

Resume: Master's degree in public policy, interested in criminal justice, knowledge of statistical software (80% true), lack of work experience, one internship, willing to work for shitty pay

Successes: One interview. Wasn't really excited about the job in the first place. . . was told that I am overqualified.

Failures: Can't seem to find any jobs that I would love to have

Current Status: Have 5 resumes floating out there.

Strategy: Apply for jobs that only require a Bachelor's degree, so I seem more desirable. No word if strategy is working.

Next steps: I'm thinking of spamming organizations and sending my resume everywhere even if there are no openings. I don't really want to do this.

Hopefully there are other people out there in a similar situation.

[SillyGoose]

I've just started searching for a job in the midwest where I'd like to move to by December this past week.

I have the same basic resume, but tweak it for each position I am applying to. I'm fairly certain I could get an admin assistant job pretty easily, but I really don't want to go that route while looking for a better suited job for me.

We'll see, I guess. I plan on flying out there in a month or so to go on interviews since I'm a tad concerned that my application won't be taken seriously since I'm not actually living there.

[nottaprettygal]

Oh sweet. I was beginning to think that I was the only one.

You mentioned an admin assistant job, but what sort of job would you actually like to have?

I get a little worried because I know I could get the same type of administrative job, but this is the beginning of my career, and the first job sort of sets the direction that I will likely head for the rest of my career. And I certainly don't want to do office work forever.

*sigh* But I need money.

It must be tough searching from a distance though.

[Jack Flak]

Strategy: Apply for jobs that only require a Bachelor's degree, so I seem more desirable. No word if strategy is working.
This strategy is not 100% efficient. Some employers prefer not to hire the over-qualified because they estimate said people will leave the job if a more appropriate position becomes available--thus wasting the employer's resources in acclimating the hiree.

[nottaprettygal]

This strategy is not 100% efficient. Some employers prefer not to hire the over-qualified because they estimate said people will leave the job if a more appropriate position becomes available--thus wasting the employer's resources in acclimating the hiree.

Good point. Actually, the place I interviewed for seemed to have the exact same worry. She said that she thought I would get bored, see other jobs pop up, and want to apply for them. Even though I tried to reassure her that this wasn't the case and that I would commit for two years, ultimately, I think my overqualification was a bad thing.

I feel screwed either way. I don't have the experience for the master's degree jobs. Maybe applying for Bachelor's degree jobs that require experience is more effective.

Although after sending out five resumes and not hearing anything, the strategy may change to applying for any job that seems somewhat relevant. :sad:

[bluebell]

What about temp work to get some experience? And presumably they won't care too much if you're overqualified, because it's not a long-term job thing?

I started out on a 2 month contract where I currently work. Not sure if this is how things work in the US, but my temp contract got extended for a year (with a promotion), followed by getting a permanent position in the organisation. 4 years later and a couple of internal moves later, I'm still there and in a job that matches me pretty well. I had no full-time work experience before this - just a lot of temp jobs/summer jobs.

Edit: er, this was for people currently looking for work. But I was in your position 4 years ago and thought I'd share.

[nottaprettygal]

What about temp work to get some experience? And presumably they won't care too much if you're overqualified, because it's not a long-term job thing?

I like the idea of temp-to-perm work because I know that once I am given a chance, I will prove myself to an employer. However, I can't seem to find any temp work that isn't purely administrative. It would be awesome to find research temp work, but I haven't seen any. I will look into this further though.

Do you mind sharing what line of work you starting temping in and what type of job you have now?

I plan to temp if I do not get a job by the end of the year.

[Geoff]

Good point. Actually, the place I interviewed for seemed to have the exact same worry. She said that she thought I would get bored, see other jobs pop up, and want to apply for them. Even though I tried to reassure her that this wasn't the case and that I would commit for two years, ultimately, I think my overqualification was a bad thing.

I feel screwed either way. I don't have the experience for the master's degree jobs. Maybe applying for Bachelor's degree jobs that require experience is more effective.

Although after sending out five resumes and not hearing anything, the strategy may change to applying for any job that seems somewhat relevant. :sad:

As someone involved in recruitment, there are two approaches to getting someone into a "decent" job. The first is graduate entry, which is a lottery.. the best way to do this is the online applications, where most big professional firms (accountants, lawyers etc etc) will take applications and then select.. it's all a bit random, but it's easy to get on the list. The in take may only be once a year.

The second, is qualified by experience. You don't have this - but it is a route. Here's the risk.. you really will work for shitty pay and you may struggle to get into the level you want to, because you've been in the wrong place. It worked ok for me, but I spent a number of years on seriously poor pay before it paid off.

If I were you, I'd blanket bomb all the graduate entry schemes at major companies of all sorts.. management, banking, finance, accountancy, law etc etc. That gets you in with graduate entry pay and a resume start.

[Xander]

8+ years in the same job... very little money or respect to show for it... you bet your ass I'm looking for a job.

Successes,
Kick ass "CV" (I've been told that Curriculum Vitae/ CV is so passe now... apparently)
Good experience
God like NT approach to problems ( :whistling: )

Failures,
Get job interview
Find employer I like the look of
Getting over seeing jobs requiring like 3 degrees for a fiver an hour

Plan,
Sulk.

Status,
Thinking about sulking.

It's kind of odd really. I get people asking me to fix their PCs or questions about technology and such but any employer won't even consider people who haven't gone in for an MCSE or some such (and they are REALLY boring courses) and yet my IT Pro mate reckons that the IT guys themselves don't pay any attention to MCSE qualifications. Kinda makes me wonder when they'll stop asking admin or middle management people do the recruiting for IT jobs...

[Jack Flak]

It's an SJ world.

[Economica]

Hopefully there are other people out there in a similar situation.

:hi:

Resume: Master's degree in economics (well, in less than two months). Experience from student analyst positions in market research, both on the consultant side (both qualitative and quantitative research) and the client side (FMCG).

Successes: I have an idea that I plan to pitch to a local wealthy philanthropist. I have made initial contact with said individual, and he was receptive.

Failures: Can't seem to find any jobs that I would love to have.

*2. I'm not Extroverted enough to (enjoy) be(ing) a consultant, and corporate life both bored and scared the life out of me (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/27359-post3.html). I'd totally do a Ph.D. but 1) I really don't want to teach (which is a requirement for internally financed positions at my university) and 2) offhand I can't think of any research I could do that someone in the real world would pay me to do. I do know I'm looking for a way to make a living that involves lots of writing.

Another failure: I have had the aforementioned idea for 15 months now. :doh: I have twice attempted to write the pitch, but I was only too happy to let my master's thesis take priority both times. I rather think I must be psychologically blocked. Stay tuned come November when I will give it my next shot!

Current Status: Thesis-writing.

Strategy and next steps: I will attend a networking event in October for would-be Ph.D. students and companies and organizations interested in financing them. Also, see Failures. Failing both ph.d. and pitch, I'll probably try corporate life again (if I can resist the shameful temptation to just collect unemployment benefits (which are generous in my country)). Even if my last job kind of sucked, at least I experienced firsthand that there's nothing like job dissatisfaction for generating new ideas! :yes:

---

Yes, all you experienced folks get to roll your eyes at my ambition to actually enjoy working (even in my first job(s)). I get to be naively hopeful for a little while longer. :headphne:

[Lateralus]

I suggest taking hostages.

[bluebell]

I like the idea of temp-to-perm work because I know that once I am given a chance, I will prove myself to an employer. However, I can't seem to find any temp work that isn't purely administrative. It would be awesome to find research temp work, but I haven't seen any. I will look into this further though.

Do you mind sharing what line of work you starting temping in and what type of job you have now?

I plan to temp if I do not get a job by the end of the year.

I prefer not to say exactly what my line of work is, but it's an office job which involves a bit of engineering nous.

I got my first temp job by word of mouth. A friend knew I was looking for work and sent me a job ad from where she was working. I got the 2 month contract mostly because I knew how to use Excel, and I also had some specific technical knowledge that was relevant to that team.

A few months before that, I did a week of unpaid experience at a small company which is how I solved the problem of not having any referees. (I helped sort out something urgent for the company in that week, so I managed to leave a good impression).

[Lexlike]

It's an SJ world.

you can add extraverted too, in my opinion....

[Jack Flak]

I accept.

It's an ESxJ world.

[ptgatsby]

I accept.

It's an ESxJ world.

Meaning, ESxJs are on top? Or because the traits that ESxJs are the most needed?

[Lexlike]

Meaning, ESxJs are on top? Or because the traits that ESxJs are the most needed?

I think the best formulation is the type which is best adapted to the requirements of the real world... (that does not mean exactly that they are on top of society)

[ptgatsby]

I think the best formulation is the type which is best adapted to the requirements of the real world... (that does not mean exactly that they are on top of society)

So, that'd be the personality that would largest exceed their population distribution, by virtue of having the traits that are best adapted to our environment.

It's an NTJ world, then. An INTJ world.

[Lexlike]

So, that'd be the personality that would largest exceed their population distribution, by virtue of having the traits that are best adapted to our environment.

It's an NTJ world, then. An INTJ world.

how do you come to this conclusion???

[Jack Flak]

Meaning, ESxJs are on top? Or because the traits that ESxJs are the most needed?
It's because they're most responsible for the construction and maintenance of the infrastructure of human society. /END

[Jen]

This thread is for everyone who is searching for a job to post about their failures and successes (but probably more about failures).
Have you tried LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/)?

[proteanmix]

LinkedIn is pretty good professional networking.

Temping is how most of my friends got their permanent jobs. One my friends has a master's degree as well and is looking for jobs through temp agencies. If she likes the organization she looks for openings. The one problem with that is the agency may charge the employer a fee and they may not want to hire depending on how steep it is.

Temping and volunteering your services to pad out your resume sounds like a good idea and so is SPAMMING! That's an excellent way to get your name out there. I did it too.

Using Employment Agencies Successfully (http://www.collegegrad.com/jobsearch/Network-Intelligence-Gathering/Using-Employment-Agencies-Successfully/)
Temp Job | Choosing a Temp Agency (http://www.salary.com/careers/layouthtmls/crel_display_nocat_Ser105_Par202.html)
Temp Jobs - Finding a Temp Agency (http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/tempjobs/a/tempjobs.htm)

If your interest is public policy/criminal justice you may want to check out state/county/city governments. I don't know exactly how you're searching but when I got my internships I typed in my field of interest into a search and got a list of all the organizations associated with that field and contacted them and asked if they had anything at all available. I got lots of nos, and a few yeses and one of them got me my second internship. Are you interested in the non-profit leg of criminal justice? There's a registry of all non-profit organizations in the US and I think it's indexed according to topic as well. There seems to be a lot of unpaid internships for 3-6 months out there. And you have a MA so that should make you extra plump and juicy!

[nottaprettygal]

Have you tried LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/)?

No, I've never heard of it. The site looks interesting. Thanks!

Temping is how most of my friends got their permanent jobs.

What kind of jobs are these? Most of the temp jobs I find seem purely administrative. However, I did find a agency that advertises jobs in non-profits and supposedly there are some research ones available. I'm definitely going to start going down the temp road, methinks.

Temping and volunteering your services to pad out your resume sounds like a good idea and so is SPAMMING!

Not to sound stupid, but what exactly do you mean by spamming? Is it just sending resumes to lots and lots of companies? This is what my dad and hubby suggested, but I have read on numerous websites that this is a bad idea. Supposedly, only two out of every 100 unsolicited resumes gets read.

Do you have a different method of spamming?


If your interest is public policy/criminal justice you may want to check out state/county/city governments. . . Are you interested in the non-profit leg of criminal justice? There's a registry of all non-profit organizations in the US and I think it's indexed according to topic as well. There seems to be a lot of unpaid internships for 3-6 months out there.

There are a lot of internships out there. However, it's really important for me to start making money now, so I don't think that an unpaid internship is an option. I am more interested in nonprofit criminal justice organizations, but I have also checked out state/county/city websites. I can't find anything at this point. So, I've expanded out to nonprofits that focus on children, education, and health.

The more I think about it, the more I think temping may be the best way to go. I will check out those websites you gave me. D.C. has a lot of temp agencies (as I'm sure you know), so finding something promising should not be a problem.

[FDG]

You don't have connections? Friends whose fathers are owners of midsized firms, for example? (I understand this is more of an Italian way of finding a job...)

[Jack Flak]

You don't have connections? Friends whose fathers are owners of midsized firms, for example? (I understand this is more of an Italian way of finding a job...)
I swear to God, if I were Italian I'd be executive V.P. of something by now *arrogance*

[Little Linguist]

Hmmm...is it really that hard to find a job??? :shock:

[nottaprettygal]

You don't have connections? Friends whose fathers are owners of midsized firms, for example? (I understand this is more of an Italian way of finding a job...)

To be honest, I don't really have many friends at this point. My old friends were stoners, so I doubt they have great connections. My family (and my entire hometown, really) is very blue collar. If I wanted a job hanging mini-blinds, I got the hook up.

However, through this process I have learned how important networking is, so when I do land a job, I will try to build relationships with people in the organization. *shudder*

Hmmm...is it really that hard to find a job??? :shock:

Shush. That kind of talk doesn't help. And depending on your field, it's hard to find a job that is interesting with very little previous experience.

Yesterday I sent out three more resumes and contacted a temp agency, so we'll see how that goes.

[FDG]

However, through this process I have learned how important networking is, so when I do land a job, I will try to build relationships with people in the organization. *shudder*


Well I don't like networking either. I just have had those friends since childhood, but perhaps here midsized firms are more common so that's why.

[Not_Me]

Networking is suppose to be the most effective strategy. I've actually seen it in action recently. Someone I know spent months sending out resumes with limited success. I suggested to him that he should call his old colleagues, whom he barely kept in touch with. Within 3 weeks, he got a new position.

[bluemonday]

8+ years in the same job... very little money or respect to show for it... you bet your ass I'm looking for a job.


The key to financial success in IT, for us non-competitive INTP-types, is to specialize in future-relevant technologies. (e.g. .Net is pretty hot right now).

Specializing effectively reduces the competition. Even HR people know MCSE isn't worth sh*t but it's a way of sifting the pile without putting much thought into it. I have some specialist qualifications but they aren't current. I'm just rare and that makes me valuable. What I do doesn't require a lot of intelligence or skill, but there aren't many people who do it and there are quite a lot of organizations that need it so I get paid way more than I deserve. Maximum reward for minimum effort has always been my motto. Job satisfaction is for wimps.

Also, whore yourself out to agencies. They are the spawn of the devil, but they are motivated to place you (pimps!).

If security isn't important, consider contracting - you get a lot of experience in a lot of different environments quickly.

Also, bluff ESTP-stylie. It works.

[ygolo]

This thread is for everyone who is searching for a job to post about their failures and successes (but probably more about failures).


Resume: Master's degree in electrical engineering, 7+ years of Integrated Circuit experience, last 1.5 years working on custom instead of synthesized circuits. In addition, 1+ years as a software engineer, with a fair amount of software written while officially being an IC developer also.

Successes: Many business ideas partially conceived. One interview. Felt really overqualified after I heard what the job actually was, let lack of enthusiasm show.

Failures: Too comfortable in current situation to take any real risk. Slowly dying inside. Really, a lot of somatization going on. Turns out my vertigo the last few days was because of a spike in blood-pressure.

Current Status: Out-dated resume in company database. More out-dated ones online at job-search sites.

Strategy: Get over my fear of change by writing up various business plans, grant proposals, till one really inspires me to pursue as an opportunity.

Next steps: Write up plan for my next idea to see if it gets me motivated.

Have you tried LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/)?

Yup I've been on there for a few years now.

[nottaprettygal]

ygolo, your resume sounds impressive when you're just discussing it casually in this thread. I understand the lack of motivation though when you're already doing alright in the job you have now (besides its supposed soul-sucking nature).
--

Well. . . I have a job interview on Monday for a social science research position at a market research firm. The downside is that I'm having trouble staying motivated in sending out resumes to other organizations because I am convinced that this is the one.

So the goal today is to send out 5 resumes. It's actually the cover letter that takes me forever to complete.

[ygolo]

Hopefully, the interview went well.

[nottaprettygal]

Hopefully, the interview went well.

Oh. Thanks for asking. I just got home.

Three possible good signs:
1) It lasted an hour and 15 minutes, which seems sort of long
2) I was the first person interviewed for the job. This could mean nothing, however.
3) The group manager who I interviewed with personally invited me back for a second group interview. When I told the HR lady afterwards about the invitation, she seemed surprised that I was already invited back at this point.

I hate this second interview stuff though . . . and with my competition? Maybe I'll just beat them up in the parking lot.

[Usehername]

Oh. Thanks for asking. I just got home.

Three possible good signs:
1) It lasted an hour and 15 minutes, which seems sort of long
2) I was the first person interviewed for the job. This could mean nothing, however.
3) The group manager who I interviewed with personally invited me back for a second group interview. When I told the HR lady afterwards about the invitation, she seemed surprised that I was already invited back at this point.

I hate this second interview stuff though . . . and with my competition? Maybe I'll just beat them up in the parking lot.

Congrats on the interview. :)

I'm sure you'll do well on the group interview--I'd show up early, be all friendly to get a read on the other applicants, letting them talk all they want, and try to read their weaknesses. Then I'd politely and assertively rebut their discussion points I'd have hopefully figured out, keeping my mouth shut for any unforeseen topic (likely there'd be very few) unless I had to speak because I'm personally not very good with improv.

Do you know who's interviewing you? Will it be the same person as today's interview? Would they rather have a "yes-man" employee who doesn't ruffle feathers, or a spunky Gen-Y Millennial that speaks her mind?

The other thing I've done in the past is project a ditzy dumb female image in the small talk before something important, and then Te-execute everyone who had let their guard down at crunch time.

[ygolo]

Well, being asked to come back for a second interview is always a good sign.

When is the next one?

[nottaprettygal]

Congrats on the interview. :)

I'm sure you'll do well on the group interview--I'd show up early, be all friendly to get a read on the other applicants, letting them talk all they want, and try to read their weaknesses. Then I'd politely and assertively rebut their discussion points I'd have hopefully figured out, keeping my mouth shut for any unforeseen topic (likely there'd be very few) unless I had to speak because I'm personally not very good with improv.

Do you know who's interviewing you? Will it be the same person as today's interview? Would they rather have a "yes-man" employee who doesn't ruffle feathers, or a spunky Gen-Y Millennial that speaks her mind?

The other thing I've done in the past is project a ditzy dumb female image in the small talk before something important, and then Te-execute everyone who had let their guard down at crunch time.

The next interview is with the research group that I would be working as a part of. The idea of all interviewing together seems like a nightmare, though. I don't like having to fight for attention. I would take the strategy of trying to figure out beforehand what strengths I have that others don't and then emphasizing that within the group. I would probably want to stray away from talking about everyone's weaknesses though, in order to appear more favorable in the eyes of the interviewers.

Hopefully, all of the candidates will meet separately with them though. And hopefully, everyone who interviews this week won't get asked back. :steam:


When is the next one?

It's sometime early to mid next week. She didn't seem really firm on the date, unfortunately.

I'm going to keep sending out the resumes, but I'll be pretty devestated if I don't get this position. It is absolutely perfect for me.

[Usehername]

The next interview is with the research group that I would be working as a part of. The idea of all interviewing together seems like a nightmare, though. I don't like having to fight for attention. I would take the strategy of trying to figure out beforehand what strengths I have that others don't and then emphasizing that within the group. I would probably want to stray away from talking about everyone's weaknesses though, in order to appear more favorable in the eyes of the interviewers.

Hopefully, all of the candidates will meet separately with them though. And hopefully, everyone who interviews this week won't get asked back. :steam:


I definitely didn't read properly. It does seem way less cutthroat an environment to interview with the employed group than the want-to-be-employed group. Nvmd then, your analysis is way better if you're not trying to edge out the competition during the interview--far different situation!

Good luck.

[nottaprettygal]

I definitely didn't read properly.

Actually, it's not just you. I'm not even firm on the details either. It may be meeting all together, like you said. I guess I was too busy dancing around in my head to actually listen to what she was saying to me. Guess I'll find out soon enough. :blush:

[Grayscale]

Resume: highly certified, no degree, architectural experience in large enterprise networks. be careful about who you give this to, recruiters will nag you for years even if you already have a job

Successes: from what i remember, ive gotten an offer from most jobs ive interview for. for my current job, i aced a 2 hour technical interview over the phone and they called me a few hours later with an offer. im sure i would fail horribly for anything requiring good social skills, but past that my technical prowess has sold pretty well.

Failures: being good at something doesnt mean youll enjoy it

Current Status: applied for commensurate top-tier troubleshooting position with another team

Strategy: find something i dont find boring for the time being

Next steps: going to college to study mechanical engineering in 1-2 yrs

[nottaprettygal]

Well. . . I just got back from the final interview. I met with two separate groups of three people that are members of the same project staff. I don't think it went well at all. I didn't say anything wrong, but I was completely nervous. When I get nervous I have a problem answering questions clearly and concisely without stumbling all over my words. I did so much research and so much preparation, and I really wanted to impress everyone, but I know that I didn't.

The good news is that I have a 33.3333333333% chance to get the position because only 3 people were given a final interview. The other good news is that I was given a final interview before she had even met the other candidates.

Regardless, I feel like I have to come up with strategies to deal with the disappointment of not getting a position, or I am going to start getting depressed.

This also leaves me with the question: How the hell do people actually get jobs? I asked Haight how all of those donkeys on INTPc can actually be employed and get through job interviews when their social skills are terrible. His only answer was, "computers."

I think I chose the wrong line of work. *sigh*

[proteanmix]

Computers is about right. :( Everyone in my IT department smells funny and looks at you too long.

[Condor]

One of the things I recommend to my students is to understand that the intreview is a two-way street. I make sure they know they are there to find out if the company and its personnel are good enough for them. We had a class where I sent the to research the companies they wished to work for. So when the inevitible "Do you have any questions for us?" comes up, you can ask about what they've been doing (e.g., "I noticed in December of last year you implemented the XYZ middle management policy. Can you give me your impressions of how it has been working?"). It may or may not directly relate to the position you're applying for, but it shows them you are informed about them, and consider yourself an equal to them as well.

It is literally ridiculous the amount of information about companies is available in the public domain. Emerging companies/technologies may be more difficult to find out, there may stil be something out there.

Whether or not what I can offer helps, best of luck with the job search! :)

[nottaprettygal]

It is literally ridiculous the amount of information about companies is available in the public domain. Emerging companies/technologies may be more difficult to find out, there may stil be something out there.

Whether or not what I can offer helps, best of luck with the job search! :)

I did research the company thoroughly and tried my best to relate their needs to my skills. I also formulated some thoughtful questions ahead of time. I almost think that I over-prepared and perhaps sounded a little too rehearsed. Currently, I am a little disappointed in myself, but I'm also still hopeful that I will get the position.

Do you do a lot of job interview coaching with your students? I'm always interested in suggestions from people who have a lot of experience with interviewing. . . especially if that person is an introvert.

Ugh. On a side note, I realized a terrible spelling error that I had on my resume today. Capitol Hill. . . not Capital Hill. ARGH!!! :doh: How many interviews has this cost me!?!

[Condor]

I did research the company thoroughly and tried my best to relate their needs to my skills. I also formulated some thoughtful questions ahead of time. I almost think that I over-prepared and perhaps sounded a little too rehearsed. Currently, I am a little disappointed in myself, but I'm also still hopeful that I will get the position.

Do you do a lot of job interview coaching with your students? I'm always interested in suggestions from people who have a lot of experience with interviewing. . . especially if that person is an introvert.

Ugh. On a side note, I realized a terrible spelling error that I had on my resume today. Capitol Hill. . . not Capital Hill. ARGH!!! :doh: How many interviews has this cost me!?!

I work with about 50 students a year, give or take a few that my grey hair helps me forget :) ...

I've had some of them also tell me they felt over-prepared, or had a crisis when the interview never got around to what they prepared for. Almost everyone interviews with the hope they'll "be approved" - for either the job itself or the next interview, or whatever.

Each person will do what is comfortable for them when they interview, but (as I mentioned earlier) what I advocate is that my students approach the interview from a point of view that they are interviewing the company to see if the company meets their needs. I don't want them to worry about whether they have the "right answers" for the questions. I want them to have "their" answers. When people speak from inside themselves they don't sound rehersed. They sound relaxed. Most of the nervousness can be caused from trying to find the "right answer" to a question.

You know that "Where do you see yourself in five years" question? I want my students to tell me where does the company see itself in five years. Will they even still be in business? I want the students to be solid in their belief in themselves. I don't want them going to an interview seeking "approval."

One of the things I have them do to help build their confidence is to decline the first offer of an interview. If they are asked to meet the interviewer(s) at 3pm, I want them to say that they can't make it at 3pm, but they could do the interview at 2pm - even if there was no reason to reschedule to 2pm in the first place.

The point I keep driving home to them is they had better see themselves as a valuable commodity that companies will want. They need to project that image. And they project that image because it's true.

I know for a fact that my beliefs about interviewing are because of my introverted nature. But that nature doesn't prevent me from being successful in dealing with interviews. Far from it - it actually strengthens my chance at success. Rather than seeking approval from the company, I consider the interview a chance for the company to seek my approval ("I have a few questions I would to ask before I consider any offer you may decide to make").

I know it sounds "rah rah", but confidence and professionalism carries a great deal of weight from employers I speak with.

[Economica]

I'd totally do a Ph.D. but 1) I really don't want to teach (which is a requirement for internally financed positions at my university)

... There's nothing like desperation for relaxing one's requirements, is there? :whistling:

I am now applying for a PhD. The competition is fierce, and there are many reasons why I should not be given the grant:


My grades are subpar (just barely above the minimum requirement for PhD consideration at my university, meaning lower than the grades of most (successful) PhD candidates)
I haven't taken two out of three of the advanced courses they strongly prefer for you to have taken
I have no teaching experience and I'd really rather not acquire any, but let's not write that in the application
My master's thesis was jointly written with another student (so an outsider cannot be sure of my contribution)
It has taken me almost 8 years in total to complete my bachelor's and master's degrees (not exactly evidence of academic zeal)
My designated supervisor already has more than his share of PhD students (attached to his research, that is - as I would also be).


Why am I even bothering to apply, you ask? Well...:


My thesis buddy and I produced real research worthy of publication in a decent journal (and the idea was mine, although I can't prove that)
My designated supervisor, who is the most prestigious and powerful researcher at the department...
... wants me on his research team and will write a letter of recommendation for the PhD committee...
... two out of three members of which happen to be PhD students of his. :yes:
I can write a killer application.


Will this be enough? Stay tuned; I'll find out in mid-December.

[Haight]

In the meantime, can you start a thread about economics and teach some of the members the basics?

They really do need your help.

[Economica]

In the meantime, can you start a thread about economics and teach some of the members the basics?

They really do need your help.

I was going to say we've had this conversation but I see I didn't reply to your last PM. :blush:

So, how do you propose to make it worth my while? :)

Off to the gym, BBL.

[Rajah]

Ugh. On a side note, I realized a terrible spelling error that I had on my resume today. Capitol Hill. . . not Capital Hill. ARGH!!! :doh: How many interviews has this cost me!?!For crying out loud, send it to people on here to review, woman!


FWIW, I imagine you interview very well and will get the job. :)

[Haight]

So, how do you propose to make it worth my while? :)


You'll be doing it as a service to a community that you clearly value. So open your heart and give a little.

If not . . . then I'm sure it will be entertaining in the very least.

[nottaprettygal]

So, how do you propose to make it worth my while? :)

Hey now! *taps foot*

Good luck with the Phd. At one point, Haight was telling me that I should go that route, but my statistics are similar to yours (average grades, not a lot of experience, etc.). However, if you get accepted, maybe I will reconsider that in the future (ya know, once I have some money).

For crying out loud, send it to people on here to review, woman!

FWIW, I imagine you interview very well and will get the job. :)

Well, you're WRONG! And I'm still pretty embarrassed about the spelling error. I wonder if that cost me any interviews, especially after I talked up my great writing skills. :doh:
----------

I still have not heard back about the position that I interviewed for last Wednesday. I was told that the decision would be made by last Friday. However, when I called HR she mentioned something about a death in the VPs family. I'm hoping that isn't code for "You didn't get the job, so stop contacting us."

Regardless, I'm starting to lose hope with that job. I will contact them again on Friday to see what's up. I wish they would just reject me so I can move on.

I'm continuing to apply for jobs that I'm not exactly interested in obtaining. However, I have decided to start temping, so hopefully I can meet with some employment agencies next week and get started. Money is pretty tight, so I need to do something now without settling for a long-term job that I don't like.

*sigh* Have I mentioned how much this blows?

[Fiver]

I once wanted a job so much that I would go sit in the reception area at lunch time. Everytime the person I interviewed with would walk out to go to lunch and back in, I would be sitting there. When he asked me why I was sitting there, I told him I wanted him to know how interested I was in that particular opportunity. After a few days of that he offered me the job.

[Synarch]

Interviews are like first dates. Be interested. Be on time. Look good. Stay loose. Flirt. If you have made it to the interview, you're qualified. Now charm their fucking pants off.

Every time: the less I care, the better I do. Every time I go into an interview really not giving a shit, they want to hire me. Try it.

[Economica]

Good luck with the Phd. At one point, Haight was telling me that I should go that route, but my statistics are similar to yours (average grades, not a lot of experience, etc.). However, if you get accepted, maybe I will reconsider that in the future (ya know, once I have some money).

Thanks! :)

However, my motivation for writing a killer application just got shot! :doh:

I just got back from a meeting with my professor and designated supervisor who told me that if I don't get the internal department grant, he's going to hire me with the external funds that he is currently seeking and very likely will get. Such a position would entail working full time on his research (there's a lot of practical work involved, so it wouldn't be all research, but about half research and half practical work), which means I wouldn't have to teach! This would be perfect for me! :yay:

... Of course, the prospect is uncertain; he could fail to get funds, or he could change his mind about using them to hire me. And even if he does get funded and does want to hire me, it probably wouldn't be until the late spring or summer of 2009 that I could start. In the meantime he said he would hire me part-time to work on stuff though, so I could wait and see and earn money part-time elsewhere.

So, I still have to apply for the internal grant and do my best (both because of the uncertainty of the other prospect and as a demonstration of competence) - but now I find myself hoping I don't get it. :rolleyes:

And I'm still pretty embarrassed about the spelling error. I wonder if that cost me any interviews, especially after I talked up my great writing skills. :doh:

Personally I don't think the spelling error was that bad since it wasn't of the "I didn't bother to proofread" variety. We all have our blind spots with respect to grammar and spelling and an employer would have to be pretty anal, IMO, to hold that one against you. That said, I truly empathize with your distress over it. :yes:

I still have not heard back about the position that I interviewed for last Wednesday. I was told that the decision would be made by last Friday. However, when I called HR she mentioned something about a death in the VPs family. I'm hoping that isn't code for "You didn't get the job, so stop contacting us."

I also truly empathize with your paranoia here :yes: but an employer would have to be pretty unprofessional, IMO, to make up an excuse like that to keep from having to reject an applicant. Based on what you've written about the interviews I'd say you still have a good shot at being hired. I know it sucks not have to closure, but try to focus on the positive feedback you got and to keep your spirits up! :) (I'm telling myself the same things these days...)

[nottaprettygal]

Alright. . . haven't updated this thing in awhile.

I didn't get the job that I wanted. I was totally let down and devestated for several days.

Knowing that I needed a job immediately, I contacted a few interesting temp agencies, and none of them got back to me. However, my dad works for a major corporation and he emailed one of the temp agencies that they use asking if they could help me out.

A couple days later, I had a job. I find it rather amusing. I can't get these temp agencies to even contact me, and because of one connection, an agency had me in Thursday morning and had a job for me Thursday afternoon. This was before I had taken any skills tests. I mean, I guess I knew it was a sure thing when the first question the interviewer asked after glancing at my resume for the first time was, "If <insert Alma Mater #1> and <insert Alma Mater #2> met in a football game, who would you root for?" Yay for networking!

Anyway, the position is as a degree auditor for a university, and I start on Monday. Certainly, it's not my dream job, but the salary is better than what I expected, so it will do for now. The key is that I need to keep applying for other jobs and not become complacent in this one.

But for now (you know, before I even start), I'm happy.

[Cimarron]

Anyone searching for jobs currently or recently? Is it getting difficult to find a job? We know what the news says, but what about your experiences? I'm going to graduate (probably) from college in the spring, so I'm just wondering how things look...

[Amargith]

*raises hand*

I have the same problem: I'm overqualified for most of the jobs I wanna do, and lack the experience for the rest of 'em. That and I like variety, so my CV has an interesting amount of different things on then, leaving most interviewers very puzzled.

[Geoff]

I'm interviewing tomorrow. After losing my job after 12 years in work. The market looks tight (I'm in a financial sector, after all, and the world isnt likely to want more than it has :D ) but fortunately my particular skills are in short supply. I'll know more once I get in front of people...

[ZiL]

I have an interview tomorrow too :cheese:. It's just for a part-time job though. But I really hope I get it - flexible hours doing paper work in a law firm. It's supposed to be fairly casual (I heard about this opportunity through a friend), so I'm hoping it won't be the nerve-wracking affair that my first job interview was (in a restaurant).

[karenk]

I once wanted a job so much that I would go sit in the reception area at lunch time.


Wow. What was the job?

[Economica]

I am now applying for a PhD. (...) Stay tuned; I'll find out in mid-December.

However, my motivation for writing a killer application just got shot! :doh:

I just got back from a meeting with my professor and designated supervisor who told me that if I don't get the internal department grant, he's going to hire me with the external funds that he is currently seeking and very likely will get. Such a position would entail working full time on his research (there's a lot of practical work involved, so it wouldn't be all research, but about half research and half practical work), which means I wouldn't have to teach! This would be perfect for me! :yay:

... Of course, the prospect is uncertain; he could fail to get funds, or he could change his mind about using them to hire me. And even if he does get funded and does want to hire me, it probably wouldn't be until the late spring or summer of 2009 that I could start. In the meantime he said he would hire me part-time to work on stuff though, so I could wait and see and earn money part-time elsewhere.

So, I still have to apply for the internal grant and do my best (both because of the uncertainty of the other prospect and as a demonstration of competence) - but now I find myself hoping I don't get it. :rolleyes:

Update: I did not get the internal stipend (although I contrary to expectation was deemed 'qualified' by the evaluation committee after one of the professors on the committee fortuitously joined my professor and I on our way to lunch one day with the greeting, "Hello [my professor's name], I have a question for you regarding a PhD applicant...", whereupon I got to spend lunch selling myself), but the news has prompted my professor to tell me that he has the money for half a PhD for me and to enlist the help of some foreign professors who I met and charmed six months ago in finding the money for the second half. They and I are optimistic that between them they'll be able to fund me eventually, and in the meantime my professor has just offered me more-than-full-time research assistant work as the manager (:shock:) of their next (large-scale) collaborative research project, scheduled to come to fruition in April.

All in all, it's time for me to exchange worrying about "job search" (The moral of this success story btw? Networking ftw! It's true :yes:) with worrying about "working": I stared into space for a long time the other day after seeing the NYT headline "Imagination, say hello to discipline". (Edit: I just realized the irony of that sentence. :doh: :laugh:) So be happy for me if you see me around even less from now on; it will mean I might actually be fulfilling my responsibilities (or that I'm busy plowing through the archives of PhD Comics (http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php), but at least that's closer to being work-related! ;)).

2917 (http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=878)

[FDG]

Congratulations, Economica! :)