J or P?

[Hmm]

Yeah, I stole this thread title from someone else. :P

So I've been thinking today.....

and I began to wonder if J's and P's can get along when they really get to know each other.

What say you?

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I stole this thread title from someone else. :P

So I've been thinking today.....

and I began to wonder if J's and P's can get along when they really get to know each other.

What say you?

Yes?

I mean, I have lots of working and enjoyable relationships with J people.

[ygolo]

I believe Js and Ps can get along quite well. There are a lot of examples. Actually, it seems that, in romantic relationships, it is more common for a J-P pairing than a J-J or P-P pairing.

[Mempy]

and I began to wonder if J's and P's can get along when they really get to know each other.

*looks horrified* No. No...

NOOOOOOOO!!!

[Jack Flak]

SILLY THREAD ALERT! *sirens*

Of course Ps and Js can get along. I think the sky might be blue, anyone want to jump on that grenade?

[norepinephrine]

SILLY THREAD ALERT! *sirens*

Of course Ps and Js can get along. I think the sky might be blue, anyone want to jump on that grenade?

Define "blue".

Oh never mind, TGIF.

[INTJMom]

Yeah, I stole this thread title from someone else. :P

So I've been thinking today.....

and I began to wonder if J's and P's can get along when they really get to know each other.

What say you?
Yes.
I am a very strong J and my husband is a very strong P and we have managed to get a long just fine for over 28 years.

Getting along with other people requires us to put down our own selfish desires and defer to the other person sometimes.
No one can get through life satisfactorily always getting their own way.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I married a J, so it worked for us. :)

[Edahn]

You can get along with anybody if they're normal and if you're open minded.

[FDG]

Yeah, no problem for me getting along with perceiving types. Unless they're late. But J types can be late, too.

[Magic Poriferan]

Yeah, I stole this thread title from someone else. :P

So I've been thinking today.....

and I began to wonder if J's and P's can get along when they really get to know each other.

What say you?

I have very good reasons to believe that they can.
And I hope they can. :(

[Victor]

You can get along with anybody if they're normal and if you're open minded.

The problem is the normal socially exclude the subnormal and the abnormal.

They exclude them with a visceral viciousness.

And it is the visceral viciousness that betrays the fear, hatred and contempt the normal have for the subnormal and the abnormal.

And what is most interesting is that the normal socially exclude the subnormal and the abnormal from the moral high ground.

And the moral high ground acts as an unconscious psychological defence against knowing their own fear, viciousness and conformity.

It is a closed, self perpetuating circle.

There is nothing open minded about it.

[heart]

And the moral high ground acts as an unconscious psychological defence against knowing their own fear, viciousness and conformity.

Anti-conformity just for the sheer sake of being anti-conformist is as bad as conformning for the sake of conforming. Neither has control of their own mind.

[01011010]

SILLY THREAD ALERT! *sirens*

Of course Ps and Js can get along. I think the sky might be blue, anyone want to jump on that grenade?

lol

It's kinda clear and shows off different colors depending on atmospheric pressure, light waves etc.

J's and P's can definitely get along.

[runvardh]

I almost find it easier to get along with Js than it is for me to get along with other Ps...

[Hmm]

You can get along with anybody if they're normal and if you're open minded.

What is normal?

[substitute]

Me and my close ISTJ friend get along very well and have great conversations. However, if we go to any subject either of us really cares about, we nearly always strongly and fundamentally disagree. But, no matter how much we annoy each other (neither of us will give way), within 24 hours it's all forgotten and we're laughing again.

My INTJ and I are like brothers and the love of my life was an ENTJ. Though, the only types I can think of more than one individual example of me just not being able to reconcile with them at all are FJ's. I think I'm getting closer to figuring out how to conduct a civil acquaintanceship with them but I'm not quite there yet. There are quiet a few individual FJ's that I really like and respect a lot, and want to be friendlier with, but my experiences with the others and the shades in them that remind me of them, basically, have me just scared to even try... working on that though...

My mom and step dad are ISTP and ESFJ and they're a very happy couple since 23 years. So yeah, silly question really!!

[iamWongtheGreat]

Most of my friends are Ps - which leads them inevitably to responding with "i'm fine with anything" when we're planning stuff. It infuriates me to no end!
Oh well. I guess we J types aren't perfect either. Ps probably find us too bossy. Go figure.

[substitute]

Most of my friends are Ps - which leads them inevitably to responding with "i'm fine with anything" when we're planning stuff. It infuriates me to no end!
Oh well. I guess we J types aren't perfect either. Ps probably find us too bossy. Go figure.

Sometimes it's the reverse though. Sometimes a certain J I know will SAY she doesn't mind, but only because her Fe doesn't want her to appear bossy. She does have a preference, but says she doesn't. So she forces me to choose where we eat, say, and then sits there like a wet weekend the whole way through. Then later tells me she didn't want to go to that place and it makes her feel uncomfortable but she just went there because I suggested it, then accuses me of being bossy! :steam:

I've learned now to counter this with insistance that she chooses where we eat and *I* don't mind if she's bossy :laugh:

[FDG]

Most of my friends are Ps - which leads them inevitably to responding with "i'm fine with anything" when we're planning stuff. It infuriates me to no end!

I'm a J and I often am really fine with anything. There's more important things to think about (like conquering the wordl bla bla usual ENTJ stuff) than where to eat tonight :D

[Mycroft]

I get along fine with the Ps who don't make it their mission to help me see the supposed error of my ways and "loosen [me] up".

[Victor]

What is normal?

Normal, dear Hmm, is easy to measure. And when you graph your measurements they turn out to be shaped like a bell - with almost everyone in the middle and only the very tiniest number at either end.

So normal is a statistical term and almost everyone is normal. But this is disguised in a society where everyone says, "I am an individual". And where it is just not cool to be normal.

I mean who wants to be Norma Normal?

So we have a situation where it is not cool to be normal but we socially exclude the tiny number of the subnormal and the abnormal.

This is called cognitive dissonance.

And if we can tolerate the mental pain of cognitive dissonance, we can learn something new.

[Mycroft]

Normal, dear Hmm, is easy to measure. And when you graph your measurements they turn out to be shaped like a bell - with almost everyone in the middle and only the very tiniest number at either end.


What are the units of measurement?

[Victor]

What are the units of measurement?

In measuring normality we are not measuring a quantity, rather we are making a comparison.

So the units of measurement can be relatively arbitrary, as long they are constant in all measurements, so that a reliable and valid comparison can be made.

What is extraordinary is that almost all human characteristics, and I mean almost all, fall under the same graph, called a Bell Curve.

That means that almost all of us are normal.

This makes evolutionary sense as we only need a very tiny number of the subnormal and the abnormal to enable us to adapt to a changed environment.

And we need a large number of normal people now who are adapted to our present environment.

And the social exclusion of the subnormal and the abnormal makes sense as a way of restricting their ability to reproduce until the environment changes sufficiently for them to be fit.

[Mycroft]

In measuring normality we are not measuring a quantity, rather we are making a comparison.

So the units of measurement can be relatively arbitrary, as long they are constant in all measurements, so that a reliable and valid comparison can be made.

True enough, but to assemble a graph, you're going to need units to assign to the X and Y axes. The Y axis is simple enough; the number of people. For the X axis I propose "normalcrons".

The test could have questions like:

When was the last time you read a book of 300 or more pages?

a.) Within the past week.
b.) Within the past month.
c.) Within the past year.
d.) Fuck you, man, when was the last time you got laid?

Note to those who selected option d: please refrain from turning around and totally high-fiving your buddies during the designated testing period.

The responses would be weighted as such:

a: 1 point
b: 2 points
c: 3 points
d: 4 points

The questions and responses would be selected such the number of points equivalent to an equal number of "b" and "c" responses would be the center of the bell curve.

[Victor]

True enough, but to assemble a graph, you're going to need units to assign to the X and Y axes. The Y axis is simple enough; the number of people. For the X axis I propose "normalcrons".

The test could have questions like:

When was the last time you read a book of 300 or more pages?

a.) Within the past week.
b.) Within the past month.
c.) Within the past year.
d.) Fuck you, man, when was the last time you got laid?

Note to those who selected option d: please refrain from turning around and totally high-fiving your buddies during the designated testing period.

The responses would be weighted as such:

a: 1 point
b: 2 points
c: 3 points
d: 4 points

The questions and responses would be selected such the number of points equivalent to an equal number of "b" and "c" responses would be the center of the bell curve.

I don't understand psychometrics so I can't really say.

But I suspect on a Bell Curve you are looking at a large number of points randomly selected.

How you gather the data would be interesting. I guess you would want to avoid your own biases and perhaps you would want some kind of double blind.

And what you are looking for in the data is comparison - so you would need an excellent grasp of statistics.

And of course the last thing you would ever do is test yourself because your data would be contaminated from the word go.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us testing ourselves. And it is fun, social and free. So why not?

[INTJMom]

I get along fine with the Ps who don't make it their mission to help me see the supposed error of my ways and "loosen [me] up".
I know, right?!
I LIKE being this way.
I would hate being a "P"!



(Of course, if I was a "P" I know I technically would like it,
since it would be my preference,
but you know what I mean.
If you don't know what I mean,
you are an "S".)

[entropie]

I know, right?!
I LIKE being this way.
I would hate being a "P"!



(Of course, if I was a "P" I know I technically would like it,
since it would be my preference,
but you know what I mean.
If you don't know what I mean,
you are an "S".)

And if you do not like apple pie, you are a nazi !

[Mycroft]

And if you do not like apple pie, you are a nazi !

Since I've never once in my life seen a Nazi eating apple pie, this is clearly irrefutable.

[mlittrell]

lol to above post

and as far as my J friends go: 3 ENTJs, 2 ISFJs, 3 INFJs, 2 ISTJs, 1 ENFJs, 4 ESTJs, 1 ESFJ

so to answer your question, yes, Ps and Js can get along

that's off the top of my head at 1:12 in the morning

[Xander]

Considering that many Ps are quite obviously annoying and should be shot plus many of my friends and family are Js I'd say yes.

Personally I'm more likely to befriend a J than a P because at least you know what you've got without having to try and bring out the industrial tools to get at the interesting stuff. There's nothing more annoying to me than a habitually avoidant P!

[InaF3157]

Sometimes it's the reverse though. Sometimes a certain J I know will SAY she doesn't mind, but only because her Fe doesn't want her to appear bossy. She does have a preference, but says she doesn't. So she forces me to choose where we eat, say, and then sits there like a wet weekend the whole way through. Then later tells me she didn't want to go to that place and it makes her feel uncomfortable but she just went there because I suggested it, then accuses me of being bossy! :steam:

I've learned now to counter this with insistance that she chooses where we eat and *I* don't mind if she's bossy :laugh:
Argh . . . I had a picky ESTJ-friend pull this same thing. So half-way through she was clearly less than thrilled. I told her I refused to let her ruin it for me when she clearly had preferences she didn't express and I was the one who truly didn't care where we went. And then I ate my dinner with relish.
Err . . . Not the condiment, the 'tude.

[Gen]

Considering that many Ps are quite obviously annoying and should be shot plus many of my friends and family are Js I'd say yes.

Personally I'm more likely to befriend a J than a P because at least you know what you've got without having to try and bring out the industrial tools to get at the interesting stuff. There's nothing more annoying to me than a habitually avoidant P!

cuz you're a J!!! :D

[Xander]

cuz you're a J!!! :D
Some, of course, resist even the most thorough measures... this is what we, in the know, breed special cats for. Talk or your thighs get acupunctured into next week!!!

[Grayscale]

i like Js. i prefer to be the only anomaly in my environment, so i tend to be more comfortable around them in a "i like to know my boundaries so i can break them" sort of way.

i dont like when people "J me out", but that really has nothing to do with real J-types as much as someone exemplifying the more annoying of the stereotypes

like, you know, you have to put your dishes in the washer a certain way, or whatever. what if i dont want to take the mule tour once we're in mexico? i need to save my pesos for questionable looking street food

[Hmm]

This is on my mind again today. Still wondering.

Any personal experiences to share?

[Antisocial one]

Look at it this way.

In the case that they can get along this world would have collapsed long ago.

[Nocapszy]

The closest thing I have to a friend is a J.
So yes.

[Nocapszy]

Also, Hmm; for your consideration. (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/10898-p-j-muddling-5.html#post425571)

It's no worry if there's a might too much for you to grapple with -- I tend to get verbose when frustrated.

[Hmm]

Also, Hmm; for your consideration. (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/10898-p-j-muddling-5.html#post425571)

It's no worry if there's a might too much for you to grapple with -- I tend to get verbose when frustrated.

Thanks. I've just read a few posts of that and I can tell it's something that might help me. Why are you frustrated though?

[shortnsweet]

J's and P's getting along?
Is this some kind of a joke?

One time I had to talk to a J for business purposes. It was really bad. I have only associated with P's ever since.

[Hmm]

J's and P's getting along?
Is this some kind of a joke?

One time I had to talk to a J for business purposes. It was really bad. I have only associated with P's ever since.

How very J of you. ;)