No Thought?

[ThatGirl]

What is easier to dispose of, thought or feeling?

When you find that no other mental solution is available have you ever rationalized a thought into a feeling because it was easier to dispose of that way? Was the thought then complete or accepted?

[murkrow]

What is easier to dispose of, thought or feeling?
Probably feeling. I have watched even feelers shut down their feelings and act "rationally" they usually feel very proud of themselves after.

It's pretty fuckin' hard to go on feelings without thought, the only time I can see it happening is sexual situations but even then I think it through.

I'm always thinking and not always feeling.

Hmmmm...

I'm curious about your motivation for this question, because I really can't come up with a worthwhile response.


When you find that no other mental solution is available have you ever rationalized a thought into a feeling because it was easier to dispose of that way? Was the thought then complete or accepted?
No, I've never done that.

I've very often turned feelings into thoughts though.

[Jack Flak]

This thread, in other words: "Are you T or F?" I'm T.

[murkrow]

This thread, in other words: "Are you T or F?" I'm T.

No, because as I said feelers will often suppress their feelings to rely on "reason".

[Jack Flak]

No, because as I said feelers will often suppress their feelings to rely on "reason".
I approve of your quotation marks.

[disregard]

Somebody get these guys laid.

[Jack Flak]

disregard makes an interesting point.

[murkrow]

Very "reasonable".

[ThatGirl]

I know people generally rationalize feeling into thought I was wondering if anyone ever relied on the opposite pattern and with the notion of supression where does one have greater control. Is it the same for T and F?

[Jack Flak]

^That's exactly how I define the T/F decision when speaking to a layman. Which rules you?

[ThatGirl]

I rationalize thought in to thought or feeling into thought. Lately I have rationalized thought into feeling just because it was easier to dipsose of that way without obsessing on solution.

What does that mean?

[Jack Flak]

You're INFP.

Wait, I mean "You're a girl." Sorry. :)

[disregard]

What exactly do you mean when you say you "rationalise thought into feeling"?

Give me an example.

[murkrow]

I know people generally rationalize feeling into thought I was wondering if anyone ever relied on the opposite pattern and with the notion of supression where does one have greater control. Is it the same for T and F?

So you're saying that most people can take feelings and rationalize them away, right?

Is your question whether people can take thoughts, make feelings of them and then subsequently rationalize the newly mutated feelings away?


oh, I didn't read page 2.

Okay so...

if you can do this then you are really fucking yourself over in my mind.

How can you sleep knowing you've sidestepped logically conquerable issues?

[Jack Flak]

That makes some good sense to me murkrow, I think I've seen that. *puts another book on the wisdom shelf*

[ThatGirl]

You are in a situation with no visible solution so you take a dive and rationalize a feeling to give you a basis for closure because feeling is easier to end than solution is to find

[murkrow]

You are in a situation with no visible solution

I can't think of a situation like this which isn't emotionally based.

And even then it could probably be decoded and dealt with.

*pulls his chair in closer and places hand softly on your shoulder*

:) Did somebody hurt your feewings?

[ThatGirl]

I didn't see them as logically conquerable with limited information

[disregard]

You are in a situation with no visible solution
Okay... you have me...
so you take a dive and rationalize a feeling
lost me

So you did have a feeling to begin with.. right?

You made it sound, at first, like you only had thought.. and "made up" a feeling to deal with the thought...

But it seems to be the other way around.

[ThatGirl]

I can't think of a situation like this which isn't emotionally based.

And even then it could probably be decoded and dealt with.

*pulls his chair in closer and places hand softly on your shoulder*

:) Did somebody hurt your feewings?

I like whoever said "Never touch the ENTP"

[Jack Flak]

You are in a situation with no visible solution so you take a dive and rationalize a feeling to give you a basis for closure because feeling is easier to end than solution is to find
Hmm. It's human nature. I've never been an F, but I assume we all do that sometimes.

[Jack Flak]

I like whoever said "Never touch the ENTP"
Was me. You posted "Genius" but deleted it. *sadness*

[ThatGirl]

Things that DONT MAKE SENSE. Logically. Limited information. Jam doored effect of thought. Escape from thought through justification of feeling. Feeling is irrelevant therefore easily disposed of. Thought put neatly on the self in an attend to later box to be opened only if there is an introduction of new information.

[murkrow]

Please tell us the unsolvable problem!

[ThatGirl]

Was me. You posted "Genius" but deleted it. *sadness*

LOL! sorry about that. Probably had another good reason for it like whatever else was written with it. Thought stuck though

[Jack Flak]

LOL! sorry about that. Probably had another good reason for it like whatever else was written with it. Thought stuck though
Oic. It was probably the "And the rest of you are idiots" part. J/K it totally didn't say that.

[ThatGirl]

Its not about me. I am just saying has anyone ever used the reverse process. Everyone always rationalizes feeling to thought then it stands to reason one could do the opposite. Then I wondered the motivation behind the act and could see it as a potential distraction from thought

[murkrow]

I rationalize thought in to thought or feeling into thought. Lately I have rationalized thought into feeling just because it was easier to dipsose of that way without obsessing on solution.


Its not about me.

:doh:

[ThatGirl]

feeling a gutter for unwanted thought

[ThatGirl]

:doh:

concept sparring here I'm sick of talking about myself

[ThatGirl]

Oic. It was probably the "And the rest of you are idiots" part. J/K it totally didn't say that.

I wouldn't have been surprised if it did

It would have been a joke of course

[murkrow]

I'm just curious how you can turn a thought into a feeling.

Thoughts are thoroughly understood and witnessed. You don't ejaculate thoughts like you do with feelings, you need to build them brick by brick.

How can you look at a thought which you have built yourself and then make a feeling of it?

[ThatGirl]

it is said that ENTPs have been known to outsmart ourselves at times. Seriously you have never done this?

Well in all my years this is the first time I have thought to do that it could be revolutionary.

[ThatGirl]

perception feeling can be witnessed by an objective stance if one chooses to see only that and ignore other aspects. it simplifies the solution

[murkrow]

perception feeling can be witnessed by an objective stance if one chooses to see only that and ignore other aspects. it simplifies the solution

That's making a thought of a feeling.

I'm on the same page with you here.

[ThatGirl]

no solution is the creation of feeling as a scapegoat for thought

it takes focus

[murkrow]

I'm going to level with you.

I don't understand what the fuck you're saying.

[ThatGirl]

damn it its so clear to me

manipulation of thought to feeling

[murkrow]

I'm trying to get it.

write a longer post explaining it clearly.

[heart]

My thoughts turn into pumpkins at midnight.

[Jack Flak]

She's talking about letting F rule you and ignoring rationality. Fs do it all the time, and I think everyone does a bit.

[murkrow]

Yeah that only happens to me when sex is involved.

[ThatGirl]

She's talking about letting F rule you and ignoring rationality. Fs do it all the time, and I think everyone does a bit.

For the rational purpose of feeling being easier to dispose of than thought

So this isn't new?

Its like laundering thoughts into feelings disposing of it then back to thought

[Jack Flak]

My best assessment is honestly that estrogen is getting the better of you. Possibly wait until some chicas get online and drag them in here.

[ThatGirl]

goodnight

[murkrow]

Damn, I was so betting on a 3 way.

[BlackOp]

I drink so I can feel.....that has to count for something. As a fatter of fact, I feel like drinking another beer now that I'm thinking about it.

[BlackOp]

.

[Gen]

Its called repression. You can't deal with the situation, it makes you unhappy and so you decide "It doesn't matter, its just emotion anyway!" and then bury it.

Actually, not very healthy. :)

[colmena]

This thread makes me want to die.

[cafe]

Your thoughts effect your feelings effect your thoughts effect your feelings and vice-versa. Cognitive therapy relies on this concept. I'm not sure whether it is type related or not. The only observation I can make with much certainty is that, at least with my NT husband and I, it is easier for him to suppress emotions and just do what needs to be done, while I need to process the emotions before I can really deal with a situation. Both qualities have their pros and cons and we consider ourselves fortunate because having both allows us to work well as a team and be strong while the other is weak.

I think the difference you may be looking for is one of closure, though. If I can't find closure through reasoning out why a negative situation has occurred and how to prevent it from occurring in the future, I find it very difficult to let it go and move on.

[mlittrell]

what I tend to do is apply reason to what is causing an emotion and that generally kills it

[ThatGirl]

Analagy Check it out.

Youve been working on a 1,500,000,000 piece 3D puzzle of the solar system and everything looks wonderfull. You are down to your last three peices but you keep checking over the puzzle and there are only two open holes. So you keep reasessing the puzzle and reassessing the puzzle. You try combinations of two of the last three pieces and not of them fit together. But there is the rest of the puzzle, minus the three that dont fit anywhere. You start to read the box, or think you make have gotten somewhere there were two identically cut pieces by chance, and you may have used the wrong one throwing the entire puzzle off. Every solutions nets the same result so finally you say. I can't do it because I am tired and not thinking clearly. So you dont allow your self to focus on the puzzle until you get rest. Which may be a while because now that you think its because your tired your not feeling tired anymore or never were or whatever. But you have shifted focus away from the puzzle which could have its own bennifitial elements to it rather than completion or perhaps the completeion will come from distance.

This is probably the first time I have tangibly allowed myself to not follow a thought through to completetion. And yes it feels like cheating. Noone has done this?

[runvardh]

^^^ I do this when a video game gets frustrating, but I do it to keep from blowing up.

[murkrow]

Analagy Check it out.

Youve been working on a 1,500,000,000 piece 3D puzzle of the solar system and everything looks wonderfull. You are down to your last three peices but you keep checking over the puzzle and there are only two open holes. So you keep reasessing the puzzle and reassessing the puzzle. You try combinations of two of the last three pieces and not of them fit together. But there is the rest of the puzzle, minus the three that dont fit anywhere. You start to read the box, or think you make have gotten somewhere there were two identically cut pieces by chance, and you may have used the wrong one throwing the entire puzzle off. Every solutions nets the same result so finally you say. I can't do it because I am tired and not thinking clearly. So you dont allow your self to focus on the puzzle until you get rest. Which may be a while because now that you think its because your tired your not feeling tired anymore or never were or whatever. But you have shifted focus away from the puzzle which could have its own bennifitial elements to it rather than completion or perhaps the completeion will come from distance.

This is probably the first time I have tangibly allowed myself to not follow a thought through to completetion. And yes it feels like cheating. Noone has done this?

You haven't turned anything into a feeling here.

Did that actually happen to you?

[Lateralus]

It sounds like you're talking about going with your gut.

[heart]

Wow, it's like a super Ne storm. I get these but I'd never actually attempt to type them out for public consumption. Usually means I need to lay off caffiene and get more sleep.

[ThatGirl]

Hm

[Jack Flak]

I got nothin' for ya, TG. *sends hugs and stuff*

[cafe]

Sometimes you have to give your conscious mind a break and let your subconscious work on the problem for awhile. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the pieces just don't exist. *shrug*

[substitute]

I find when you're tired or drunk enough, you can dispose of either, first at will and then both, involuntarily.

A good ten years of relentless labour without support or respite, for kicks in the teeth in return (aka single parenthood) should sort you out.

Went a long way to solving my insomnia issues. Yep. Abject exhaustion, just what the doctor ordered! :alttongue:

[Jack Flak]

I find when you're tired or drunk enough, you can dispose of either, first at will and then both, involuntarily.

A good ten years of relentless labour without support or respite, for kicks in the teeth in return (aka single parenthood) should sort you out.

Went a long way to solving my insomnia issues. Yep. Abject exhaustion, just what the doctor ordered! :alttongue:
Sounds like my "one year hard labor" cure-all. It works.

[Provoker]

What is easier to dispose of, thought or feeling?

When you find that no other mental solution is available have you ever rationalized a thought into a feeling because it was easier to dispose of that way? Was the thought then complete or accepted?

Interesting post. I am very skeptical of the thought-feeling dichotomy. I have felt a thought and have thought a feeling. I could fall in love with an idea. Does that make me a thinker or a feeler? Personally, I don't think it's so black and white - it's much more complex.

To answer your queston - yes, I have rationalized a thought into a feeling probably out of some base instinct to self-preservation. It is uneconomical for the human mind to have unproductive ideas circulating in one's head. Better to assign the cluster of thoughts a feeling, and know that feeling for the future to avoid repeat mistakes (something intuition will in effect take care of).

[Gen]

Analagy Check it out.

Youve been working on a 1,500,000,000 piece 3D puzzle of the solar system and everything looks wonderfull. You are down to your last three peices but you keep checking over the puzzle and there are only two open holes. So you keep reasessing the puzzle and reassessing the puzzle. You try combinations of two of the last three pieces and not of them fit together. But there is the rest of the puzzle, minus the three that dont fit anywhere. You start to read the box, or think you make have gotten somewhere there were two identically cut pieces by chance, and you may have used the wrong one throwing the entire puzzle off. Every solutions nets the same result so finally you say. I can't do it because I am tired and not thinking clearly. So you dont allow your self to focus on the puzzle until you get rest. Which may be a while because now that you think its because your tired your not feeling tired anymore or never were or whatever. But you have shifted focus away from the puzzle which could have its own bennifitial elements to it rather than completion or perhaps the completeion will come from distance.

This is probably the first time I have tangibly allowed myself to not follow a thought through to completetion. And yes it feels like cheating. Noone has done this?

You've been talking online to this guy who is definitely 1 in 1,500,000,000 so you decide to meet each other and when you do everything looks wonderful. You're down to your last three days before he goes home and you both realize that this can't work: your lives are entirely separate and it would take enormous effort for one of you to move closer. And for what? Lust? So he goes and you don't know what to do. You think of ways to be close temporarily but your job is important to your life and his is in his life and most relationships fail anyway. Right? Every possible solution nets the same result, you have to sacrifice something of your life just to find out if it really does have any potential. So, emotionally exhausted you say "I can't do it because I'm too tired. I need a break. We have to stop." So you stop and you plan to go back but you know you may not because its just such a heartbreak and so frustrating. There's no solution, its just a feeling, completely irrational with no solution...

Yes, I've tried the repression route, and failed.

Then again, on smaller "puzzles" repression is much much easier. Its still not healthy.