How do you develop Ni?

[CzeCze]

Apparently my 'Ni' is very low according to that smarty-pants cognitive functions test floating around the web. I may have to disagree. Once I figure out what Ni is. :laugh:

Judging from, uh, "a few examples" I've seen -- Ni seems to be bat guano kookiness? Precognition? Telepathy?

Kewl.

So -- how do you develop that?

Seriously.

[miked277]

look at everything around you and question how it's viewed and why it even exists.

whenever i talk to an intj friend of mine i always come into the conversation from a typical Ti point of view that figuring out how all the variables relate to each other we can setup a framework to achieve the desired result. his responses are usually something like the framework doesn't even need to exist or comes at it from another angle stating that something i held to be a constant was not only not constant but should be changed or not used -- basically making all my "variable work" pointless. it's always interesting but i come away from these conversations feeling that the world i can imagine is tiny in comparison to what he can imagine. it's frustrating at times, but always interesting :)

i get the feeling if i (or others maybe) who aren't naturally strong in Ni tried to function as a Ni primary would they would go crazy ;)

so yeah, that's my experience/input.

edit: btw hey czecze, how's it going :)

[Mort Belfry]

How do you develop Ni?

The best way is to strip to just your overalls, cover yourself in pig excrement and hang off of a flying fox by just your ankles.

Try it, it really works.

[Lexlike]

look at everything around you and question how it's viewed and why it even exists.


i get the feeling if i (or others maybe) who aren't naturally strong in Ni tried to function as a Ni primary would they would go crazy ;)



haha, i think so too.
I still can´t understand how Ni really works... or is applied in reality, even though I score always pretty high on Ni

[sarah]

Apparently my 'Ni' is very low according to that smarty-pants cognitive functions test floating around the web. I may have to disagree. Once I figure out what Ni is. :laugh:

Judging from, uh, "a few examples" I've seen -- Ni seems to be bat guano kookiness? Precognition? Telepathy?

Kewl.

So -- how do you develop that?

Seriously.


Amazon.com: 8 Keys to Self Leadership: From Awareness to Action: Dario Nardi: Books (http://tinyurl.com/4sc33f)

This is one of the best books EVER on cognitive processes, including how to develop each of them. Seriously. :)

for a good explanation of each of the functions, see this link:

Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/)

Sarah
ISFP

[The_Liquid_Laser]

The nature of intuition is to ask "why". Intuition does not accept things at face value, but wants to know the significance or principal behind what is right in front of us. This is true of both Ne and Ni. This asking of "why" manifests itself differently depending on whether the intution is introverted or extraverted.

Extraverted intuition, like all extraverted functions, is oriented more toward breadth because it tries to be the function that operates during almost every situation you come across in the external world. This means that Ne asks "why" about basically everything. It goes about unconsciously generating some kind of explanation for everything it encounters and then quickly moves onto the next thing. The result is that, because it is oriented toward many things at once it is excellent about seeing patterns between things that might seem totally unrelated to anyone else. It also naturally generates a large quantity of ideas, since the constant "why" already trains the mind to keep spitting out ideas. Eventually the mind becomes trained to spit out ideas on it's own without even asking the "why" question. Additionally all extraverted functions are useful for communication, but Ne is the most appropriate when giving an explanation of why something works, and is also the best for communicating novel ideas on the spot.

Introverted intuition, like all introverted functions, is oriented toward depth. It is much more focused than its extraverted counterpart. While Ne will ask "why" about one thing, and then ask "why" about something else, Ni will focus on one thing at a time and will keep asking "why" about the same thing over and over again. This is what is meant when Ni is said to be able to view things from multiple perspectives. It sees multiple possible explanations for the same thing. Then it can choose one explanation or an amalgam of explanations. This also results in the NJ having the greatest depth in understanding whatever it focuses on. It can even see patterns and trends from the present and past and extrapolate them into the future. Unfortunately introverted functions are not oriented toward communication, and the thought process for Ni is unconscious so the person is only aware of the result but not how they got there. This means that NJ's seem to have a way of just "knowing things", but they will be unable to adequately explain how they know.

[Cimarron]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the discussion. Ni is supposedly my 8th function, so it does kind of feel like my appendix sometimes. I think I can also see how the Ne comes more naturally to me than the Ni.

[Bella]

How do you know if N is i or e? What is it for ISTJ, do all ISTJ have the same N?

[Cimarron]

According to the function charts, Ne is supposed to be ISTJs' 4th strongest function out of 8, and Ni is supposed to be ISTJs' weakest of all. It means our natural preference is very low for Ni, and comparatively low for Ne.

Well, not sure if this is exactly on target, but I invariably draw a blank when people tell me to make up something from thin air. That's what I get the feeling Ni is about, just coming up with an idea from out of the blue. If I'm off-base, someone may correct this post. :blush:

I have always asked "why" a lot, but not long ago I realized I could go into greater depth, and pursue that "why" for more than just a few steps. I would ask a chain of "why"s, trying to make a long chain of logic. That's switching from an Ne view to an Ni view, if I understand it. Though, that could be a T(thinking) function, and not N(intuitive); the differences here trip me up.

[Bella]

hmmm, thank you. I've sort of got the funtion descriptions down but still get lost about the details.

[Cimarron]

I don't know, I wouldn't depend on it. But does the middle paragraph in my last post resonate with you (being an ISTJ)? I'm trying to get a feel for what Ni is exactly, myself.

[Bella]

Well, I'm drawing a blank right now, have to think about it first. Is that the same thing, not being able to respond quickly to an answer? (or is that just stupidity! Haha!:blush:) Hmmm, I remember reading that S's have trouble with MBTI tests in that they're not always sure how to answer the questions. That's true - I often didn't feel like I knew how to answer because I didn't quite get what they were asking. That must most definitely have something to do with N, no? Getting the general idea of something and then responding to it.

Oh heck, I don't know......but it's good to talk to an ISTJ! There are so few around here!:hi:

[Lexlike]

How do you know if N is i or e? What is it for ISTJ, do all ISTJ have the same N?

N is the weakest function of the Istj.... No wonder, most ISTj are not the idea types, but more the linear thinkers, stickung to the rule, detail- oriented... That´s kind of the opposite of Intuition

[Bella]

So is N about ideas or is it about picking up on "vibes', attitudes or whatever that nobody else is picking up on. I thought the traditional definition of being intuitive is being able to just "tell". Does that make sense? Wher do ideas fit into it?

Bear with your neighborhood S........:blush:

[Antisocial one]

To tell you the truth I think you must be born with it or at least with the tendency.

[Bella]

BUT WHAT IS THE TENDENCY!! PLEASE EXPLAIN THE TENDENCY!!!!!!!!!!!:huh::blush:

[Lexlike]

Well, I'm drawing a blank right now, have to think about it first. Is that the same thing, not being able to respond quickly to an answer? (or is that just stupidity! Haha!:blush:) Hmmm, I remember reading that S's have trouble with MBTI tests in that they're not always sure how to answer the questions. That's true - I often didn't feel like I knew how to answer because I didn't quite get what they were asking. That must most definitely have something to do with N, no? Getting the general idea of something and then responding to it.

Oh heck, I don't know......but it's good to talk to an ISTJ! There are so few around here!:hi:

Well, it´s definitly not stupidy!!! Introverts tend to reflect first, than they answer, but thats another couple of tea.
To answer "abstract" question, you have to be more intuitive, not trying to fiind answer through your sensing process, but just through you N...

[Antisocial one]

BUT WHAT IS THE TENDENCY!! PLEASE EXPLAIN THE TENDENCY!!!!!!!!!!!:huh::blush:

Tendency to be detached from people and reality. Have an interests in advanced hard science. To be obsessed with solar system when you are 4 years old, and stuff like that.

I had tendency and I was born with it. So I have developed it very good.
Ni is from all eight functions the most ilusive function .

Personaly I think that you can't have developed Ni and be ISTJ. Sorry.

[edcoaching]

Actually I think of Ni as asking "What if" rather than Why which Nardi for sure attributes to Ti...

So as children (and as we become writers :) what if we could travel through time? What would it be like to be a basketball? What if Captain Kirk saves someone who was supposed to die and actually stalls the allies from stopping Hitler? What if Cinderella was ugly but nice, or her sisters pretty but still mean? What if I were in charge?

Today it's manifesting itself as what if i were writing Obama's speeches...

So all those creativity exercises can help with developing skills with it, just as I can work on Si by reality exercises. ISTJs can be really creative, especially in problem solving, once there is agreement on the facts and a clear definition of the problem. N's often start solving before they get what the problem is...natural place for synergy when we're working together :)

[The_Liquid_Laser]

So is N about ideas or is it about picking up on "vibes', attitudes or whatever that nobody else is picking up on. I thought the traditional definition of being intuitive is being able to just "tell". Does that make sense? Wher do ideas fit into it?

Bear with your neighborhood S........:blush:

The difference between S and N is concrete vs abstract. When a person is picking up on "vibes" or they can just "tell", that might be a result of either S or N. The "vibes" mean that the person is relying on an unconscious function. If the person were relying on thinking or feeling, then they would know why they reached their conclusion. When a person relies on S or N they only know the conclusion, but probably don't know how they got there, because the process is unconscious.

For example when a wide receiver runs out 50+ yards and catches a football, then he is using Se. How does he know where to be and when to get there in order to catch the ball? He just knows. He is just able to "tell". If Te were used to catch the football, then he'd have to know the speed and trajectory of the ball when released, and he'd have to know his running speed, etc.... He'd have to do a lot of measuring and calculating to get the same result. Se does all the measuring and calculating unconsciously, and then just gives the result, "Go here at this time to catch the ball". Although he doesn't even really think this thought, he just knows where to go without thinking about it.

Intuition is like this only it is about ideas rather than something concrete or tangible. Say Isaac Newton is sitting under a tree trying to figure out why the planets revolve around the sun. An apple falls and the idea comes to him suddenly, "the force moving the planets is the same force that dropped the apple to the ground". This flash of insight is intution (Ni specifically). He didn't sit down and methodically come to that conclusion like a person consciously using thinking. The calculations were done unconsciously and he only got the result. Later he went out and performed the necessary calculations on paper (i.e. thinking) to show everyone else the insight is true, but that isn't how he got the idea in the first place.

Now both the football player and Isaac Newton had a way of just "knowing" their result. The difference is that Isaac Newton's "knowing" had to do purely with an idea, while the football player's insight was more concrete in nature (a ball, a field, etc...). The concept of gravity is an abstraction of concrete things, while the football really is concrete.

Actually I think of Ni as asking "What if" rather than Why which Nardi for sure attributes to Ti...
Heh, I may have used the word "why" too much, but the idea is that intuition tries to get at the meaning behind something instead of simply seeing it as it appears. "Why", "What if", "How" etc... are all questions that intuition might ask. It simply does these unconsciously, and then we get the result without really knowing how it got there.

[proteanmix]

Moved to MBTI, Enneagram, and other personality matrices

[edcoaching]

Heh, I may have used the word "why" too much, but the idea is that intuition tries to get at the meaning behind something instead of simply seeing it as it appears. "Why", "What if", "How" etc... are all questions that intuition might ask. It simply does these unconsciously, and then we get the result without really knowing how it got there.

I'm right with you. Like, "How can my preferred politician respond to that in a way that will bring him/her up in the polls" and next thing I know my mind is writing the speech of all speeches...

[Bella]

Tendency to be detached from people and reality. Have an interests in advanced hard science. To be obsessed with solar system when you are 4 years old, and stuff like that.

I had tendency and I was born with it. So I have developed it very good.
Ni is from all eight functions the most ilusive function .

Personaly I think that you can't have developed Ni and be ISTJ. Sorry.

Darn it!;)

AND THANK YOU ALL FOR THE EDUCATION OF BELLA THE S.

[entropie]

What must not be forgot, is that N and S are ways of perceiving the world. So they are nothing else but your interface of your mind and the world.

An Extroverted Sensor, for example, is the most probable to see, hear, feel, taste and touch things as they really are. According to the definition that makes him receptive to the world and what is actual going on.

While an Extroverted Intuitor is less intrested into the physical appearances but more into the "unspoken words". For example, if you have a party of random people, all being nice to each other, an Intuitor is most probably the one, who recognizes that those people do hate each others and are just playing their little games there.

The significant thing is that being a Sensor does not make you loose this ability and vice versa. Having that "brilliant idea effect" like Newton had with the apple, is probably I would tell, per definition a thing more likely to happen to be noticed by a Sensor.

Whats even more important is that the preference for S means to have a preference for reality, while having a preference for N can make you a constant bugger, noone wants to listen to at a certain point, because he is seeing things that just do not exist.

So it is in the end not about the one function. It is the whole of the functions working together.

I myself for example, am very renonwed for saying things by accident that shed a new light on a situation, people havent thought about. From time to time, I can succeed with that, but I am really not aware of it, when it happens, except the others tell me or I notice it within them. That is why they call my type the innovator. On the other hand I am totally into a routined process of things. I do not like dull "mind work" but I really do have my routes, things, habits and rituals that I do at least once a day. That is not pretty innovative (:)) but a thing, more related to Si in combination with Ti, for example.

[Bella]

A lovely explanation. Thanks

[Antisocial one]

Go to thread : Why should someone have sex and read posts 182 and 186.

Their point is, be careful with wishes.

[Bella]

Er....er....goodness me....what to say.:shock:
My S-iness is wonderfully un-comlicated, isn't it!:D

But never mind that. You don't like sex?! My heart bleeds.....

[Antisocial one]

Something tells me you have changed your mind about having Ni.:devil:

[Bella]

yeah, the grass really never is greener on the other side......you bunch of crazies!!!!!

Kidding!:cheese:

[Antisocial one]

yeah, the grass really never is greener on the other side......you bunch of crazies!!!!!

Kidding!:cheese:

Right :dry:

[Evan]

I was going to write a long explanation, but TLL covered all the necessary ground :)

Read his posts.

[animenagai]

does anyone have a online test or something? i'm sick of guessing.

[Evan]

does anyone have a online test or something? i'm sick of guessing.

I'm confused. Why do you want a test?

Also, online tests are horrible.

[animenagai]

I'm confused. Why do you want a test?

Also, online tests are horrible.

i want self clarification. i want t know how strong me Ni, Fe is etc. the thing about MBTI is that is that it tells you the order of 4 processes typical of your type, but not the rest. so for me i have Ne, Fi, Te and Si in that order according to the theory. what about the other processes? don't tell me that i don't have any Ni, that's just ridiculous. where does my Ni stand in terms of the strength of my processes? can i formulate some norm of all the processes? i want stuff to theorize on :P

[Eric B]

That's the Cognitive Processes Test Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/surveyOriginal.html)

It will give you an idea of the relative strengths of all of the functions, regardless of which "role" (dom. aux. ter., etc) they are supposed to be in.

[Lexlike]

That's the Cognitive Processes Test Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/surveyOriginal.html)

It will give you an idea of the relative strengths of all of the functions, regardless of which "role" (dom. aux. ter., etc) they are supposed to be in.

After i made the test, Ni was the strongest function with 41, followed by Te with 40.2...

[animenagai]

That's the Cognitive Processes Test Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/surveyOriginal.html)

It will give you an idea of the relative strengths of all of the functions, regardless of which "role" (dom. aux. ter., etc) they are supposed to be in.

thanks bro. i did the test, here are the results:



Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)

extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************** (26.9)
average use

introverted Sensing (Si) *********** (11.7)
unused

extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ******************************************* (43.2)
excellent use

introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************* (33)
good use

extraverted Thinking (Te) *************** (15.6)
unused

introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************** (32.9)
good use

extraverted Feeling (Fe) ********************************* (33.1)
good use

introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************************** (44.2)
excellent use

Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INFP

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Feeling (Fi): Staying true to who you really are. Paying close attention to your personal identity, values and beliefs. Checking with your conscience. Choosing behavior congruent with what is important to you.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Intuiting (Ne): Exploring the emerging patterns. Wondering about patterns of interaction across various situations. Checking what hypotheses and meanings fit best. Trusting what emerges as you shift a situation’s dynamics.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENFP, or INTP

pretty accurate i guess. it's important to not take this too far though because it's not perfect. Ni questions are horrible. 'do you ever get premonitions?' well, do you ever get punched in the face? did you foresee that happening? it was worth the time though :D

interesting pattern showing here too if i am at all indicative of everyone else. my order goes Fi, Ne, Fe, Ni, Ti, Se, Te, Si

bit of a trend there wouldn't you think? i'm not sure if this order is EXACTLY correct, i would think that my Ne is higher than my Fi. however, it looks safe to say that my external and internal functions here of the same letter stick close to each other.

[cascademn]

Introverted intuition, like all introverted functions, is oriented toward depth. It is much more focused than its extraverted counterpart. While Ne will ask "why" about one thing, and then ask "why" about something else, Ni will focus on one thing at a time and will keep asking "why" about the same thing over and over again. This is what is meant when Ni is said to be able to view things from multiple perspectives. It sees multiple possible explanations for the same thing. Then it can choose one explanation or an amalgam of explanations. This also results in the NJ having the greatest depth in understanding whatever it focuses on. It can even see patterns and trends from the present and past and extrapolate them into the future. Unfortunately introverted functions are not oriented toward communication, and the thought process for Ni is unconscious so the person is only aware of the result but not how they got there. This means that NJ's seem to have a way of just "knowing things", but they will be unable to adequately explain how they know.

Your responses to mbti questions are always very knowledgeable, and right on, in my opinion (and I think you have a lot of real-world experience to support and build on the theories - not just a heap of stereotypes and stuff copy-and-pasted from other internet sources, much of which I tend to disagree with/question anyway). Basically I never have any issues with whatever you write. :-)

I think this is an excellent summary of Ni.

[TenebrousReflection]

Actually I think of Ni as asking "What if" rather than Why which Nardi for sure attributes to Ti...

So as children (and as we become writers :) what if we could travel through time? What would it be like to be a basketball? What if Captain Kirk saves someone who was supposed to die and actually stalls the allies from stopping Hitler? What if Cinderella was ugly but nice, or her sisters pretty but still mean? What if I were in charge?

Today it's manifesting itself as what if i were writing Obama's speeches...

So all those creativity exercises can help with developing skills with it, just as I can work on Si by reality exercises. ISTJs can be really creative, especially in problem solving, once there is agreement on the facts and a clear definition of the problem. N's often start solving before they get what the problem is...natural place for synergy when we're working together :)

Interesting, I may have been looking at things wrong for a long time then, because I thought those were the kind of things Ne does...

The idea of taking things that don't seem to go together and asking "what if I put these together? what results could that produce?". For example, I look at the way Joss Whedon thought of Firefly as mixing elements of westerns and sci fi to create something unique. I considered that to be a great example of how an Ne dominant mind would work, but reading your description, I could see where that could be seen as Ni.

I ask lots of questions like
"Why",
"What if...?",
"What motivated ____ to do ____?",
"Was that the intended meaning/result of their words/actions, or is there more to it than that?"
"What do they really mean by ___?",
"What are the implications of ___?",
"What is ____ subconsciously communicating? (which in itself is often a question I ask subconsciously/automatically)",
and "What possibilities does this open up?".

Do questions like those solidly represent either Ni or Ne, or are they a combination of both Ni and Ne? I think I use both, but I vacillate between thinking I prefer one to the other depending on my mood and day (the same applies to Ti/Te, but this is not the discussion for that).


The concept of gravity is an abstraction of concrete things, while the football really is concrete.


When I read that, it conjured an image of what football might be like if the ball were made of concrete. :) After that first mental image, it would go on to see the immediate problems and then see what else could be changed to make the basic idea workable, then it would go on to tangents like asking what if a shotput size super funball were used instead and so on (those images and tangents happening in what feels like a suspension of time while I think about them, and could be seconds or minutes in reality)... Ni, Ne or something else?

Even before reading this I was having occasional moments where I was wondering if I might be an abnormal INxJ instead of an INFP, and this gives me further reason to question at least which functions I'm using instinctively that might indicate natural preference and which ones I've more consciously developed to support my more dominant/preferred functions...

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Do questions like those solidly represent either Ni or Ne, or are they a combination of both Ni and Ne?

Those questions could be either Ne or Ni. Intuition in either form will ask lots of questions to get at the underlying ideas and principles. The main difference is between breadth and depth. Ne will ask questions about lots of things (and possibly start linking them together). Ni will tend to focus on one thing at a time, but ask lots of questions about that one thing.


When I read that, it conjured an image of what football might be like if the ball were made of concrete. :) After that first mental image, it would go on to see the immediate problems and then see what else could be changed to make the basic idea workable, then it would go on to tangents like asking what if a shotput size super funball were used instead and so on (those images and tangents happening in what feels like a suspension of time while I think about them, and could be seconds or minutes in reality)... Ni, Ne or something else?


This description sounds more like Ne to me, but it mostly has to do with the first sentence. You took a football and concrete and linked them together. :) Ne has this way of trying to make sense of everything at once, so it can take seemingly unrelated things and link them together. The rest of the paragraph sounds more like Ne, but it could be Ni too. The first sentence is what really jumped out at me.

[edcoaching]

You'd probably enjoy the discussions on these things that go on at type conferences in the bar at night...

There's a lot of dissent about how the extraverted and introverted forms of the preferences work. I'm in the camp that doesn't think you can divide Ne from Ni quite so neatly. In fact the difference may be more in how we process than in the what.

My Ni for example only functions well when I can think, reflect (yeah, well, my dominant function happens in the internal world...). Brainstorming sessions--I have to ignore what's going on and get my own thoughts going. Just about all of my colleagues prefer ENFP and I have to tell them, "Keep going--I'm thinking and I'll be with you in a minute." They're used to it. I do modeling based on internal vision and external stimuli, so I don't buy into the clear-cut distinctions. I can use my N alone in my office envisioning the best way to design a training workshop. I can use it in a classroom when things aren't going right (if I'm the observer, not the instructor, or if there's a pause so I can get my thoughts together) to come up with a totally new technique in the moment to fix things.

My ENFP colleagues are just the opposite. They want to talk things through to get their Intuition going. One, if she's stuck and can't meet with a colleague, heads to the Mall of America where all the action feeds her Intuition. Our orientation to the external world defines how we use the functions in a huge way, not just the nuanced differences between the E and I forms of the functions...

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Our orientation to the external world defines how we use the functions in a huge way, not just the nuanced differences between the E and I forms of the functions...

That's basically how I see it. Ne and Ni are both intuition. In a sense they both have the same raw source. The differences between Ne and Ni come from our E/I preferences.

[Evan]

Yup. Which is why I think of it as a spectrum of introversion to extroversion within a function as opposed to two separate but overlapping functions.

[htb]

When interpreting events I find that those with Ni, whether sensors or intuitors, pursue an explanation until they have reason to believe otherwise. Those with Ne will either remain unaware of a likely explanation or consider the possibility to be only one of many.

Ne: It could be this, or this, or this, or even this!

Ni: No, it's this and only this.

[edcoaching]

When interpreting events I find that those with Ni, whether sensors or intuitors, pursue an explanation until they have reason to believe otherwise. Those with Ne will either remain unaware of a likely explanation or consider the possibility to be only one of many.

Ne: It could be this, or this, or this, or even this!

Ni: No, it's this and only this.

What you might be experiencing is the fact that we Ni's don't speak up until we've pursued what we're thinking of to some sort of conclusion, so you don't hear how many other could be's we pondered before choosing one. I can spin in my socks forever if there's no pressure to choose...

[Haight]

What you might be experiencing is the fact that we Ni's don't speak up until we've pursued what we're thinking of to some sort of conclusion, so you don't hear how many other could be's we pondered before choosing one. I can spin in my socks forever if there's no pressure to choose...Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's what I say to myself every time I hear the Ni folks are absolutists argument. My thoughts are, "I don't say it until I know that I know, or when I'm very comfortable with the margin for error." Saying something that is wrong has been a fear of mine for as long as I can remember. Therefore, I think, think, think, think, and then maybe I'll say something . . . maybe.

[Uytuun]

I can spin in my socks forever if there's no pressure to choose...

Yes. But I will choose and not look back much when I have to. Extroverted judging process.

I always feel that for me the outside world (and by that I mean the drudgery of SJ society, harsh reality, not the poetic experience of a trip through the Sahara desert or going out dancing at night - Ni requires a subjetive approach, but is not by default cloistered) is fairly irrelevant. And malleable. Making choices that pertain to it are based around a pragmatic approach that attempts to keep the external world from making it harder on me to get immersed in what Ni spins out. This outside SJ world filled with practical concerns is only a secondary plane of existence.

[htb]

What you might be experiencing is the fact that we Ni's don't speak up until we've pursued what we're thinking of to some sort of conclusion, so you don't hear how many other could be's we pondered before choosing one. I can spin in my socks forever if there's no pressure to choose...Interesting. That's not at all my experience. Most of the calculation, I wager, is done in the subconscious, and explanations not drawn from experience or deduction pop into my head. From that point, unless I must know a thing for certain, the likely answer is assigned and I move on.

[TenebrousReflection]

Those questions could be either Ne or Ni. Intuition in either form will ask lots of questions to get at the underlying ideas and principles. The main difference is between breadth and depth. Ne will ask questions about lots of things (and possibly start linking them together). Ni will tend to focus on one thing at a time, but ask lots of questions about that one thing.

This description sounds more like Ne to me, but it mostly has to do with the first sentence. You took a football and concrete and linked them together. :) Ne has this way of trying to make sense of everything at once, so it can take seemingly unrelated things and link them together. The rest of the paragraph sounds more like Ne, but it could be Ni too. The first sentence is what really jumped out at me.

Thanks,

This would seem to point to Ne having preference since in that context, I think its what I use automatically, but I do think I use Ni in the way you described as well, but its much more conscious when I'm doing it and I think I tend to use it less and reserve its use for the things that have greater importance to me (Ne is always on, and Ni gets used more when I want to explore an idea or possibility in much greater depth (nearly instant vs spending minutes to hours reflectign on something specific)).

[chris1207]

Intuition in either form will ask lots of questions to get at the underlying ideas and principles. The main difference is between breadth and depth. Ne will ask questions about lots of things (and possibly start linking them together). Ni will tend to focus on one thing at a time, but ask lots of questions about that one thing.


I've been looking for an adequate explanation of Ni forever and feeling a little disappointed because I got stuck with it. I thought, "Man, it sure would be great to have Ne and be more open-minded and consider all of the possibilities! That would be the life!" :) Now I realize that Ni has it's merits as well.

This reminds me of a story. I have a friend from college that's an ENFP and we were hanging out one time and he was talking about how much he enjoyed having a space heater. This was in response to a comment I made about how cold his house was. Then I asked him how much does he keep the thing on and he said it was on all the time. Afterward, I introduced the possibility that the electricity used to power the space heater was quite possibly costing him more in the long run than actual heating and asked if he had ever looked into it. He didn't even want to consider the possibility.

That's not to say that Ne can't be deep, it just doesn't want to consider implications. Like Se it prefers to dwell in the present. Interesting stuff really.