INTJs - Do you suffer from a recurring sense of loneliness?

[INTJMom]

EDIT: Originally in NF Idyllic, so some posts respond to the original "INFJ" content, not "INTJ". -- Jen

INTJs - Do you suffer from a recurring sense of loneliness and emptiness?

I do, and I don't know how to fix it.

When I feel that way, I feel like it would be so great to have a quiet, private, deep
conversation with someone, but I can never think of anyone who I could talk to.
I have thought of journaling, but it leaves me feeling empty because I would like a response.
I'm not sure if I'm having feelings I haven't identified or dealt with, or what's the matter.
Frequently, I feel like I'm on the verge of tears all day long.
I only know that I hate going around feeling that way.

What do you do?

[Jennifer]

INFJs - Do you suffer from a recurring sense of loneliness and emptiness?
(I'm posting here because I have a high degree of INFJ even though I am mostly INTJ.)

I do, and I don't know how to fix it.

When I feel that way, I feel like it would be so great to have a quiet, private, deep conversation with someone, but I can never think of anyone who I could talk to. I have thought of journaling, but it leaves me feeling empty because I would like a response. I'm not sure if I'm having feelings I haven't identified or dealt with, or what's the matter. Frequently, I feel like I'm on the verge of tears all day long. I only know that I hate going around feeling that way.

What do you do?


I'm not technically INFJ, but by function strength I am. (Ti + Ni + Ne + Fe).

It might not even be MBTI, it could simply be certain traits that interact poorly with an environment in which one felt ignored, neglected, and/or alone and misunderstood.

I'll respond just because I felt this way Saturday night.

Friday night I felt good enough to play music and dance alone around my apartment

Saturday, I should have been even happier. I went out for dinner to a nice place with a large group of friends, then out to social gatherings with them. During dinner, despite being engaged in conversation, I felt very alone.

At the meeting, sitting with someone who I knew understood me, I felt alone.

And going to a club afterwards, being included socially (the people didn't know me WELL, but they immediately made room for me and we were talking and laughing the whole time), I still felt very alone. I finally excused myself and left before most of them. (I found out later they all went out on the dance floor and had a good time after I went. I was happy for them but knew it would not have improved anything.)

Some guy hit on me hard as I passed the bar on my way out (yes, I could have spent the night with someone who "wanted" me even just in a physical way); and I knew even if I accepted, I'd still have felt alone.

So I came home and journaled.
And still felt alone.

Even at other times, when when people correspond deeply with me, I still have felt alone.

Don't ask me. Whatever contact I crave, I can't get it when I'm in that mood, or my need is far greater than anything that a human being can give me. The oddness is that it hurts bad enough that you imagine you might be bleeding to death, yet you won't die. The loneliness endures on some level no matter who is there.

But sometimes I have felt good. (Like Friday night.) I don't know why. There are many possibilities. Some people look at the "HALT" acronym (HUNGRY-ANGRY-LONELY-TIRED) when they feel unsettled. All those things can meld into each other. So maybe resolving physical stress or getting more sleep or getting your blood sugar up helps with the lonelies.

i think part of it is also just unresolvable demands from the world to justify/fortify our existence. If we don't feel safe vocalizing all of our needs, or we feel like no one understands our needs, or we have had to deal with environments where we had to live ghosts and had no real voice or presence in the world, or we didn't feel loved for exactly who we were, well, the loneliness permeates. Many people do not question their existence or their identities so deeply; those who have been forced to might consistently feel lonely. I don't know, hon.

What I do now is try to lose myself in something, whether it is music or nature or whatever else. Or I stop thinking about my existence and try to engage someone else and be there for them. Something to immerse myself in life that occurs outside of who I am, and that detracts from the loneliness. Something that is not passive but more proactive.

If you're going to tie it to INFJ at all, it would probably trigger in part from the insubstantial nature of Ni coupled with the Fe expectations from others that can NEVER be met... while you feel duty-bound and driven to extend yourself to others via Fe. The drive is relentless. The expectations of how people SHOULD treat each other and connect is huge; and you are so prone to be set up for disappointment unless you have a realistic sense of how the world actually functions and aren't expecting people to meet the ideal standards. and yet the independence/autonomy there from INxx means you are separate from others and have to constantly try to meet your standards, even if no one else meets them... and that you do it independently, quietly, and alone.

[INTJMom]

I'm not technically INFJ, but by function strength I am. (Ti + Ni + Ne + Fe).

It might not even be MBTI, it could simply be certain traits that interact poorly with an environment in which one felt ignored, neglected, and/or alone and misunderstood.

I'll respond just because I felt this way Saturday night.
That's okay.
I was going to post in the NT section but my post had so much about feelings in it, I began to think it was the NF part of me, but now I wonder.

Friday night I felt good enough to play music and dance alone around my apartment

Saturday, I should have been even happier. I went out for dinner to a nice place with a large group of friends, then out to social gatherings with them. During dinner, despite being engaged in conversation, I felt very alone.

At the meeting, sitting with someone who I knew understood me, I felt alone.

And going to a club afterwards, being included socially (the people didn't know me WELL, but they immediately made room for me and we were talking and laughing the whole time), I still felt very alone.
...
So I came home and journaled.
And still felt alone.

Even at other times, when when people correspond deeply with me, I still have felt alone.Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.
I feel like you understand.

Don't ask me. Whatever contact I crave, I can't get it when I'm in that mood, or my need is far greater than anything that a human being can give me. The oddness is that it hurts bad enough that you imagine you might be bleeding to death, yet you won't die. The loneliness endures on some level no matter who is there.This morning I was asking God, why, if we're entirely dependent on Him for Love that He doesn't more frequently bestow it.
Then a little while ago, I received an email from a new gal in our church. She said she had been thinking of me and she included a prayer for me.
She said a couple of nice things about me that made me feel good, well because she valued my inner spirit, not my outsides.
And it was like God answering my need for Love.

But sometimes I have felt good. (Like Friday night.) I don't know why. There are many possibilities. Some people look at the "HALT" acronym (HUNGRY-ANGRY-LONELY-TIRED) when they feel unsettled. All those things can meld into each other. So maybe resolving physical stress or getting more sleep or getting your blood sugar up helps with the lonelies.Yes. I just heard of this recently. It does help to look at those things... if I can get to them. Usually they're hiding too far down.

i think part of it is also just unresolvable demands from the world to justify/fortify our existence. If we don't feel safe vocalizing all of our needs, or we feel like no one understands our needs, or we have had to deal with environments where we had to live ghosts and had no real voice or presence in the world, or we didn't feel loved for exactly who we were, well, the loneliness permeates. Many people do not question their existence or their identities so deeply; those who have been forced to might consistently feel lonely. I don't know, hon.:boohoo:
That turned on the waterworks.
Well, now we're getting somewhere.

What I do now is try to lose myself in something, whether it is music or nature or whatever else. Or I stop thinking about my existence and try to engage someone else and be there for them. Something to immerse myself in life that occurs outside of who I am, and that detracts from the loneliness. Something that is not passive but more proactive.Probably a great suggestion.
I should get on with my day,
so I can respect myself at the end of it.
That would go a long way.

If you're going to tie it to INFJ at all, it would probably trigger in part from the insubstantial nature of Ni coupled with the Fe expectations from others that can NEVER be met... while you feel duty-bound and driven to extend yourself to others via Fe. The drive is relentless. The expectations of how people SHOULD treat each other and connect is huge; and you are so prone to be set up for disappointment unless you have a realistic sense of how the world actually functions and aren't expecting people to meet the ideal standards. and yet the independence/autonomy there from INxx means you are separate from others and have to constantly try to meet your standards, even if no one else meets them... and that you do it independently, quietly, and alone.Exactly.

Thank you. :hug:

[Pseudonym_Alpha]

INFJs - Do you suffer from a recurring sense of loneliness and emptiness?
(I'm posting here because I have a high degree of INFJ even though I am mostly INTJ.)

I do, and I don't know how to fix it.

When I feel that way, I feel like it would be so great to have a quiet, private, deep
conversation with someone, but I can never think of anyone who I could talk to.
I have thought of journaling, but it leaves me feeling empty because I would like a response.
I'm not sure if I'm having feelings I haven't identified or dealt with, or what's the matter.
Frequently, I feel like I'm on the verge of tears all day long.
I only know that I hate going around feeling that way.

What do you do?


I find myself in a similar circumstance. It isn't easy, thats for sure :huh:

But, with help from my friends and family, I've seen that openness has its outages, its point if you will, where it is necessary to interactive(ie. it has a time and place).

I realised that feeling this way consistantly, and always craving that answer, will lead to disappointment, and to improve my quality of life, I decided to interactive with others on their own level, try to speak "their language" if you will.

Its definitely most enlightening, especially getting to know people on that level, they open up to you in ways you can't imagine, and it is exciting to hear all the new things and ways they are getting along in life.

So in answer to your question, I don't I have an answer per se, more so a coniditional statement, which is, I don't think you will ever find that answer you're hoping for 100% of the time, I realise it may sound very flat and hard, but its what I believe.

Hope that helped :)

[Jennifer]

This morning I was asking God, why, if we're entirely dependent on Him for Love that He doesn't more frequently bestow it. Then a little while ago, I received an email from a new gal in our church. She said she had been thinking of me and she included a prayer for me. She said a couple of nice things about me that made me feel good, well because she valued my inner spirit, not my outsides. And it was like God answering my need for Love.

A friend -- someone I only really got to know in the last two months or so -- left a message for me on my phone the other week, on a day I was driving home late at night having just left my house, and I was feeling very alone and abandoned.

She called about business, mostly. But near the end, completely out of the blue, she just gently said, "... and never forget that I love you."

Things like that are why cell phones are dangerous when you're driving. Sigh.

:boohoo:
That turned on the waterworks.
Well, now we're getting somewhere.

As a writer, my job here is done. ;)

Exactly.
Thank you. :hug:

:hug:

The more I think about it, though, getting out of a mindset where I am alone and isolated (like Ariel trapped in the cloven pine in The Tempest) and instead focused on the external world and engaging it is probably something I need to do, to avoid the endless introspection and clutching at self-identity that ends up putting too much separation between myself and others in my mind.

Trying to discover who we are, do we automatically make the gulf wider and draw lines that don't actually exist -- or insist on the very demarcations that bring us such pain? Lines that are not as rigid as others might have, because they feel comfortable and don't need to make the boundaries so harsh in order to preserve their sense of identity?

[runvardh]

Eh, I've felt this way often, but it typically is because of a disconnect in the communication between myself and the people around me. All I need is one and things will be fine, but all the pieces need to be there. Then again, I'm lonely relationship wise as well so that could have something to do with it for me.

[INTJMom]

A friend -- someone I only really got to know in the last two months or so -- left a message for me on my phone the other week, on a day I was driving home late at night having just left my house, and I was feeling very alone and abandoned.

She called about business, mostly. But near the end, completely out of the blue, she just gently said, "... and never forget that I love you."

Things like that are why cell phones are dangerous when you're driving. Sigh.
We never know how much what we say will impact someone else.
That's wonderful.
As a writer, my job here is done. ;)
tee-hee
You reminded me, as a singer, I love it when a song I sing makes people cry. :blush:
:hug:

The more I think about it, though, getting out of a mindset where I am alone and isolated (like Ariel trapped in the cloven pine in The Tempest) and instead focused on the external world and engaging it is probably something I need to do, to avoid the endless introspection and clutching at self-identity that ends up putting too much separation between myself and others in my mind. (see edit above)
I think you're right.
Time to go make cupcakes.

[INTJMom]

...
I realised that feeling this way consistantly, and always craving that answer, will lead to disappointment, and to improve my quality of life, I decided to interactive with others on their own level, try to speak "their language" if you will.

Its definitely most enlightening, especially getting to know people on that level, they open up to you in ways you can't imagine, and it is exciting to hear all the new things and ways they are getting along in life.
...
I guess I'm not enough of an "F" to benefit from this behavior,
but thank you for responding. :)


Maybe this is an NT question after all?

[Jennifer]

I think you're right.
Time to go make cupcakes.

Yum!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/146467718_126cf4fbce.jpg

[evan]

Yeah, I'm basically lonely most of the time, even around my friends. The trick is to find someone else who "gets it". Unfortunately, I've come across very few of those people in my life...

[edcoaching]

One thing I've learned is that I think I should be able to solve everything myself and actually isolate myself when I most need help. I've heard that from lots of INJ's. We even go to books rather than people to find answers:blush:

I've made myself regularly meet with a set of 3 dear friends--we do pray and study together. I make myself share very real concerns. Our kids are the same age and we find we're in similar dilemmas. They often have great advice and frequently give me a needed kick in the pants on many fronts.

[INTJMom]

One thing I've learned is that I think I should be able to solve everything myself and actually isolate myself when I most need help. I've heard that from lots of INJ's. We even go to books rather than people to find answers:blush:

I've made myself regularly meet with a set of 3 dear friends--we do pray and study together. I make myself share very real concerns. Our kids are the same age and we find we're in similar dilemmas. They often have great advice and frequently give me a needed kick in the pants on many fronts.
I understand what you're saying, and I know I do that, but I can't say I think it's wrong.
I mean, isolating myself isn't good, I know that.
Not that I isolate myself.
It's that I LIVE an isolated existence pretty much,
except for my responsibilities of managing my household,
and a women's Bible study I belong to.

But I hate cultivating relationships.
It's too time consuming and mostly purposeless.
Cause I don't want to go shopping,
I don't want to sit around and gossip over coffee
and I don't want to spend money frivolously.
And then when I get lonely,
I realize I have no one I have been cultivating relationships.

The women in my Bible study are mostly elderly.
We are supposed to get a new gal this year who I know.
She's an ENTP.
And now that I think of it, I could call her.
We've talked before and she's great.

But as far as consulting books goes, I once knew an ESTP who would ask everyone for advice, and then do whatever she decided was best. I have a tendency to want to consult with people who are EXPERTS in their field. Since I don't know people like that, it's understandable that I would seek out their advice in a book or online.

Oh, and I never need a swift kick in the behind. ;)

[Haphazard]

Sometimes.

Sometimes I don't even want a conversation. Sometimes I just want somebody to be there...

They are short bursts, though. Usually not enough to actually work to, like, call for remedying it.

[Uberfuhrer]

Sometimes I don't even want a conversation. Sometimes I just want somebody to be there...

This site (http://www.interment.net/US/index.htm) may be able to help you.

To filter out the recurring sense of loneliness, there is no better medicine than PC gaming (and MMORPGs are supposed to be the best, although I haven't tried them myself). I find that it works even better than console gaming. I'm not sure what makes PC games more involved, but they makes the sense of loneliness go away for a while. Hell, they also make you forget your meals...so they are excellent if you are trying to lose weight...

[Haphazard]

This site (http://www.interment.net/US/index.htm) may be able to help you.

:alttongue: Perhaps.

I'd prefer someone who wasn't going to decompose any time soon, though.

[INTJMom]

This site (http://www.interment.net/US/index.htm) may be able to help you.

To filter out the recurring sense of loneliness, there is no better medicine than PC gaming (and MMORPGs are supposed to be the best, although I haven't tried them myself). I find that it works even better than console gaming. I'm not sure what makes PC games more involved, but they makes the sense of loneliness go away for a while. Hell, they also make you forget your meals...so they are excellent if you are trying to lose weight...
Sometimes I play online backgammon, but that's seems like just more escaping from the feelings than helping them.

[FallsPioneer]

Online stuff doesn't really cut it for me. Back in middle school I was too shy to talk to people and ask them to do things, so a lot of the time I played PC games. That didn't really cut it though, because it's just not a good substitute for heart to heart conversation and fun outside of the house.

Most of the time I come here when I'm feeling thoughtful.

I struggled with loneliness, but the first part that I dealt with in overcoming that was really understanding what kind of interaction I wanted and what I wanted to get out of socializing. My loneliest times were the ones when I wondered why it seemed everyone else was having more fun than I was. I put myself in a sort of INTJ mental trap - "why is it that the only way to have fun is to do stuff that sucks?" I wasn't into most of the stuff that others were doing in middle school. I remember going to this one dance where there were all sorts of "dirty dancing" going on - like grinding. I got into it because I was insecure and I thought it couldn't hurt to try. I'll say that the dance ended well, but I knew I actually didn't like it.

So for a while I stayed unhappy doing things that I hated or brooding by myself until I decided to figure out what I wanted so I could make myself happy. I let other people decide for me how I was supposed to socialize and what I was supposed to do, and I resented that, and that resentment made me feel like an outcast, so I remained distant from a lot of people, even people who were genuinely interested in me.

It helps to have people who understand and accept your needs, quirks, and faults.

After I knew what I wanted, things became A LOT easier. I also had to develop empathy but that's another thing.

[Uberfuhrer]

Sometimes I play online backgammon, but that's seems like just more escaping from the feelings than helping them.

But there isn't really a way to help them in the way you're describing.

I understand alcohol is pretty good at alleviating this recurring tension, as well.

I find I become depressed when I reflect, so I have no choice but to concentrate on something external, but something I have relative control over -- like a computer game.

[INTJMom]

Online stuff doesn't really cut it for me. Back in middle school I was too shy to talk to people and ask them to do things, so a lot of the time I played PC games. That didn't really cut it though, because it's just not a good substitute for heart to heart conversation and fun outside of the house.

Most of the time I come here when I'm feeling thoughtful.

I struggled with loneliness, but the first part that I dealt with in overcoming that was really understanding what kind of interaction I wanted and what I wanted to get out of socializing. My loneliest times were the ones when I wondered why it seemed everyone else was having more fun than I was. I put myself in a sort of INTJ mental trap - "why is it that the only way to have fun is to do stuff that sucks?" I wasn't into most of the stuff that others were doing in middle school. I remember going to this one dance where there were all sorts of "dirty dancing" going on - like grinding. I got into it because I was insecure and I thought it couldn't hurt to try. I'll say that the dance ended well, but I knew I actually didn't like it.

So for a while I stayed unhappy doing things that I hated or brooding by myself until I decided to figure out what I wanted so I could make myself happy. I let other people decide for me how I was supposed to socialize and what I was supposed to do, and I resented that, and that resentment made me feel like an outcast, so I remained distant from a lot of people, even people who were genuinely interested in me.

It helps to have people who understand and accept your needs, quirks, and faults.

After I knew what I wanted, things became A LOT easier. I also had to develop empathy but that's another thing.
I could very much relate to what you wrote.

I think it's that heart-to-heart conversation you referred to that I am craving when I feel lonely and empty. That's what I really want.

[INTJMom]

But there isn't really a way to help them in the way you're describing.

I understand alcohol is pretty good at alleviating this recurring tension, as well.

I find I become depressed when I reflect, so I have no choice but to concentrate on something external, but something I have relative control over -- like a computer game.
Ube, I was pretty much asking for healthy ways of dealing with the feelings! LOL!
I can think of 20 un-healthy ways of doing it! :smile:

[Uberfuhrer]

Ube, I was pretty much asking for healthy ways of dealing with the feelings! LOL!

Take a Vitamin B-Complex supplement. That's been known to help with the moods associated with loneliness.

[INTJMom]

Take a Vitamin B-Complex supplement. That's been known to help with the moods associated with loneliness.
Thank you, Luv.
I will try that. :)

[Alpha Prime]

EDIT: Originally in NF Idyllic, so some posts respond to the original "INFJ" content, not "INTJ". -- Jen

INTJs - Do you suffer from a recurring sense of loneliness and emptiness?

I do, and I don't know how to fix it.

When I feel that way, I feel like it would be so great to have a quiet, private, deep
conversation with someone, but I can never think of anyone who I could talk to.
I have thought of journaling, but it leaves me feeling empty because I would like a response.
I'm not sure if I'm having feelings I haven't identified or dealt with, or what's the matter.
Frequently, I feel like I'm on the verge of tears all day long.
I only know that I hate going around feeling that way.

What do you do?


I do not claim to be "intj", but I can definitely relate (except for the crying, and frequency part). I always find strength from within, from constructive thoughts. Change always begins there.

[Not_Me]

I have never felt lonely, but when I reflect, I realize that I have no one with whom I can interact with on a deep level.

I will need to start sifting through more people.

[Maabus1999]

As an INTJ who lives off the independent streak, once in awhile I have to feel the opposite for balance (I'm human) and it does hit me hard for a day or two. I just go out and be extroverted to balance it. However, on a mental companionship level, I've been lonely quiet a while and it does bug me at times. Having someone who will listen and care about your ideas, and share her own...yeah be nice but not the best luck in the direct area I live.

[bluebell]

Yeah, I'm basically lonely most of the time, even around my friends. The trick is to find someone else who "gets it". Unfortunately, I've come across very few of those people in my life...

Apart from my partner, this describes me pretty accurately. There are a few people I've met online who I've clicked with. In some ways, that's made RL a bit lonelier.

One thing I've learned is that I think I should be able to solve everything myself and actually isolate myself when I most need help. I've heard that from lots of INJ's. We even go to books rather than people to find answers:blush:


I do that. All the time. I have this irrational belief from the past that I should be able to deal with everything by myself and that I don't need help. The more stressed I am, the more I do this. :doh: (I'm most probably INTP, not INTJ, but this habit of mine is more to do with my past than my type IMO)

[Trinity]

There are a few people I've met online who I've clicked with. In some ways, that's made RL a bit lonelier.

That rings true for me. I feel loneliness when I feel disconnected from people which is where clicking with people online can make it worse. Usually when it hits it's feels completely irrational, it just is, usually goes pretty quickly for me though.

[INTJMom]

As an INTJ who lives off the independent streak, once in awhile I have to feel the opposite for balance (I'm human) and it does hit me hard for a day or two. I just go out and be extroverted to balance it. However, on a mental companionship level, I've been lonely quiet a while and it does bug me at times. Having someone who will listen and care about your ideas, and share her own...yeah be nice but not the best luck in the direct area I live.
Right.
I know how you feel.

I'm not feeling so bad as I was a couple of days ago.
My hormones were pushing me around, too.

[edcoaching]

[COLOR=Blue]
The women in my Bible study are mostly elderly.
We are supposed to get a new gal this year who I know.
She's an ENTP.
And now that I think of it, I could call her.
We've talked before and she's great.


Yeah...we formed our own group. Started with one close friend (ESFJ and believe me, she started our friendship--spotted me on the bus when we were both about 7 months pregnant). Then we each invited one more person we thought would be good. Well actually, my first invite was to an INTJ who couldn't fit it in. I couldn't think of anyone else and we went with just 3 of us until the ESFJ got a new neighbor. So maybe finding a compatible Fe friend is the ticket. She "drags" me all over.:cheese:

[Uytuun]

My hormones were pushing me around, too.


Those are a bitch. :hug:

As an INTJ who lives off the independent streak, once in awhile I have to feel the opposite for balance (I'm human) and it does hit me hard for a day or two. I just go out and be extroverted to balance it. However, on a mental companionship level, I've been lonely quiet a while and it does bug me at times.

Yes.

I just stick it out when it happens, knowing it will go away in a day or so.

I've come to the point where I don't expect people to really connect with me, but I wonder whether that isn't just an easy way to evade true communication and opening up and all that fun stuff. Internet does fill part of the "void".

[DigitalMethod]

EDIT: Originally in NF Idyllic, so some posts respond to the original "INFJ" content, not "INTJ". -- Jen

INTJs - Do you suffer from a recurring sense of loneliness and emptiness?

I do, and I don't know how to fix it.

When I feel that way, I feel like it would be so great to have a quiet, private, deep
conversation with someone, but I can never think of anyone who I could talk to.
I have thought of journaling, but it leaves me feeling empty because I would like a response.
I'm not sure if I'm having feelings I haven't identified or dealt with, or what's the matter.
Frequently, I feel like I'm on the verge of tears all day long.
I only know that I hate going around feeling that way.

What do you do?


Yes, I get this all the time.

What I do? I hope for the future to have someone to whom I can do the stuff you've talked about with.

Of course I'm still rather young, so, I guess I might deal with it differently in 10 years if I don't have that type of person in my life.

[Tallulah]

I do feel a deep sense of loneliness from time to time. Most of the time, I'm fine, and I just live in my head, and I have friends and family that care about me. But every once in a while, I feel deeply alone, like no one really knows what it's like to be me, and I can't articulate it to others. Prayer, for me, helps in that situation.

I also think, like Jennifer mentioned, that in an effort to understand myself, I make myself so unique and special in my own mind that I alienate myself from others.

[VanillaCat]

Hmm, well, INTJs seem say they feel really accepted and stuff around me and that I make them feel like no one else has.

So, you could talk to me ?

[INTJMom]

I do feel a deep sense of loneliness from time to time. Most of the time, I'm fine, and I just live in my head, and I have friends and family that care about me. But every once in a while, I feel deeply alone, like no one really knows what it's like to be me, and I can't articulate it to others. Prayer, for me, helps in that situation.

I also think, like Jennifer mentioned, that in an effort to understand myself, I make myself so unique and special in my own mind that I alienate myself from others.
I can relate to that.

I think I met an INTJ today.

He's down on his luck, and all I did was listen to him and validate his feelings. He thanked me profusely for being such a big help. :huh: See. That's all an INTJ really needs.

[INTJMom]

Hmm, well, INTJs seem say they feel really accepted and stuff around me and that I make them feel like no one else has.

So, you could talk to me ?
That's really cool.
I like ENFPs. Lots of fun.

I think I'd feel kind of awkward telling you the secrets of my soul before I even know you.
I guess the "someone to talk to" needs to be someone who knows me.

[Lymitra]

EDIT: Originally in NF Idyllic, so some posts respond to the original "INFJ" content, not "INTJ". -- Jen

INTJs - Do you suffer from a recurring sense of loneliness and emptiness?

I do, and I don't know how to fix it.

When I feel that way, I feel like it would be so great to have a quiet, private, deep
conversation with someone, but I can never think of anyone who I could talk to.
I have thought of journaling, but it leaves me feeling empty because I would like a response.
I'm not sure if I'm having feelings I haven't identified or dealt with, or what's the matter.
Frequently, I feel like I'm on the verge of tears all day long.
I only know that I hate going around feeling that way.

What do you do?


As much as your post resonated with me, I doubt it is a specifically INTJ phenomenon. Feeling lonely is more like a human thing. It tells you that you are in touch with your emotions and that there is a divide between your inner self and outer environment. Sadly, I don't think it can be remedied unless one can fully integrate oneself into the outer world, where the inner and outer selves become one. It's hard to explain.

I feel the least lonely when I can be myself around other people. It's similar to that sensation of being so alive when I've surpassed my personal boundaries and fears and am just taking wild chances without knowing how they will turn out. When I feel completely true to who I am, even small talk loses its usual emptiness. I found out, surprisingly, that I actually really like people and enjoy getting to know them, the fact that I felt so alone in the midst of them was because I wouldn't allow myself to simply be me. I was trying to "fit a square into a circle," living by others' standards and trying to communicate their way. Never worked out.

As for finding someone to have an in depth conversation with, I don't think I've ever found such a person. How can I expect the other person to know what I'm interested in? There is no way they can know or figure out what engages me intellectually and emotionally. I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I find my answer to emptiness in talking to strangers and letting people surprise me.

[entropie]

I know my posts do not really contribute to ANY situation :D.

But I just wanted you INTJ and INFJ's to now that you have got at least one fan :)

Mind of the Wonderful

[01011010]

Sometimes

[INTJMom]

I know my posts do not really contribute to ANY situation :D.

But I just wanted you INTJ and INFJ's to now that you have got at least one fan :)

Mind of the Wonderful
That was beautiful.
:boohoo:
Thank you.



Darn hormones. :blush:

[INTJMom]

Sometimes
:smile: Answered like a true INTJ.

[INTJMom]

As much as your post resonated with me, I doubt it is a specifically INTJ phenomenon. Feeling lonely is more like a human thing. It tells you that you are in touch with your emotions and that there is a divide between your inner self and outer environment. Sadly, I don't think it can be remedied unless one can fully integrate oneself into the outer world, where the inner and outer selves become one. It's hard to explain.

I feel the least lonely when I can be myself around other people. It's similar to that sensation of being so alive when I've surpassed my personal boundaries and fears and am just taking wild chances without knowing how they will turn out. When I feel completely true to who I am, even small talk loses its usual emptiness. I found out, surprisingly, that I actually really like people and enjoy getting to know them, the fact that I felt so alone in the midst of them was because I wouldn't allow myself to simply be me. I was trying to "fit a square into a circle," living by others' standards and trying to communicate their way. Never worked out.

As for finding someone to have an in depth conversation with, I don't think I've ever found such a person. How can I expect the other person to know what I'm interested in? There is no way they can know or figure out what engages me intellectually and emotionally. I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I find my answer to emptiness in talking to strangers and letting people surprise me.

I'm beginning to think it's an NT thing.

I used to have a best friend who was my soul mate.
Her friendship to me was indescribable.
She was an ISFJ, but unfortunately an unhealthy one, and we parted ways after 3 years.

"letting people surprise me" is something I am only now learning to do.

[INTJMom]

I was studying enneagram types the other day and the fours struggle with this.
That probably explains why I have a problem with it.

[BlackOp]

Are we any less alone than those whose who appear unaffected?...or does the ability to conceptualize social rituals as they happen "hamstring" us? Its the price of pragmatism....maybe we are looking too hard for answers in the wrong places. Is love idealistic and many times an act of desperation? Is the ability to admit and suffer this reality what makes us so strong? Most types dont think this way...or block it out.

[bluemonday]

Clearly, I'm not an INTJ, but I don't want to start a new thread when this one will do.

Can you explain what you mean by loneliness?

Some people are talking about emptiness, being alone, being different, not being understood, is that all it is, or is there more?

I can't decide if I've never been lonely, or always have.

It's really the same thing isn't it? We can only understand what it means to be one way if we at some point haven't been? If we've always lived in the dark, the concept of dark would have no meaning. Things only take on meaning when they are thrown into relief against something else.

I see being alone and being different in a positive light. Even not being understood has its advantages ("I live in fear of not being misunderstood" Oscar Wilde). Emptiness is not good, but I don't see that as having much to do with other people. Other people can't fill you up in anything other than superficial ways.

I'm very familiar with a craving for being alone, but I can't say I ever crave being with others. Occasionally, I think, I'm bored, perhaps I need to get out and meet people. But when I do, I am universally disappointed by the experience, which suggests that what I was feeling was not loneliness, merely boredom.

Am I really weird or completely out-of-touch with my own feelings?

Or is loneliness really just a label applied to an existential discontent which we want someone else to fix for us?

[bluemonday]

Nobody answered me! pfffnaw!

"Mother Hubbard was old, alone and a widow - a friendless, solitary widow.
Yet - did she despair? Did she sit down and weep, or wring her hands? No!
She went to the cupboard." - Lord Desart

[pippi]

I can't decide if I've never been lonely, or always have.

Am I really weird or completely out-of-touch with my own feelings?

Or is loneliness really just a label applied to an existential discontent which we want someone else to fix for us?

I was waiting for an answer too, you described me as well. I may feel low sometimes or melancholy, but I've never really felt the overpowering 'loneliness' described in this thread.

I think that the loneliness isn't about basic interaction with people, but instead is a craving for a deep intimate connection with another person. So if you don't crave that kind of bond you won't ever feel the loneliness, or if you can't create that kind of bond with someone on a deep level you will always feel lonely and not know why. This is why people sometimes feel lonely in a sea of people, it isn't people you crave but a deep connection. Loneliness and being alone are not the same at all.

In my case, because I have those kind of bonds, I just don't feel lonely. Even though I am alone most of the time, I still feel connected with the people in my life. I don't even have to see them for a while. The connection 'fills me up' and I never feel lonely even though I spend a lot of time alone.

[INTJMom]

Clearly, I'm not an INTJ, but I don't want to start a new thread when this one will do.

Can you explain what you mean by loneliness?

Some people are talking about emptiness, being alone, being different, not being understood, is that all it is, or is there more?

I can't decide if I've never been lonely, or always have.

It's really the same thing isn't it? We can only understand what it means to be one way if we at some point haven't been? If we've always lived in the dark, the concept of dark would have no meaning. Things only take on meaning when they are thrown into relief against something else.

I see being alone and being different in a positive light. Even not being understood has its advantages ("I live in fear of not being misunderstood" Oscar Wilde). Emptiness is not good, but I don't see that as having much to do with other people. Other people can't fill you up in anything other than superficial ways.

I'm very familiar with a craving for being alone, but I can't say I ever crave being with others. Occasionally, I think, I'm bored, perhaps I need to get out and meet people. But when I do, I am universally disappointed by the experience, which suggests that what I was feeling was not loneliness, merely boredom.

Am I really weird or completely out-of-touch with my own feelings?

Or is loneliness really just a label applied to an existential discontent which we want someone else to fix for us?
I'll answer you, Luv.
I wish I was better at explaining my feelings.

I guess the loneliness and emptiness I feel is the opposite of having someone to share my innermost thoughts and feelings with, someone who understands what I'm saying and perhaps even shares similar thoughts and feelings, or perhaps, like Jennifer always does so beautifully, at least can explain myself to me.

I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.

It still feels inadequate. It's a desire for intimacy, I think.

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

I'll answer you, Luv.
I wish I was better at explaining my feelings.

I guess the loneliness and emptiness I feel is the opposite of having someone to share my innermost thoughts and feelings with, someone who understands what I'm saying and perhaps even shares similar thoughts and feelings, or perhaps, like Jennifer always does so beautifully, at least can explain myself to me.

I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.

It still feels inadequate. It's a desire for intimacy, I think.

This might be a 4 thing as well, since I'm also INTJ/4>5. (as I recently discovered)

There are only a few people that I know who can tell how I'm feeling without me saying anything. My sister, one of my friends I've known since first grade... maybe a co-worker friend.

I really connect to this sentiment:


I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.

I feel like I've been without this for a very long time now and I can tell when it starts to take a toll on me. Physically, mentally, emotionally I feel simply... dissatisfied. Not unhappy or depressed really, just a kind of restless need for something I can't seem to find.

[INTJMom]

It could be a four thing.

[bluemonday]

I'll answer you, Luv.
I wish I was better at explaining my feelings.

I guess the loneliness and emptiness I feel is the opposite of having someone to share my innermost thoughts and feelings with, someone who understands what I'm saying and perhaps even shares similar thoughts and feelings, or perhaps, like Jennifer always does so beautifully, at least can explain myself to me.

I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.

It still feels inadequate. It's a desire for intimacy, I think.

Thanks for that. I guess I just don't know how that feels.

I wonder if this is an Fi/Fe thing or unrelated to type?

[Uytuun]

Hmm, there's loneliness and there's isolation. I'm don't easily feel lonely per so, but emotional isolation can wreak havoc. Deeply alone yet not lonely. It doesn't make you cry or feel sad as much as it eats away at you.

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

For me, lonely = disconnected from others, not necessarily alone in a room. I can be completely content with my own company and not be lonely, and I can be in a crowded room and feel completely lonely.

In fact... I'd dare say that I feel MORE 'lonely' around other people because I see all of these other souls that I think I should have more in common with, feel a bond with, and when it isn't there I ache.

[runvardh]

For me, lonely = disconnected from others, not necessarily alone in a room. I can be completely content with my own company and not be lonely, and I can be in a crowded room and feel completely lonely.

In fact... I'd dare say that I feel MORE 'lonely' around other people because I see all of these other souls that I think I should have more in common with, feel a bond with, and when it isn't there I ache.

I have this issue, though I think I would do better with it if I actually had a place where I do have more connections. Eventually, I guess.

[Eryndil]

I wouldn't say I feel lonely but I can get depressed if I don't have any contact with like minded people. It's not so much a desire for company as a need to connect on an intellectual level.

[Metamorphosis]

I feel lucky to always have people to talk to, but I could see it being a problem if I didn't. This post reminded me of the lyrics from this song, though:

so many little things followed me
so many little things that bothered me
but I found my answer
from all the chaos that followed me
I have found my answer
I've told you before don't follow me
because I am not your answer

I am not alone, I am not afraid, I am not unhappy
these are the words I say to myself everyday
I am not alone, I am not afraid, I am not unhappy
tell me what ritual I should have today
but I'm not alone
I've resolved so many things and set myself free

I am not alone, I am not afraid, I am not unhappy
the words I say to myself every day
I am not alone, I am not afraid, I am not unhappy
such a stupid ritual to have to say to myself everyday
I'm not alone but I found my answer and set myself free
I'm not unhappy

[INTJMom]

You didn't give credit to the songwriter.
Who was it?

[Metamorphosis]

VNV Nation - Fearless

[Floating]

Yes, I do experience intense loneliness sometimes...but not too often and I just tell myself it will pass, and eventually it does.

[Edgar]

As an INTJ, I feel lonely when my internet connection is down.