how do you get an INFP to discuss complex issues?

[lukin4intellect]

hi all, what an excellent site! cant believe I didnt find it earlier!

ok so Im an ESTJ, and I like discussing stuff, having a good deep conversation.

My wife is an INFP and does NOT like talking ... mostly I think because Im an ESTJ and annoy the hell out of her with my logic.

sooo ... how do you get an INFP to discuss stuff? what can I do so she can open up more?

also, anyone else notice a complete lack of intimacy with INFP females?

thanks a bunch

lukin

[runvardh]

Either your woman is weird or you might be a portion of the problem. I'll let the ladies here talk about their intimacy if they'd like, but I think you should take stock of how you are when initiating and carrying on the conversation. How much do you let her say? How much do you let her mind run over things? Do you talk about things she's acutally interested in? Do you interrupt her when she says something that makes something pop in your head? I think those questions will do for now, though I'm sure there are more that can be asked.

[heart]

My wife is an INFP and does NOT like talking ... mostly I think because Im an ESTJ and annoy the hell out of her with my logic.

sooo ... how do you get an INFP to discuss stuff? what can I do so she can open up more?

lukin

Back off and let her open up at her own pace. I'd guess the more she feels hunted and pressured, the less she'll be able to open up.

Also try not to be overzealous about "defeating" her with logic.

[lookoutbelow84093]

I agree with Heart. Let her open up in time. You might stimulate her by asking what she thinks about something. When she does open up make sure you are listening, not interjecting, and make her feel safe in saying what she thinks. INFPs love possibilities so sometimes they just talk to explore them. But I would definitly show that you appreciate listening to what she thinks, even if you might not agree or think the same way.

[Angry Ayrab]

One thing is that ESTJ's aren't the smoothest SO's out their and INFP's are very very sensitive. I know this because my dad is an ESTJ and thinks... wait he knows he is the hottest shit since sliced bread. Well, on a serious note, what I noticed over and over again with my father and mother was that my father really sucked at being sensitive to my mothers (IsFJ) emotions. He was always dropping little one liners that would piss the shit out of her and ruin her day and always good at making snood little comments that would aggrevate anyone to no ends. He was always superior and always right to everyone except now that my brothers and I are older, he actually listens to us and heeds our warnings. I don't know, I am just rambling off memories but would not mind going into details with you.

[Udog]

ok so Im an ESTJ, and I like discussing stuff, having a good deep conversation.

My wife is an INFP and does NOT like talking ... mostly I think because Im an ESTJ and annoy the hell out of her with my logic.

sooo ... how do you get an INFP to discuss stuff? what can I do so she can open up more?

also, anyone else notice a complete lack of intimacy with INFP females?


The lack of deep conversation and intimacy are likely linked to a deeper issue. My concern is that she may have closed off her emotional, deeper side of herself off to you. How healthy is the rest of your marriage?

Also, what does a deep conversation mean to you? Why do you enjoy deeper conversations? What do you engage in deep conversations for? I'm curious if your idea of a deep conversation meshes with her idea of a deep conversation.

[Jennifer]

Back off and let her open up at her own pace. I'd guess the more she feels hunted and pressured, the less she'll be able to open up.

Also try not to be overzealous about "defeating" her with logic.

Without knowing anything else about the situation except that the OP is an ESTJ talking to an INFP... yes, this about sums it up.

What to you might just seem to be "debating" or even just "discussing" could come off as dismissive or belittling to her, especially if you are very Te and/or have little respect for N-style perception.

INFPs usually like harmony. It puts her in a bind -- either she has to silence her own inner judgment and outer vision to avoid conflict with you (hence, no intimacy), or she has to let herself get bloodied and bruised to engage you in your style of conversation.

One strategy is, every time you open your mouth to reply, shut it again -- except perhaps to ask, "Could you explain a bit more what you're seeing her / what you are thinking?" And make sure she's done before leaping in to challenge a point you find as illogical... if in fact you do that.

I don't know how you relate, but just remember that sometimes a discussion can just be about putting the cards on the table so you can learn each other's perspective and not necessarily about knocking the other person's cards off the table even if you think you can.

[Tropics]

She's not opening up to you because she is probably sensing that you won't value her point of view or you're gonna shut it down with overbearing LOGIC which she reads as insensitivity, intimidation and "He thinks I'm an idiot". What do you mean by you annoy the hell out of her with your logic? Is it that her opinions seem a bit dreamy to you and you always feel the need to give her a good dose of reality! If that is so OUCH! You just stepped all up on her INFP toes which equals shutdown time. She somehow isn't feeling totally accepted by you, once she feels you accept and appreciate her and her opinions and you stop trying to "one up" her with your logic which to her signals competition,conflict and disharmony, you'll find a very open INFP woman.

[runvardh]

I'd like to know if the OP has come back to read what everyone is saying...

[Udog]

... hasn't logged on since yesterday.

[heart]

Hey, I wanna know what the bullsh*t tag is for? What are you calling bullsh*t on in this thread?

When I dated a ESTx, I am never sure if he was J or P, I always clamed up around him because he used his logic like a bull smashing through a china cabinet. He complained that I was too quiet but it was because it never felt warm or safe to open up to him and I lost interest in opening up to him. We just weren't good for each other.

I sincerely hope he found eventually someone who found that sexy because I sure didn't. :( But from all the evidence I can see, he still ain't happy.

[sciski]

Check your tone as well - NFPs pick up on lots of extraneous signals that you might not know you're giving. My ISTJ ex-housemate had a very dry and sardonic tone which gave her little comments an edge of nastiness that I'm still not sure she intended. The same line spoken by my ESFP friend would sound like a joke. I'm guessing something similar is happening with you-you might be saying and intending all the right things, but your tone or body language or expression is putting her off.

I have no problems getting INFP women to open up (then again, I'm an F-woman)- it's a matter of listening and expressing that what they say has value to you. Expand on what they say and build upon their thoughts. My guess is that your INFP has offered you some base to build on in the past and you've torn it down with your logic, thinking that's what she wanted. Nope! NFPs tend to look for synergy, where the smaller parts ---> larger whole.

You'll know you've clicked with her when she lights up completely and talks at you for about 4 solid hours.

[runvardh]

I think unless it looks like the ESTJ cares enough to see the other side to begin with, these sorts of threads can almost be ignored... *sigh*

[heart]

I think unless it looks like the ESTJ cares enough to see the other side to begin with, these sorts of threads can almost be ignored... *sigh*

He cared enough to post and ask the question. What he choses to do with what is said, well that's his business. At least he's curious enough to inquire.

[runvardh]

He cared enough to post and ask the question. What he choses to do with what is said, well that's his business. At least he's curious enough to inquire.

But I'm also seeing a pattern between the tone an ESTJ uses when posting an OP and what kind of participation the person is going to engage in. Good on him for his "supposed" curiosity, but this really felt more like him just wanting some place to bitch about his personal issue.

[heart]

But I'm also seeing a pattern between the tone an ESTJ uses when posting an OP and what kind of participation the person is going to engage in. Good on him for his "supposed" curiosity, but this really felt more like him just wanting some place to bitch about his personal issue.

He could have gone to any "man's issues" board online and recieved tons of "she's too emotional" and "I wouldn't put up with that!" if all he was looking for was to vent. I think he was sincere.

[runvardh]

He could have gone to any "man's issues" board online and recieved tons of "she's too emotional" and "I wouldn't put up with that!" if all he was looking for was to vent. I think he was sincere.

I guess it just bothers me when they only post enough to make some assumptions on while I'd rather clarify what's really happening before I give pointers. Kinda need feedback/replies to answers to really tailor suggestions appropreately. I guess I feel cheated in my caring...

[heart]

I guess it just bothers me when they only post enough to make some assumptions on while I'd rather clarify what's really happening before I give pointers. Kinda need feedback/replies to answers to really tailor suggestions appropreately. I guess I feel cheated in my caring...

That's the thing about caring, caring has to be taliored to what the person being cared for needs or at least that they can feel free to take what they need from what's been said without feeling pressured or put upon. It's more about the person being cared for than the caretaker. Just have to assume if he needed to or was able to go deeper with the topic then he would have and either he got what he needed here or was unable to go deeper here. Either way, it's about him and not me so I don't sweat it. I said what I felt moved to say and hope that it helped him more than hurt.

[Angry Ayrab]

Holy crap Runvardh, but you might want to take a seat on the toilet before you read this because I gaurantee you it will make you shit yourself.

Are you seated? Good.


Here is a plausible, but in our xNxP world highly doubtful, explanation for why he hasn't responded yet. There could be, and get this, a slight possiblety that the man got busy with something and has not had time to respond to us.? Or he has his internet time scheduled for a certain amount of hours at certain times or something else of that nature. Maybe he no longer feels comfortable disscussing the issue with us anymore. These are all possible and highly acceptable reasons for not responding immedietly.

Also, we usually reply to posts not because we want some kind of response, but usually to give some input we see relevant to the situtation or maybe helpful. I assume you do this also, so don't sweat it if he doesn't respond.

[runvardh]

Thank you mister wise guy :rolli:

[heart]

Here is a plausible, but in our xNxP world highly doubtful, explanation for why he hasn't responded yet. There could be, and get this, a slight possiblety that the man got busy with something and has not had time to respond to us.? Or he has his internet time scheduled for a certain amount of hours at certain times or something else of that nature. Maybe he no longer feels comfortable disscussing the issue with us anymore. These are all possible and highly acceptable reasons for not responding immedietly.

Also, we usually reply to posts not because we want some kind of response, but usually to give some input we see relevant to the situtation or maybe helpful. I assume you do this also, so don't sweat it if he doesn't respond.

^
I agree with the content, even if the tone was a bit harsh.

[Angry Ayrab]

^
I agree with the content, even if the tone was a bit harsh.

Heart, you are right, the tone comes off as overly crude and I just wanted to let you guys know it was not written with malice intended, only playfull humor.

[Edahn]

How about you tell us a little bit more about how these conversations tend to go, what you think might be going on, whether you've ever asked her about opening up and your communication attempts, and what she thinks about all this. That ay we can give better advice.

[lukin4intellect]

hi all, sorry, been really busy!

these responses really helped! also, Ive been reading "16 ways to love your lover" and it is soooo amazing! everything you guys/gals said here, is so true. Im going to try being ... nicer and have more heart! Im sure that'll help!

thanks so much for evreyone's help.

also, see my next post ... Im wondering if anyone has seen any material on combining Types with other tendencies like lack of self-esteem, confidence, controlling ... etc. etc.

later!

M

[lukin4intellect]

ahh, ok so I just saw all the posts on the second page ... dudes, dudettes ... what Type assumes negative on other people's behalfs? :) chillax, read my post before this one.

and, thanks "Heart"! :)

also, how come we cant subscribe to these threads? thats one way to keep people coming back ... oh oh, there's my J coming out. heheheh!