Palin and Earmarks: Obvious decepton.

[ajblaise]

Just another reason why you should take what the Republicans say about her with a grain of salt.


ANCHORAGE — As she introduced herself to the nation Friday as the Republican vice-presidential candidate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin touted her record as a reformer who worked to end the "abuses of earmark spending in Congress."

But earmarks have never been a dirty word in Alaska, a huge state dotted with small communities that have enormous dollar needs for sewers, roads and other projects.

Instead, earmarks — pet projects that members of Congress fund but that no federal agency has requested — have become a mainstay of political life here, and one that Palin embraced from early on in her career as a mayor of Wasilla to the governor's mansion in Juneau.

Just this year, she sent to Sen. Ted. Stevens, R-Alaska, a proposal for 31 earmarks totaling $197 million — more, per person, than any other state

Politics | Palin embraced earmarks as small-town mayor, Alaska governor | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008154664_palin03.html)

[Jack Flak]

I should start a "Why Obama sucks and scares people who actually think" thread, but I don't have the energy to deal with all that stress atm. Let's just note our mutual dissatisfaction.

[pure_mercury]

Alaska's state government is basically a wild pool party fueled with federal money, and cleaned up with oil money.

[sassafrassquatch]

I think Republicans see it as liberating money from the clutches of socialist government. They're putting that cash back into the market which can spend it better than the government can. Spending is only bad when Democrats do it because they're communists.

[pure_mercury]

I think Republicans see it as liberating money from the clutches of socialist government. They're putting that cash back into the market which can spend it better than the government can. Spending is only bad when Democrats do it because they're communists.

You think like a partisan fool.

[disregard]

He was being facetious, I think.

[sassafrassquatch]

You think like a partisan fool.

NO U

[Enyo]

I think Republicans see it as liberating money from the clutches of socialist government. They're putting that cash back into the market which can spend it better than the government can. Spending is only bad when Democrats do it because they're communists.

Let me correct that for you:

"Spending is only bad when Democrats do it because they're communists. bleeding socialists."

:cheese:

[pure_mercury]

Democrats would be just as bad in a corruption-happy state. It's not as if they are particularly good at turning down money from special interests. This isn't a partisan issue, unless you're talking about throwing both of the major parties out of power.

[ajblaise]

Democrats would be just as bad in a corruption-happy state. It's not as if they are particularly good at turning down money from special interests. This isn't a partisan issue, unless you're talking about throwing both of the major parties out of power.

Well, in this case it's a Palin/Republican issue, because they are being misleading or lying when talking about her and earmarks.

[Enyo]

Democrats would be just as bad in a corruption-happy state. It's not as if they are particularly good at turning down money from special interests. This isn't a partisan issue, unless you're talking about throwing both of the major parties out of power.

*sigh* Only in my dreams. I'd love to see one of the third parties (preferably the Libertarians) unseat one of the major parties.

[Jack Flak]

*sigh* Only in my dreams. I'd love to see one of the third parties (preferably the Libertarians) unseat one of the major parties.
+1. Idealism and pragmatism are strange bedfellows. I know them well.

[pure_mercury]

Well, in this case it's a Palin/Republican issue, because they are being misleading or lying when talking about her and earmarks.

I'd like to see a similar thread about Obama and his lies thus far from an Obama fan.

[ajblaise]

I'd like to see a similar thread about Obama and his lies thus far from an Obama fan.

Why would any Obama fan make an anti-Obama thread?

[Jack Flak]

Why would any Obama fan make an anti-Obama thread?
*shrug* Why would an America fan want an anti-America president? *adopts shaolin kung fu stance to ward off impending blows*

[pure_mercury]

Why would any Obama fan make an anti-Obama thread?

To show they aren't partisan fools, and admit that he has actually lied to the public? You know, to be honest with themselves?

[Magic Poriferan]

To show they aren't partisan fools, and admit that he has actually lied to the public? You know, to be honest with themselves?

Good point.

Mind giving us your critique of Libertarianism?

[ajblaise]

To show they aren't partisan fools, and admit that he has actually lied to the public? You know, to be honest with themselves?

I support Obama, and I'm not out to make him look bad, I want people to vote for him.

And what is this lie you are talking about?

[ajblaise]

*shrug* Why would an America fan want an anti-America president? *adopts shaolin kung fu stance to ward off impending blows*

What anti-American presidential hopeful are we talking about? If I hated a country, I probably wouldn't want to be president of it.

[Jack Flak]

What anti-American presidential hopeful are we talking about? If I hated a country, I probably wouldn't want to be president of it.
Obama. (I hate politics, but it's a necessary evil.)

[ajblaise]

Obama. (I hate politics, but it's a necessary evil.)

I can't tell if you're being serious. You think he hates America? Why?

[Jack Flak]

Because...*stomps around for a while* Shut up! lol. Just look at his rhetoric. CHANGE everything. There are great things about America, and Obama doesn't want to hear about it.

[Magic Poriferan]

Because...*stomps around for a while* Shut up! lol. Just look at his rhetoric. CHANGE everything. There are great things about America, and Obama doesn't want to hear about it.

?

No politician ever goes into office saying "let's leave stuff the same!" and there's good reason for that. With how pessimistic people are feeling right now, it would be especially silly for one to talk about that. It's not just an applealing ploy, it's actually a practical assessment of priorities. I wouldn't want anyone that wants to keep things the same right now.

[Jack Flak]

They say they don't want change whenever things are looking up (result of things mostly outside their control anyway).

[Magic Poriferan]

They say they don't want change whenever things are looking up (result of things mostly outside their control anyway).

Hah. They just call it "progress" instead of "change" but the first one implies the second. People don't win by promising more of the same, and especially not by pining over the past.

That being said, of course they are less likely to talk about change when things are looking up, because you don't fix what isn't broken. Now, whether or not things were as good as they looked... that's a different issue.

[Jack Flak]

We obviously have very different ideas about what the ideal should be, so must simply disagree forever.

[pure_mercury]

Good point.

Mind giving us your critique of Libertarianism?

I've been pretty vocal about some drawbacks of modern libertarian theory, have I not? Environmental policy can be incoherent (i.e., "sue everybody" isn't completely satisfactory). The LP has no interest in being a legitimate political force, and the one time they DO pick an establishment small-government conservative as a presidential candidate it's Bob Fucking Barr. Paleolibertarians are too hung up on tradition. Many libertarians are completely irascible and contrarian for its own sake. Some of the Beltway libertarians are too cozy with Big Business.

See, libertarianism is an ideological movement, so it's pretty tough to critique it as an adherent of it. However, I DO critique the negative traits I see of libertarians. I could do much better critiquing an individual (like, say, Ron Paul) than I would critiquing what I believe. However, Obama and McCain don't have purely ideological beliefs. There are plenty of examples of each saying one thing and doing another. Even if you are a fan, you can look at their records and see that. I'd love for someone to say, "You know, I know that Obama portrayed NAFTA (and, by extension, Hillary Clinton) as bad for America, and that's not true, but I still like him, anyway." You never get that.

[Lateralus]

I'd love for someone to say, "You know, I know that Obama portrayed NAFTA (and, by extension, Hillary Clinton) as bad for America, and that's not true, but I still like him, anyway." You never get that.
Yep, in the other Palin thread, I made a point to say that I didn't like what she was saying about "Big Oil". I haven't seen an Obama supporter say one negative thing about the guy.

[lowtech redneck]

I can't tell if you're being serious. You think he hates America? Why?

Probably an accumulation of little things like attending Jeremiah Wright's church for twenty years, being married to a woman who has not been proud of her country in her adult life untill now, hanging out with admitted and unrepentant domestic terrorists, being embarrased to wear flag lapel pins, belittling just about every aspect of American culture that sets us apart from other rich democracies, etc.

Basically, one gets the impression that Obama loves what he thinks America has the potential to be (basically a more multi-ethnic Europe with vastly more resources at the disposal of an enlightened government through which progressive advances can be made) rather than love his country for the things that set America apart from other countries. No one is arguing that "American Exceptionalism" is always good, but I would much prefer a President that thought the balance was on the side of the United States.

I would not be willing to say Obama "hates" America, but I get the distinct impression that the United States is simply a canvas and materials for Obama to work with.

[kuranes]

I'd like to see a similar thread about Obama and his lies thus far from an Obama fan.

I remember creating a thread about "criticizing your own platform" on INTPC a couple years ago. And I started it off by criticizing some liberal talking points, but the thread had very little participation. Still, I agree it's a good idea. Perhaps I'll start another one here.

Meanwhile, here is the latest article criticizing Bush . ;)
BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'spying' on Iraqi leadership (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7600077.stm)

[pure_mercury]

I remember creating a thread about "criticizing your own platform" on INTPC a couple years ago. And I started it off by criticizing some liberal talking points, but the thread had very little participation. Still, I agree it's a good idea. Perhaps I'll start another one here.

Meanwhile, here is the latest article criticizing Bush . ;)
BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'spying' on Iraqi leadership (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7600077.stm)

Yeah, but a "Criticize Bush!" thread would be way too easy at this point.

[Enyo]

Yeah, but a "Criticize Bush!" thread would be way too easy at this point.

*snarks* Isn't he sitting at a 29% approval rating? Something like the lowest approval rating of all time?

[pure_mercury]

*snarks* Isn't he sitting at a 29% approval rating? Something like the lowest approval rating of all time?

Lowest since WWII, I know that much. Congress, too. They managed to have a 9% approval rating. 9%!!!

Rasmussen Reports (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance/congressional_performance)

[ygolo]

Lowest since WWII, I know that much. Congress, too. They managed to have a 9% approval rating. 9%!!!

Rasmussen Reports (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance/congressional_performance)

For complete truth in advertising, it is the Rasmussen Report (look at the ads that are on the site for an indication of bias), and if you include "fair" the number jumps up to 45%. 51% say "poor." They've done little to resists the bush government, so it is a fairly well deserved low rating.

Bush ratings of people who "disapprove" are in the 60s.
Bush: Job Ratings (http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm)

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I'd love for someone to say, "You know, I know that Obama portrayed NAFTA (and, by extension, Hillary Clinton) as bad for America, and that's not true, but I still like him, anyway." You never get that.

Here you go Merc:

You know, I know that Obama portrayed NAFTA as bad for America, and that's not true, but I still like him, anyway. Also I think labor unions are mostly an outdated concept.

[pure_mercury]

Here you go Merc:

You know, I know that Obama portrayed NAFTA as bad for America, and that's not true, but I still like him, anyway. Also I think labor unions are mostly an outdated concept.

Hey, it's honest. It's way better than suggesting that Obama is some type of Santa Claus/Messiah cross-breed, or that McCain will cast a steely glare across the Atlantic and every terrorist on Earth with immediately lay down their arms and become Methodists.

[pure_mercury]

Oh, here we go. Want some bashing of fellow "libertarians?" Here is an interview in Reason with Libertarian Party VP candidate Wayne Allyn Root. Mr. Root, like Bob Barr, was a Republican until a few years ago. He remains a complete blowhard. Seriously, this guy makes himself sound like a Human Facepalm Smiley.

Wayne Allyn Root's Million-Dollar Challenge: The Libertarian VP candidate wants Barack Obama to release his grades - Reason Magazine (http://www.reason.com/news/show/128461.html)

[Lateralus]

Haha, that interview's pretty bad. I didn't even know that guy was the LP VP nominee. That's how closely I follow the LP.

[pure_mercury]

Haha, that interview's pretty bad. I didn't even know that guy was the LP VP nominee. That's how closely I follow the LP.

Yeah, the LP ticket is two jerks who were Republicans through Bush's first term in office. They just never get their shit together in that party. I read that interview and felt like the young Alvy Singer in Annie Hall, when he was being regaled by Joey Nichols: *turn away, sigh* "What an asshole."

[Maabus1999]

Just another reason why you should take what the Republicans say about her with a grain of salt.



Politics | Palin embraced earmarks as small-town mayor, Alaska governor | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008154664_palin03.html)

You think the Democrats are different? They both are clones of each other.

[Lateralus]

I don't think the LP will ever get their shit together. It's a party based on fierce individualism. You'll never see the LP follow someone like Democrats follow Obama or Republicans followed Reagan.

[pure_mercury]

Well, here is an update: Bob Barr has offered the LP vice presidential nomination to Ron Paul. Wayne Allyn Root has offered to step aside for him.

Barr asks Ron Paul to be his running mate | ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/09/10/barr_paul_veep.html)

[Oberon]

Just another reason why you should take what the Republicans say about her with a grain of salt.


Pardon me, but it seems to me that one should always take what a party says about its candidates with a grain of salt.

[pure_mercury]

Here is great proof that Bob Barr isn't a complete asshole. He was doing a comedy routine at the "Funniest Celebrity" contest in Washington, D.C. His one-liners were OK, but this one was great:

"As a Libertarian, I can really picture a world in which there's no war. But George W. Bush would probably invade that, too."