Help with an ISFP

[lookoutbelow84093]

Im a male INFP. I dated a girl (ISFP) at work (I know my own fault)for about 2 months and in the beginning there was some amazing sexual tension and although short, it was fairly intense. We always had some trouble communicating but it seemed like we were getting better at it. In the end she said "lets take a break, I have my hesitations." I said "OK lets take a break then." She said "I didnt expect that to be your answer." In the end I thought we were fairly mature about it. Whew then the fireworks started. Its been really tense with her. I tried to make jokes and keep the mood light but that did not work and I really get the impression im just invading her space. For about 2weeks after that she sometimes made remarks such as "you turned your back on us." I got fed up with games and basically withdrew and stopped talking altogether. So its 4 months later and she often still makes quick angry remarks after things I say (to other people). Ive tried to talk to her a few times and her responses are always very short. I can hold a grudge but damn!
Bottom line... I still have strong feelings for her. I would love to reconcile, even date again, and I think she can sense this, but I always get the feeling im invading her space just by being present at work. I am not sure if I am making her uncomfortable or if I missed something somewhere. ISFPs how can I at least make work more comfortable and let her know that even though I have feelings for her, I respect her decision? Is there anything I can do to reconcile or will she hate me from here on out?

[runvardh]

This sort of thing has got me into trouble before and I can only be thankful that I never dealt with those girls at work. She wants you to beg for her to come back and even that might not even be good enough. Are you in a lower end retail or hospitality job? If so my intent would go in the direction of switching jobs and not bothering with her again; at 25, I feel too old to deal with those high school games. Please don't take my word as the only one, let some other people give you their take on it.

[lookoutbelow84093]

Yeah I hear you, im 27, shes 25, kinda thought this type of thing wouldnt be an issue. To be fair though I can be a pain in the @$$ sometimes and there was more give-take than I am writing (long enough as it is). But she always thinks im mad at her when im not (she isnt the only one so maybe it IS me). Although being accussed of it for the 19th time does tend to do the trick :)

[runvardh]

Yeah I hear you, im 27, shes 25, kinda thought this type of thing wouldnt be an issue. To be fair though I can be a pain in the @$$ sometimes and there was more give-take than I am writing (long enough as it is). But she always thinks im mad at her when im not (she isnt the only one so maybe it IS me). Although being accussed of it for the 19th time does tend to do the trick :)

This is one of the reasons why I poke at NTs more, they don't annoy you about it and believe what you say about your emotions - just have to be up front about them. They also seem to be more willing to help solve the problem as opposed to make it worse when they let you that close. Otherwise, if I'm going to date an SP, she and I would have to be in our 30's before we'd be ready for eachother.

[lookoutbelow84093]

:hi: ISFPs. If someone has time could you take a look. Really want to help.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/8036-help-isfp.html#post304146

[observer84]

Well if you still have strong feelings for her I say give it another shot. If it turns out she really is vindictive like that then you can always call it quits.

I dated an ISFP a while ago. My biggest problem was communication and things unraveled because I didn't know how he felt about me, and I wasn't brave enough to ask (for fear his feelings were more casual than mine). Maybe this was her way of trying to figure out what she means to you. Your reaction suggests the feeling was casual. The cutting remarks are pretty immature, but you can only hurt those that care.

You can't know for sure until you've tried.

[luminous beam]

Maybe this was her way of trying to figure out what she means to you. Your reaction suggests the feeling was casual. The cutting remarks are pretty immature, but you can only hurt those that care.


i agree with the above. the way you reacted was as if you didn't really care about your relationship with her. i understand why you withdrew and kept your feelings to yourself, but the problem here is truly communication. if you want to get through to any S or T, in my oppinion, you should be upfront, honest, and even blunt when you need to be. it may not be in your nature to do so, but that's how it works. you say something and they will take your word for it. it's quite literal, so spell it out to her. tell her how you feel about the situation and how you view things and where they stand. it's def easier said than done, but it'll make things move faster.

[SaltyWench]

When your girl was talking about having reservations, perhaps she was actually wanting reassurance of some kind, and she simply did not have the balls to come right out and say it. I'm not judging her either, I've done my own share of beating around the bush. Anyway, your instant support of the whole "take a break" idea obviously has hurt her. Perhaps she feels you were just playing with her, that you're quite comfortable having more than one woman in your life at one time, that it was all about sex... the list runs on and on. And as long as you guys aren't communicating, how will you ever know what's really going on?

Count it a blessing for you both that your communication went to pot before marriage, children, all that. Surely you both can find a better match out there somewhere.

If you two do somehow manage to reconcile, you will both have to work hard on your communication skills. Her tendency to bottle up negative feelings, then release them during unrelated situations is very passive aggressive. I wouldn't put up with that, would you?

[Jeffster]

She sounds like a lousy excuse for an ISFP if she's playing mindgames with you or holding grudges. That seems like more of an NF thing to do. ;)

[lookoutbelow84093]

Hmm ok. No I wont put up with passive aggressive to that extreme. Thats why I withdrew. I may have written it poorly, tbh I think she sees me as some needy guy who she thinks she can walk on. Thats the real reason I withdrew. Basically saying that even though your the one who broke it off it doesnt mean you can start treating me like shit. And Im sure there is plenty I did to add to the situation :doh:. But now the anger level is tough. Is reconciling after so much time even possible? I know ISFPs like to "keep moving," do you guys ever date the same person twice? Besides the communication we really had fun and I think fit well.

[Sunshine]

Yeah I'm sorta surprised that this is an ISFP you're talking about but then again...Marie Antoinette was supposedly one so I guess people of all types can be immature or whatever.

Umm well if she really is an ISFP then...hmmm....well the only thing I can think to tell you is to just be sincere and try to talk to her if she won't listen then maybe she's not interested anymore?

lol sorry that I'm not much help. Good luck. :)

[Sunshine]

Hmm ok. No I wont put up with passive aggressive to that extreme. Thats why I withdrew. I may have written it poorly, tbh I think she sees me as some needy guy who she thinks she can walk on. Thats the real reason I withdrew. Basically saying that even though your the one who broke it off it doesnt mean you can start treating me like shit. And Im sure there is plenty I did to add to the situation :doh:. But now the anger level is tough. Is reconciling after so much time even possible? I know ISFPs like to "keep moving," do you guys ever date the same person twice? Besides the communication we really had fun and I think fit well.

She's treating you like shit? :( Uhmm sorry to so blunt but are you sure you want to get back together with her? Well if you really do then the answer to your questioin is yes ISFPs will date the same person twice sometimes.

[runvardh]

She's treating you like shit?

I dated two very immature ones, they seem to have that tendency like every other immature person out there.

[SaltyWench]

Do not reconcile. Just end it. God bless you in your quest for a new job. :( I need not say this, but I'm going to anyway. Work + Relationships = Pain.

[lookoutbelow84093]

Yeah its just really tough to tell if this is the way she really feels or if its just defensiveness or what the deal is. I think ill try one last good attempt to reconcile with her. Any ideas with the best approach, sounds like it needs to be direct, definitely non-confrontational. Email (always saw this as kind of a cheap way out), phone call?

[Sunshine]

Uhm I'd go with in person or on the phone (and out of those I'd pick in person) because I agree with you that e-mail is sorta cheap...and I dunno just seems like people get the message better when they can hear how you're feeling by the tone in your voice. She would be able to hear your sincerity/care/whatever. But that's just my take on it of course.

Yeah, I'd be really straitforward and clear but still gentle (ISFPs are sensitive). Oh and I'm pretty sure that the numero uno thing to do is to strongly and clearly establish that you care (heh but you know that). If she's not talking to you about how she feels or what's going on it might be because she doesn't feel safe being vulnerable with you. ISFPs have a tendency to hold back and to just naturally not communicate with words what's going on. You might have to A) remind her of why it's important to communicate and let her know what's it like on your end when there's no communication on her part
and or B) Ask her a few times if she'll tell you what's going on and reassure her that you care.

Some ISFPs are like flowers sometimes. They'll open and close open and close. It doesn't always take much to make them close...one or two hurtful words and BAM you're talking to a very closed off ISFP. They close easily but they'll open up again if they know they're safe emotionally/psychologically. And like I said before the key there is just to firmly establish that you care, of course.

^Heh ok that paragraph might be totally irrelevant cuz it's only a one or two ISFPs that I know that are like this...I'd need feedback from other ISFPs.


Something tells me that none of that is going to help.
alkehaowhaskhewio
lol sorry. I tried.
Good luck. :)

Edit: I just remembered...ISFPs' weakness (and strength too most of the time) is their heart. If you really do care about her and if you're around her a lot and she's constantly getting the message that you care eventually she'll crack....but if she doesn't care about you romantically then I sort of doubt that she would want to be friends.

Double Edit: Did you want to take a break when she asked for a break? Recalling the reaction she had to suggesting the break I'm thinking she only brought it up to see if you actually wanted the relationship...like suggested the break to see if you would be like "NOOOO." or "Ok." Maybe she's mad because she thought that you didn't really care about her and was dating her for some other reason.

If you didn't really want to take a break you could tell her that. Or if you wanted to take a break because that's what she wanted and you were doing it for her you could tell her that too.

Triple Edit: I actually don't have anything to say it's just that I've never done a triple edit and wanted to try it out. =P =P

[Jeffster]

Some ISFPs are like flowers sometimes. They'll open and close open and close. It doesn't always take much to make them close...one or two hurtful words and BAM you're talking to a very closed off ISFP. They close easily but they'll open up again if they know they're safe emotionally/psychologically. And like I said before the key there is just to firmly establish that you care, of course.

^Heh ok that paragraph might be totally irrelevant cuz it's only a one or two ISFPs that I know that are like this...I'd need feedback from other ISFPs.

Nah, I think that's totally dead on. At least for me. Thankfully, I haven't been hurt too much lately, but on those occasions that I am, I do tend to shut off and keep to myself except around the people I know really well, I might open up to them.

Triple Edit: I actually don't have anything to say it's just that I've never done a triple edit and wanted to try it out. =P =P

:laugh: You're awesome. I have not even pulled off the double edit myself. I bow to your skillz. :worthy:

[sarah]

:hi: ISFPs. If someone has time could you take a look. Really want to help.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/8036-help-isfp.html#post304146


Let's see -- you dated an ISFP woman for a few months and really clicked with her on a sexual basis (or is that not what you mean by "sexual tension?") But she doesn't really know what the heck she wants in a relationship and wants some time alone to figure her feelings out -- and yet, she also wishes you'd persue her anyway.. kind of... Not surprising -- what woman doesn't want to be thought irresistable? ;)

You know what I'd do if I were you? I'd pursue her on a low-key basis. If you happen to see her, wave hi and give her a friendly smile but don't start up a conversation. Mail her a photo of something (some place she loves, or something you've shared together) or write her a short handwritten note once a week, and surprise her with flowers left on her porch every now and then, but don't call her up and don't try to start up the relationship. Just leave the notes in her mailbox and wait to see what happens. Don't say anything about re-connecting in the notes either -- the ball's in her court. If this woman wants you, she's going have to do something to earn your trust, which means she's going to have to risk calling you.

If you get no response after about two months, then I guess you might as well give up on her, but generally speaking, SPs don't like relationships that aren't full of life and passion, and if we're interested in someone, we can be go-getters -- even ISFP women. :)

hope this helps...

Sarah

[Members Only]

The ISFP/INFP relationship is such a hard one to get off the ground, because both types can be very subtle, and non literal in their communications.

It's a shame, because I feel there can be/is a very deep connection between these two types romantically, it's just very hard to 'get' there.

I'm not in favor of typing people for romance, but I have seen enough evidence with ISFP's to know that, I do have a connection with them as an INFP, romantically speaking.

Be warned though, there is a short window with ISFP's; take too long, and they will move on. If things do not progress, the INFP can be caught harboring feelings for said ISFP, long after she/he has moved onto somebody else.

[Sunshine]

lol why does everyone think ISFPs move on so quickly/easily?

[Members Only]

They move on faster than INFP's, that's for sure.

[Sunshine]

They move on faster than INFP's, that's for sure.

point.

[Sunshine]

I thought that she asked for a break just to see how you would react and not really because she wanted a break but maybe she really did just need some time to sort out her feelings. In any case after reading Sarah's advice I'd DEFINITELY go with that. Seriously, you can't go wrong with that.

[observer84]

You know what I'd do if I were you? I'd pursue her on a low-key basis. If you happen to see her, wave hi and give her a friendly smile but don't start up a conversation.
I agree with this generality

Mail her a photo of something (some place she loves, or something you've shared together) or write her a short handwritten note once a week, and surprise her with flowers left on her porch every now and then, but don't call her up and don't try to start up the relationship. Just leave the notes in her mailbox and wait to see what happens.
Sarah

Notes in her mailbox, flowers, sending photos by email isn't such a great idea. Pursue her with your own style, not stalker-style.

[observer84]

lol why does everyone think ISFPs move on so quickly/easily?

Because they live moment-to-moment. But if you are there in the moment, and are around her more, the more she will think about you.

If you disappear, then likely so will her feelings for you. If she has them.

[observer84]

And Im sure there is plenty I did to add to the situation :doh:.

ISFP's are sensitive and not exactly the most rational of types. When you do/say things that hurt her, regardless of your intentions or motives, she will feel betrayed and deeply hurt. Cause-and-effect don't always connect with them, so if did something because of her actions, she will see it independently and not connect the two.

Is reconciling after so much time even possible? I know ISFPs like to "keep moving," do you guys ever date the same person twice? Besides the communication we really had fun and I think fit well.

Yes. It was several (4-5) months in-between my dating the same ISFP. Sunshine's advice is good as well. Sometimes you just have to swallow your pride when dealing with ISFP and not mention all the things she may have done to hurt you. Believe me, she knows she had a hand in the blame and feels bad about it, but bringing it up will close her off to opening up. If you don't mention it, she might just come out and apologize, or she'll be too embarrassed to and hope you had forgotten.

Also, show her that no matter what path your lives take you, you will always care about her and hope the best for her. Unconditional love is a big one for ISFPs, especially since they often have periods of self-doubt and feelings of inadequacy.

[sarah]

I agree with this generality


Notes in her mailbox, flowers, sending photos by email isn't such a great idea. Pursue her with your own style, not stalker-style.

"Stalker style?" From what I understood, they used to date each other and are still on friendly terms, so it's not as if his presence is unwelcome in her life -- it's just she doesn't want a hot and heavy relationship right now. I wouldn't have thought putting a note in her mailbox that says "hi, thought you might like a picture of ___, yours, SoandSo" would be fright-enducing.

Hm... maybe if she feels threatened by receiving flowers from a sort-of boyfriend she's still on friendly terms with, she could simply call him up and leave a message on his voice mail telling him to stop, and he probably would. I guess I'm kind of a romantic in that I think flowers are always welcome, unless theyr'e from someone you hate. Heck, I was always impressed with guys who didn't push me to make decisions but who let me know in sweet, nonverbal gestures that I mattered to them. :D

Sarah

[Sunshine]

Yeah, it's not stalkerish. Don't worry. It's sweet that's what it is. And it's giving her a lil space and putting the ball in her cour. It's a perfect plan IMO.

[lookoutbelow84093]

Well the real issue for me is that I work with her. So I do see her but our interactions arent very long, and the last time I talked to her was 2 weeks ago. She was basically talking somegarbage about me behind my back and I walked in on it. I approached her about it and she got pretty defensive and walked off. Bottom line is I still have feelings for her and I cant tell what her behavior is (ie thin line between love and hate???). I dont feel like I can approach her at work so was thinking a phone call would be in order. Other ppl at work can really get in the way, and always have. I basically want to let her know I can foget the past and have feelings for her, along with some regrets about te relationship ending, but I will not tolerate this kind of behavior at work.

[lookoutbelow84093]

No we are not on good terms. We are on I say hey at work and she may or may not say anything back. Would have to check the other thread for details. So I do see her but our interactions arent very long, and the last time I talked to her was 2 weeks ago. She was basically talking some garbage about me behind my back and I walked in on it. I approached her about it and she got pretty defensive and walked off. Bottom line is I still have feelings for her and I cant tell what her behavior is (ie thin line between love and hate???). I dont feel like I can approach her at work so was thinking a phone call would be in order. Other ppl at work can really get in the way, and always have. I basically want to let her know I can foget the past and have feelings for her, along with some regrets about te relationship ending, but I will not tolerate this kind of behavior at work. Puts me in a really bad spot.
But sarah thats a great idea although may need some adjustment with this^^ Beyond that its tough to know what approach to take. Kinda feel like I was discarded and walked on so part of me wants to fight back and stand my ground. The other part of me wants to be nice... lol damn love is complicated

[Udog]

ISFP leads with Fi, just like the INFP. Fi + Fi is a dangerous recipe, as important things remain unsaid while both people obsess.

[Edahn]

Im a male INFP. I dated a girl (ISFP) at work (I know my own fault)for about 2 months and in the beginning there was some amazing sexual tension and although short, it was fairly intense. We always had some trouble communicating but it seemed like we were getting better at it. In the end she said "lets take a break, I have my hesitations." I said "OK lets take a break then." She said "I didnt expect that to be your answer." In the end I thought we were fairly mature about it. Whew then the fireworks started. Its been really tense with her. I tried to make jokes and keep the mood light but that did not work and I really get the impression im just invading her space. For about 2weeks after that she sometimes made remarks such as "you turned your back on us." I got fed up with games and basically withdrew and stopped talking altogether. So its 4 months later and she often still makes quick angry remarks after things I say (to other people). Ive tried to talk to her a few times and her responses are always very short. I can hold a grudge but damn!
Bottom line... I still have strong feelings for her. I would love to reconcile, even date again, and I think she can sense this, but I always get the feeling im invading her space just by being present at work. I am not sure if I am making her uncomfortable or if I missed something somewhere. ISFPs how can I at least make work more comfortable and let her know that even though I have feelings for her, I respect her decision? Is there anything I can do to reconcile or will she hate me from here on out?

Yo, it sounds like she's playing some games. She brought the relationship into crisis. Why? I'll propose a few ideas:
1. To test your commitment and affection, because she is unsure and is afraid of getting burned.
2. To grab as much power as she could by putting you in the position of needing HER approval, rather than the other way around (which is exactly how she might feel)
3. As a preemptive strike to avoid hurt feelings down the road.

But, whatever he plan was, she didn't execute it well. When she saw that you weren't committed, she got hurt and rejected and still hasn't gotten over it. You see it as holding a grudge, but really, it makes total sense if you consider that her extreme sensitivity to rejection is what started this whole thing. Your feeling that you're invading her space, I'd guess, is actually accurate. You're sensing the resentment she's still holding.

So you probably want to fix everything and continue dating her, right? That's tricky. For one thing, it sounds like she's got some baggage (although maybe, probably, you have some too). For another, abandonment anxiety, especially when hidden inside games, is a tricky thing to work with. You want to make her feel like what she's feeling is okay, but at the same time try and help her out of those cognitive whirlpools.

My intuition tells me you should find a private place to talk to her about what went down, why you said what you said about taking a break, how you feel about her now (without making any commitments to her about the future), what barriers you see, and how you might both work to overcome them. If I were you, I would probably mention something about how you don't really know how things will work out, but that you're curious, and that it'll take some courage on both your parts.

I don't know her, but I'd imagine that this anxiety will creep up in your relationship again. It's a tricky thing to deal with that requires finesse and patience, and good observational skills. You have to pay attention to when it arises and how you deal with it. Lots of peeps just try to cover it up with hot and heavy making out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just stalls things. I say experiment and summon some wisdom in deciding how to work with it. Humor's a great way, but sometimes the situation is too delicate for humor. Play it by ear.

[sarah]

No we are not on good terms. We are on I say hey at work and she may or may not say anything back. Would have to check the other thread for details. So I do see her but our interactions arent very long, and the last time I talked to her was 2 weeks ago. She was basically talking some garbage about me behind my back and I walked in on it. I approached her about it and she got pretty defensive and walked off. Bottom line is I still have feelings for her and I cant tell what her behavior is (ie thin line between love and hate???). I dont feel like I can approach her at work so was thinking a phone call would be in order. Other ppl at work can really get in the way, and always have. I basically want to let her know I can foget the past and have feelings for her, along with some regrets about te relationship ending, but I will not tolerate this kind of behavior at work. Puts me in a really bad spot.
But sarah thats a great idea although may need some adjustment with this^^ Beyond that its tough to know what approach to take. Kinda feel like I was discarded and walked on so part of me wants to fight back and stand my ground. The other part of me wants to be nice... lol damn love is complicated

Oh... I guess I didn't realize things were this strained between you. Sounds like this woman may not be worth pursuing unless (or until) she's done some serious thinking about whether she really wants to be the kind of person who intentionally hurts and badmouths others like that, and she offers you a sincere apology. That kind of behavior, to me, signifies lack of emotional maturity. If you did go the extra mile to keep in touch, I wouldn't blame you if you held your feelings in check until you had reason to trust her better. :(

Sarah

[SaltyWench]

I'm not understanding why you'd continue to pursue this woman.

[sarah]

I'm not understanding why you'd continue to pursue this woman.


For some reason I got INFP stuck in my brain regarding the type of the guy asking the question. I always had a limited tolerance for difficult people. Plus, it was always easier for me to end a relationship if I got hurt. :/

I suspect we SPs tend to be more intolerant of diffcult people. Easy to fall in love, sure, but it's easy to fall OUT of love if things get bad and people start disrespecting you.

Sarah

[Edahn]

Threads merged.

:azdaja:

[SaltyWench]

I suspect we SPs tend to be more intolerant of diffcult people. Easy to fall in love, sure, but it's easy to fall OUT of love if things get bad and people start disrespecting you.

Sarah

Absolutely. If I wanted to get kicked around, I'm flexible enough to do it myself. Plus kicking my own ass doubles as fantastic exercise. Awesome!

[sarah]

Absolutely. If I wanted to get kicked around, I'm flexible enough to do it myself. Plus kicking my own ass doubles as fantastic exercise. Awesome!


Hahahaha! Yeah, but are you sure you wouldn't be "tenderizing" your buns rather than turning them into steel? :D

Seriously, though, I hear you. I think most of us have enough problems when it comes to accepting ourselves realistically, and we don't need ex-boy/girlfriends messing with our brains. I didn't realize there were two threads going on this, and it looks like the other thread had more information, so I've gotta revise what I said earlier -- she's Not Worth It.

To the original poster: I totally understand how you might still have feelings for whatever good qualities this young woman has, but it seems obvious also that she's an immature girl who doesn't realize that she isn't entitled to whatever she wants from people whenever she wants it.

This reminds me of a relationship I had in grad school with an alcoholic guy who was lying to me about a lot of important stuff. It took me a long time to end that relationship, and actually it should have ended sooner than it did, but I was addicted to the parts of it that were wonderful. So I can sympathize with what you're going through. It almost felt like I was breaking myself from an addictive habit. For a while after the breakup, every time I thought of him, I purposely told myself that he had both good and bad qualities and that it was okay for me to think fondly of the to good while at the same time not wanting to be around him because of the way he treated me.

Good luck to you! :)

Sarah
ISFP

[lookoutbelow84093]

Cool thanks all for the replies. Well looks like there is nothing I can do then. Its too bad she really had her cool moments tbh and I felt like if wecould have gotten over the communication problem it could have been really good. Guess have to live and learn.