Look what the Hippies are doing...

[ajblaise]

A lot of the best jam bands and progressive rock bands are hardly known to people who aren't already really into these genres. And it's unfortunate because much of this music is some of the best contemporary rock music around, taking over where 60's psychedelic rock left off.

So here are just two songs by one band that I guarantee you'll like assuming you have ears, just make sure to listen to the whole songs.

YouTube - Umphrey's McGee - Glory - 11/3/2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ed_0MwtAsU)
YouTube - Umphreys McGee JaJunk JITD 2005 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fu42q_rq2Y)

[pure_mercury]

I can't stand most jam bands, but I never cared for the more improvisatory end of 1960s rock, either. I put a major premium on concise, hooky songwriting.

[ajblaise]

I put a major premium on concise, hooky songwriting.

Pop music?? Top 40 stuff? :1377:

[disregard]

Nice tunes.

[pure_mercury]

Pop music?? Top 40 stuff? :1377:

Not necessarily, but I'd rather hear half an hour of Usher than this music. I watched that first video, and it was really, really annoying. Nice guitar tone, but there is nothing even approaching a song. That was SUCH a long 5:40. I went to a Phish concert once, and it was damn near intolerable without a lot of weed.

[ajblaise]

Not necessarily, but I'd rather hear half an hour of Usher than this music. I watched that first video, and it was really, really annoying. Nice guitar tone, but there is nothing even approaching a song. That was SUCH a long 5:40. I went to a Phish concert once, and it was damn near intolerable without a lot of weed.

I guess we have really different tastes. Improv and progressive music seems to be better enjoyed by NP's. I'd shoot somebody if I had to listen to an hour of Usher. You might like the 2nd one better, it's kind of Primus-like.

I'm curious on why you didn't think it even approached a song. Because it didn't have the mandatory hook, verse, chorus...template? It had an intro, buildup and climax though.

[rhinosaur]

I like Umphrey's McGee.

See also:
Disco Biscuits
Lotus
The String Cheese Incident (my personal favorite out of this list)
Pat Metheny
Govt Mule
etc.

And of course the obligatory Phish bootleg. There are some Reba's that bring me close to tears.

[pure_mercury]

I guess we have really different tastes. Improv and progressive music seems to be better enjoyed by NP's. I'd shoot somebody if I had to listen to an hour of Usher. You might like the 2nd one better, it's kind of Primus-like.

I'm curious on why you didn't think it even approached a song. Because it didn't have the mandatory hook, verse, chorus...template? It had an intro, buildup and climax though.

The guy pretty much soloed the whole way through. If you look at it in terms of jazz, it makes more sense (i.e., soloist and acommpanists), but not when it comes to pop songwriting. That was NOT hooky. I do not dig most contemporary instrumentals, so that is another issue (I really dig Joe Meek, Dick Dale, Duane Eddy, et al., the occasional Eric Johnson or Joe Satriani song).

Here is an example of a psychedelic pop song that I love:

YouTube - ELECTRIC PRUNES - I HAD TOO MUCH TO DREAM LAST NIGHT (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=f4a4oiLibW8)

[ajblaise]

I like Umphrey's McGee.

See also:
Disco Biscuits
Lotus
The String Cheese Incident (my personal favorite out of this list)
Pat Metheny
Govt Mule
etc.

And of course the obligatory Phish bootleg. There are some Reba's that bring me close to tears.

If we're making a list know, I'll have to add a few:

Sound Tribe Sector Nine
moe.
Bela Fleck
The New Deal
Medeski Martin & Wood

[colmena]

It sounds suspiciously like dorky American cheese mixed with fretboard wankery.

But it made me laugh.


I watched Good Morning, Vietnam the other day, and have gone all Motown again. Now there's some quality American cheese. "Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, baby" *dances*

[ajblaise]

The guy pretty much soloed the whole way through. If you look at it in terms of jazz, it makes more sense (i.e., soloist and acommpanists), but not when it comes to pop songwriting. That was NOT hooky. I do not dig most contemporary instrumentals, so that is another issue (I really dig Joe Meek, Dick Dale, Duane Eddy, et al., the occasional Eric Johnson or Joe Satriani song).

Here is an example of a psychedelic pop song that I love:

YouTube - ELECTRIC PRUNES - I HAD TOO MUCH TO DREAM LAST NIGHT (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=f4a4oiLibW8)

Yeah, I don't think they were trying to write a song within the confines of pop songwriting.

[pure_mercury]

Yeah, I don't think they were trying to write a song within the confines of pop songwriting.

I understand that, but they should probably try. Alternatively, if they were a straight-up jazz combo, it might work, also. A few bands in history have been able to do much longer, improvisation-based songs (the Allman Brothers Band is the first example I can think of; Zeppelin had their ten-minute epics), but a little noodling can be a dangerous thing.

[pure_mercury]

It sounds suspiciously like dorky American cheese mixed with fretboard wankery.

But it made me laugh.


I watched Good Morning, Vietnam the other day, and have gone all Motown again. Now there's some quality American cheese. "Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, baby" *dances*

I am a big Northern Soul guy. I messes with The Carstairs! :headphne:

[rhinosaur]

Sound Tribe Sector Nine
moe.
Bela Fleck


Yes, these are also good. I used to listen to MMW too, but their sound got old pretty fast. If you like Bela Fleck, you should also check out Chick Corea, and Pat Metheny, whom I mentioned before.

[pure_mercury]

Yes, these are also good. I used to listen to MMW too, but their sound got old pretty fast. If you like Bela Fleck, you should also check out Chick Corea, and Pat Metheny, whom I mentioned before.

I like Chick Corea.

[GZA]

I don't like progressive or jam band stuff either. I don't even compare it to jazz cause it's completely different from that, too, and I do like jazz a lot. I can appreciate both improvised jazz type stuff and pop songwriting, and I apreciate music that does both the most. Thats why Hendrix=god.

[ajblaise]

I can appreciate both improvised jazz type stuff and pop songwriting, and I apreciate music that does both the most. Thats why Hendrix=god.

Hendrix did neither of those things. He did psychedelic rock/blues rock/acid rock/hard rock. He would fall under "jam band" these days.

[pure_mercury]

Hendrix did neither of those things. He did psychedelic rock/blues rock/acid rock/hard rock. He would fall under "jam band" these days.

Hendrix most certainly DID display excellent pop songwriting. His songs were usually under four minutes long! I think he would have got into more of an exploratory funk vein in the 1970s, following the more experiemental Band of Gypsys, and that probably wouldn't have been a good thing. I imagine he'd have gotten into synths a lot, too. I am sure he'd have been very funky and good into the mid-1970s, gotten indulgent, came back with a couple of sweet tracks with James Brown and/or Afrika Bambaataa, and then gotten into a more relaxed, bluesy vibe as he aged. You know, like pretty much every other classic rock artist from the time who made it through the early-1970s alive and sane.

[ajblaise]

Hendrix most certainly DID display excellent pop songwriting. His songs were usually under four minutes long! I think he would have got into more of an exploratory funk vein in the 1970s, following the more experiemental Band of Gypsys, and that probably wouldn't have been a good thing. I imagine he'd have gotten into synths a lot, too. I am sure he'd have been very funky and good into the mid-1970s, gotten indulgent, came back with a couple of sweet tracks with James Brown and/or Afrika Bambaataa, and then gotten into a more relaxed, bluesy vibe as he aged. You know, like pretty much every other classic rock artist from the time who made it through the early-1970s alive and sane.

The Beatles did pop writing. Hendrix and his bands weren't pop groups.

Pop music and writing has mainstream and conventional structures, catchy hooks and melodies...etc.

[pure_mercury]

The Beatles did pop writing. Hendrix and his bands weren't pop groups.

Pop music and writing has mainstream and conventional structures, catchy hooks and melodies...etc.

You are completely mistaken here. Hendrix didn't have catchy hooks and melodies? "Foxy Lady?" "Fire?" "Crosstown Traffic?" "The Wind Cries Mary?" "Spanish Castle Magic?" Are we talking about the same guy?

[ajblaise]

You are completely mistaken here. Hendrix didn't have catchy hooks and melodies? "Foxy Lady?" "Fire?" "Crosstown Traffic?" "The Wind Cries Mary?" "Spanish Castle Magic?" Are we talking about the same guy?

I wouldn't say catchy in the same way as The Beatles or ABBA was.

And then there is the mainstream style and conventional structure aspects of pop music, are we talking about the same guy? Pop music is also usually all about commercial success not musical form or creativity.

You can't seriously think Hendrix did pop music.

[pure_mercury]

I wouldn't say catchy in the same way as The Beatles or ABBA was.

Perhaps not, but I didn't claim that he was.


And then there is the mainstream style and conventional structure aspects of pop music, are we talking about the same guy? Pop music is also usually all about commercial success not musical form or creativity.

You can't seriously think Hendrix did pop music.

I seriously DO think that, because it's the truth. In fact, here is the beginning of allmusic.com's review of Are You Experienced?: "One of the most stunning debuts in rock history, and one of the definitive albums of the psychedelic era. On Are You Experienced?, Jimi Hendrix synthesized various elements of the cutting edge of 1967 rock into music that sounded both futuristic and rooted in the best traditions of rock, blues, POP, and soul (my bold)."

You have a completely misguided notion of what pop music is, and it's silly. Pop music is not about "musical form or creativity?" So The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, Michael Jackson, Madonna, U2, The Police, Prince, Motown Records, and hundreds of other artists were not about "musical form or creativity?" That's ludicrous.

[Ivy]

Hendrix definitely made his share of pop music, and it was awesome.

I definitely have a short fuse when it comes to jam bands. Sometimes no fuse at all. Couldn't stomach the stuff in the OP. Sorry.

[ajblaise]

Perhaps not, but I didn't claim that he was.




I seriously DO think that, because it's the truth. In fact, here is the beginning of allmusic.com's review of Are You Experienced?: "One of the most stunning debuts in rock history, and one of the definitive albums of the psychedelic era. On Are You Experienced?, Jimi Hendrix synthesized various elements of the cutting edge of 1967 rock into music that sounded both futuristic and rooted in the best traditions of rock, blues, POP, and soul (my bold)."

You have a completely misguided notion of what pop music is, and it's silly. Pop music is not about "musical form or creativity?" So The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, Michael Jackson, Madonna, U2, The Police, Prince, Motown Records, and hundreds of other artists were not about "musical form or creativity?" That's ludicrous.

You can say that he had pop elements to his music, even though I would disagree with that, but that wouldn't make him a pop songwriter, unless we are defining pop music as anything that made it to the Top 40 charts. You couldn't name anyone of his songs and say it's just a pop song.

And pop music is generally less about creativity and musical forms than it is about making what they think the audience will like and what will be commercially successful. The Top 40 contains much less creativity than other more complex and musical contemporary music.

[Ivy]

somebody visited wikipedia!

[ajblaise]

somebody visited wikipedia!

i always visit wikipedia.

[pure_mercury]

You can say that he had pop elements to his music, even though I would disagree with that, but that wouldn't make him a pop songwriter, unless we are defining pop music as anything that made it to the Top 40 charts. You couldn't name anyone of his songs and say it's just a pop song.


Of course I can. I named several of his songs that are pop songs. He had others like "Machine Gun" and "Voodoo Chile" that were not pop songs. To declare that none of his songs were pop songs is mad.


And pop music is generally less about creativity and musical forms than it is about making what they think the audience will like and what will be commercially successful. The Top 40 contains much less creativity than other more complex and musical contemporary music.


You're just wrong about this. Completely and totally wrong. Those videos you posted are about 2% as creative as Thriller-era Michael Jackson. It's not good to be simultaneously a snob AND have bad taste.

[ajblaise]

Of course I can. I named several of his songs that are pop songs. He had others like "Machine Gun" and "Voodoo Chile" that were not pop songs. To declare that none of his songs were pop songs is mad.





You're just wrong about this. Completely and totally wrong. Those videos you posted are about 2% as creative as Thriller-era Michael Jackson. It's not good to be simultaneously a snob AND have bad taste.

Were they pop songs? Or were they rock/rock-blues/psychedelic rock songs with alleged pop influence also. "Dancing Queen" is a pop song. If a song has "pop" as just one of it's many influences, that doesn't make it a pop song.

No one thinks that Hendrix was a pop musician or had pop songs. Maybe you're definition of pop is more broad than the accepted definition. Were those conventional and mainstream?

Michael Jackson is arguable the best pop artist of all time, but those songs I posted take talent to play live. Live shows are the heart of jam bands. Most pop stars couldn't play a fraction of the guitar in those songs.

But if you can dig Usher and Madonna, I don't know what to say. That's kid music.

[pure_mercury]

Were they pop songs? Or were they rock/rock-blues/psychedelic rock songs with alleged pop influence also. "Dancing Queen" is a pop song. If a song has "pop" as just one of it's many influences, that doesn't make it a pop song.

It doesn't make it NOT a pop song. And, if anyone were pop, ABBA were.


No one thinks that Hendrix was a pop musician or had pop songs. Maybe you're definition of pop is more broad than the accepted definition. Were those conventional and mainstream?

Actually, lots of people do, including critics, whom I just cited. YOU seem to be obsessed with the idea that he is NOT pop, because you have it in your mind that "pop = bad," which is stupid. Pop doesn't have to be conventional at all. Ever listen to Fleetwood Mac? Or OutKast?


Michael Jackson is arguable the best pop artist of all time, but those songs I posted take talent to play live. Live shows are the heart of jam bands. Most pop stars couldn't play a fraction of the guitar in those songs.

You don't have to be a technically astounding instrumentalist to be a great musician. People who argue that you do have to be tend to be the people with no songwriting ability and very little creative spark.


But if you can dig Usher and Madonna, I don't know what to say. That's kid music.

You're wrong. It's just plain good music.

[iluvstellacat]

i like...

[ajblaise]

You're wrong. It's just plain good music.

you'll grow out of it someday.

[pure_mercury]

you'll grow out of it someday.

I doubt it. I will be 26 years old this week, and I've been serious about music for over 15 years.

[Ivy]

32 here, and I love all types of music including (especially?) good pop. Even some jazz!

[colmena]

Music is too subjective and influenced by too many external factors/disparate development/environment.

This thread is shit. Give it a rest.

[pure_mercury]

Music is too subjective and influenced by too many external factors/disparate development/environment.

I happen to think that there are far more objective things to look at when it comes to criticizing art than most people seem to believe.


This thread is shit. Give it a rest.

That's a little subjective, don't you think? :D

[colmena]

I happen to think that there are far more objective things to look at when it comes to criticizing art than most people seem to believe.
That's fine.

That's a little subjective, don't you think? :D
No, I don't

[pure_mercury]

No, I don't

To borrow a line: that's fine. You have every right to express your opinion in this thread. Did you like the videos, including the Electric Prunes one?

[colmena]

Sorry, I'm a bit of a twat today. I can't watch any more videos: my headphones are somewhere else and I'm on a laptop.

[01011010]

I liked it.