How do types perceive IQ tests?

[Blackmail!]

Greetings!


Well, I'm not here to discuss if there is a correlation between types and high IQ, as this has already been discussed before (see here: -> http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/other-psychology-topics/1731-mbti-type-i-q.html)
No, I would rather be curious to see how various types perceive what IQ really is, what this test means for them, and how eventually they fantasize or describe it.

So far, when I wander on several MBTI fora, I've noticed these trends:

1- Amongst the NTs, ENTPs are the ones who care the least about IQ: According to a thread we had on ENTP.org several months ago, most of them would immediatley claim it's complete BS, and most of the time with good reasons (according to my own point of view too).

2- On the other hand, the INTJ forum seems litteraly obsessed with IQ scores, especially when they need to brag about it. It's like a kind of religion, they seem to develop a special faith into IQs.
This is somewhat perplexing because a lot of so-called INTJs use wrong datas, or obviously lie like dogs when it comes to their real IQ. The average score they pretend to achieve is just statistically impossible (1). And moreover, a lot seem to believe very strongly to an unchecked and very unreliable source claiming that INTJs would have the best IQs overall (Even if this contradicts the only real scientific study made on this subject).

3- On INFP-GC, IQ scores seem both a fascinating and repulsive subject. Some brag, some don't, it's quite even.

4- INTP's attitude seem to be a mix of the three previous cases. Some are complete sceptics (just like their Extroverted brethrens), but some enjoy to display vastly exaggerated scores, and may react very angrily when you contradict them (just like an INTJ would).

---

Of course, there is some debate amongst the INTJs, because we all know that a lot of the people who are on the INTJ forum aren't real INTJs, but people who, for a reason or another, fantasize about INTJ's alleged smartness, and hence, want to be part of them.
In my opinion, a true INTJ would never ever dare to display an unchecked data as an undisputable proof, or pretend not to notice how insane and unbelievable most of their claims are. But anyway, the debate remains open.

---

So, how do you perceive IQs? How do you think your type would perceive it, and why? How does this perception affect type, according to you?
Why are so many so-called "INTJs" awful liars when it comes to IQ (even if this contradicts their type description)?
According to your own opinion, what are the psychological reasons behind this odd behaviour? How could you explain it?

---

(1) Humiliating Jezebel on this subject was quite entertaining, indeed. :harhar: This had convinced me that even INTJs can have a very irrational side, when some refuse mathematical evidences with the last drop of energy.

[mippus]

Just a side remark: I don't think the INTP's position is that random, it just depends on the score they got... (intellectual macho's)

[Blackmail!]

Just a side remark: I don't think the INTP's position is that random, it just depends on the score they got... (intellectual macho's)

Probably!!! :laugh:

[entropie]

I guess IQ as a normal distributed probability measurement of the performance of the brain is definitly a Te thing.

But and that contradicts to my theory, I found intrest in that topic in iNFj aswell. There would be a Ni - Se connection there.

Further study is needed here :)

[sophiedoph]

Just a side remark: I don't think the INTP's position is that random, it just depends on the score they got... (intellectual macho's)

The INTPs I know are all very intelligent. One taught himself to read at 3, and scored 156 on IQ tests.

He doesn't feel particularly smart, however.

Back to the main point, this INFJ (who has a high IQ score too), does not place much value on IQ as a determinant of probable intellectual/academic achievement, but as an indicator of probable issues.

High IQ folk have a disproportionate amount of psychological problems, chief among them depression, anxiety, etc. Children with high IQs require a lot of monitoring of emotional problems as well as academic stimulation to continue to do well in school.

I don't view IQ as an "achievement" or something to be "proud of." God knows some of the ones who have accomplished the most in this world have *not* been gifted, but have been smart and hard working.

[Blackmail!]

I guess IQ as a normal distributed probability measurement of the performance of the brain is definitly a Te thing.

But and that contradicts to my theory, I found intrest in that topic in iNFj aswell. There would be a Ni - Se connection there.

Further study is needed here :)

According to the only reliable statistic we have so far, high IQ seems slightly correlated to iNtuitives. But there's almost no difference between F and T types, nothing significant (in fact, Feelers seem to have a very, very tiny advantage!! :D).

But I think you mean that Te-types would especially be attracted to concepts like IQ?

[CaptainChick]

I appreciate intellect but I especially value insight and ingenuity.

Creative geniuses tend not to score especially high on IQ tests.

Lastly, I'm never impressed by one's IQ, instead, or rather, I am impressed by one's *actual* intellect, granted the two *may* be correlated, but that correlation I'm not too interested in.

[sophiedoph]

Nicely put--I agree.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

The original purpose of IQ was to be a predictor for which children would be successful as adults. Since then they have shown that there is a correlation between IQ and success, but it is not the only factor, nor is it even the most important factor. Therefore I wouldn't say that an IQ score is totally meaningless, but I would say that the concept is outdated.

[entropie]

Did they throw away the children that got low IQ's ?

[Didums]

IQ is not an accurate measure of Intelligence as a whole but is definitely an indicator of 'giftedness' in the subjects that it does cover.

[Blackmail!]

As for my opinion, I'd say IQ tests are an accurate measure... on how you are able to pass IQ tests. :D

They do measure something, but it is really "intelligence" or "giftedness"?

[Didums]

As for my opinion, I'd say IQ tests are an accurate measure... on how you are able to pass IQ tests. :D

They do measure something, but it is really "intelligence" or "giftedness"?

Yep, just how like School is an accurate measure of how well you can do in School :)

There is a positive correlation in that people with higher IQs usually have more intellectually straining jobs but it doesn't mean that there can't be exceptions to the trend. I'm still not sure whether it can or can't be a definite indicator of a higher level of intellect, I think one would have to take a leap of faith to go to either side of the argument. Correlation does not imply causation (high iq may very well come from doing intellectually straining jobs instead of the high iq making you go to the job in the first place, or a combination of both, who knows).

[Dwigie]

Well..I have an average IQ, I hate it when people "brag", there is nothing wrong with being smart, I understand that they're proud but some show it repeatedly so that we "won't forget"...xD.."we get it", we're happy for you.
I think EQs should be raised, though :).

[EJCC]

I've never taken and IQ test, and I really have no motivation to. It doesn't measure intelligence - it measures how you were raised to think. Scores go up every year, and not because we're getting smarter. They're going up because that method of thinking is becoming more and more ingrained in our society.

I'm not sure if my distrust of it (based on an article I read about it) is an SJ thing or not. Any other SJs agree?

EDIT:
As for my opinion, I'd say IQ tests are an accurate measure... on how you are able to pass IQ tests. :D

They do measure something, but it is really "intelligence" or "giftedness"?

Well, you seem to have made my point before me... I guess this post was meaningless. :blush:

[entropie]

Just did an IQ test, for the first time in my life. Look I am a genius xD

http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l150.gif

Free IQ Test - IQ Test Score (http://www.free-iqtest.net/score.asp?id=4901057)

[FDG]

Of course, IQ tests measure how well you do on IQ tests and tasks that are similar to IQ tests. I'm not sure they can predict anything else.

[entropie]

That I will put in my signature, gonna get some girls with this :D

[whatever]

IQ tests have been proven to be culturally biased and such, and if a test can be skewed on something like culture and such I'm not so sure that it's an accurate measure of much except for the test taker's test taking ability. And success on an IQ test certainly doesn't translate to success in real life in any manner- being hard working or motivated and such also play as big or a bigger role in that.

Basically- IQ tests are just another way to sort and rank people, sort of like phrenology :rolli:

I score well, but I credit that to the fact that I associate standardized tests with food and LOVE taking them because of it :doh:

[Blackmail!]

Well, again, we seem to have a quick consensus amongst ENTPs (just like we had on ENTP.org)... I'm not that surprised, as ENTPs usually tend to criticize any normative systems, and IQ tests sure are one. Ne-Ti is a very destructive/sarcastic axis, as much as it is enthusiastic/creative.

But I would be curious to listen what the other side has to say. And, if possible, which functions are involved. There are people who enjoy IQ tests; let's see why...
The object of this thread is not to criticize their preference, but to understand it, how it is so.

[Blackmail!]

Well, you seem to have made my point before me... I guess this post was meaningless. :blush:

It never is. Even if our posts may seem redundant somehow, the main idea here is to share as much opinions as possible, so we can see if there's a pattern (or not, or something else, who knows?).

So you're welcome, and I thank you. :)

[Lateralus]

Just did an IQ test, for the first time in my life. Look I am a genius xD

http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l150.gif

Free IQ Test - IQ Test Score (http://www.free-iqtest.net/score.asp?id=4901057)
Beat ya!

http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l153.gif

I don't think type has anything to do with how people view IQ tests. However, type does have a strong influence over shoe preference.

[entropie]

nooooooooo :D

[EJCC]

It never is. Even if our posts may seem redundant somehow, the main idea here is to share as much opinions as possible, so we can see if there's a pattern (or not, or something else, who knows?).

So you're welcome, and I thank you. :)

:hug: You too!

So, you may have a consensus among ENTPs, but what about SJs? Where my peeps at???? What do you guys think? (I'm thinking that our Ne sarcasm that Blackmail was talking about will have something to do with our opinion on the subject.)

[entropie]

From my SJ's dudes I know, they dont care about IQ tests. But if they could score in a particular moment with them, they would. But who wouldnt ? xD

[Jeffster]

I don't see much use for them, personally. But if you do, more power to ya.

That's the same attitude I have about a lot of things, though. ;)

[Santtu]

Well, I've got some mix of ideas. In a summary, IQ and the so-called "mathematical" intelligence or whatnot actually means hell of a lot, and so-called "body-kinestetic-IQ" and other similar are completely bogus, along with "dancing techno in moonlight with candle wax in your ears-IQ".

Those alternate IQ ideas spawn up for some reason, god knows why.

Then again, IQ is about adaptive leverage, having some capability that would enhance your survival, well-being and propagation of genes. So it's about success? We can measure whatever is valued at some place at any one moment, and say that the successful ones have high IQ? I think not.

The classic IQ is the most worthy "IQ" to be thought of, tho other issues matter a great deal. Things like skills, knowledge, etc. Many things that are trainable for the most part, like sociability and such.

I think I have an amalgam of values, where success alone, and not theoretical test-performance alone can measure an individual's capability. Measures that include anything from 20% to 80% of each variable are acceptable to me.

[animenagai]

i used to be obsessed with IQ tests. i would score above the average (120-130. nothing too crazy) and i kinda liked it. anything for me to get to know myself is a good thing. however, when i took a psychology class ad they told me that IQ tests were made to test how well kids will do in school, i was highly unimpressed. it doesn't really test intelligence at all, but how much of the stuff you've learned and retained. it only calculates the results and not the process itself. furthermore, as CC stated, creativity etc. is simply unmentioned. that's just shit.

i can see why IQ tests have their place in the world but i'm always gonna take that information with a grain of salt.

[ygolo]

Beat ya!

http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l153.gif

I don't think type has anything to do with how people view IQ tests. However, type does have a strong influence over shoe preference.

Meaningless drivel.

http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l160.gif

Actually, correlation with abstract-logical and/or pattern matching activities makes sense. But there is a lot more to intelligence. I thikn the multiple-intelligence model is more accurate. IQ, I thought, had been debated to death on this forum.

[FDG]

Well, again, we seem to have a quick consensus amongst ENTPs (just like we had on ENTP.org)... I'm not that surprised, as ENTPs usually tend to criticize any normative systems, and IQ tests sure are one. Ne-Ti is a very destructive/sarcastic axis, as much as it is enthusiastic/creative.

But I would be curious to listen what the other side has to say. And, if possible, which functions are involved. There are people who enjoy IQ tests; let's see why...
The object of this thread is not to criticize their preference, but to understand it, how it is so.

Well I personally "enjoy" them because I am good at the tasks contained in IQ tests and I find them to be "fun". But that's all...

[LunarMoon]

The original purpose of IQ was to be a predictor for which children would be successful as adults.
Not even that. IQ tests were originally developed to organize French school children into specific classes. It was only after the tests were translated into English and shipped to America that they became associated with success. Binet himself was starkly against the use of I.Q. in this manner and publicly decried against it (http://books.google.com/books?id=FcrjfuicujMC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=binet,+intelligence,+malleable&source=web&ots=Q96BarWOEF&sig=O1BZi8ugEQFmyX-4IV0Vo7LXpnA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result) (Fancher, 1985). The I.Q. test that we know today was the invention of Lewis Terman of Stanford University, hence the name, the Stanford-Binet I.Q. Test.

I guess IQ as a normal distributed probability measurement of the performance of the brain is definitly a Te thing.


But I think you mean that Te-types would especially be attracted to concepts like IQ?
Only when that method of quantification is not obviously false. I think they’re rubbish. Few of the Mensa Club’s members have actually gone on to any form of prominence, the original tests failed to even define what they were specifically attempting to measure, there have been various accusations of racist and sexist leaning throughout its 100 years of practice, famed scientists throughout history have tested poorly on the test, correct answers on the test are meant to line up with the conventional thinking process of the test makers, historical genius has more to do with creativity than the aspects the tests attempt to measure, I.Q. shows no correlation with creativity after the 120 I.Q. benchmark, and while I.Q. has been linked to a rather vague idea of success actual net worth has shown no scientific correlation. It’s a good thing that this method has been falling out of favor lately; its now being replaced by various forms of the multiple intelligence theory instead.

[animenagai]

god damn it!

http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l155.gif

second best, o well :D. this is a very liberal IQ test, or maybe i just tried harder on this one.

[Grayscale]

borderline useless

[Lateralus]

Meaningless drivel.

http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l160.gif

Actually, correlation with abstract-logical and/or pattern matching activities makes sense. But there is a lot more to intelligence. I thikn the multiple-intelligence model is more accurate. IQ, I thought, had been debated to death on this forum.
Well, I took that test with my brain at 50% capacity due to lack of sleep. That would put my IQ at over 300 if I was operating at full capacity. :cool:

[Night]

Iron Sulfide

[mippus]

Isn't IQ one of those magic subjects, like income and penis-size, that people always lie about?

[Splittet]

The average score they pretend to achieve is just statistically impossible (1). And moreover, a lot seem to believe very strongly to an unchecked and very unreliable source claiming that INTJs would have the best IQs overall (Even if this contradicts the only real scientific study made on this subject).

The INTJs posting their IQs are not representative, so you cannot say it is statistically impossible. INTJs with low IQ scores compared to the rest will simply not post them... You should also note forum posters on MBTI boards are probably not representative at all either. Many have probably taken several tests and only post their best result as well.

As far as INTJs and IQ goes, they are among the most intelligent types, with an average IQ of 110 or something along those lines. INTPs are the most intelligent though. It's true the source they refer to is ridiculous.

[Blackmail!]

The INTJs posting their IQs are not representative, so you cannot say it is statistically impossible. INTJs with low IQ scores compared to the rest will simply not post them...

No.

I only considered the odd that dozens of people of 150+ IQ could suddenly met together on the same fora, and found 1 out of several trillions.

A lot pretented to have 160+ and higher. Well, there should be only a few thousand people like this in the whole USA. Three dared to reach 170+. Since one was currently living in Chicago, he probably was the smartest man alive in the whole Chicago urban area... Should I continue?
We don't even have that amount of high IQs in Harvard or the MIT, so what the hell would they be doing on INTJ-f? :glasses:

And again, it wasn't just one occasional liar or two, as the whole forum was like this. Only a few INTJ (the most rational ones, a minority) had the courage to explain that the whole thread was a statistical nonsense.

---

You can also check the INTJ self-descriptions you can gather on youtube, and you will quickly notice that IQs and alleged intelligence superiority is one of their obsessions.
Everywhere you find INTJ or so-called INTJs, you will see this trend. So my question is why?

Many have probably taken several tests and only post their best result as well.

Doesn't change my point, because it means they are liars too. :nono:

[Splittet]

No.

I only considered the odd that dozens of people of 150+ IQ could suddenly met together on the same fora, and found 1 out of several trillions.

A lot pretented to have 160+ and higher. Well, there should be only a few thousand people like this in the whole USA. Three dared to reach 170+. Since one was currently living in Chicago, he probably was the smartest man alive in the whole Chicago metropolis... Should I continue?
We don't even have that amount of high IQs in Harvard or the MIT, so what the hell would they be doing on INTJ-f? :glasses:

And again, it wasn't just one occasional liar or two, as the whole forum was like this. Only a few INTJ (the most rational ones, a minority) had the courage to explain that the whole thread was a statistical nonsense.



Doesn't change my point, because it means they are liars too. :nono:

Well, I haven't read the actual thread, but it seems to me like you are making the assumption these INTJs are representative, and they aren't. People who post their IQ are different from people who don't, and people who post on MBTI boards are different from those who don't. Both groups are probably more intelligent than the average person. Extreme IQs like 160+ are also very hard to measure, and let's say these people have taken many tests, many bad online tests even, and are just posting their best result, while they in reality are let's say people with IQs of 150, that's quite believable. Also most of these people are talking about ratio IQs probably, and not deviation IQs, making their scores far less extreme. Some might be lying just to prove how stupid IQ tests are though, some as experiments...

[Blackmail!]

Isn't IQ one of those magic subjects, like income and penis-size, that people always lie about?

Now that's a smart answer. But if you ask this question on INTJ-f, most people will tell you that INTJs never lie, as they are supposed to be "the most objective" type.
Indeed, they usually are. But why are they here, suddenly in self-denial?
That's an interesting mystery.

Nonetheless... If I follow your idea, maybe we can correlate the need to brag about high IQ with a particular lack of self-assurance?

Maybe we can relate this trend to one of their most terrifying fear, so overwhelming that they temporarily lose the ability to remain objective? :unsure:

[Haphazard]

Now that's a smart answer. But if you ask this question on INTJ-f, most people will tell you that INTJs never lie, as they are supposed to be "the most objective" type.

Stop confusing INTJs with INTPs. We look similar, but we're not that similar.

[alicia91]

I don't care at all about IQ scores, I value what people do with the talents which they were given.

[Blackmail!]

Stop confusing INTJs with INTPs. We look similar, but we're not that similar.

Yes, you're not. :D

I'm not confusing anything, and you know it, little Hap'! (:hi:)

[murkrow]

If I know you IQ is high I will probably bust your ass if you don't bust your ass.

[Peguy]

I have a general problem with the whole philosophical underpinnings behind the concept of IQ tests: namely that human intellectual abilities can actually be quantitatively measured on a standardized level.

This is a very flawed understanding of human nature, born out of the general notions of standardization and positivistic scientism that developed during the Industrial revolution(which of course is the era that intelligence testing began). I could go on endlessly on this subject, but frankly I'm too intellectually exhausted to do so.

As far as MBTI and IQ is concerned; MBTI seems to show me the numerous fallacies of IQ testing, or rather the over-reliance of it. Different types have different abilities of comprehending the world, which seems more compatible with the notion of multiple intelligences. Humanity is so much more multi-faceted in its nature.

IQ measures one form of intelligence(Mathematical-logical), and has relevance in that regards. But determining one's overall mental capacities(much less the worth of a human person, as Bell Curve fanatics often do) based on IQ is simply absurd. As people have already pointed out, numerous great minds have tested poorly on these tests - especially more creative minds.

There's also the philosophical issue of is life a mystery or a problem? If life is a mystery, then the notion of IQ seems irrelevant. If life is a problem, then IQ is very important. Again, I could rant on about this, but I'm too tired.

Anyways....that's just my random incoherent two cents. :redface:

Blackmail, your posts on the INTJ obsession with IQ are pure gold. :D

I would agree that people most often obseseed with IQ are usually INTJs. However, I will point out that not all INTJs are obsessed with IQ.