9/11

[Hmm]

Take some time today to remember what happened.

[Beat]

Roger that.

[MetalWounds]

I remember every day that I wake up in the middle east.

[Ivy]

I watched the MSNBC realtime coverage for awhile this morning. I had to switch it off because I could feel myself getting anxious remembering that day. It was my daughter's second birthday and I tried to play with her on the floor in such a way that she would always face away from the television. I couldn't turn it off. I called Noah at work and was talking to him when the first tower fell. He decided it was time to come home when I said I thought the building had collapsed, but I couldn't quite tell from all the smoke.

[Lateralus]

I watched the MSNBC realtime coverage for awhile this morning. I had to switch it off because I could feel myself getting anxious remembering that day. It was my daughter's second birthday and I tried to play with her on the floor in such a way that she would always face away from the television. I couldn't turn it off. I called Noah at work and was talking to him when the first tower fell. He decided it was time to come home when I said I thought the building had collapsed, but I couldn't quite tell from all the smoke.
It's crazy how many people I know that have that birthday. There are three in my family, alone.

I don't like to remember it. I can understand family members of the victims remembering. But for society, as a whole, focusing on this seems counter-productive to me. It's not about finding practical solutions, it's more like emotional masturbation.

[Night]

I remember the day clearly.

I was finishing up my Undergrad and my Tuesday schedule had a single class at 3:45PM. As such, I slept in a little bit and awoke around 9.

Flipping on the TV was...indescribable. Almost every station was showing the same horizon shots of the wounded towers spewing gray smoke.

It's hard to explain the emotional response to an event of such magnitude. I felt truly alone. I didn't know what to do. I went to the student union and sat in the now-crowded auditorium.

People were crying. Some were talking on their cell phones. Others silent.

Watching.

One of the worst days of my life.

[Lateralus]

I never understood that response. I didn't know anyone in those towers. I'm sure if I had, I would have felt differently. I was never upset. If anything, I was in awe.

[Night]

I never understood that response. I didn't know anyone in those towers. I'm sure if I had, I would have felt differently. I was never upset. If anything, I was in awe.


Understandable.

The strength of my response is owed to the fact that I knew someone.

[pure_mercury]

I am not really the religious type, but I read the Bible often as a young man. I guess I didn't care for the Catholic rules and rituals much, and wanting to get straight to the text itself. Anyway, this is the verse I wrote on a 9/11 memorial wall on September 11, 2002, in Philadelphia.

"Deceit is in the hearts of those who plot evil, but for those advising peace there is joy. . ." Proverbs 12:20

Now go hug someone who needs it.

[IlyaK1986]

Never forget, and never forgive the religion that caused it and countless atrocities afterwards (and before) is what I say.

[Lateralus]

Never forget, and never forgive the religion that caused it and countless atrocities afterwards (and before) is what I say.
This is what I'm talking about. This is not rational.

[kuranes]

I never understood that response. I didn't know anyone in those towers. I'm sure if I had, I would have felt differently. I was never upset. If anything, I was in awe.
I was disturbed afterward, when I had time to think about it more. I have a powerful imagination. I thought of what it must have been like to make a decision like jumping out of a skyscraper window or burning to death. And I thought of other things too, that are even worse.

[anii]

I have to fly tomorrow. Yes I'm a little superstitious. I'm bringing an ample supply of Ativan.

[WobblyStilettos]

Never forget, and never forgive the religion that caused it and countless atrocities afterwards (and before) is what I say.

That's just plain stupid.

[Falcarius]

If Falcarius remembers correctly he had just got let out of mathematics class early when the first tower came down, as it was the first mathematics class of the year, by the time the second one came down he was watching it on the news at home.

It did not really sink in until he had to stand outside in the rain with around seven hundred annoying people, the next day, for a 'moment of silence'.

[heart]

Every Sept 11 they come out like a mantra, "Never Forget", is there any of us who are likely to forget? Isn't it constantly on the news and in the general talk? Who is likely to forget?

[Lateralus]

Every Sept 11 they come out like a mantra, "Never Forget", is there any of us who are likely to forget? Isn't it constantly on the news and in the general talk? Who is likely to forget?
I agree, and I think this relates to a point I was making earlier. Making such a big deal out of a day like today only serves to stir up emotions. I see no useful purpose, unless you're goal is to stir up emotions. And why would anyone want to do that? ;)

[6sticks]

Every Sept 11 they come out like a mantra, "Never Forget", is there any of us who are likely to forget? Isn't it constantly on the news and in the general talk? Who is likely to forget?
Yeah, it's really annoying. I don't want to have to deal with the cry-police on this day for the rest of my life.

[Antisocial one]

Every Sept 11 they come out like a mantra, "Never Forget", is there any of us who are likely to forget? Isn't it constantly on the news and in the general talk? Who is likely to forget?

I know that this probably not the best thread or time to post this but I just want to prove that this can happen.


9/11 Stupidity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjtdxcNsRCM)

[heart]

Those people will be stupid anyway. The stupid will always be with us. I am talking about people who pay basic attention to current affairs and the world in which they live. How many of these people are likely to forget?

[Antisocial one]

Those people will be stupid anyway. The stupid will always be with us. I am talking about people who pay basic attention to current affairs and the world in which they live. How many of these people are likely to forget?

Well the people that have any intelligence and pay attention, will not forget for the rest of their lives.

[heart]

Well the people that have any intelligence and pay attention, will not forget for the rest of their lives.

Which brings me back to the question, what's the point of all these mantras like "Never Forget" the people are actually listening and paying attention aren't likely to forget and those who do, are unreachable.

There's nothing positive served by stirring up excesses of emotion on such occassions.

[IlyaK1986]

This is what I'm talking about. This is not rational.

How is that not rational? You determine root cause of evil act, and exclude root cause from the set of (things that are good).

In this case, it happened to be a religious ideology.

Just because it's a religion means it's free from any criticism?

[Jeffster]

Which brings me back to the question, what's the point of all these mantras like "Never Forget" the people are actually listening and paying attention aren't likely to forget and those who do, are unreachable.

There's nothing positive served by stirring up excesses of emotion on such occassions.

Oh I think there is. I don't think anyone will forget, but some people already treat it just a historical event and take for granted that it won't happen again. Stirring up "excesses of emotion" can have many positive effects. One is to remind people of the unity that was felt in the country for a period after the attacks, and another is for us not to support government policies that ignore the threat of another attack.

[Lateralus]

How is that not rational? You determine root cause of evil act, and exclude root cause from the set of (things that are good).

In this case, it happened to be a religious ideology.

Just because it's a religion means it's free from any criticism?
You said never forgive the religion. That doesn't even make sense. My response was based on the fact that your post looked like an emotional rant. If it wasn't, please elaborate.

[Falcarius]

How is that not rational? You determine root cause of evil act, and exclude root cause from the set of (things that are good).

In this case, it happened to be a religious ideology.

Just because it's a religion means it's free from any criticism?

Because you use the same retarded bigoted logic as Osama bin Laden. The blaming of all Muslims for 9/11 is no different than Osama bin Laden blaming all Americans for America's barbaric foreign policy.

There is a clear difference between being critical of an idea or action than being bigoted against a group as a whole; the former is not racist and the latter is racist.

[YourLocalJesus]

I remember that day, too. I remember it in exact detail. I was playing Thief: the dark Project, the level with Ramirez mansion. I remember everything in the game, then my dad calls on me from the livingroom screaming that a plane just crashed into the world trade center. Couldn't believe it. It was quite literally the heart of the western world. I stood and watched, trembling with horror, as a second plane crashed into the other tower. Then, some time later, they both collapsed and "bad" became completely fucked up.

[scantilyclad]

I remember this day pretty clearly. It was my freshmen year in high school and i was in World Geography when an announcement was made over the intercom about the incident, and all teachers were instructed to turn on the tv. A lot of people started crying, which i really didn't understand. I didn't feel sad, i didn't feel mad, i wasn't even really shocked. The first thing i thought about is that this was a good excuse to go home for the rest of the day. They made another announcement saying that any student who felt they needed to go home could call their parents, or were free to leave.
I know i sound heartless, but tragedies like this never really surprise me and they just don't leave any sort of an emotional impact on me. I have put myself in the shoes of the families who lost their loved ones, and i do mourn for them, but it still doesn't really surprise me that something like this happened. I saw it coming from a mile away.

I thought hearing about it became annoying. It's all anyone talked about for 6 months straight. We had to write poems, and short stories and talk about our feelings with other students. It was also annoying that all the sudden American's became "patriotic" and started to "care" about the country and it's people. It seem sad to me that it takes an event that killed thousands of people to bring a country together.

The thing i will remember most about 9/11 is how racist people became. Students in school who were Muslim, or looked like the could be were picked on, or people were afraid to be around them. There was a teacher, who was an excellent teacher, who resigned because people were calling him Osama and calling the school to say they were uncomfortable being around him.
2 wrongs just don't make a right to me.
I know my opinion is probably unpopular, and i normally wouldn't even bother to voice my opinion, but i feel very strongly about this topic.

[heart]

I know my opinion is probably unpopular, and i normally wouldn't even bother to voice my opinion, but i feel very strongly about this topic.

I don't really think your opinion is unpopular, just many people afraid to voice it. I am glad you voiced it. :hug:

[Didums]

Real strength isn't in reflection, it is in moving on. Its been 7 years, plenty of time to get over it. Yea, people died, but more people died from the war that our gov't started because of it (follow the trail of red herrings from 9/11 to Iraq). If anything we should be reflecting on our government's incompetence starting since that day, it was completely preventable, but they let it happen, purposefully imo, call me a conspiracy theorist but I see it as highly likely (its almost too easy to plead ignorance).

[Jeffster]

The thing i will remember most about 9/11 is how racist people became. Students in school who were Muslim, or looked like the could be were picked on, or people were afraid to be around them. There was a teacher, who was an excellent teacher, who resigned because people were calling him Osama and calling the school to say they were uncomfortable being around him.
2 wrongs just don't make a right to me.
I know my opinion is probably unpopular, and i normally wouldn't even bother to voice my opinion, but i feel very strongly about this topic.

I was really disappointed by that kind of behavior too. I had normally sensible friends that said things like they wanted to go burn down the convenience stores that the "ragheads" owned, and stuff like that. I understood the anger, but they were totally misdirecting it. I pointed out that a lot of the people they wanted to punish are people who came to America precisely to get away from people like the terrorists, they are peaceful people trying to live their life in freedom like everybody else. For awhile there, you saw so many of those places put up like a hundred American flags and signs that said "American owned" and stuff like that, mainly because they feared retaliation against them for something they didn't cause and never supported. I thought that was pretty sad.

The good thing is I think most people got over those attitudes quickly, and the people who didn't are the same kind of people that were gonna be racist anyway, whether there was a 9/11 or not.

[Hmm]

Oh I think there is. I don't think anyone will forget, but some people already treat it just a historical event and take for granted that it won't happen again. Stirring up "excesses of emotion" can have many positive effects. One is to remind people of the unity that was felt in the country for a period after the attacks, and another is for us not to support government policies that ignore the threat of another attack.

Yes.

[lowtech redneck]

Oh I think there is. I don't think anyone will forget, but some people already treat it just a historical event and take for granted that it won't happen again. Stirring up "excesses of emotion" can have many positive effects. One is to remind people of the unity that was felt in the country for a period after the attacks, and another is for us not to support government policies that ignore the threat of another attack.

Agreed.

[Members Only]

I remember this day pretty clearly. It was my freshmen year in high school and i was in World Geography when an announcement was made over the intercom about the incident, and all teachers were instructed to turn on the tv. A lot of people started crying, which i really didn't understand. I didn't feel sad, i didn't feel mad, i wasn't even really shocked. The first thing i thought about is that this was a good excuse to go home for the rest of the day. They made another announcement saying that any student who felt they needed to go home could call their parents, or were free to leave.
I know i sound heartless, but tragedies like this never really surprise me and they just don't leave any sort of an emotional impact on me. I have put myself in the shoes of the families who lost their loved ones, and i do mourn for them, but it still doesn't really surprise me that something like this happened. I saw it coming from a mile away.

I thought hearing about it became annoying. It's all anyone talked about for 6 months straight. We had to write poems, and short stories and talk about our feelings with other students. It was also annoying that all the sudden American's became "patriotic" and started to "care" about the country and it's people. It seem sad to me that it takes an event that killed thousands of people to bring a country together.

The thing i will remember most about 9/11 is how racist people became. Students in school who were Muslim, or looked like the could be were picked on, or people were afraid to be around them. There was a teacher, who was an excellent teacher, who resigned because people were calling him Osama and calling the school to say they were uncomfortable being around him.
2 wrongs just don't make a right to me.
I know my opinion is probably unpopular, and i normally wouldn't even bother to voice my opinion, but i feel very strongly about this topic.

Very much agreed with. :)

I was at high school, one of the teachers came in and said two planes had crashed into the WTC in NYC, then we watched it on TV. I remember speaking to my dad when I got home from school, he was like "The worlds gone crazy, have you seen what has happend?".

[Demigod]

I remember every day that I wake up in the middle east.

From an unbiased perspective, do you believe the Middle East needs to be a policed state?

Why?

Is there a post 9/11 mentality there, like there is here in North America?

With that being said, how much emphasis does the Iraqi government, military, and its citizens put on the 9/11, post-9/11 tragedies ?

[Demigod]

I was working in a Pennzoil lube shop for a Pakistani during 9/11... Coincidentally I was fired shortly thereafter under the speculation that I was a mole... He thought I was rummaging through his business files and what not. Preposterous if you ask me!

[Anonymous]

I was only 12, so I never really registered the reality and implications of it when it happened. It seemed more like some kind of movie to me than reality. I suppose I was fortunate in this regard.

[Enyo]

Never forget, and never forgive the religion that caused it and countless atrocities afterwards (and before) is what I say.

Oh, please. Islam as a whole is no more responsible for 9/11 than Christianity as a whole was responsible for Waco.

[Enyo]

How is that not rational? You determine root cause of evil act, and exclude root cause from the set of (things that are good).

In this case, it happened to be a religious ideology.

Just because it's a religion means it's free from any criticism?

The irrationality comes into play by painting your root cause with too broad of a brush.

Do you really want to compare which group of People of the Book have a larger body count? To lump all Islam together in this fashion is patently ridiculous.

[IlyaK1986]

You said never forgive the religion. That doesn't even make sense. My response was based on the fact that your post looked like an emotional rant. If it wasn't, please elaborate.

Religion isn't just something emotional. It's something people choose to believe in--no different than which school of economics or government structure or many other multiple sided issues there are.

So any action that stems solely from religion, I look down on, since to me, it conveys either A) a lack of possession of free thought, or worse, B) aggressive ignorance.

So I say never forgive the religion because it's an ideology. Just because there's an invisible man in it doesn't make it any different than a political or moral opinion. Religions--all of them--need to get knocked off of their high horse. Especially the one with the biggest skeleton in its closet.

[IlyaK1986]

The irrationality comes into play by painting your root cause with too broad of a brush.

Do you really want to compare which group of People of the Book have a larger body count? To lump all Islam together in this fashion is patently ridiculous.

What do you mean "all" of it? As far as I know, there are two denominations. Are you talking about that?

[ajblaise]

Religion isn't just something emotional. It's something people choose to believe in--no different than which school of economics or government structure or many other multiple sided issues there are.

I'm not sure how much choice is involved when kids are taken to a religious brainwashing ceremony every Sunday from the time they are born. It's not like parents push Keynesian economics on their kids.

[Lateralus]

I'm not sure how much choice is involved when kids are taken to a religious brainwashing ceremony every Sunday from the time they are born. It's not like parents push Keynesian economics on their kids.
Whoa...I agree with ajblaise for once. Is this a first?

[IlyaK1986]

I'm not sure how much choice is involved when kids are taken to a religious brainwashing ceremony every Sunday from the time they are born. It's not like parents push Keynesian economics on their kids.

Affia Siddiqui. One of the London bombers was a doctor. Counterexamples have you, I think. Trust me, it'd make my life a whole lot easier if this stuff only happened in poor nations with kids taken to religious services and brainwashed. I wish that were the case. While for the most part it is, for the whole part, it isn't.

Edit: And now back to our topic.

Basically, we can't forget.

And political correctness trying to wash away people's fears (from which racism stems) won't do it either.

[ajblaise]

Affia Siddiqui. One of the London bombers was a doctor. Counterexamples have you, I think. Trust me, it'd make my life a whole lot easier if this stuff only happened in poor nations with kids taken to religious services and brainwashed. I wish that were the case. While for the most part it is, for the whole part, it isn't.

Well naturally the more old you grow, the more you tend to form you own opinions and question things, but someone's religious upbringing/brainwashing will naturally have a large effect on this.

[IlyaK1986]

Well naturally the more old you grow, the more you tend to form you own opinions and question things, but someone's religious upbringing/brainwashing will naturally have a large effect on this.

I went to Hebrew School and had a bar mitzvah. I said Baruch Atah Adonai more times than I can count.

And now, I reject the unproven concept of an all-omnipotent God.

If Judaism was only a religion, I'd call myself purely agnostic. But to me, it's a culture and a group of people that aren't only linked by an archaic monotheistic system.

In order to not do crazy things based on an outdated book, all you have to do is look around and think freely, and be open minded.

[Enyo]

Religions--all of them--need to get knocked off of their high horse. Especially the one with the biggest skeleton in its closet.

Christianity?

[Enyo]

What do you mean "all" of it? As far as I know, there are two denominations. Are you talking about that?

Two sects, but there are varying degrees of fundamentalism within them.

A moderate Suni will not be the same as an extremist who also claims to be Suni.

[ajblaise]

Christianity?

Of course. What else?

[Enyo]

I'm not sure how much choice is involved when kids are taken to a religious brainwashing ceremony every Sunday from the time they are born. It's not like parents push Keynesian economics on their kids.

I believe that I have now officially agreed with you exactly twice.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I have a much different reaction looking back at 9/11 than I did when it happened. When it happened I was mostly shocked for a bit and that was mostly it. Looking back I am very pissed, not at the terrorists, but at our Commander in Chief.

This is the worst post Civil War attack on US soil by far. Pearl Harbor was a cake walk compared to this. How does our president respond? Send a minimal force to Afghanistan and then a short time later send a much larger force to a completely unrelated country. He barely tried to stop Al-Queda at all. I can't even fathom reasoning like that. How can a President hate his people that much? Doesn't he care when we are attacked by terrorists?

If you are going to remember 9/11, then do it on election day. Let everyone know that the president cannot get away with dicking around in another country when our safety is at risk. Do not vote for anyone that ever thought Iraq was a good idea. No matter the outcome of Iraq, it is a failed war, because it took our eyes off the real target. The real target is Al-Queda and Bin Laden. Vote for someone that actually wants to stop our real threats instead of make up imaginary ones.

[ajblaise]

I believe that I have now officially agreed with you exactly twice.

i'm just rackin it up.

[Anja]

"Never forget?"

Sorry to carry this cynicism in my heart, but it smacks of jingoism to me.

We've got a second Vietnam on our foolish hands and we've got to keep the homefires burning with hatred and cries for retribution to justify this multi-billion dollar "war." Heck, our youth are being slaughtered, disabled and commiting suicide in record numbers over there. We're slaughtering thousands of innocent adults and children.

Never forget.

[IlyaK1986]

Of course. What else?

The one with the highest body count?

Christianity may be full of crackpots, but at least they're not murdering people because they don't believe in their God.

I say have your religion so long as you don't come into our lives with it.

[heart]

Oh I think there is. I don't think anyone will forget, but some people already treat it just a historical event and take for granted that it won't happen again. Stirring up "excesses of emotion" can have many positive effects. One is to remind people of the unity that was felt in the country for a period after the attacks, and another is for us not to support government policies that ignore the threat of another attack.

Excesses of emotion don't do anything but give the people sharing in them a sense of togetherness and drama. It's just feel good unity.

It would be better if people spent their time researching the facts of what actually happened, what lead up to their happening, what broke down to allow it all to happen and what still needs to be fixed.

I don't see many people around me using their OWN critical thought to look at all the aspects of 9/11 and come to their own conclusions. I see people chanting mantras and accepting at face value what their media tells them without comparing different bits of info. They won't even question when the media contridicts itself.

Made an EDIT here because I don't care for the way I put something: It feels good to many to feel sad about 9/11 but that's not really getting anyone anywhere.

^I should have put it better. I feel like people miss the whole point. People need to do their own thinking and less feeling about this issue. Ask more questions, seek more answers to hard questions and less comfort. That's my point.

[Enyo]

The one with the highest body count?

Christianity may be full of crackpots, but at least they're not murdering people because they don't believe in their God.

I say have your religion so long as you don't come into our lives with it.

Remember the Inquisition? The Crusades?

[Jeffster]

Excesses of emotion don't do anything but give the people sharing in them a sense of togetherness and drama. It's just feel good unity.

Yeah. What's wrong with that? :huh:

It would be better if people spent their time researching the facts of what actually happened, what lead up to their happening, what broke down to allow it all to happen and what still needs to be fixed.

I don't see many people around me using their OWN critical thought to look at all the aspects of 9/11 and come to their own conclusions. I see people chanting mantras and accepting at face value what their media tells them without comparing different bits of info. They won't even question when the media contridicts itself.

It feels good to many to feel sad about 9/11 but that's not really getting anyone anywhere.

?? I think that's just bizarre. It feels good to many to feel sad? Huh?

And I question everything. Especially from the media.

[heart]

?? I think that's just bizarre. It feels good to many to feel sad? Huh?

Bonding. Feelings of shared emotions. That feeling of unity that you mentioned. Humans in general are reinforced by this, it is very tribal and basic to us all...But no thought going into the reasons why the events happened.

The emotionalism can be good up to a point if it inspires individuals to question things, but if the emotions themselves prove a distraction to critical thought, if they stop thought, that's not really so good.

And I question everything. Especially from the media.

You may question everything. I didn't mean to suggest that you personally did not. What I am saying is, I don't see a lot of this in the people around me in offline life. They accept the soundbites and just go with them. They are pure emotion and instinct with little of their own critical thought.

[Lateralus]

Yeah. What's wrong with that? :huh:
It accomplishes nothing substantive.

?? I think that's just bizarre. It feels good to many to feel sad? Huh?
Yes, some call it emotional masturbation.

[heart]

Maybe my choice of the word "good" was not the best word. It feels comforting to in some way to group together in emotion, but after a time it can become a distraction itself that outlives the need for immediate comfort. After the crisis needs to come the questioning, investigating, fixing/solutions and healing.

[pure_mercury]

"Never forget?"

Sorry to carry this cynicism in my heart, but it smacks of jingoism to me.

We've got a second Vietnam on our foolish hands and we've got to keep the homefires burning with hatred and cries for retribution to justify this multi-billion dollar "war." Heck, our youth are being slaughtered, disabled and commiting suicide in record numbers over there. We're slaughtering thousands of innocent adults and children.

Never forget.

We have two wars. One is a legitimate military response that has been mishandled (in Afghanistan). The other is a goddamn joke, and it's actually insulting to the Vietnam War to call Iraq "a second Vietnam," although I wouldn't have put ground troops into that country, either.

[IlyaK1986]

Remember the Inquisition? The Crusades?

Of course. Those were centuries ago. A more recent one is the Salem Witch Hunt, and if Matt Cassel turns out to be a superstar, maybe we need to reinstate it, starting with Bill Belichick :p

But once again, do you see Christians murdering non-Christians today over religious reasons?

I rest my case.

[MetalWounds]

We have two wars. One is a legitimate military response that has been mishandled (in Afghanistan). The other is a goddamn joke, and it's actually insulting to the Vietnam War to call Iraq "a second Vietnam," although I wouldn't have put ground troops into that country, either.

Have to agree with you there, I see it firsthand.

Afganistan is a warzone, for sure. Things are picking up there, and slowly the military focus is going to shift that awy.

Iraq is an occupation. I've noticed that has always been a very "upopular" word to call it, but it's much more fitting than a "war".

[Enyo]

Of course. Those were centuries ago. A more recent one is the Salem Witch Hunt, and if Matt Cassel turns out to be a superstar, maybe we need to reinstate it, starting with Bill Belichick :p

But once again, do you see Christians murdering non-Christians today over religious reasons?

I rest my case.

What case? You had said the religion with the *most* blood on its hands, not the most current.

Does time diminish body count? BTW, the witches of Salem were Christian.

[Anja]

Have to agree with you there, I see it firsthand.

Afganistan is a warzone, for sure. Things are picking up there, and slowly the military focus is going to shift that awy.

Iraq is an occupation. I've noticed that has always been a very "upopular" word to call it, but it's much more fitting than a "war".

I thought of you when I posted, Metal, and hoped that you could hear my support between the lines.

I think, Pure, that we're on the same page and I believe I understand the comment about insulting the VietNam issue.

[MetalWounds]

I thought of you when I posted, Metal, and hoped that you could hear my support between the lines.

I think, Pure, that we're on the same page and I believe I understand the comment about insulting the VietNam issue.

I appriciate your thoughts and support, in fact I appreciate the personal support of anyone, even if they don't support the war.

I think you may be surprised, however, to learn how very little goes on in Iraq these days.

I think, at this point in the game the larger issue is the logistics. The simply amazing amount of money, time, and equipment being poured into the country every day, to uphold a presence that is for the most part vastly underutilized. More than a loss of human lives (Granted, most folks would say that just 1 person is too many, but in the grand scheme of things and in terms of a "war" there are very few) is the unbelievable amount of capitol that "wasted" day in and day out.

[pure_mercury]

I appriciate your thoughts and support, in fact I appreciate the personal support of anyone, even if they don't support the war.

I think you may be surprised, however, to learn how very little goes on in Iraq these days.

I think, at this point in the game the larger issue is the logistics. The simply amazing amount of money, time, and equipment being poured into the country every day, to uphold a presence that is for the most part vastly underutilized. More than a loss of human lives (Granted, most folks would say that just 1 person is too many, but in the grand scheme of things and in terms of a "war" there are very few) is the unbelievable amount of capitol that "wasted" day in and day out.

I also thank you for your service.

[Magic Poriferan]

Funny to think that I was still prepubsecent at the time.

I was actually sleeping when it happened, and my brother woke me up and turned on the TV in our room. I don't like that kind of thing, so of course I was just like "what the fuck?! I'm sleeping..." I seem to recall that he told me the twin towers were hit, but I was so dazed at the time that his words didn't really make sense to me, and I fell asleep again when he left.

When I finally woke up (still earlier than I would have) I went down stairs and saw all the TVs were on. I went to make some tea, and then asked everyone in the living what the hell happened. My brother and a fried of ours at the time were playing an online game, and they said some dude starting blabbering stuff about the country being attacked in the chat. Being a game chat, everyone assumed he was just some dumbass. Turned out he was right though! The World Trade Centers were blasted.

For my part, I was totally unfazed. I really didn't feel any emotion, and my only thought was something to the effect of "I'm going to hear a lot about this shit, aren't I?". Only later on did the idea became more and more interesting to me. I started thinking about the massive political implications of what happened, and figured it was going to lead to even more bad news, some people were probably going to get an undeserved beating (shucks-howdy was I right! Not bad for a kid). Still wasn't emotionally gripped. Even when they said a plain crashed in my state, it didn't freak me out. Honestly, the only thing that bothered me, is when they said it was possible that the Smithsonian was or would catch on fire. That was it. That was my one moment of panic. :laugh: Very INTP.

[Anja]

I was sleeping and my clock radio went on just as it was happening. I listened in disbelief for a while, went down and turned on the TV, saw the people fleeing in the cloud of dust in panic and confusion, turned it off and went back to bed.

Too much fear and pain to take in.

To this day I have not watched footage of the incident except by accident. No thanks.

Morbid for fun? Yes. RL? No thanks.

[heart]

I have question, not just for Anja but for everyone who says they could not watch news coverage of the 9/11 event, did you at least try to learn the facts of the matter and think about what led up to such an event and how impacts our government and the implications for the future and how things ought to be changed or fixed? Forgive me for being curious about this but I am.

I mean I argee the excessive emotionalism of watching the footage just for the sheer watching of it is uncomfortable but learning about the history of the Bojinka plots and what was known, when by whom and what was done and what has changed and what's come out of what happened and things like that seem very important to investigate and think about for every individual who votes.

[Anja]

I did my research by computer.

Are you sure you're not a Jay in disguise, heart?

[heart]

I did my research by computer.

Are you sure you're not a Jay in disguise, heart?

Computer is same as reading and researching (in fact it is probably the only place to really read deeply about the whole thing).

I think it's illogical to ask me if I am a J just because I asked that question. Were I a J, I'd have to have Fe and I don't, sincerely I have very little Fe.

I was merely curious if it related to a total information black out about the topic because I know two people who have done that one's a SJ and one's a SP, if that matters. Their reactions baffle me.

[bluebell]

I have question, not just for Anja but for everyone who says they could not watch news coverage of the 9/11 event, did you at least try to learn the facts of the matter and think about what led up to such an event and how impacts our government and the implications for the future and how things ought to be changed or fixed? Forgive me for being curious about this but I am.


I'm not American but I did spend some time thinking about those issues after 9/11 (no research, though).

Memorial days are helpfu in terms of processing tragedy and helping to heal, I think. I'm speaking in general terms, not of this particular event. I don't know enough about how it's seen in the US to be able to make any comment on it in particular.

[heart]

I know two people who don't know the foggiest thing about the timeline of what actually happened that day and who never read any of the 9/11 report. They don't want to know, but they do all the soundbite type things like "Never Forget" how can they never forget what they've never truly known? :huh:

[Antisocial one]

I just want to ask.

How many of you have noticed that when you merge 9/11 you get 911?

I am not claiming anything,

[werewolfen1984]

Remember 9-11-01, yes... remember the govt. spun LIES :nice:

[Enyo]

I just want to ask.

How many of you have noticed that when you merge 9/11 you get 911?

I am not claiming anything,

Yeah, that was part of the "reason why the terrorists chose that date" dreck. It was also supposed to be First Responders Day or something like that to appreciate the folks who work for 911 and the first responders who deal with the calls.

[millerm277]

I just want to ask.

How many of you have noticed that when you merge 9/11 you get 911?

I am not claiming anything,

I'd think they probably planned it that way...

[werewolfen1984]

The Underlying Politics of 9/11 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4172548494462929899)