career as a Philosopher

[Lexlike]

How of you want to pursuit a career as a philosopher or is studying philosophy?
As a philosopher, how are chances for a good job?

[Magic Poriferan]

Majoring in philosophy is my back-up plan if it turns out that I suck too much at mathematics. It is not one my two primariy aims, though.

In the USA, philosophy basically helps you get a job teaching philosophy. Other than that, it is only as useful as any other generic degree. Getting a degree in philosophy is not what most people would call a "career decision".

[Lexlike]

Majoring in philosophy is my back-up plan if it turns out that I suck too much at mathematics. It is not one my two primariy aims, though.

In the USA, philosophy basically helps you get a job teaching philosophy. Other than that, it is only as useful as any other generic degree. Getting a degree in philosophy is not what most people would call a "career decision".

true. In Europe it isn t different. So there is not much more what you can do but teaching philosophy? what about psychology??
btw thx for the help!

[Peguy]

Yes, only by teaching philosophy does one gain the recognition of officially being a "philosopher". Nevermind that numerous great minds were never academics themselves.

An alternative route would go into certain areas of journalism which explore philosophical issues. Numerous "philosophers" engaged in that.

[Magic Poriferan]

what about psychology??

Well, here, psychology is very often distinguished as its own category. Because of that, people rarely get into psychology through philosophy. You have to take courses specifically for psychology.

[Peguy]

Unless you get into Phenomenology, which deals alot with the interrelation between human consciousness and philosophy.

[Lexlike]

Well, here, psychology is very often distinguished as its own category. Because of that, people rarely get into psychology through philosophy. You have to take courses specifically for psychology.

No, i actually meant the career chances after studying psychology? Are they any better?

[Recoleta]

No, i actually meant the career chances after studying psychology? Are they any better?

From what I have seen from my friends (3-4 of them) who studied psychology their chances of getting a job aren't really any better than anyone else with a Bachelor's degree. Psychology when coupled with another degree (like law/criminal justice, journalism, or perhaps business) looks good, but truthfully, a psychology degree by itself isn't too valuable unless you plan to further study psychology at the graduate level with the intention of becoming a counselor, teacher, or psychologist. But that's just my opinion.

[Lexlike]

From what I have seen from my friends (3-4 of them) who studied psychology their chances of getting a job aren't really any better than anyone else with a Bachelor's degree. Psychology when coupled with another degree (like law/criminal justice, journalism, or perhaps business) looks good, but truthfully, a psychology degree by itself isn't too valuable unless you plan to further study psychology at the graduate level with the intention of becoming a counselor, teacher, or psychologist. But that's just my opinion.


Well, if I would start to study (philosphy or psychology) i would try to finish til the master titel (do not know if you call it in the Usa also this way)... i m studying law, but as a true xNxP you always look for possibilities:blush:

[heart]

Somehow I think it all depends on whether you want to pursue your own independent thought where it leads or whether you want to be a mouthpiece for a modern think-tank.

Do you like to grind lenses?

[murkrow]

haha

[BlueWing]

-You will need 6 years to finish your PhD as a full time student.
-Approximately 5% of Philosophers attain a professorship.
-In order to be in that 5% you must attend a prestigious school. (This far from guarantees a position for you). At a fourth league school you will be competing with 100 others for a professorship. At a community college, 50 at least. At a primary league school, 1 out of 400-500. Ivy league, approximately a thousand.

Similar scenario is to be encountered for many academic professorship positions, psychology is one of them.

[ygolo]

Colin McGinn's The Making of a Philosopher: My Journey Through Twentieth-Century Philosophy (http://www.amazon.com/Making-Philosopher-Journey-Twentieth-Century-Philosophy/dp/0060957603) was instrumental in my decision to not become a philosopher.

There are certain things I like about the field, but I am not sure I have anything original to contribute here (though, as I get older, I do wonder if that was too hasty a decision).

[Edahn]

Also a good segue to law if you find you can sacrifice the time, the ability to investigate nature (as opposed to conflicts), and work within certain rules to persuade rather than understand...for wads of money.

[reason]

Philosophy is too easy :)

[animenagai]

i'm a philosophy major. if you're not going down the academic track, you'll have a decent chance in policy work. time magazine did a piece a while back asking businesses they would like their employees to have. obviously, people expected business degrees to win out. funnily enough, philosophy was first. no shit! when it comes to general skills you would need in the business world such as critical thinking, verbal communication, debating etc. there is no better general degree than philosophy. having said that, i'm going down the academic track :smile:.

[FDG]

i'm a philosophy major. if you're not going down the academic track, you'll have a decent chance in policy work. time magazine did a piece a while back asking businesses they would like their employees to have. obviously, people expected business degrees to win out. funnily enough, philosophy was first. no shit! when it comes to general skills you would need in the business world such as critical thinking, verbal communication, debating etc. there is no better general degree than philosophy. having said that, i'm going down the academic track :smile:.

And why would a person with a business degree lack critical thinking, verbal communication and debate capability? I suspect that those businesses wanted philosophy majors so that they'd accept a lower entry wage in comparison to a business major due to the fact that the degree isn't particularly related to the role they're going to cover. I am not trying to shit philosophy majors here, I am only saying that in this specific case bussinesses could have an ulterior motive for their choice.

[Peguy]

Somehow I think it all depends on whether you want to pursue your own independent thought where it leads or whether you want to be a mouthpiece for a modern think-tank.

Do you like to grind lenses?

Shoe-maker is another possible career choice for philosophers. ;)

[BlueWing]

And why would a person with a business degree lack critical thinking, verbal communication and debate capability? I suspect that those businesses wanted philosophy majors so that they'd accept a lower entry wage in comparison to a business major due to the fact that the degree isn't particularly related to the role they're going to cover. I am not trying to shit philosophy majors here, I am only saying that in this specific case bussinesses could have an ulterior motive for their choice.

Essentially all educational programs will train critical thinking faculties. Business considerably less so than philosophy as it does not force one to analyze complex ideas as rigorously as one is in the philosophy program.

Colin McGinn's The Making of a Philosopher: My Journey Through Twentieth-Century Philosophy (http://www.amazon.com/Making-Philosopher-Journey-Twentieth-Century-Philosophy/dp/0060957603) was instrumental in my decision to not become a philosopher.

There are certain things I like about the field, but I am not sure I have anything original to contribute here (though, as I get older, I do wonder if that was too hasty a decision).


Explain your reasoning further.

[ygolo]

Explain your reasoning further.

I had become some what of a "fan" of McGinn in High School and read excerpts of his books from the local library. Especially on subjects of meaning, mind, and consciousness and other such things.

Through college, I had decided to focus on Mathematics and Engineering and chose Engineering as a career, but still had some interest in philosophy (enough so that I had a reputation for being philosophical among the Engineering students).

I had early regrets about going into Engineering in a corporate environment when I graduated, because it was right after the dot-com bust, and much of the innovative work opportunities were simply not being funded--everything became about getting the next product to market.

When McGinn wrote his "intellectual autobiography," it was instantly on my "must-read" list. I was even thinking I could see how to make a career change.

But I found that there were similar issues with "self-selection" in academia and distrust of intellectualism outside of academia that I had seen in Engineering. In fact, it seemed, somehow, universal. In addition, McGinn himself seemed disillusioned in finding answers to the questions he had first sought to answer, and seemed like he had resorted to dealing with fiction.

Also, I saw very clearly how limiting not having empirical methods can be in the search for truth, since I was spending long hours in the lab debugging silicon during the same period I was reading the book.

I found the critical thinking done in the lab to be much more satisfying; I brought more of my "philosophical" engineering style into the lab (encouraged by "re-discovering" my interest in it through McGinns book) earning me a promotion at work.

The summary is that I found that critical thinking could be applied equally well outside of philosophy, and at the same time more likely to yield tenable answers if empirical methods are utilized in conjunction with logic.

One reason I second guessed the decision to not pursue philosophy as a career, is that Engineering in a corporate environment (even in lab-work) has become increasingly bureaucratic, and more effort is needed to simply obtain basic equipment, tools, and documentation than it does to do actual engineering work. Beyond that, I find I am solving the same problems over-and-over again. What used to take critical thinking, is now done by route and brute-force. Finally, management no longer has the patience to look for the "root" of issues, and simply wants "workarounds" all the time.

[animenagai]

And why would a person with a business degree lack critical thinking, verbal communication and debate capability? I suspect that those businesses wanted philosophy majors so that they'd accept a lower entry wage in comparison to a business major due to the fact that the degree isn't particularly related to the role they're going to cover. I am not trying to shit philosophy majors here, I am only saying that in this specific case bussinesses could have an ulterior motive for their choice.

because believe it or not, many business degrees do not promote discussion and on the spot thinking at all. so much of it is just rote learning and doing stuff by the book. philosophy by definition really requires arguing and thinking for yourself.

[FDG]

because believe it or not, many business degrees do not promote discussion and on the spot thinking at all. so much of it is just rote learning and doing stuff by the book. philosophy by definition really requires arguing and thinking for yourself.

Well then businesses must ask very different things there in the US, because here what is most rewarded is precisely doing things by the book...

[animenagai]

Well then businesses must ask very different things there in the US, because here what is most rewarded is precisely doing things by the book...

that's what i said :shock:. the business world, especially LEARNING business is very much about doing stuff by the book. philosophers do not do that, we are trained to critique and question.

[Uytuun]

because believe it or not, many business degrees do not promote discussion and on the spot thinking at all. so much of it is just rote learning and doing stuff by the book. philosophy by definition really requires arguing and thinking for yourself.

(I always find it so funny that there's an INTJ-INTP like feud going on between the applied sciences and the pure ones/useless humanities degrees - it tends to be financial snobbery vs. intellectual snobbery (poor but smart and free-thinking) - that said, it's kind of true :D)

I'm pursuing a fairly useless humanities degree.