Do we make soceity or does Soceity make us?

[SparklingImpediments]

I've analysed a lot of "individuals", and I have friends/family from all 16 types... those that share the same category definitely have a lot of similarities, even with their varying degrees of E/I etc., but I've also met quite a few who seem to defy the fundamental characteristics of their type, though they are most certainly that type!? I'm wondering how you guys chalk that up? I personally feel that there has to be some sort of a balance of effect between one's personality type and one's environment, sex etc... what do you think?

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Both.

[SparklingImpediments]

Is this true of you?

[Peguy]

I addressed this issue in my rant about communitarianism:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/211342-post35.html

I uphold a basic Personalist perspective; that is we're all unique in some ways, but at the same time we're forged by our relationships with others. Both Individualism and Collectivism are extremes in opposite directions, which transform people into mere abstract concepts.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Is this true of you?

My natural tendency is to question everything and do what I like regardless of what other people think. Compared to the average person I'd say society has hardly any effect on me at all. At the same time there are many parts of me that are a product of my environment. Conversely even the biggest conformist will do their own thing from time to time. So it's both regardless of who you are referring to. There are simply degrees of conformity or nonconformity.

[SparklingImpediments]

How terribly fascinating! To be honest, I didn't know what kind of "characters" I would find in this community, I'm quite pleasantly surprised! After reading your thoughts on Communitarianism I'm very curious to understand it more clearly... would you say it's along the same principles that John Donne wrote of when he said "No man is an island,"?

So you don't believe in Individualism or Collectivism? Would you say a Personalist's view point is a combination of the two? Do you refer to people as individuals? Do you agree with Borden Bowne's idea that it's impossible for the entire universe to exist apart from a person to experience it?

Personally, as far as the political scene of this world, I believe in remaining neutral... to the death, if need be.

[entropie]

I've analysed a lot of "individuals", and I have friends/family from all 16 types... those that share the same category definitely have a lot of similarities, even with their varying degrees of E/I etc., but I've also met quite a few who seem to defy the fundamental characteristics of their type, though they are most certainly that type!? I'm wondering how you guys chalk that up? I personally feel that there has to be some sort of a balance of effect between one's personality type and one's environment, sex etc... what do you think?

No offence, but are you sure you "analyzed" all of them to a full understanding ? And besides, do you really know all of the 16 types ?

I do not

[Peguy]

How terribly fascinating! To be honest, I didn't know what kind of "characters" I would find in this community, I'm quite pleasantly surprised! After reading your thoughts on Communitarianism I'm very curious to understand it more clearly... would you say it's along the same principles that John Donne wrote of when he said "No man is an island,"?


Yes that would be compatible with Personalist precepts.


So you don't believe in Individualism or Collectivism? Would you say a Personalist's view point is a combination of the two?

On the surface, you could say that. But in reality, Personalism addresses people as actual concrete entities, not abstract ones as does Individualism and Collectivism. Although there is the concept of "Social Individualism", which does bear resemblences to Personalism.

Do you refer to people as individuals?

I prefer to refer to them as persons. ;)

Do you agree with Borden Bowne's idea that it's impossible for the entire universe to exist apart from a person to experience it?

I'll confess to ignorance about Borden Bowne's teachings(although he is on my to-read list). From what you say, I would agree to the basic point you outlined.

[Peguy]

sorry for my laconic response. It's getting late and I can't spend too much time articulating my thoughts.

[SparklingImpediments]

No offence, but are you sure you "analyzed" all of them to a full understanding ? And besides, do you really know all of the 16 types ?

I do not

"analyzed" - yes, thank you for that. By definition, yes I have.

16 types - do I know the variables? Or have I actually met these persons?

No offence taken.

[entropie]

Then we are going to see, if you can hold up to your end of the bargain.

Welcome to the forums

[SparklingImpediments]

Well... it's been most interesting... no apologies necessary! Thank you for your kind indulgence of my thirsty mind!

It's quite unique this society... from just speaking with you, I thought I was talking to a much older man, imagine my surprise to see your age!? Bravo! And good-night kind sir.

[Peguy]

It's quite unique this society... from just speaking with you, I thought I was talking to a much older man, imagine my surprise to see your age!? Bravo! And good-night kind sir.

LOL! Literally almost all ENFPs I've known have said that about me. ;)

[SparklingImpediments]

Then we are going to see, if you can hold up to your end of the bargain.

Welcome to the forums

Which bargain are you speaking of?

Thank you, I do feel most welcome.

[entropie]

The bargain of you possessing the knowledge to analyze people.

[SparklingImpediments]

LOL! Literally almost all ENFPs I've known have said that about me. ;)

All that you've known in person or just online? ;)

[Peguy]

All that you've known in person or just online? ;)

Both. Offline, people always think Im 5-10 years older than what I really am, mostly because of my behavior. Online, one ENFP originally thought I was 50.

[SparklingImpediments]

The bargain of you possessing the knowledge to analyze people.

You don't seem to be the type that would wish to be "analyzed"...

I have no certificate... I simply have enjoyed to research subjects that interest me... that being people. I've never tried to analyze someone online before, either... all my conclusions have been drawn from the three dimensional. ;)

[ajblaise]

It depends on if you are a leader or follower.

[SparklingImpediments]

Both. Offline, people always think Im 5-10 years older than what I really am, mostly because of my behavior. Online, one ENFP originally thought I was 50.

I must concur that I too thought you were in your 50s. Not to pry, and I mean this with the utmost respect, but, you don't sound like a native of America.

At what age did you begin your theoretical etc studies?

[entropie]

You don't seem to be the type that would wish to be "analyzed"...

I have no certificate... I simply have enjoyed to research subjects that interest me... that being people. I've never tried to analyze someone online before, either... all my conclusions have been drawn from the three dimensional. ;)

Nono that was not my point but now you are on the right track. I have come to learn here that extroverted Intuition can lead you to a false pretense about people.

I was just baffled by your choice of words :)

[SparklingImpediments]

Nono that was not my point but now you are on the right track. I have come to learn here that extroverted Intuition can lead you to a false pretense about people.

I was just baffled by your choice of words :)

Interesting... sorry for the confusion, but did you have the false pretence or did I, or is it both?

[entropie]

False pretence is inherent to knowing it all.

Take one of this posts and you know how people think of us:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/4581-extroverted-intuition-megolamania.html

[whatever]

Agreeing with Liquid Laser- both. Both Nature and Nurture are shown to have an effect on making us who we are. Society is made up of individuals, who influence the way that society operates through a variety of mechanisms, ranging from holding public office to purchasing certain items at the grociery store.

Read up a bit on social psychology and you may find some answers that you're looking for :)

[entropie]

Agreeing with Liquid Laser- both. Both Nature and Nurture are shown to have an effect on making us who we are. Society is made up of individuals, who influence the way that society operates through a variety of mechanisms, ranging from holding public office to purchasing certain items at the grociery store.

Read up a bit on social psychology and you may find some answers that you're looking for :)

You really have to improve your bad-assness. This post so said nothing

[whatever]

sorry- a bit sleepy at the moment :tongue:

Basically, just a stupid question because everyone knows that the answer is both unless you are one of those kids who's raised by dogs in the wild or something, and that doesn't really happen all too often, so the answer is still both!

Really... WTF?!? This is like answering the question "Is Jessica Simpson an idiot or a moron?"

;)

[entropie]

You have to pay a visit to my childhood, it was like being raised by dogs in the wild

[whatever]

then again, that would mean that canine society shaped you I suppose and that you fit in poorly since you had no tail to wag to express your emotions or whatever.... :thinking:

I guess that means that the answer is ALWAYS both I guess :laugh:

[entropie]

haha, you forget, I had no tail on the back, but this does not mean at all, I had no tail to express my feelings with :D

[whatever]

oh yes... you could at least express excitment or attraction :laugh:

[JAVO]

Society mostly makes us, but there are an elite few who make society more than most.