What's so bad about wanting a Union job?

[whatever]

I'm well educated and apparently "bright" according to people but I'm really not that ambitious when it comes to finding a job that people think would be "fitting" for me.

I don't want a job that makes me work weekends, I want 40 hours in and then be able to go home and forget about it. I want to be able to put in my time on a job during the weekdays, get paid decently, get good insurance and be able to retire with no real concerns. I don't want a job that invades my thoughts at home, or that I have to worry about how I dress as to how I will advance through the "corporate ladder." I want a union job!

Every time I voice this preference though, people tell me "oh, you shouldn't do that! you're so much better than that!" or worse yet "that would be such a waste!"

Why is it anyone else's concern what a person does for a living? And is it possible to be "too good" to do certain types of work? :huh:

[Lateralus]

I can understand why you'd value those aspects, but are you certain a union can provide them?

[whatever]

they've done a good job for those I know who have union jobs (teachers excluded)- most of my high school classmates are living a lot better than me, and the forwent college to go to the factories or trades

(and no- I don't want a factory job- they move away :( )

[FDG]

That's completely understandable. But also think that there are many jobs that don't imply the necessity of climbing the corporate ladder! You might want to try to widen your horizons after you start from wherever you're comfortable starting. Anyway, I agree with you that free time is an invaluable resource.

[Lateralus]

I don't see how union membership would determine whether or not a job invades your thoughts at home. Also, do you really expect a union to take care of your retirement? Considering how easy it is for union officials to become corrupt, I would personally have a big problem with letting a union or my employer manage my retirement funds. I'd rather hire a financial advisor, assuming I'm not managing the funds myself (which I am).

[cafe]

Sounds good to me. Some unions are crap, but there are some good ones still out there.

Edit: Maybe it's a combination of my blue collar background and the Protestant Work Ethic hammered into my head by the Baptist school, but all honest work is honorable in my mind and I can't understand why people look down on those who work with their hands, etc.

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I wouldn't say unions are bad or people are in any way bad for wanting to be in them at all if they actually deliver what they say. The only thing that I would keep in mind is that a)unions are a business b) the only thing they can guarantee is that you will pay their dues. Your experience with the people you know sounds opposite of the people I know including my husband. You can always join them and leave unless it is a union run shop. I wouldn't work anywhere I was forced to pay for representation I didn't feel I needed. Union battles can get fierce from the town I came from. Crossing the picket lines, strikes etc. all sound like a headache to me. I can't imagine going weeks without pay to prove a point in the event of the worst.

[Lateralus]

Unions aren't 'bad' any more than government is 'bad'. Unions are a tool, and when people are given power with little or no accountability, they're apt to abuse that power. This seems to be a problem for unions because...how do you judge success? It's so subjective. There's no profit and loss statement. You never really know if you were better off with or without them.

I don't see anything 'wrong' with wanting to join a union. Someone who has that desire simply values things differently than me.

[colmena]

One of the most promising young people I've ever met works in a cafe. He gets to have lots of fun and learns about different kinds of tea. He's happy.

[heart]

The only problem is that now union members on average are so apathetic. Their forefathers fought and won, hard earned workers rights in this country and yet they can't even be bothered to show up for the union meetings. When you don't watch what the people who in control are doing, you get what you deserve. They act like they are paying dues to a customer service type organization that will just do all the work on their behalf. It was never meant to be that way, the members are the union and that's the only way it could ever work. Since so many members no longer realize this, unions are crumbling.

The people who bitch the loudest about the union dues in the union are usually the people who never bother to go to the meetings, much less actually go and stand up and make the leadership answer for what they do and never vote in the elections.

There's an excellent movie called "Blue Collar" that really explores all of these issues.

[Usehername]

I worked at Safeway (major grocery chain in Canada and some parts of the States) and we had to pay $12.xx in union dues per week--even when I was young and only given a four hour shift a week. :huh:

[Metamorphosis]

I worked at Safeway (major grocery chain in Canada and some parts of the States) and we had to pay $12.xx in union dues per week--even when I was young and only given a four hour shift a week. :huh:

Being forced to be in the union to work the job is crap imo. It's like being forced to join AARP once you turn 65. Luckily, TX is a right to work state. Not sure how it is in Canada though.

[whatever]

I think that most of you totally missed the question of the OP :dry: a debate on unions would be posted in the politics section...

and yeah, I know that there are good ones and bad ones, but I've got ties into some of them, which definitley helps out with hiring proccesses ;)

[cafe]

I think that most of you totally missed the question of the OP :dry: a debate on unions would be posted in the politics section...

and yeah, I know that there are good ones and bad ones, but I've got ties into some of them, which definitley helps out with hiring proccesses ;)
So true. My uncle is the big guy in the local operators union. He and I don't get along so he would probably never do anything for me or mine, but I've seen the way he can set people up when he wants to. Pretty wild.

[pure_mercury]

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting to be in a union. I'm a committed libertarian, and I will end up in the Producers Guild of America if my career trajectory takes me that way. That is not like a regular union, but they do help to set minimum salaries for producers on major motion pictures, and they also fight credit proliferation. Mostly, it seems like a networking organization, though. Fine by me.

[ygolo]

I think that most of you totally missed the question of the OP :dry: a debate on unions would be posted in the politics section...

and yeah, I know that there are good ones and bad ones, but I've got ties into some of them, which definitley helps out with hiring proccesses ;)

There is nothing wrong with a lack of ambition. But, part of that deal is that people will notice potential in you that you don't utilize. But its certainly isn't immoral or anything.

I was like that for a while for a little while when really young, but people kept telling me to "apply myself." I finally found something to be ambitious about, but being ambitious has its issues too. One of which is the feeling of never really being satisfied. It is also hard to return the happy-go-lucky way of life, because an inner voice pointing at "wasted potential" keeps clamoring.

[Metamorphosis]

Why is it anyone else's concern what a person does for a living? And is it possible to be "too good" to do certain types of work? :huh:

It isn't unless it directly effects them, and nope. :nice:

[whatever]

yeah- I'm not particularly disturbed by my lack of ambition- it lets me relax in ways that my more ambitious friends never really get. I don't want to be rich, just comfortable, and if I'm happy with my life and lifestyle I don't see why it's anyone else's business whether I'm "using my full potential" or not :dry:

If I have enough money to travel and survive and I can retire when I'm old enough, I'm set! :D

I just don't get the idea that a person should feel committed to using thier full potential... I don't feel that I owe society MY happiness and peace of mind!

Does a person owe the full use of thier skills to society? :huh:

[AllAboutSoul]

Sounds good to me. Some unions are crap, but there are some good ones still out there.

Edit: Maybe it's a combination of my blue collar background and the Protestant Work Ethic hammered into my head by the Baptist school, but all honest work is honorable in my mind and I can't understand why people look down on those who work with their hands, etc.

Agreed!

[heart]

Do what makes you happy Whatever, because the people around you will always find something to criticize you about.

If you've never seen the movie "Blue Collar" though, rent it, you'd appreciate it, especially the quote at the very end. Lots of truth in that movie about human nature.

[Usehername]

yeah- I'm not particularly disturbed by my lack of ambition- it lets me relax in ways that my more ambitious friends never really get. I don't want to be rich, just comfortable, and if I'm happy with my life and lifestyle I don't see why it's anyone else's business whether I'm "using my full potential" or not :dry:

If I have enough money to travel and survive and I can retire when I'm old enough, I'm set! :D

I just don't get the idea that a person should feel committed to using thier full potential... I don't feel that I owe society MY happiness and peace of mind!

Does a person owe the full use of thier skills to society? :huh:

I've always imagined it as two vectors fighting against each other... the first, being all the things I have going for me (natural skills, developed skills, the time and energy that individuals, teachers, relatives and others poured into me because they thought I was worth it and perhaps I could do something with it) against the self-preservational needs that i have (physical health, mental and emotional energy to give to my loved ones and people that cross my path sufficient enough that I can still treat them with love and dignity and not cut them down because I've poured out too much of myself, time to indulge my Ni enough that I'm a spiritually/emotionally/mentally healthy soul, time for pleasure so that i can actually enjoy my life's moments).

I've found when I let one vector win (I give of myself beyond what I can handle to keep myself healthy and treat those around me with love and dignity, or, (more likely) I indulge my self-preservational needs to the point that they become wants, and those wants are indulged to the point where I simply put in time for everything else that doesn't indulge my wants.

Both of those places don't sit well with my insides, when I listen to my soul. I believe there's room to move between the two vectors, but when they get to the "Hazard" zone of either end, I feel depressed with my choices.

Give yourself a challenge, oh mighty NT one. You don't need to sweat blood over your job or career, there's nothing wrong with a 9-5er that lets you focus on personal goals, but aiming low might depress you later on in life when you're all settled.

You can also do this by picking a less-challenging-but-still-a-challenge career and then looking for places to pour your heart and soul into outside of work (volunteering, mentoring, training for sports, etc.)

[FDG]

But really, you just have to pay attention what you're going to do it's not extremely boring, in my opinion. Because that's what could really make you unhappy.

[ygolo]

yeah- I'm not particularly disturbed by my lack of ambition- it lets me relax in ways that my more ambitious friends never really get. I don't want to be rich, just comfortable, and if I'm happy with my life and lifestyle I don't see why it's anyone else's business whether I'm "using my full potential" or not :dry:

If I have enough money to travel and survive and I can retire when I'm old enough, I'm set! :D

I just don't get the idea that a person should feel committed to using thier full potential... I don't feel that I owe society MY happiness and peace of mind!

Does a person owe the full use of thier skills to society? :huh:

It is not anybody's business but yours. Still there will be people who see potential in you and wonder "why doesn't she strive for more?"

I am actually a bit jealous. I've been a worry-wort most of my life. I was also brought up in a culture where doing your "cosmic duty" was considered a spiritual journey of utmost importance. I realize now, that the way I interpreted it was rather naive.

I am somewhat obsessed with this phrase:
I believe that to meet the challenges of our times, human beings will have to develop a greater sense of universal responsibility. Each of us must learn to work not just for oneself, one's own family or nation, but for the benefit of all humankind. Universal responsibility is the key to human survival. It is the best foundation for world peace.

But this does not mean earning the most one possibly can, nor even doing the best for you employer. In fact, it doesn't mention, one's job at at all. I now interpret it to mean simply being a good person, and helping others when possible.

[Fiver]

Give yourself a challenge, oh mighty NT one. You don't need to sweat blood over your job or career, there's nothing wrong with a 9-5er that lets you focus on personal goals, but aiming low might depress you later on in life when you're all settled.

You can also do this by picking a less-challenging-but-still-a-challenge career and then looking for places to pour your heart and soul into outside of work (volunteering, mentoring, training for sports, etc.)

Very wise words. 40 hours a week, or 2000 hours a year, is a big chunk of your life. For me I always want my work to be something in and of itself too: fun, interesting, meaningful, helpful.

I picked a career and had to change after five years. Too boring, too many rules, too routine, no creativity or innovation. Academically I enjoyed the subject. At work, I liked the people around me. It was just that the prospect of doing that work for another year became repellant and I switched to an entirely different area of business.

[Babylon Candle]

Very wise words. 40 hours a week, or 2000 hours a year, is a big chunk of your life. For me I always want my work to be something in and of itself too: fun, interesting, meaningful, helpful.

I picked a career and had to change after five years. Too boring, too many rules, too routine, no creativity or innovation. Academically I enjoyed the subject. At work, I liked the people around me. It was just that the prospect of doing that work for another year became repellant and I switched to an entirely different area of business.

do you mind saying what kind of work it was?

[Fiver]

Accounting. I was a CPA.

[ptgatsby]

It is not anybody's business but yours. Still there will be people who see potential in you and wonder "why doesn't she strive for more?"

I'd say it concerns everyone - it is socially efficient to have people with unique abilities/skills to be pushed into the positions there are less people suited for.

I suspect that is what is at work here, in general.

[kyuuei]

A part of me wants to say I know and understand where your relatives are coming from-- They see you as a bright person, and for some it feels like you're cheating yourself and society by having a job that requires none of your intelligence. While I understand this feeling, they don't have to live your life. You owe explanations to no one on your career choice. If you want to work somewhere for 20 years, pay them to handle your shit, and retire in exchange for the risk of a corrupt union, it's your choice and no one else's.

I've heard both terrific and terrible things on Unions.. never being in one, I have no opinion of them. If I wanted a job, and I had to be in a union to get it, I might just be inclined. Otherwise, I don't like people taking my money on things that I can cover myself.

Anyways, nothing limits you from doing both though! Work your union, no one forces you to STAY in the union. If you end up seeing what everyone bitches about, quit and do something else. Get ambitious? You can still quit! Nothing's stopping you, so I say go for it and see where it takes you and to hell with anyone that disagrees! Not everyone likes chocolate, but the business still does well.

[INTJMom]

I'm well educated and apparently "bright" according to people but I'm really not that ambitious when it comes to finding a job that people think would be "fitting" for me.

I don't want a job that makes me work weekends, I want 40 hours in and then be able to go home and forget about it. I want to be able to put in my time on a job during the weekdays, get paid decently, get good insurance and be able to retire with no real concerns. I don't want a job that invades my thoughts at home, or that I have to worry about how I dress as to how I will advance through the "corporate ladder." I want a union job!

Every time I voice this preference though, people tell me "oh, you shouldn't do that! you're so much better than that!" or worse yet "that would be such a waste!"

Why is it anyone else's concern what a person does for a living? And is it possible to be "too good" to do certain types of work? :huh:
The Unions are good for some people and not good for others.
My husband is not cut out for the Union because he is highly ambitious.
He's willing to do the work of three people,
and do whatever it takes to get the job done, and done well.
The Union is demoralizing to him because it doesn't matter how hard he works.
He looks around and sees his co-workers wasting time talking on the phone, sleeping at their desk or
whatever, and they get paid the same that he does, and get the same raise at the same time that he does.
He is surrounded by people who don't care about the quality of their work and he can't stand it.
In my opinion, someone who is willing to work harder to get further ahead should not join a union
or else they will get discouraged and demoralized.

[FDG]

I'd say it concerns everyone - it is socially efficient to have people with unique abilities/skills to be pushed into the positions there are less people suited for.

I suspect that is what is at work here, in general.

You have to take "willingness" in account when you evaluate "suitability", though, imo. An unwilling person is never suitable...

[wildcat]

I'm well educated and apparently "bright" according to people but I'm really not that ambitious when it comes to finding a job that people think would be "fitting" for me.

I don't want a job that makes me work weekends, I want 40 hours in and then be able to go home and forget about it. I want to be able to put in my time on a job during the weekdays, get paid decently, get good insurance and be able to retire with no real concerns. I don't want a job that invades my thoughts at home, or that I have to worry about how I dress as to how I will advance through the "corporate ladder." I want a union job!

Every time I voice this preference though, people tell me "oh, you shouldn't do that! you're so much better than that!" or worse yet "that would be such a waste!"

Why is it anyone else's concern what a person does for a living? And is it possible to be "too good" to do certain types of work? :huh:
The organ (initially established) for the underprivileged-
is not for the underprivileged after the first moment of victory.

It has joined hands with the establishment already.

[ptgatsby]

You have to take "willingness" in account when you evaluate "suitability", though, imo. An unwilling person is never suitable...

I would agree, but it is more efficient if our programmed biases simply push others towards social status blindly, rather than not at all...

(I'm not saying that we should encourage this, only that is probably why it is so universal!)