Ti/Te and Math

[Eric B]

I always hear that Ti types are good with math. Math is full of frameworks and principles, and some geniuses can use them to solve complex arithmetic in their heads in seconds.

Still, I wonder about whether the actual handling of numbers is Te. You may have good frameworks or principles with numbers, but does this help with complex algebraic formulas such quadratic equations, calculus, etc. Since that aspect of math is basically arranging external things (the visible figures before you), it seems more Te'ish. I guess having certain principles internally might help, but do any Ti types find difficulty with shuffling around the numbers and variables, and are Te types better at that stuff, and thus can just do the problem set before them, and not even need to internalize principles?

[substitute]

The smartest math genius I've ever known is an ISTJ. When I see him swatting over calculus I can't help but notice how his particular personality traits seem made for the job of math genius. he notices rules and follows them meticulously, doesn't make careless errors like many N's do (ever forgot to carry the one? he doesn't!!), and yes, that Te ability to organize things in front of you.

I can't say much about Ti and math because though I'm a Ti type, I've always hated math :laugh:

[Lexlike]

I can't say much about Ti and math because though I'm a Ti type, I've always hated math :laugh:

propably persons with Ti as the first process???
btw i always liked math

[CaptainChick]

I am mathematically inclined, and even as a young child I had always had an affinity for numbers as well as a deep respect/appreciation for the properties of, and patterns inherent to mathematics. Academically speaking, I have always done well in my math classes, and for what it is worth and perhaps to extrinsically demonstrate my mathematical ability, at the age of 16, I took A.P. calculus during my junior year of high school.

Geometry pwns algebra, imo, and I am very intrigued by set theory, Cantor rules!!!

I think my Te definitely acts as a contributing factor in my ability to reason logically.

I am, and have always been, a very visual mathematician. Personally, I've always found mathematical computation to be relatively easy but boring and tedious as hell, whereas I've found apprehension/comprehension of mathematical patterns and concepts to be quite stimulating/fascinating/fun.

[prplchknz]

I haven't had math past algebra 2 I find algebra the easiest to understand followed by geometry. Of course even though I could pick up the rules fast and memorize formulas (all that I have forgotten since then) I was so careless that I still do poorly in math plus I fail at simple math.

[Uberfuhrer]

Being artistically inclined, I'm probably therefore more geometry inclined. Although I have no clue about the formulas. All I care about is designing my roller coasters more efficiently and accurately.

I always failed algebra in college, partially because I didn't do the homework and partially because I'm not too good with numbers. Most of all, however, I didn't see the point of it.

Although to design the most awesome roller coasters, one need not be a math whiz -- poorly designed architectural structures are always fun to watch crumble! :devil:

[CaptainChick]

I think Ns are more inclined to appreciate and be more apt at geometry than either arithmetic or algebra.

[prplchknz]

Being artistically inclined, I'm probably therefore more geometry inclined. Although I have no clue about the formulas. All I care about is designing my roller coasters more efficiently and accurately.

I always failed algebra in college, partially because I didn't do the homework and partially because I'm not too good with numbers. Most of all, however, I didn't see the point of it.

Although to design the most awesome roller coasters, one need not be a math whiz -- poorly designed architectural structures are always fun to watch crumble! :devil:

My brother uses math to design stuff, and enjoys it. He loves math and he loves building. I'm the opposite, if I have to build something I can picture the finish product in my mind, and then hope it works. Of course I hate building things. And I also have problems deconstructing things in my mind so I don't know where to start just how I want it to look when done.

[zago]

I hesitate to think there is a difference between Te and Ti when doing math. Both of them are logical analyzers. They usually analyze different things, but in this case they will both be aimed at math. For this reason, I think they might enjoy math more than Fs. However, I think that Ni and Ne might prove to be the biggest help to coming up with new ideas in math or solving problems that you aren't really sure how to solve.

[FDG]

I've always been good with pure calculations - I was actually considered a bit of a freak in primary school - and later I became good at quick derivations and integrations. However, there have always been some mathematical concepts that didn't really sit right in my mind, so I have some holes here and there.
Overall, I think that I'm pretty good at math. If I had cultivated my talent as a little child, I probably could be really good now. However, as an adolescent I've preferred more typical pastimes such as girls and sports.

[Lateralus]

I don't know how much function or type has to do with this. I think it has more to do with types of intelligence. For me, math has always seemed like common sense. Where other people have to study and work through examples to understand the material, I usually just 'get it'.

I'm probably a mathematician in a parallel universe.

[substitute]

propably persons with Ti as the first process???
btw i always liked math

I dunno, I think for me it was more a case of having really shitty teachers and other huge issues I had at school (identity crisis being one but sooo many others) so i was never able to really concentrate or enjoy the actual content. Math lessons were especially traumatic for me when we got told to sit in alphabetical order, resulting in me being next to, for a year, the person that bullied me all the way thru school :(

I loved physics - the bullies weren't in my class for that - I was able to relax and take in the lesson and I enjoyed it and never had any trouble following all the math involved in that.

So... there're a lotta environmental factors I imagine, for other people too, besides their order of cognitive functions :)

[prplchknz]

I dunno, I think for me it was more a case of having really shitty teachers and other huge issues I had at school (identity crisis being one but sooo many others) so i was never able to really concentrate or enjoy the actual content. Math lessons were especially traumatic for me when we got told to sit in alphabetical order, resulting in me being next to, for a year, the person that bullied me all the way thru school :(

I loved physics - the bullies weren't in my class for that - I was able to relax and take in the lesson and I enjoyed it and never had any trouble following all the math involved in that.

So... there're a lotta environmental factors I imagine, for other people too, besides their order of cognitive functions :)

I was the same way for chemistry. I never took physics but everyone said I'd probably be decent at it. But I think with chemistry i had a really good teacher.not exactly. But I think what I mean is I found the math more enjoyable and easier to understand in chemistry because it applied to something I was interested in.

[Eric B]

I am mathematically inclined, and even as a young child I had always had an affinity for numbers as well as a deep respect/appreciation for the properties of, and patterns inherent to mathematics. Academically speaking, I have always done well in my math classes, and for what it is worth and perhaps to extrinsically demonstrate my mathematical ability, at the age of 16, I took A.P. calculus during my junior year of high school.

I think my Te definitely acts as a contributing factor in my ability to reason logically.

I am, and have always been, a very visual mathematician. Personally, I've always found mathematical computation to be relatively easy but boring and tedious as hell, whereas I've found apprehension/comprehension of mathematical patterns and concepts to be quite stimulating/fascinating/fun.
Well, it's a sure thing that the Ne comes into play with the patterns. Since you're good with the patterns and properties but think the actual calculation was boring; would you think then that the properties and patterns were more asociated withTe, and the calculation, with Ti? I Thought it might have been the reverse, and this is at the center of what I was asking.

With the simplest definition of the thinking attitudes being Jung's "internally based logic" vs "externally based logic", it would seem that math would be external. But it seems the logical principles are not only "external", but also universal, and in the case of the feeling attitudes, "universal" [values] actually get grouped together with the internal (introverted) focus. So I imagine that would apply to the thinking side as well.

[Magic Poriferan]

I personally think that computational and procedural sorts of math should be better performed by STs. Si is really ideal for mathematics.

More theoretically math is probably more appropriate for NTs. I personally can handle mathematical logic pretty well, but I'm horrible at doing math. I struggling in an introductory algebra class. My Ti isn't really helping me here.

[dnivera]

Math rules!

What percentage of accountants and actuaries are STJ, like 90?

I always got better grades in high school math than my INTJ brother because I had better attention to detail. I learn from practice and repitition, which is great for predictable math tests - just study and you'll get 100. My brother didn't care for the boring, repititious HW problem sets so he didn't score as high. He, however, far exceeded me in college-level math where creativity was required for problem solving, and most tests were not based on previously learned material.

[Eric B]

I guess this Si issue would also be a good explanation. Si is relief for me, and I'm good at nostalgia with it, but not some other uses of it, and in later grades of school, it was just starting to kick off, and the memorizing aspect of it was the hardest aspect of it for me, with the formulas and stuff. Yet I too had on my own identified many properties and patterns, but in numbers themselves, and geometry (specifically, polygons). So I had a great mind for math, yet always had problems with the [assigned] work part of it.

[mlittrell]

im pretty sure Albert Einstein was an INTP.

as for my opinion, i think both would be equally good at math but would go about it in two different ways. or see it in two different lights.

[CaptainChick]

However, I think that Ni and Ne might prove to be the biggest help to coming up with new ideas in math or solving problems that you aren't really sure how to solve.
You might be onto something, here.

I have always been chastised and at times even penalized by my math teachers for being a renegade "step-skipper" in solving equations. LOL, I wouldn't be able to count the amount of times, "Show your work!" has been scribbled in red next to my, correct answers!!! :huh: Also, as a child, word problems were my absolute favorite, and I relished in finding alternate or innovative ways to arrive at their solutions.


For me, math has always seemed like common sense. Where other people have to study and work through examples to understand the material, I usually just 'get it'.

I'm probably a mathematician in a parallel universe.
Lol, math has always intuitively/instinctively made sense to me as well, and growing up I often found myself feeling utterly baffled by many of my peers' apparent inability/difficulty towards grasping what I found/thought to be ridiculously easy/obvious/logical/simple rules/applications.

Math just made sense and I couldn't understand/fathom how this was not the case for everyone.

I dunno, I think for me it was more a case of having really shitty teachers and other huge issues I had at school (identity crisis being one but sooo many others) so i was never able to really concentrate or enjoy the actual content. Math lessons were especially traumatic for me when we got told to sit in alphabetical order, resulting in me being next to, for a year, the person that bullied me all the way thru school :(

I loved physics - the bullies weren't in my class for that - I was able to relax and take in the lesson and I enjoyed it and never had any trouble following all the math involved in that.

So... there're a lotta environmental factors I imagine, for other people too, besides their order of cognitive functions :)
I hate fucking bullies, that really sucks, and I'm sorry that you had to be subjected to that kind of torture, and on a daily basis, no less!!!

:sad:

Hmm, I think, generally speaking, math teachers suck major ass!!!

I can't recall a single math teacher or professor in the history of my formal education that I loved or respected. *All* of them were socially inept, some were vile, most were robotic and a few, (my favorite of the bunch), were more on the gentle/neutral side.

I think I can safely say that I've never really been "taught" math, rather, for as long as I can remember, I have either taught myself or learned directly from the textbook.

As for environmental prohibiting factors, I was rarely, if ever, encouraged by my teachers, after all, girls aren't good at math.

(ass-fucks)


Well, it's a sure thing that the Ne comes into play with the patterns. Since you're good with the patterns and properties but think the actual calculation was boring; would you think then that the properties and patterns were more asociated withTe, and the calculation, with Ti? I Thought it might have been the reverse, and this is at the center of what I was asking.Ti, I'd imagine, would foster and facilitate more adept computational skills amongst mathematicians.

As of late, academically speaking, I have somewhat deviated from my mathematical roots, but I must admit, or add, that I did derive a slight sense of joy/satisfaction in systematically calculating derivatives or solving any other "non-thinking" linearly natured problems/equations, because I could listen to music while working on them and in the process would fall into a kind of rhythmic and relaxing zone. Tangent, sorry. :/

With the simplest definition of the thinking attitudes being Jung's "internally based logic" vs "externally based logic", it would seem that math would be external. But it seems the logical principles are not only "external", but also universal, and in the case of the feeling attitudes, "universal" [values] actually get grouped together with the internal (introverted) focus. So I imagine that would apply to the thinking side as well.
I find logical principles to be innately apprehensible , for me, logic is a simple and straight forward cognitive tool/means of discerning possible or probable truths/outcomes given a set of conditions/variables contained within a particular scenario/problem.

Logic, like language, is a universally human cognitive function/capacity.

[Aerithria]

I love math. I grasp it well, and I've always enjoyed playing around with algebra and formulas. It's interesting to see all the geometry-lovers, because I've always found that to be my least favourite part of it, besides statistics (bleh!). Regardless of how much I like it, however, it's never really been in my interest to have math as a career, even though I'm obviously suited for it. For me, math is a tool, and while I can think of it conceptually and figure out that kind of thing easily, to me it's always been about how to apply it, which is why I love physics so much. Math on its own seems odd, because it's like carrying a screwdriver around and refusing to screw anything with it.

Here's where I think you'd find the biggest difference between Ti and Te and math: Ti people are probably more inclined to like math conceptually and are probably more likely to appreciate it as it is, whereas Te people seem to need an area to apply it to.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I've met excellent math users among all of the T types. Overall Te and Ti seem to be different ways to achieve the same result.

[Randomnity]

Math was always one of my best classes, although I didn't particularly enjoy it. The only part I was bad at was brand-new approaches to questions - if I see any type of question once or twice, it's easy. When you're supposed to figure out new methods during the tests, it gets a lot harder. Thankfully that didn't happen often (and it's why I view math as a tool, not as an end in itself).

[OneWithSoul]

my best friend is a strong INTP and he can work, nearly, all of the math problems he needs figuring out, in his head..he's really brilliant..

But I find with myself, I tend to be more skilled in History, Literature, and some sciences..not so much the practical mathematics.

[Enyo]

I don't know how much function or type has to do with this. I think it has more to do with types of intelligence. For me, math has always seemed like common sense. Where other people have to study and work through examples to understand the material, I usually just 'get it'.

I'm probably a mathematician in a parallel universe.

Now, I always had a hard time with math classes, because they held no meaning to me. I just couldn't see the value of any of it.

In a real world setting, doing my projections and figures were all algebraic in nature, but were easy and made perfect sense because they had meaning to me.

I don't think it's that I'm terrible at math so much as it bores me senseless and I just can't be bothered with it. Which, I suppose, is kind of funny since I have 8 years of classical music and two years of jazz.

No thanks, give me the humanities any day.

[Enyo]

my best friend is a strong INTP and he can work, nearly, all of the math problems he needs figuring out, in his head..he's really brilliant..

But I find with myself, I tend to be more skilled in History, Literature, and some sciences..not so much the practical mathematics.

Substitute "best friend" with "husband" (INTP/ISTP) and I can relate to that entire post.

As for sciences, though, I absolutely hated chemistry. Give me any form of biological science, though, and I was all over it. Those made sense to me. Chemistry didn't really interest me unless I got to make pretty fire. :devil:

[ygolo]

I like Math. Enough that I decided to get a degree in it. :nerd:

I don't like calculations, however, and often screw them up.

Still, I know that if the time came, and I was motivated, I could do a couple of weeks of preparation in this matter, and be able to calculate quickly and accurately again.

I think about math in a very conceptual way, and find I can often simply avoid the calculations many people do get answers (or good estimates). This is especially useful, on multiple choice tests. :D

As for being really quick and accurate on calculations, that's why we have computers. IMO, the abilities to estimate quantities without a lot of calculation, and perform sanity checks for more exact numbers is a lot more useful.

Everyone ought to be taught how to check if a result should be even vs. odd at least (and in general be able to do modulo arithmetic with a low modulus). Also handy is the rule about division by 9. Of course, time still has to be taken to do these types of checks :doh:

[ThatGirl]

Natural at calculus and trig, loved physics, failed algebra three times

go figure

[murkrow]

I rock at algebra and suck at everything else.

Though I don't rock that hard.

[ThatGirl]

I rock at algebra and suck at everything else.



Want to plan world domination with me?

[murkrow]

I would but then we'd need to have sex.

[ThatGirl]

Dont forget who calls the shots

[murkrow]

Both of us...

Aren't you paying attention?!

[Eric B]

Here's a couple of examples of understanding the proerties of numbers:

Which are divisible by 3, and what is a quick way to figure it out?

336391303
255141822

Which is divisible by 11?

1111111
4841001

And which process is used in knowing the shortcuts to figure them out?

[Uytuun]

Maths is a mystery to me. I am currently working in a hypermarket, filling the shelves and it is high school maths class all over. People give me one-action instructions, but they never explain the big picture or the general principles on which the system is built. With maths, I always felt like we were operating in a vacuum, that there was nothing to link the different types of maths together and that it was arbitrary. I couldn't find any kind of logic in maths. No doubt this simply means that I'm less gifted at figuring out the links on my own, but I do think that a different approach in teaching it might have worked better for me (e.g. explain how the symbolic language of maths works, don't just throw letters at me and make me do exercises)

I'm rather fascinated by it now and feel better equipped to tackle it, so I may try to teach it myself a little bit again. If I can do philosophy and linguistics I should be able to deal with maths.

I personally can handle mathematical logic pretty well, but I'm horrible at doing math.

I think I might be like this as well. Maybe.

[Evan]

i don't think you can conclude any causal relation between direction of thinking and overall math ability. it all gets so convoluted since all four functions are all interplaying at all points in time.

i, for one, scored consistently higher in math (i never got less than 95% on a math test in high school, and no one ever averaged as high in test scores as i did in any math/physics/compsci class) than any T, even those that ended up at caltech and MIT. it would seem that pure Te would be better than pure Ti; it would also seem that pure Ne would be better than pure Ni. it would also seem that NTs would be best. these assumptions are merely stereotypes. i had NTs asking me to help them cheat, etc.

yes, math ability is correlated to how well Thinking is used (and Intuition for problems that require more than pure deductive logic). but that doesn't necessarily mean Ts are better than Fs. it also doesn't mean Ns are better than Ss.

i don't like these threads.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

yes, math ability is correlated to how well Thinking is used (and Intuition for problems that require more than pure deductive logic). but that doesn't necessarily mean Ts are better than Fs. it also doesn't mean Ns are better than Ss.

i don't like these threads.

MBTI is about preference rather than ability. I wouldn't say that T's are better than F's at math. However I would say that T's are more likely to choose a career that uses a lot of math (e.g. engineer) compared to F's.

[runvardh]

Math... I tought it to myself for grade 11 and 12.

[CzeCze]

I think Ns are more inclined to appreciate and be more apt at geometry than either arithmetic or algebra.

Eek, I always did poorly at Geometry and never made it through pre-Calc. I think the Ne actually hindered me because I hated having to do that 'step by step explain how A gets to B' thing. I think sometimes I would get it (and a lot of times I didn't) and it seemed unecessarily tedious. I never really got the point of parabolas. I honestly would space out for the first few months of class and then realize that I had no idea what was going on in class anymore. Didn't get it.

I'm very much a visual person in other areas, but to be visual and spatial in science and math is hard for me. I took AP Bio as a junior and got a passing score on the AP Bio exam, but so much of what I studied was completely foreign to me. Like 'showing the DNA' of plants. I'm also not that hot at drafting.

I also never realized how hands on science is. My math teacher said she wanted to be a scientist until college and they had to do so much manual stuff -- like make their own droppers and carry around a dessicator and keep the contents constantly in motion. She would get so frustrated because she couldn't make her droppers and she would end up throwing the dessicator against the wall (on 'accident' she said). She also burned herself a couple times. So she switched to math. :laugh:

I always did better in algebra. It makes more sense and I actually enjoy it. Maybe I'm just too linear when it comes to math.

My arithematic is pretty good -- at least according to the brain video games I play. :holy: Also, I was super nerdy (I keeps it realz) in highschool and would do 'Brain Bowl' and I could calculate in my head those 'sales' and 'real life' math problems much faster than anyone on my team which was comprised of classic NT math nerds taking AP Calc II.

[Evan]

Everyone's looking for these generalities, and they'll never apply on a person-to-person level.

Unless you say something like "ENPs like to make connections as new data becomes available", which is just restating the definition of Ne.