Why Fs are smarter than Ts

[Martian Manifesto]

I have a theory (it's not mine...I just found it somewhere I can't remember)that seems to annoy my NT friends (mainly INTJs)...and here it is: the reason humans have big brains is because of the F function....think about it, it's the social complexities that causes our most evolved bran functions to evolve...I'm just saying, social dynamics are not "irrational"...they are so compex and quickly changing and the quantities so rich and varied, the qualities so universal and regional at the same time...well you need a big brain for that don't you?...

by the way, I'm in total awe of what INTJs can do...but I like messing with them too...so let's just go crazy with this until one of the NT sees us...then it will be on...

:party:

[Haight]

If you were smarter than me, you wouldn't live in Long Beach.

/thread

[runvardh]

Wow, brilliant. Anyone have a pin, I think something needs a little deflating... :rolli:

[Martian Manifesto]

If you were smarter than me, you wouldn't live in Long Beach.

/thread


ouch...brutal, man...but it's good to know that you do actually have feelings...rage is a feeling...didn't it feel good?...come on...just a little?...you know it did...now go home and think to yourself "self, maybe we should try exercising our feelings more"...i'm telling you, you will want to thank me...which is cool because I when I get further in my masterplan (Intuitive Utopia) then I think there will be some math involved I'm sure...aaaaand...well, I suck at math...so I was really hoping to make some INTP friends...this wasn't a good start was it?...sorry...I'll be better...okay, I really am sorry because I just lied to you...I'm not going to be better...well maybe a little...no, that was a lie too...damn it!

[DigitalMethod]

Did this belief influence your choice of girlfriend?

[runvardh]

ouch...brutal, man...but it's good to know that you do actually have feelings...rage is a feeling...didn't it feel good?...come on...just a little?...you know it did...now go home and think to yourself "self, maybe we should try exercising our feelings more"...i'm telling you, you will want to thank me...which is cool because I when I get further in my masterplan (Intuitive Utopia) then I think there will be some math involved I'm sure...aaaaand...well, I suck at math...so I was really hoping to make some INTP friends...this wasn't a good start was it?...sorry...I'll be better...okay, I really am sorry because I just lied to you...I'm not going to be better...well maybe a little...no, that was a lie too...damn it!

How old are you?

[Martian Manifesto]

Wow, brilliant. Anyone have a pin, I think something needs a little deflating... :rolli:

your mere presence has done so...I am chagrined...I am...deflated

[Blackmail!]

The worst thing is that there is a slight chance he might be correct after all... :huh:

[epsilon72]

Thems fightin' words.

(..I do see your point though)

[Martian Manifesto]

Did this belief influence your choice of girlfriend?


no, I had the girlfriend a long time before I had the theory...oh, I don't actually believe this theory...it stuck in my head when I heard it...naturally I mentioned it to my INTJ friends...it got a good reaction...well not good, but very enlightening :)

[Haphazard]

The worst thing is that there is a slight chance he might be correct after all... :huh:

Nope.

F types are good with social and moral complexities -- the rest are not their forte. So people are the realm of F types, and Ts get... everything else. And does specialization not breed weakness?

The reason they're on even footing is because, being human ourselves, Ts cannot separate themselves from all things 'F', just as F types cannot separate themselves from the harsh realities of an impersonal world.

[Blackmail!]

The reason they're on even footing is because, being human ourselves, Ts cannot separate themselves from all things 'F', just as F types cannot separate themselves from the harsh realities of an impersonal world.

Of course, of course... But that wasn't the point.

It's rather about how our brains evolved, and why.

[colmena]

You unnerve me, MM. It might be all the ellipsis. You know, or something else.

[Dwigie]

I'm not sure if being a F or a T has anything to do with being more intelligent.

[Martian Manifesto]

How old are you?

I can smell my 35th birthday coming up...and my archtypes (the people I talk to in my head...or out loud when I'm alone) tell me I must prepare for a period of extensive extroversion so that I can "balance" myself...apparently (according to Mr. Jung or some such) I have about 15 years to get this accomplished...15 years of being extroverted?...out among the Sensors?...I don't know if I can handle it...(sigh)...

[Martian Manifesto]

I'm not sure if being a F or a T has anything to do with being more intelligent.

says the person who has equal amounts of both...pick a side already

[disregard]

"Smarter?"

Why do people attempt to measure intelligence like height..?

[Haphazard]

"Smarter?"

Why do people attempt to measure intelligence like height..?

Disregard wins the thread.

Nothing to see here. Everyone can go home now.

[Thursday]

I'm not sure if being a F or a T has anything to do with being more intelligent.

cuz it doesn't-but those who are inadequate think so

[Blackmail!]

I'm not sure if being a F or a T has anything to do with being more intelligent.

Intelligence is probably not the right word to use here. "Coping resources", maybe?

I do not reject the idea that F-types may have more ways or strategies to adapt than us T-types. I'm not sure, but that's a definite possibility. I'm open to it.

[Martian Manifesto]

You unnerve me, MM. It might be all the ellipsis. You know, or something else.

That's so funny...I didn't even think about this writing style (I can do several...well not me...each of my personas can do a different one...but I can only be one persona at a time...understand?)...but I did think that it would be very cool if I could be "unnerving"...I did, really...had that exact thought...ah, synchronisity

[Martian Manifesto]

Nope.

F types are good with social and moral complexities -- the rest are not their forte. So people are the realm of F types, and Ts get... everything else. And does specialization not breed weakness?

The reason they're on even footing is because, being human ourselves, Ts cannot separate themselves from all things 'F', just as F types cannot separate themselves from the harsh realities of an impersonal world.

Hello there INTJ, well met...I can always count on you guys...

[DigitalMethod]

That's so funny...I didn't even think about this writing style (I can do several...well not me...each of my personas can do a different one...but I can only be one persona at a time...understand?)...but I did think that it would be very cool if I could be "unnerving"...I did, really...had that exact thought...ah, synchronisity

Oh I get it, you have MPD.

I'm just kidding. I think.

[locke]

There is an inherent complexity in any social group. Not only must we remember the individuals who make up the group, we must also remember the relationships between them–and while the number of individuals increases arithmetically, the number of relationships grows exponentially. If we have 99 people, and add 1 more, we’ve only added one individual, but 99 new relationships. It seems that it was precisely that complexity that drove the growth of the primate brain. If that is true, then the seperation from Australopithecine to Homo was likely driven by a social evolution. This is the same time we start to see the first stone tools, and possibly the first evidence for hunting, rather than scavenging. Hierarchical troops make social groups less complex, by fitting all members into a strict hierarchy–chimpanzees can get by simply remembering the individuals and their rank. Rhizomatic societies–that is, egalitarian societies–have an exponential number of relationships, as each individual relates to every other individual in new and different ways. As humans became hunter-gatherers, the simple hierarchical model that served so many other primates ceased to suffice. We needed to become egalitarian to survive, and in order to do that, we needed bigger brains relative to our bodies.

That's from a thesis written by a friend of mine. He's an INTJ, by the way, so you can't claim the theory upsets all of them.

[Martian Manifesto]

Oh I get it, you have MPD.

I'm just kidding. I think.

I like to think I surf the archtypal stream...MPD sounds so clinical...it infers that I'm insane which is insulting...I'm eccentric...well, very eccentric...but get along very well in the world...I know, I know..you're thinking "that just means your functionally insane"...whatever, man...semantics

That's from a thesis written by a friend of mine. He's an INTJ, by the way, so you can't claim the theory upsets all of them.

an INFP contributes...as it should be...as it should be...good effort...we thank you

That's from a thesis written by a friend of mine. He's an INTJ, by the way, so you can't claim the theory upsets all of them.

by the way, that's what I meant by "enlightening"...I didn't say my INTJ friends got upset...they just got very fired up over the idea...and apparently your friend did as well...fired up enough to write a paper on it...and it would be an INTJ who did it too...those guys never let me down

[DigitalMethod]

I like to think I surf the archtypal stream...MPD sounds so clinical...it infers that I'm insane which is insulting...I'm eccentric...well, very eccentric...but get along very well in the world...I know, I know..you're thinking "that just means your functionally insane"...whatever, man...semantics

No, I didn't think that. I was kidding. Haha, you see? Sigh.

[prplchknz]

to op: :doh:

I haven't read the thread, because I don't feel like it mostly but, no type is smarter then any others. So no Fs are not smarter then Ts . I'm sure if you look you can find morons in every type. Of course you can find smart people in every type aswell.

[Haphazard]

Hello there INTJ, well met...I can always count on you guys...

This shall be a proper gentleman's duel. I choose Blackmail! as my second. We shall meet at high noon tomorrow...

Well, anyway. Intelligence is such an ill-defined concept that it would be impossible to say that Ts are smarter than Fs or vice-versa. People have been trying to argue this sort of thing forever, and we can keep going until the cows come home.

If it's any indication, I believe the Ts started it, however the Fs are the ones who keep retaliating and won't let it die.

[disregard]

an INFP contributes...as it should be...as it should be...good effort...we thank you

What the fuck is this shit?

[DigitalMethod]

Besides, I think that theory assumes that T's can't understand social dynamics.

Social dynamics is the object.
F's get there one way.
T's get there another way.
F's may get there faster than T's but that doesn't mean they are superior.

There is just too much ego in that theory that I find it hard to approach. Shrug.

[Blackmail!]

This shall be a proper gentleman's duel. I choose Blackmail! as my second. We shall meet at high noon tomorrow...

A proper gentleman's duel?

(Scene from Barry Lyndon)

Well, anyway. Intelligence is such an ill-defined concept that it would be impossible to say that Ts are smarter than Fs or vice-versa. People have been trying to argue this sort of thing forever, and we can keep going until the cows come home.

If it's any indication, I believe the Ts started it, however the Fs are the ones who keep retaliating and won't let it die.

Maybe that's part of a game that keeps us all entertained? ;)

[Martian Manifesto]

No, I didn't think that. I was kidding. Haha, you see? Sigh.

I know. I was kidding too. (double sigh). I'm telling you, eventually we will get this right.

[Jack Flak]

Props for Barry Lyndon scene. Good show, man.

[locke]

an INFP contributes...as it should be...as it should be...good effort...we thank you

What the fuck is this shit?

Why is disregard being disregarded? I'm thinking your statement needs a little more explanation too.

[Silently Honest]

http://www.crossroadforums.com/gallery2/d/386667-1/wtf+is+this+shit+piccard.jpg

[Jack Flak]

http://i35.tinypic.com/kccrcj.jpg

[Sytpg]

Relax people. If the claim is that preposterous (reading too much into MBTI is unhealthy to begin with, imo) then there is no need to be upset about it.

[Aerithria]

...think about it, it's the social complexities that causes our most evolved bran functions to evolve...
And here I thought it was because of the muffins.
</crappy joke>

So, just because you're an F means that you automatically understand social complexities? I'd actually attribute that more to the S functions, as they're more likely to be aware of what given actions or statements mean in a regular day-to-day conversation. Let's face it, day dreaming and archetypal connections will only get you so far.

And as people have already mentionned, intelligence can't be mesured, at least not well enough for comparison. Especially since most people have a completely different idea of what defines 'intelligence'.

[animenagai]

eh, it's just a theory. don't think the guy is meant to offend. we can go through this kind of stuff like adults. maybe this will put an end to the T > F threads.

[SquirrelTao]

F doesn't just equate to social interaction. It gets channeled in various ways depending on type. Some Fs would rather write than talk to people. Some would rather focus on something artsy fartsy. Also, I've read that INTJs can have very good intuition about people, even if they don't get this intuition through focusing on other peoples' emotions.

[DigitalMethod]

eh, it's just a theory. don't think the guy is meant to offend. we can go through this kind of stuff like adults. maybe this will put an end to the T > F threads.

I don't think I want to attend that meeting, my head might explode out of sheer complexity.

...Did I just lose my INTJ card?

[Maabus1999]

Judging intelligence and a level of being "smarter" is fool hardy. In the world, no matter who it is, you will find everyone is smarter then you in something. Believing otherwise is arrogance.

It just depends I guess what you value on being part of your measurement scale of being "smarter".

Edit: After reading more of this thread...we have gone thermonuclear lol "WTF is this shit" is classic.

[SquirrelTao]

I don't think I want to attend that meeting, my head might explode out of sheer complexity.

...Did I just lose my INTJ card?

:D

[Firelie]

Gosh, it stinks of troll in here!

[Into It]

Intellect and type are completely unrelated.

[ixquic_creation]

To measure intelligance is absurd.

What TYPE of intelligance, to start with??

For example... logically, I run circles around my counterparts. I'm (forgive the superego) a hellava lot more intelligent than most people my age. And there's a few "adults" that I leave in the dust.

But my introversion holds me back. I can write down what I want to say. When I put the pen to the paper, I exactly what my ideas and thoughts are. But a DEBATE? A conversation? Lord no! A person with a lower IQ could probably quick my ass in 2.5 seconds.

[FDG]

That's from a thesis written by a friend of mine. He's an INTJ, by the way, so you can't claim the theory upsets all of them.

If that's the case, he must have copypasted from Malcom Gladwell's "The Tipping Point".

[ThatGirl]

I have a theory (it's not mine...I just found it somewhere I can't remember)that seems to annoy my NT friends (mainly INTJs)...and here it is: the reason humans have big brains is because of the F function....think about it, it's the social complexities that causes our most evolved bran functions to evolve...I'm just saying, social dynamics are not "irrational"...they are so compex and quickly changing and the quantities so rich and varied, the qualities so universal and regional at the same time...well you need a big brain for that don't you?...

by the way, I'm in total awe of what INTJs can do...but I like messing with them too...so let's just go crazy with this until one of the NT sees us...then it will be on...

:party:

Lol! I like it.

I am not sure about intelligance I guess that would depend on how it is measured but it certainly makes Fs more human by comparrison.

I like my inner cavewoman though too!

[Grayscale]

because Ts tend to adhere to rationality, even if that means becoming unhappy in the process?

[DigitalMethod]

because Ts tend to adhere to rationality, even if that means becoming unhappy in the process?

Unfortunately this defines me too well.

[FDG]

because Ts tend to adhere to rationality, even if that means becoming unhappy in the process?

Rationality is often used in order to assess the best means to achieve a given end. The given end might very well be happiness, thus I think the two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.

[Alpha Prime]

...the reason humans have big brains is because of the F function....think about it...

In that case, the T's would have much smaller brains. Do they?


There is an inherent complexity in any social group. Not only must we remember the individuals who make up the group, we must also remember the relationships between them–and while the number of individuals increases arithmetically, the number of relationships grows exponentially. If we have 99 people, and add 1 more, we’ve only added one individual, but 99 new relationships. It seems that it was precisely that complexity that drove the growth of the primate brain. If that is true, then the seperation from Australopithecine to Homo was likely driven by a social evolution. This is the same time we start to see the first stone tools, and possibly the first evidence for hunting, rather than scavenging. Hierarchical troops make social groups less complex, by fitting all members into a strict hierarchy–chimpanzees can get by simply remembering the individuals and their rank. Rhizomatic societies–that is, egalitarian societies–have an exponential number of relationships, as each individual relates to every other individual in new and different ways. As humans became hunter-gatherers, the simple hierarchical model that served so many other primates ceased to suffice. We needed to become egalitarian to survive, and in order to do that, we needed bigger brains relative to our bodies.

That's from a thesis written by a friend of mine. He's an INTJ, by the way, so you can't claim the theory upsets all of them.

If this is true, then why don't fish that live in schoals have big brains?

[INTJ+ENFJ=INFJ]

I'm an INTJ my son is an INFJ if he was smarter he would have been born first!

[entropie]

lol

hope you all grabbed your stuff, the world is coming to the end xD

[INTJ+ENFJ=INFJ]

...and the two, an INTJ & INFJ shall lead them! For who is smarter the one who has the vision or the one who enhances it?

[entropie]

I bet it is the one with the gun in the end xD

[mlittrell]

I have a theory (it's not mine...I just found it somewhere I can't remember)that seems to annoy my NT friends (mainly INTJs)...and here it is: the reason humans have big brains is because of the F function....think about it, it's the social complexities that causes our most evolved bran functions to evolve...I'm just saying, social dynamics are not "irrational"...they are so compex and quickly changing and the quantities so rich and varied, the qualities so universal and regional at the same time...well you need a big brain for that don't you?...

by the way, I'm in total awe of what INTJs can do...but I like messing with them too...so let's just go crazy with this until one of the NT sees us...then it will be on...

:party:

cmon man...your making ENFP's look retarded. there are different types of intelligence. and brain size doesn't necessarily have to do with intelligence. and T's can be equally good(if not better) at social situations then F's.

*shoulders droop in shame*

[Martian Manifesto]

cmon man...your making ENFP's look retarded. there are different types of intelligence. and brain size doesn't necessarily have to do with intelligence. and T's can be equally good(if not better) at social situations then F's.

*shoulders droop in shame*

I am unaware of how I am making ENFPs look retarded, as I am an INFJ myself.

The title was meant to be provocative so that peole would read the post. My tactic has been successful. Yay for me, with my tiny T.

The post posits a theory of increased brain capacity of humans as a direct impact of the social nature of humans.

This is not my theory. I do not believe in it, but there is somethign "to" it, if you get the difference. I was curious of what that something might be.

There have been a few posts to address the evolutionary question. More would be welcome.

[Frank]

Type doesn't matter. In fact I've known brilliant esfjs.

[Frank]

I am unaware of how I am making ENFPs look retarded, as I am an INFJ myself.

The title was meant to be provocative so that peole would read the post. My tactic has been successful. Yay for me, with my tiny T.

The post posits a theory of increased brain capacity of humans as a direct impact of the social nature of humans.

This is not my theory. I do not believe in it, but there is somethign "to" it, if you get the difference. I was curious of what that something might be.

There have been a few posts to address the evolutionary question. More would be welcome.


Have you ever watched meerkat manor or any discovery channel shows. Social dynamics came way before logical analysis.

[Martian Manifesto]

Have you ever watched meerkat manor or any discovery channel shows. Social dynamics came way before logical analysis.

Yes, I watch both of those shows. There, you have seen my inner geek. By the way, Tony Stark (INTJ) up there and I are very good friends. Whenever a theory comes up that interests one of us but is provocative to the other (T vs F stuff) we can't wait to run and tell the other one.

Strange friendships INFJs & INTJs :) I am certain the stangeness is inherit to the awesomeness.

[Shimpei]

I don't bother reading all the posts.
The OP might be right in the sense that Fs are more likely to be more socially intelligent. According to Daniel Goleman social intelligence has a lot to do with the ability to empathize with others.

[Wrath Mania]

I have a theory (it's not mine...I just found it somewhere I can't remember)that seems to annoy my NT friends (mainly INTJs)...and here it is: the reason humans have big brains is because of the F function....think about it, it's the social complexities that causes our most evolved bran functions to evolve...I'm just saying, social dynamics are not "irrational"...they are so compex and quickly changing and the quantities so rich and varied, the qualities so universal and regional at the same time...well you need a big brain for that don't you?...

by the way, I'm in total awe of what INTJs can do...but I like messing with them too...so let's just go crazy with this until one of the NT sees us...then it will be on...

:party:


For the sake of the thread, I'll assume you're right: Fs have bigger brains.

But apparently Ts have less self-esteem problems. : D

[mlittrell]

For the sake of the thread, I'll assume you're right: Fs have bigger brains.

But apparently Ts have less self-esteem problems. : D

Wrath Mania FTW

[Martian Manifesto]

For the sake of the thread, I'll assume you're right: Fs have bigger brains.

But apparently Ts have less self-esteem problems. : D

I don't think either are necessarilly true. But it sounds funny so I may repeat it, if you don't mind.

[GZA]

I don't understand the idea that thinking functions would be smarter anyway. I really don't think either is "smarter" because there are so many different forms of intelligence. Each function is like a form of intelligence in itself...

[Haphazard]

I don't understand the idea that thinking functions would be smarter anyway. I really don't think either is "smarter" because there are so many different forms of intelligence. Each function is like a form of intelligence in itself...

Yeah. If intelligence has to do with T or F, wouldn't this make perceiving doms less smart, because their 'intelligence' isn't so inherent to them?

[mlittrell]

how does all of this pertain to the real world? what is the point you are trying to make. you may have posted it a couple pages back but i don't feel like going through and finding it. I'm just curious.

[Martian Manifesto]

how does all of this pertain to the real world? what is the point you are trying to make. you may have posted it a couple pages back but i don't feel like going through and finding it. I'm just curious.

It doesn't. I apologize.

[mlittrell]

ok thank you for the explaination. i was just wondering if you were getting at something or just theorizing (<-- sp?).

[Rachelinpa]

I like messing with them too...so let's just go crazy with this until one of the NT sees us...then it will be on...

:party:

Pot stirrer.

[Martian Manifesto]

Pot stirrer.

Indeed

[ngannacvy]

I have a theory (it's not mine...I just found it somewhere I can't remember)that seems to annoy my NT friends (mainly INTJs)...and here it is: the reason humans have big brains is because of the F function....think about it, it's the social complexities that causes our most evolved bran functions to evolve...I'm just saying, social dynamics are not "irrational"...they are so compex and quickly changing and the quantities so rich and varied, the qualities so universal and regional at the same time...well you need a big brain for that don't you?...

by the way, I'm in total awe of what INTJs can do...but I like messing with them too...so let's just go crazy with this until one of the NT sees us...then it will be on...

:party:

Yeah, let's just go crazy with this!

but anyways it might just be the "F" function that drives many of us to learn and be smart, because I probably wouldn't do anything with out a reason or motive behind it. And usually my reason is because I'm FEELING carious.

And the Greek philosopher Aristotle taught that the highest form of reasoning and thinking took place in "the heart"...And he's a smart dude right... This term is echoed when a lover says "my heart yearns for you"

I don't understand the idea that thinking functions would be smarter anyway. I really don't think either is "smarter" because there are so many different forms of intelligence. Each function is like a form of intelligence in itself...

I agree with that Ideal Intelligence and type has nothing to do with each other.

by the way, I'm in total awe of what INTJs can do...but I like messing with them too...so let's just go crazy with this until one of the NT sees us...then it will be on...
:party:

ditto... I think NT are great! I find them so cool and interesting. And I love how they're so Independent, how they can think and do for themselves and usually don't needs others to help them...But I still find it entertaining on my part to mess with them a little, I like seeing their reactions.

[prplchknz]

this thread needs to: http://www.cs.csubak.edu/~syang/cs211/earth_explode.jpg and never be seen again, in fact all threads like this need this and the creators needs a http://www.katrinasawa.com/uploaded_images/KickButt-711202.gif