An INTP observation about NF

[Cypocalypse]

I'm sorry if I have to make this broad (NF). I don't have a clear cut distinction between xNFJ and xNFP, but I do understand the difference between Fi and Fe.

______________

Most of my long term friends are NF. One probably is an ENFP and the other one is probably also an ENFP (maybe a J, but I can't be that certain).

I noticed that, they both have an established ethical benchmark (both are Christians, leaning on the conservative side), which is a good thing.

They are both intelligent, which means they both entertain my habit of inititiating deep, often intellectual in nature kinds of conversations.

One thing I really really like about NFs is their godly intellect in looking for the right moment in injecting their F side in a conversation. I'm not sure if NFs here are getting the picture, but they have this knack of making F a helpful perspective in an NTs line of conversing. Most SFs I know don't have a knack for this.

One downside I noticed about NFs (the ethical side formed by the N and the F), is their lack of will to fight for the values they hold for themselves. It's like you're giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

It's like you have a clear notion of your understanding of what is bad and what is good, but....you can get a bit hesitant in talking about it in fear of....I don't know. Hurting someone, perhaps?

Isn't it a bit hypocritical if...for example...you give a benefit of the doubt to someone whose values may be even considerably contrary to what you believe in?

[locke]

From my understanding, NFPs will give the benefit of the doubt (unless there's a serious breach of their values) and NFJs will more likely take a stand.

[Angry Ayrab]

I think he is right. To a point I am a door matt as in I do let people get away with some things because in my head the good of not conflicting on that certain matter outweighs the bad.

What I am trying to say is that door matt mode is only on certain things that don't concern me too much, for example if you happen to talk shit about my beliefs (in a confrontational manner and not debating for the sake of better understanding) I will most likely introduce you to the business end of my shoe (metaphorically unless physically is needed). If you talk about my friends in a negative way (I have no tolerance of gossip) then expect to have your colon forcefully evacuated (usually metaphorically here, and not by sucking the dinner out of your ass either).

Then you get the stupid values that only apply to myself and I will not interject them on others. For example, I will never wear those tight fitting emo skater pants, but I will never debate with anyone about them wearing them even if it makes them look stupid to me.

My intuition tells me that you believe most NF's to be sissies even when it matters to them though. I know many like that, and I also know NT's that are like that, and their rationale I guess is that the person is not worth the trouble.

[nolla]

It is about respect. I don't like to be pushy with my values. They are for me and I doubt that they would work for everyone.

[Angry Ayrab]

It is about respect. I don't like to be pushy with my values. They are for me and I doubt that they would work for everyone.

well said.

[mlittrell]

It is about respect. I don't like to be pushy with my values. They are for me and I doubt that they would work for everyone.

good call.

a true INFP.

Won't push their value system on anyone, but you better not mess with it.

[Kyrielle]

Isn't it a bit hypocritical if...for example...you give a benefit of the doubt to someone whose values may be even considerably contrary to what you believe in?

But we're talking about their values, not mine. Why would I argue for what I believe in if we're considering someone else's personal values, which have nothing at all to do with what I believe?

I mean I suppose if there was a discussion about a topic and this other person was coming up with ideas that failed to consider other people, then I might stand up and make an argument for the sake of the people whose rights aren't being considered. Or if I saw someone hurt another person or animal in an act of aggression, then I might get riled up and tell that person off.

In most situations other people's values, no matter how contrary to mine, are theirs and no one else's, and it's none of my damn business to tell them what I think about that (unless they asked me to or were visably doing harm to others). So, yes, I would rather give people the benefit of a doubt in regards to their personal beliefs and thoughts. I realise that believing and thinking something does not necessarily mean they will act on those beliefs/thoughts.

[dorareever]

Well, we INFP's do stand up for ourselves a lot. Protecting ourselves and our core values is what is important. We also have the ability to entertain two conflicting ideas at once, ideas are just ideas. what matters is how they interconnect. the pattern is more important than the elements. and the same pattern can be formed by very different elements.

fighting takes lots of time and effort; getting emotionally involved, which is the only "serious" way for us to get involved, over a simple matter of intellectual discussion or opinion would just be useless and tiring.

what can be sparring for you for us would be war.

[Anja]

Yup, I'm with the general consensus. None of my business. To me it is more important to be true to my own values than to try to change someone else's.

[mlittrell]

Functionally they are very different.

INFP -> Fi, Ne, Si, Te
INFJ -> Ni, Fe, Ti, Se

[SquirrelTao]

What I've run into in my deepest arguments is that I've found that people have had a hard time understanding what I meant. And so then I've been thrown back on myself and how inadequate I am as an educator and communicator. And then I've given thought to how best to educate or communicate. And then I've concluded that my time is better spent being creative. Debating takes energy away from being creative. This goes for the debates about which I care the most.

And then there are other reasons why people are not persuaded. Maybe they understand but they find it impractical. So then maybe energy is better spent problem-solving than debating.

What does debate accomplish? (Even though I like to debate and to follow debates, and I often learn from debates. Okay, maybe debate can lead sometimes to education and persuasion.)

[placebo]

I don't see it as hypocritical. Unless I see those 'values' as detrimental, in which case I will probably have no trouble speaking up, it's in the end, THEIR values. Also, sometimes it may be a bit of anxiety that prevents me from speaking up, but a lot of other times I just don't know how to translate what I understand into verbal articulation, if you know what I mean. It's a pain!

[snowflurri]

Well, as an NF giving people the benefit of the doubt doesn't necessarily mean that I don't want to defend my values.
Usually I just want to get along with everybody and not create conflict over a small matter. Everyone has different values, so as long as I believe in the values I hold myself to, a little disagreement is ok.

I only tend to defend my values strongly if someone has REALLY offended me.

[Dwigie]

I pretty much won't voice my opinion if people are stepping all over my values but I'll make a note to avoid any contact with that person or to take a huge distance.If the attack is directed at me I keep silent at first but then I go on a "secret hunt" picking apart every single flaw in his or her statement or that condradict my values and next time he or she opens his mouth: let it snow.
I actually keep this task" undergoing for varied periods of time and do this pretty quietly so no one can guess that I'm actually extremely angry or what not. And I won't lie...I'd like to change his or her side someday and get him/her on my side but I won't actively do so...it's their choice. On the other hand if I am arguing I don't give up until I have the last word.

[Martoon]

One downside I noticed about NFs (the ethical side formed by the N and the F), is their lack of will to fight for the values they hold for themselves. It's like you're giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

It's like you have a clear notion of your understanding of what is bad and what is good, but....you can get a bit hesitant in talking about it in fear of....I don't know. Hurting someone, perhaps?

Isn't it a bit hypocritical if...for example...you give a benefit of the doubt to someone whose values may be even considerably contrary to what you believe in?
I find it a little ironic to hear this coming from an INTP. Fighting for our values isn't exactly our strong point. ;)

I think the best and noblest thing a person can do, regarding values, is to have strong values, and to consistently live by them (even when it's difficult), but to respect other people having different values, and to not expect them to live by yours.

If someone else's values are considerably contrary to what you believe in, that's when you should especially give them the benefit of the doubt.

The exception to all this is when someone is violating other people (or creatures) in some way. In that case, it's appropriate to take action and make a point. Is this what you're referring to?

[am_i_evil666]

it depends. sometimes, i do fight for my values or my opinions, so to say. but other times, simply i'm not in the mood for arguing with people....that's the main reason why i don't do this. but when i do argue with someone, i stand up for my values.