Help me DROP this?

[ThatGirl]

Ok folks settle in and make yourself comfortable. Help me define this.

After the end of a six year relationship, by my choice, I stumbled across a man. This man was like six three, attractive, made over 100,000 a year, self motivated, strong willed, and intelligent ESTP. My first instinct with him was that he was a creep but I thought that was just the ex talking so I decided to stay open minded to possibilities. Before I even considered hanging out with him I had him take his personality test and ran a background check you know the full inquisition. He complied but told me that he knew I was the type that could easily scare men away with all the accusations to get to know you. I laughed it was true. He told me before hand that he was seeing two other women and I liked that because I felt it took the pressure off of me and he promised things would remain casual and uncomplicated. When we hung out it was always awesome, but tense. We were mentally set and he even inspired me to go to college something I always thought I was not cut out for but he helped make that a reality by simplifying the thought for me. When he was not around I wanted to see him more but when he was around I felt like I needed my space directly after our time together. Like an introvert the time spent with him made me want to retreat immediately until I was ready to come out again. Things remained pretty casual until I went through a rough spot regarding a court case I was involved in at the time. I let him see me break down and never wanted to face him again after that. I was embarrassed for not keeping it to myself but I managed to pull out of it and we still hung out. He often read my signals as I was not interested in him and I often read his the same I knew it would stay casual so I didn't understand why it started to get awkward. He was seeing other girls why would he care how I felt. When I would hang out with him I would say to myself would I want to wash his underwear the answer was no. I once told him that and he replied I was my own clothes. He was smooth.

Something wouldn't allow me to get too close to him and I honestly succeeded in not developing those kind of feelings for him but one day I said something rude to him and he went away to ignore me and we haven't talked since. This was very awkward so I tried to fix things like I always do but the guy shut down hard. I couldn't even get close enough to apologize and felt like a psycho for even trying and on top of it I didn't really care if it was the end of whatever we had. It was a relief but I still felt a little bad.

So this has been messing with my mind. We only hung out for six months or so and I seriously didn't want to be serious with him, I am pretty sure. But when I hurt his feelings It actually effected me and I think about him all the time. Although if he was standing right in front of me I would probably just be mad that he had acted like a big baby for so long and wouldn't give him the time of day because he is retarded. I think the only reason I keep thinking about it is because the whole situation doesn't make any sense to me. What the hell just happened? Was I supposed to care for him because I just wasn't there was it casual then why all the hurt feelings and long tantrums. His actions and mine were bizarre to be. If I could just make sense of it I could wrap it up in a neat little box and store it away but still something doesn't line up.

Is there something I am missing? What the hell happened? Why am I still thinking about it? And because he is an idiot I can't even get close enough to him to knock off the bull shit and just ask.

[substitute]

Closed doors are always a real bitch for P's. Really mess with our heads. Specially when you can't even get to find out why they were closed and bolted from the other side and you go crazy wondering what went wrong and just not being able to accept because you can't know, can't be given the chance to understand or see whether you agree that it should be closed. It's just the finality of it all, and the confusion. I know how that feels, happened to me a coupla times.

I know sometimes someone might have issues with something and decide it's time to quit on that. Maybe they decide it once and for all and are not open to negotiation. But even so, the other person is still owed an explanation I think. Sometimes they refuse to give you one because they fear that if they start talking to you again, they'll cave in. I still think it's pretty cowardly though.

Ask Oberon, I believe he's talked here in the past about just not being able to handle being cut off or having someone turn their back.

I think eventually you'll conclude that though you can't know the ins and outs of why he made that decision, it has roughly something to do with him being an asshole, and might find grounds for acceptance in that.

Then again, maybe he'll turn up like nothing happened in a few weeks' time. At which point you'd be justified in turning your back.

edit - there is a strong chance though, that he might see you as having led him on, and be non-pleased about that.

[runvardh]

Maybe you need to keep your flings under 4 months... not sure what to tell you otherwise.

[MacGuffin]

I ask: why do you care?

[nolla]

It's hard to keep it casual. Six months is a long time...

[ThatGirl]

I ask: why do you care?

I don't know!

I had put the man through the ringer but he was persistant. The last night we hung out together something gave me the creeps. He complimented me and treated me with compassion. He stopped at the door on his way out to kiss me goodnight, something he had never done before. It set me over the edge I responded back two days later with a sharp toung and the door was closed on me. I had done worse before but it was cool with him he just thought I was spunky. I don't get it. I asked him to keep things between just us but his friends showed up on my doorstep one night to see if he was really dating me they said he hadn't dated in a long time but I knew about the other women. He dated a lot. But if he was interested I'm me why all the comotion why not just walk away from the start if he knew where I was at in my life. Why all the drama? Why so sudden? What did I do? Or was it him? This was about four months ago and it is annoying the shit out of me that I a) need to make sense of it and) it is taking up space in my mind where I could be thinking of other things.

Even if I were to realize I had had feelings for him, but I don't think I did, the situation is completely over so that is not productive. I just want to understand it then squash it.

Just give it to me straight.

[ThatGirl]

P.s. He was older so I thought he would be more mature than the whole ignore thing. We had made a pact with each other to always be straight in communicating.

[runvardh]

You both got too close emotionally, how much of a check do you really keep on yourself? Anyway, emotions bottled up exploded and you got your drama. If you don't want the drama, stick to the really short term lest the emotions happen again. Good?

[disregard]

P.s. He was older so I thought he would be more mature than the whole ignore thing.

I think people seek to form relationships with those of equal emotional maturity.

[MacGuffin]

I don't know!

I had put the man through the ringer but he was persistant. The last night we hung out together something gave me the creeps. He complimented me and treated me with compassion. He stopped at the door on his way out to kiss me goodnight, something he had never done before. It set me over the edge I responded back two days later with a sharp toung and the door was closed on me. I had done worse before but it was cool with him he just thought I was spunky. I don't get it. I asked him to keep things between just us but his friends showed up on my doorstep one night to see if he was really dating me they said he hadn't dated in a long time but I knew about the other women. He dated a lot. But if he was interested I'm me why all the comotion why not just walk away from the start if he knew where I was at in my life. Why all the drama? Why so sudden? What did I do? Or was it him? This was about four months ago and it is annoying the shit out of me that I a) need to make sense of it and) it is taking up space in my mind where I could be thinking of other things.

Even if I were to realize I had had feelings for him, but I don't think I did, the situation is completely over so that is not productive. I just want to understand it then squash it.

Just give it to me straight.
Perhaps he was starting to develop feelings for you. If his friends said he didn't date, maybe he was lying to you about seeing other women.

Take your mental image of him in your head, put it in an imaginary toilet, and flush.

[ThatGirl]

Closed doors are always a real bitch for P's. Really mess with our heads. Specially when you can't even get to find out why they were closed and bolted from the other side and you go crazy wondering what went wrong and just not being able to accept because you can't know, can't be given the chance to understand or see whether you agree that it should be closed. It's just the finality of it all, and the confusion. I know how that feels, happened to me a coupla times.

I know sometimes someone might have issues with something and decide it's time to quit on that. Maybe they decide it once and for all and are not open to negotiation. But even so, the other person is still owed an explanation I think. Sometimes they refuse to give you one because they fear that if they start talking to you again, they'll cave in. I still think it's pretty cowardly though.

Ask Oberon, I believe he's talked here in the past about just not being able to handle being cut off or having someone turn their back.

I think eventually you'll conclude that though you can't know the ins and outs of why he made that decision, it has roughly something to do with him being an asshole, and might find grounds for acceptance in that.

Then again, maybe he'll turn up like nothing happened in a few weeks' time. At which point you'd be justified in turning your back.

edit - there is a strong chance though, that he might see you as having led him on, and be non-pleased about that.

Does that mean that you cared or just that you are annoyed at the decision being made for you without question?

[nolla]

I think people seek to form relationships with those of equal emotional maturity.

Smart. It makes sense now why I am single. Dating five year olds is illegal.

[runvardh]

I think people seek to form relationships with those of equal emotional maturity.

This just means I have to be in more of a hurry as the older the girls get the closer they get to "closing up shop" as it were.

[observer84]

It's a bit too ambiguous to give you any insight. What did you say that was rude? Why do you suppose he would even think to ask "he, bebe, wanna wash my underwear?" Ha.

Artisans thrive on spontaneity and live moment-to-moment. So basically you could have a relationship with one and not know it, because you're just together and not planning a future together or anything. An aspect of understanding gets really lost is S/N relationships. Misinterpretation abounds.

Ne is talking to Se. You like to see connections, metaphors, perhaps underlying meanings in what you say and in what he says. He takes everything you say at face value, and in turn communicates in a concrete way.

You are both extroverted, so you both live in your environment as your energy is directed at people and things in the world, as opposed to an introvert where energy is directed toward the self. I don't know what that has to do with anything, actually, I just like thinking about it in any human interaction difficulty.

The problem with two EXTPs is that they are both prideful and arrogant as f**k. Especially an ESTP.

[ThatGirl]

I know I am an emotional retard that's why I am asking for clarity on a public forum on a personal matter.

[runvardh]

I know I am an emotional retard that's why I am asking for clarity on a public forum on a personal matter.

So it's basically the feelings you didn't see, on both sides. Now it's over and chasing crybaby is only worth what you see in gaining if you do manage to get him back. Evaluate then either run him down or do as MacGuffin said, flush.

[observer84]

I don't know!

I had put the man through the ringer but he was persistant. The last night we hung out together something gave me the creeps. He complimented me and treated me with compassion. He stopped at the door on his way out to kiss me goodnight, something he had never done before. It set me over the edge I responded back two days later with a sharp toung and the door was closed on me. I had done worse before but it was cool with him he just thought I was spunky. I don't get it. I asked him to keep things between just us but his friends showed up on my doorstep one night to see if he was really dating me they said he hadn't dated in a long time but I knew about the other women. He dated a lot. But if he was interested I'm me why all the comotion why not just walk away from the start if he knew where I was at in my life. Why all the drama? Why so sudden? What did I do? Or was it him? This was about four months ago and it is annoying the shit out of me that I a) need to make sense of it and) it is taking up space in my mind where I could be thinking of other things.

Even if I were to realize I had had feelings for him, but I don't think I did, the situation is completely over so that is not productive. I just want to understand it then squash it.

Just give it to me straight.

Well now what do you mean by "sent over the edge?" Good or bad edge?

Maybe when you responded back with a sharp tongue it hurt a little more than usual, being that he was doing his best to actually be a gentleman. If it creeped you out, maybe you are still uncomfortable with receiving compliments and affection from someone besides your ex.

His friends were either lying about "he never dates" to cover his ass, or he doesn't date other girls. Also, if they weren't lying, he must be pretty phsyched about you to tell his friends about you (or he's lying and doesn't date other girls, which imo is the most likely).

You say you don't think you had any feelings for him. I'm not going to make any conjectures, but you should really figure this one out for yourself ASAP.

[substitute]

Does that mean that you cared or just that you are annoyed at the decision being made for you without question?

A bit of both. In the case of the most recent one, I really did care so both that and the finality/non-negotiability of it all decimated me at the same time.

In the case of my ex-spouse, I only THOUGHT I cared but with hindsight much later I realized it was the latter of your options :) Well no, to be fair, I did care about them, but I knew I didn't really want to continue in the relationship. I'd even been thinking about ending it myself, so I guess it was largely ego, preferring to dump rather than be dumped :laugh:

I think Mac's advice though, is very pertinent.

[disregard]

If you're lukewarm about him, he's seeing other girls (or lying to you), AND he's stopped talking to you, then why bother?

[ThatGirl]

It's a bit too ambiguous to give you any insight. What did you say that was rude? Why do you suppose he would even think to ask "he, bebe, wanna wash my underwear?" Ha.

Artisans thrive on spontaneity and live moment-to-moment. So basically you could have a relationship with one and not know it, because you're just together and not planning a future together or anything. An aspect of understanding gets really lost is S/N relationships. Misinterpretation abounds.

Ne is talking to Se. You like to see connections, metaphors, perhaps underlying meanings in what you say and in what he says. He takes everything you say at face value, and in turn communicates in a concrete way.

You are both extroverted, so you both live in your environment as your energy is directed at people and things in the world, as opposed to an introvert where energy is directed toward the self. I don't know what that has to do with anything, actually, I just like thinking about it in any human interaction difficulty.

The problem with two EXTPs is that they are both prideful and arrogant as f**k. Especially an ESTP.

After that night I knew he had an important test to take and had studied a long time for it to advance at his job. We didn't have each others phone numbers so I went to his house and knocked on the door to see how things went. I knew he was home but he didn't answer. So I left a note that said "I came to see how you did on your test. When you didn't answer I thought the worst. Now I couldn't care one way or the other" and left.

He was kind of a jerk but never to me until that point.

[MacGuffin]

I know I am an emotional retard that's why I am asking for clarity on a public forum on a personal matter.

Advice: you didn't want to have feelings for him, so stop mindfucking it now or you'll end up thinking you did/do.

[observer84]

So it's basically the feelings you didn't see, on both sides. Now it's over and chasing crybaby is only worth what you see in gaining if you do manage to get him back. Evaluate then either run him down or do as MacGuffin said, flush.

It's really odd for me, when discussing relationship difficulties, to see all this giving up. When I have feelings for someone, its pretty intense, and I only give up when A) the feelings are totally gone or B) I know for sure its in my best interest to try to move one (aka irreconcilable events have occurred).

When people have romantic feelings (mutual) you don't just drop it on a whim. Maybe you guys just have a crush on ThatGirl and would rather see her single again.

[murkrow]

This guy sounds like a creep.

I like your ex.

[substitute]

It's really odd for me, when discussing relationship difficulties, to see all this giving up. When I have feelings for someone, its pretty intense, and I only give up when A) the feelings are totally gone or B) I know for sure its in my best interest to try to move one (aka irreconcilable events have occurred).

You don't have to tell me. I'm the same way. But in this case it seems there never really was a relationship as such in the first place. that's the trouble with this casual dating thing you do in America. Here, by the time you were going out together you'd have already known you were in love and it would be the beginning of a relationship. All the questioning and wondering about whether you were ready for a relationship or wanted one with them would've gone on whilst you were just friends, seeing each other in groups of friends and socializing and stuff.

But in this case, it seems there's been massive confusion going on in both parties about the actual nature of the relationship as long as there was a culturally acceptable way for it to be 'best of both worlds'.

[Little Linguist]

You don't have to tell me. I'm the same way. But in this case it seems there never really was a relationship as such in the first place. that's the trouble with this casual dating thing you do in America. Here, by the time you were going out together you'd have already known you were in love and it would be the beginning of a relationship. All the questioning and wondering about whether you were ready for a relationship or wanted one with them would've gone on whilst you were just friends, seeing each other in groups of friends and socializing and stuff.

But in this case, it seems there's been massive confusion going on in both parties about the actual nature of the relationship as long as there was a culturally acceptable way for it to be 'best of both worlds'.

I have *never* really understood the concept of casual dating!!! I mean, doesn't it make things complicated for both parties? I mean - *shrugs* I don't want to put any value judgments on it, I just don't understand the logic?!

[ThatGirl]

As an ENTP I am comelled by my need to understand how everything came to be. And I am sort of arrogant in my ability to figure it all out but his I am afraid I never will. Motivation is not really beyond that in this situation.if he wants to ignore me screw him.

Still I have to give it to the man he outdid me hands down.

[runvardh]

It's really odd for me, when discussing relationship difficulties, to see all this giving up. When I have feelings for someone, its pretty intense, and I only give up when A) the feelings are totally gone or B) I know for sure its in my best interest to try to move one (aka irreconcilable events have occurred).

When people have romantic feelings (mutual) you don't just drop it on a whim. Maybe you guys just have a crush on ThatGirl and would rather see her single again.

I'm saying the give up part according to her desire to not have feelings involved. It takes me quite some time to get a girl out of my system and it hurts to tell them to go (I've done it before, for good and foolish reasons). I'm trying to follow the OP's intent, not my own values.

[ThatGirl]

I have *never* really understood the concept of casual dating!!! I mean, doesn't it make things complicated for both parties? I mean - *shrugs* I don't want to put any value judgments on it, I just don't understand the logic?!

Its a way of sharing companionship without integrating lifestyles. Just because I like spending time with you doesn't mean I want to start reorginizing everything in my life to accomadate you presence.

[Oberon]

Ambivalence did you in, TG. You held him at arm's length for so long that when you finally hit a little bump, he cut you loose. The weak little thing you were passing off for a relationship wasn't worth his trouble.

It's a pity. He sounds like he was a pretty worthwhile guy, on paper at least.

The moral of the story? Either commit, or don't. That in-the-middle stuff won't last long-term.

[SillyGoose]

I have *never* really understood the concept of casual dating!!! I mean, doesn't it make things complicated for both parties? I mean - *shrugs* I don't want to put any value judgments on it, I just don't understand the logic?!

I don't get it either :huh:

It just seems like a waste of time to me, but yeah, this doesn't help ThatGirl so I'll just pipe down on that :headphne:

[runvardh]

Ambivalence did you in, TG. You held him at arm's length for so long that when you finally hit a little bump, he cut you loose. The weak little thing you were passing off for a relationship wasn't worth his trouble.

It's a pity. He sounds like he was a pretty worthwhile guy, on paper at least.

The moral of the story? Either commit, or don't. That in-the-middle stuff won't last long-term.

Therefore only do short term stuff and drop them quick.

[colmena]

Its a way of sharing companionship without integrating lifestyles. Just because I like spending time with you doesn't mean I want to start reorginizing everything in my life to accomadate you presence.

This sounds like a "friend".

Ambivalence did you in, TG. You held him at arm's length for so long that when you finally hit a little bump, he cut you loose. The weak little thing you were passing off for a relationship wasn't worth his trouble.

I just thought that was worth reading again.

[ThatGirl]

Ambivalence did you in, TG. You held him at arm's length for so long that when you finally hit a little bump, he cut you loose. The weak little thing you were passing off for a relationship wasn't worth his trouble.

It's a pity. He sounds like he was a pretty worthwhile guy, on paper at least.

The moral of the story? Either commit, or don't. That in-the-middle stuff won't last long-term.

I agree, on paper has always been enough to get me by. Now I just don't understand anything about relationships anymore.

[heart]

Your guy might have simply cooked up your rude comment to be more than it really was because he wanted excuse to jettison any deeper feelings he was developing for you (it does sound like you had a friendship basis there) and use perfectionism to keep himself from becoming too close to any one woman. The lack of closure and explaination on his part in the break up show him to be selfish and small minded. You simply found out what he was really like.

He might grow up more, he might not.

Edit: That's strange him telling you he's dating two other women and his friends saying he isn't. Someone's playing games and not telling the truth there.

Bottomline if you were friends and he won't at least talk to you and gain closure on the issues as the friendship ends, he doesn't really sound like someone who wanted to invest much emotional energy in the situation to begin with.

[SillyGoose]

*snicker* Look at all these f-ers coming out on this thread. :)

[observer84]

I guess I assumed that since she hung out with him for 6 months, and 4 months later is still preoccupied with the situation, she must have had feelings for him and maybe still does. But what does a Rational know about feelings, anyway?

I guess I was wrong about her caring, even if she does want to understand wtf happened.

I don't understand casual dating either. If I go on a date with someone I don't already have feelings for, just to see if I might end up liking him a lot, it never lasts longer than a couple weeks. I agree, I must be pretty enamored to see a person on a relationship level.

However, relationships that move too fast scare the crap out of me.

I really think we need an S's opinion on this. N's for the most part just don't "get" S's. And it's not just because they have the other three letters except that one in common. It's really the source of many communication gaps because even though you think you are communicating in the same language, you really aren't.

[heart]

There's nothing wrong with casual dating. If anything, there should be more of it so people can get to know each other and learn what they do and don't like in the opposite sex.

There's a reason why in the olden days people made a distinction between dating and going steady. Now people seem to just jump to going steady.

Edit: The more disturbing thing in ThatGirl's story is that she and this dude were friends and yet he dropped her as a friend over one comment and won't talk about it. That's just not a good way to treat a friend. Sure, maybe he doesn't want her as lover but at least value the person enough to be willing to talk about what went on and why.

[disregard]

I think that "dating" has turned into "going steady" because people have started "hooking up" during the dating. I don't think people "hooked up" that much back then, so dating didn't carry that heavy cloud of "are we a couple?"

[heart]

I think that "dating" has turned into "going steady" because people have started "hooking up" during the dating. I don't think people "hooked up" that much back then, so dating didn't carry that heavy cloud of "are we a couple?"

Yes, that's a good point too.

[ThatGirl]

I have dropped friends on a comment lots of times and it was usually because I was waiting for validity of a theory that I only assumed about the person........ooooohhhhhh!

He didn't care about me...not like that! I was pushing him away because everyone was telling me that he was developing feelings for me and he must have noticed the difference in our interactions, that feelings of anykind were being considered. He probably thought I was the one developing feelings and was responded accordingly. We were a lot alike. Usually though when I do drop a friend there is no room for doubt in the situation. What bothers me is that he held me to a standard that was wrong. Maybe he needed a fake excuse to break away but the guy wasn't an idiot he knew I wasn't like that. So why all the walls am I really that persuasive? Why does everyone feel out of control around me that I draw out drastic reactions all the time? But then why the akwardness because I wouldn't let him buy me a coffee why the mixed signals on his part. Was it a situation where a monumental relationship was possible and neither was ready or wanted it? Did we both fight to destroy that which took us by surprise? Why was it so simple for him? What was I missing?

I know I "feel" like an idiot for saying all this.

[MacGuffin]

Maybe you confirmed his theory about you.

[runvardh]

ThatGirl, you want all the good stuff with out any of the bad; a man who will follow your wims while still pretending enough to have a pair that he'd feel like a man to you. People can annoy eachother, no matter how rational both are being - the part that makes continuing the relationship worth it is what good your getting in the end. Now, you do see yourself as having the right to get what good you're looking for; thing is, the guy has the same right. As much as you have the right to walk away, so does he.

[rhinosaur]

P.s. He was older so I thought he would be more mature than the whole ignore thing. We had made a pact with each other to always be straight in communicating.

It sounds like he was more straightforward than you. I mean, think about it. He's giving you a clear signal that he'd be interested in more (kissing you goodnight, etc), and you respond with yet another mixed signal. Rather than keep dealing with that kind of bullshit (saying one thing with your voice and another thing with your body/actions), he ended it.

[Lateralus]

Ambivalence did you in, TG. You held him at arm's length for so long that when you finally hit a little bump, he cut you loose. The weak little thing you were passing off for a relationship wasn't worth his trouble.

It's a pity. He sounds like he was a pretty worthwhile guy, on paper at least.

The moral of the story? Either commit, or don't. That in-the-middle stuff won't last long-term.
I was thinking the same thing.

[ThatGirl]

I am NOT an irrational person. I am the most open minded person I know when it comes to viewing someone elses position. I don't understand his position. I did not deserve the lies I did not deserve the public humiliation. I was one hundred percent honest with him from the start. He betrayed my faith in his honesty and held me accountable to his assumptions. If he had developed feelings one word about it was all I would have needed to revaluate the situation and make a decision. If he told me Thatgirl you discust me then I would have said FINE you have a right to be discusted by me. He manipulated me into thinking that he was this MAN. If anyone pulled the mixed signal shit it was him. I would have been stupid to become emotionally invested in someone who was content in dating multiple women. I would never have allowed that to happen. I met him where I could and he said that was fine!

Unless he thought he could control me into falling all over myself for him while he kept me at arms length like he did the other two girls. If that was the case and he became frusterated then he is indeed smart for walking away.

If he did have feelings he was a coward and robbed me of making my own choices about my feelings.

If it is any other senario then again he was a coward for not being straight forward.

I never lied to him.

[MacGuffin]

I am NOT an irrational person. I am the most open minded person I know when it comes to viewing someone elses position. I don't understand his position. I did not deserve the lies I did not deserve the public humiliation. I was one hundred percent honest with him from the start. He betrayed my faith in his honesty and held me accountable to his assumptions. If he had developed feelings one word about it was all I would have needed to revaluate the situation and make a decision. If he told me Thatgirl you discust me then I would have said FINE you have a right to be discusted by me. He manipulated me into thinking that he was this MAN. If anyone pulled the mixed signal shit it was him. I would have been stupid to become emotionally invested in someone who was content in dating multiple women. I would never have allowed that to happen. I met him where I could and he said that was fine!

Unless he thought he could control me into falling all over myself for him while he kept me at arms length like he did the other two girls. If that was the case and he became frusterated then he is indeed smart for walking away.

If he did have feelings he was a coward and robbed me of making my own choices about my feelings.

If it is any other senario then again he was a coward for not being straight forward.

I never lied to him.
Okay the more you write, the more confused I get by the whole thing, and the more you come off as the irrational party.

[ThatGirl]

I had just ended a six year relationship. The thought of catering to another man scared me shitless. He knew this. Still I did the best with the information that was available to me. If he wanted more he should have told me and let me decide what I was capable of giving. I would have made the best decision possible.

[rhinosaur]

How do you feel about your ex-? Has ending the relationship been a positive thing?

Edit to add: Not all communication needs to be spoken.

[observer84]

Well you shouldn't cater to any man. I think he was definitely pursuing you. I think you were definitely keeping him at arms length. I think he definitely gave up after the comment you made to him after kissed you. I think you are not ready for another relationship, because if it was "right" then you would not feel like you were catering to another man, but genuinely caring about him and therefore wanting to wash his underwear... uh I mean... wanting to be kissed by him and not get all pissy about it.

[ThatGirl]

Okay the more you write, the more confused I get by the whole thing, and the more you come off as the irrational party.

Why irrational? Now you know my frustration the whole thing is a mess.

[ThatGirl]

How do you feel about your ex-? Has ending the relationship been a positive thing?

Edit to add: Not all communication needs to be spoken.

I am confused

[observer84]

honestly how do you think he should have behaved? A guy doesn't hang out with a girl, alone, unless they are really good buddies or he wants her. End of story.

[runvardh]

You most certainly are and in the process making everyone else just as if not more confused and less likely to be capable of helping, never mind wanting to.

[ThatGirl]

Well you shouldn't cater to any man. I think he was definitely pursuing you. I think you were definitely keeping him at arms length. I think he definitely gave up after the comment you made to him after kissed you. I think you are not ready for another relationship, because if it was "right" then you would not feel like you were catering to another man, but genuinely caring about him and therefore wanting to wash his underwear... uh I mean... wanting to be kissed by him and not get all pissy about it.

I think he should have been honest then. I don't want to regret that I somehow demolished a perfect on paper guy because of whatever. If the opportunity was now I would have liked to decide that for myself.

[MacGuffin]

Why irrational? Now you know my frustration the whole thing is a mess.

Yes, that frustration. If you really didn't have feelings for him, you'd just write him off and not think about this anymore. He made a move, you responded with that P/A note, he cut you off.

I see anger and an inability to simply explain the situation, even months later. It appears you don't really know how you feel.

[Jack Flak]

honestly how do you think he should have behaved? A guy doesn't hang out with a girl, alone, unless they are really good buddies or he wants her. End of story.

Yes this is true. If I had a bunch of nickels, and a sock...Wait, wrong cliche. I'm surprised all the time by how many women refuse to acknowledge that 999/1000 guys don't really care if they're your friend. They want something else, whether it be love or just sex, and will lie like a dog, pretending they just like hangin' with ya, in attempts to get it.

[ThatGirl]

Sex was not a source of conflict.

[SillyGoose]

Ok, so you feel he should have talked to you more about how he was feeling so that you could've evaluated how you were feeling. You think/feel (ooo t&f in action together!!) that he was dishonest by not doing so.

Ok, with all of that said it was months ago and you are now still trying to figure out. Honestly what more is there to figure out? He doesn't talk to you anymore, he made a choice and that's that.

People don't always do what you think they should've done. They don't even have to explain why they did something most of the time. It's just one of those things and in the dating game, it is usually more of a mind fuck then this.

[observer84]

I think he should have been honest then. I don't want to regret that I somehow demolished a perfect on paper guy because of whatever. If the opportunity was now I would have liked to decide that for myself.

Honest, then, how? About the other two girls? Well I think he was honest about them from the outright. I'm pretty sure you appreciated the releif from pressure for something serious to happen, no?

What he probably meant by that is that there's these other two girls he kinda likes so if you are just getting over a serious relationship and not ready to dive right in, hey, that's okay. If you're not ready then I'll wait and meanwhile keep my options open. Completely fair and honest. He didn't want to pressure you. Kudos to him.

And you continue to tag him along for the next 6 months, keeping him at arm's length, and he finally gets a frickin' harmless kiss and you are rude to him? Not only did that probably make his heart beat at 2220bpm, you have the nerve to be rude to him? I feel sorry for him now.

I'm sorry if this is harsh, it's just an analytical perspective from an INTP on some internet forum.

[observer84]

Ok, so you feel he should have talked to you more about how he was feeling so that you could've evaluated how you were feeling. You think/feel (ooo t&f in action together!!) that he was dishonest by not doing so.
Last time you were completely gaga over some guy, when did you get around to pouring your heart out to him? Before or after he snubbed you? Maybe right after he told you about how he just broke up with his fiancee?

People don't make themselves vulnerable to being hurt until they're sure the other person just might have feelings for them back. He wasn't being dishonest, he was protecting his heart.

T's are usually very protective of their heart because they know so little about it and how to deal with it when it hurts.

[SillyGoose]

Last time you were completely gaga over some guy, when did you get around to pouring your heart out to him? Before or after he snubbed you? Maybe right after he told you about how he just broke up with his fiancee?

People don't make themselves vulnerable to being hurt until they're sure the other person just might have feelings for them back. He wasn't being dishonest, he was protecting his heart.

T's are usually very protective of their heart because they know so little about it and how to deal with it when it hurts.


Seems we're having a miscommunication here. I'm not saying ThatGirl was dishonest. She stated that she doesn't know why he didn't tell her what he was feeling so that she could evaluate how she was feeling to tell him.

Dating and even casual dating is not a step-by-step go by the dating manual experience. Everyone, even F's, bring their baggage with them and sometimes you will just never know why you didn't click, why it didn't happen, why they stopped talking to you.....it is what it is in the dating game.

[observer84]

Maybe I shouldn't have quoted your post, sillygoose.

At first I thought she was upset about him not being honest about dating two other girls.

Then I read your post and realized she was talking about not being honest about his feelings for her. Maybe that's why I quoted it.

I'm not calling ThatGirl dishonest at all. I agree with you in your post, well put.

I was more analyzing "the dating game" and making the point that if I were that ESTP, I wouldn't tell her how I felt about her, either, since she was not appearing very receptive to a relationship.

Which, btw, he obviously wanted a relationship because what kind of idiot would stick around that long just for sex?

[heart]

I was more analyzing "the dating game" and making the point that if I were that ESTP, I wouldn't tell her how I felt about her, either, since she was not appearing very receptive to a relationship.

Which, btw, he obviously wanted a relationship because what kind of idiot would stick around that long just for sex?

I wonder why someone would assume this. If someone liked the sex and liked the person's company, they might well stick around in a casual thing because they liked the casualness too. Not everyone wants commitment.

I had just ended a six year relationship. The thought of catering to another man scared me shitless. He knew this. Still I did the best with the information that was available to me. If he wanted more he should have told me and let me decide what I was capable of giving. I would have made the best decision possible.

It is not easy to follow this story, but it just sounds like the wrong two people at the wrong time. I think you maybe even know this, but the confusing thing is your feelings, not wanting it to be true, wants thinking to come up with a more desirible answer.

[SillyGoose]

I wonder why someone would assume this. If someone liked the sex and liked the person's company, they might well stick around in a casual thing because they liked the casualness too. Not everyone wants commitment.

I agree with this as well. There's nothing inherently wrong with casual.

For myself, however, I don't do casual. Half the time I don't even know what I want, so casual to me is something more I have to think about and mull over and it takes too much energy. But I always tell that. Communication is key.

[ThatGirl]

Maybe I shouldn't have quoted your post, sillygoose.

At first I thought she was upset about him not being honest about dating two other girls.

Then I read your post and realized she was talking about not being honest about his feelings for her. Maybe that's why I quoted it.

I'm not calling ThatGirl dishonest at all. I agree with you in your post, well put.

I was more analyzing "the dating game" and making the point that if I were that ESTP, I wouldn't tell her how I felt about her, either, since she was not appearing very receptive to a relationship.

Which, btw, he obviously wanted a relationship because what kind of idiot would stick around that long just for sex?

If he had just told me that I now think I probably would have made the appropriate adjustments. I think I am more upset about the fact that I really wasn't ever given the choice. I made decisions that were appropriate to his words. I never have been good at picking up the small hints and never wear my feelings on my sleeve. I learn through trial and error eventually I perfect everything I set my mind to. Sucks. But I think I understand now.

Thanks Guys

[Beat]

Is it possible that it's more of a fixation on the rejection, his quickness to dismiss you, than you actually missing him?

I just read the original post and don't know what ground has been covered in between there and here. My apologies if that's already been hit on.

[Oberon]

I learn through trial and error eventually I perfect everything I set my mind to.

Oh... and humility can be important, too. Just FYI.

[observer84]

I wonder why someone would assume this. If someone liked the sex and liked the person's company, they might well stick around in a casual thing because they liked the casualness too. Not everyone wants commitment.

It is my understanding that there was no sex. Correct me if I'm wrong. That would be a different ball of wax.


Is it possible that it's more of a fixation on the rejection, his quickness to dismiss you, than you actually missing him?


Sounds like it to me.

I learn through trial and error eventually I perfect everything I set my mind to. Sucks. But I think I understand now.


Yes, it takes a lot of trial and error understand.

[heart]

Oh... and humility can be important, too. Just FYI.

When I read the story, I sort of just assumed any guy who had hung around ThatGirl for more than half an hour wasn't really looking for the humble sort of girl. ;)

[ThatGirl]

how would sex involved form an entire new ball of wax?

When I read the story, I sort of just assumed any guy who had hung around ThatGirl for more than half an hour wasn't really looking for the humble sort of girl. ;)

I'M HUMBLE! I am the most humble person on the face of the planet! I don't think anyone is more humble than I am....seriously.

Oh... and humility can be important, too. Just FYI.

Yeah tried that. Humility and I don't really mesh well.

[cafe]

Romantic relationships are just kind of like a really bad employee contract where you can get 'fired' at any time with or without cause and without explanation.

It's a courtesy to give the other party closure, but not everyone is courteous.

I do think you need more time to recover from your previous relationship. You are naturally feeling very protective of yourself right now, but in protecting yourself you can accidentally inflict pain on yourself and others.

[Udog]

Ambivalence did you in, TG. You held him at arm's length for so long that when you finally hit a little bump, he cut you loose. The weak little thing you were passing off for a relationship wasn't worth his trouble.


He made a move, you responded with that P/A note, he cut you off.

THESE.

First, it sounds like you two didn't quite fit together. Someone needed to put their emotions on the table, and since neither of you could, it ended.

Second, I've never seen a casual relationship where sex and good company are involved remain casual after ~6 months. The relationship always requires deeper commitment (of some sort) by around this time or it quickly unravels.

Here is a bit more info: ESTPs are about fun and the moment. If something becomes stressful and is no longer fun, they are very good at letting go and moving on. Also, ESTPs are more prone to show, not tell, their genuine emotions.

He stated clearly that he wanted something fun and lighthearted. Yet, based on his behavior change at the end, something deeper developed despite himself. The uncertainty of the situation quickly became stressful, and since he had already convinced himself he didn't really want a relationship, he wasn't interested in making an definitive move. This leads to a "I'll give it a half-assed shot, and if it doesn't work, screw it" type attitude. So at the end he did make a move, and when you harshly rejected it, he moved on. The fun no longer outweighed the stress and undercurrent.

[heart]

Second, I've never seen a casual relationship where sex and good company are involved remain casual after ~6 months. The relationship always requires deeper commitment (of some sort) by around this time or it quickly unravels.

I know people who had no string sex relationships that lasted over a decade because it suited the wants and needs of the persons. I haven't experienced it myself but I know of it.

[ThatGirl]

yes this is what I need in a man:

"Thatgirl. Thatgirl! Are you listening? I am interested in a relationsh....THATGIRL pay attention! I am intersted in a relasionship with you. Thatgirl I think you are dead sexy! WE ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP NOW!"

ME: "oh! alright...... so what now, want to get some coffee you're treat? And while we are at it here is something for you to read and I will need you to sign here initial there. Thats just going over personal space and frankness just sign here aaaaaand.... we're all set"

*skips off hand and hand into the horizon*

Me: "Thanks for that"

*puts head on his shoulder*

[colmena]

Sounds like you're afraid to show some substance. I often get this impression from ENTPs. I can infer substance from their interests, but they're afraid to show a little humility and explicitly connect (ie - more than just intellect).

Perhaps afraid isn't the right word. The value of it needs to be conceded to.

[murkrow]

yes this is what I need in a man:

"Thatgirl. Thatgirl! Are you listening? I am interested in a relationsh....THATGIRL pay attention! I am intersted in a relasionship with you. Thatgirl I think you are dead sexy! WE ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP NOW!"

ME: "oh! alright...... so what now, want to get some coffee you're treat? And while we are at it here is something for you to read and I will need you to sign here initial there. Thats just going over personal space and frankness just sign here aaaaaand.... we're all set"

*skips off hand and hand into the horizon*

Me: "Thanks for that"

*puts head on his shoulder*

I think I'm in love.

[Jack Flak]

Y'all would make a violent couple. In a good way.

[murkrow]

Yeah, she'd violently make me get a job.

[murkrow]

maybe I am an INTP...

[ThatGirl]

epiphany!

[observer84]

how would sex involved form an entire new ball of wax?


Sex changes a relationship. I don't know how to explain it.

If you guys were having sex, then "hanging out" would mean "hooking up." Id' have to re-read this entire thread with that in mind, and I'm almost sure my conclusions drawn would be different.

If you were hooking up this whole time, it would make much more sense that he stuck around so long, and that you are still hung-up on this. Maybe he didn't care that much at all, or maybe he did. Maybe he didn't at first and he started to get attached. In any casual hookup situation, often times one person gets attached and the relationship ends because the other person doesn't return the affection. Or the affection is not there at all and over time it fizzles. Or they both develop feelings (the brain chemicals help to promote affection) and it becomes a relationship.

Basically if you weren't hooking up, I'd say he obviously cared about you quite a bit. If you were hooking up, that factors in much more to consider.

[murkrow]

Am I the only one who thinks 9 pages is too much to waste on a skeezy old salesman?

[Udog]

Dude, he made 6 figures a year.

[murkrow]

hahaha

[heart]

Am I the only one who thinks 9 pages is too much to waste on a skeezy old salesman?

I'd have to see the pics to make a sound judgment on this.

[Udog]

I know people who had no string sex relationships that lasted over a decade because it suited the wants and needs of the persons. I haven't experienced it myself but I know of it.

Yes. I think I should revise my statement. If the undercurrent that develops after that time period can be openly brought to the surface, and both people only desire something casual, then I can definitely see it working.

I just haven't heard of it, since someone tends to always want more from what I've seen.

[observer84]

Am I the only one who thinks 9 pages is too much to waste on a skeezy old salesman?

It's really not about the salesman. It's about the relationship between two people and why it turned out the way it turned out.

[Oberon]

TG, I'm not real smart sometimes about relationship issues, but something tells me that your best strategy is not to drop this issue and forget about it, but work through it.

I think you should mourn the lost opportunity. Hey, you and this guy maybe could have had something, and maybe in your heart of hearts he (and your relationship, such as it was) was more precious to you than even you realized.

If that's the case, you're not served best by just dropping it. If you think this might be what's going on, go ahead and acknowledge the grief, if only to yourself. Relationships are supposed to be invested in. Next time, you'll know.