ENFJ male appalls me...what's going on..does he love me or hate me?

[Harlow_Jem]

Long story short: Me and ENFJ started hooking up and I guess he assumed it was exclusive and I did not. About a month and a half ago I got drunk and so he had to drive me home in my car and then drive himself home in my car and subsequently, I left my phone in there. He apparently read my text messages and found out that one night I had left his house after having sex to meet up with an ex-boyfriend (But he never mentioned anything).

Fast forward a few weeks later: I get completely trashed and slept with his best friend by accident and he is angry/hurt about it.

Fast forward a few more awkward weeks later: I'm surprised that he still talks to me and wants to see me. About a week ago, we had a somewhat serious talk and he confesses that he knew about the ex-boyfriend thing but does not confess how he knows and then tells me how pissed off he is about everything I've done to him but says he still wants me (but also includes that, "I should've told you to fuck off a long time ago". We argue for a bit about whether we ever established that it was exclusive or not and decide that it will be exclusive from now on. And things have been really good between us now.

So my question is, I know that ENFJ's easily let themselves get hurt and neglected in relationships but does this guy really want me that badly to let everything I've done to him slide? or what?? (And this is a guy who could easily get any girl he wants by flashing a smile. So it's not a matter of some loser holding onto the best thing he's ever gonna get.)

Does this mean he genuinely has strong feelings for me that he cannot forget and wants to make it work? And can it work? Please help an insensitive bitch INTJ figure out how to make amends to this sweet ENFJ!

[pure_mercury]

Does this mean he genuinely has strong feelings for me that he cannot forget and wants to make it work? And can it work? Please help an insensitive bitch INTJ figure out how to make amends to this sweet ENFJ!

One way to start would be 1) to sober up; and 2) stop fucking other guys if you want to be with this guy. Figure out if you really like him or not, and then get with him exclusively or let him go. That would be a start.

[Harlow_Jem]

One way to start would be 1) to sober up; and 2) stop fucking other guys if you want to be with this guy. Figure out if you really like him or not, and then get with him exclusively or let him go. That would be a start.

I forgot to include that yes, I have decided to do all of the above. I want to be with this guy and only this guy.

[Silently Honest]

One way to start would be 1) to sober up; and 2) stop fucking other guys if you want to be with this guy. Figure out if you really like him or not, and then get with him exclusively or let him go. That would be a start.
Listen to this guy.

[spirilis]

Is this the ESFJ you mentioned a while back, or a different EFJ?

[Harlow_Jem]

Is this the ESFJ you mentioned a while back, or a different EFJ?

I thought he was an ESFJ but turns out he is an ENFJ (he took the myers-briggs test)

[pure_mercury]

I forgot to include that yes, I have decided to do all of the above. I want to be with this guy and only this guy.

Then apologize for your previous behavior, let him know how you feel, stop drinking and popping Xanax, and hope he goes for it. Act like a girlfriend who has a great guy.

[grendiecat]

I think everyone here agrees with pure. I'm an ENFJ, female, and if a guy did this to me, I'd have to say that I'd probably dump him. As an ENFJ, I'm not into messing around with so many people--one person and one person only until I figure out if it's the right relationship for me. Casual sex is such a let down for an ENFJ--I think so anyway. Are you able to be monogamous?

[Harlow_Jem]

I think everyone here agrees with pure. I'm an ENFJ, female, and if a guy did this to me, I'd have to say that I'd probably dump him. As an ENFJ, I'm not into messing around with so many people--one person and one person only until I figure out if it's the right relationship for me. Casual sex is such a let down for an ENFJ--I think so anyway. Are you able to be monogamous?

Yes, definitely. I am able/want to be monogamous. I just want input from an ENFJ as to why he didn't tell me to "fuck off" as he said he should've in the beginning. I didn't even know he liked me as much as I guess he really did and it makes me sad/disappointed that he kept all that inside and took that kind of shit; if he cared so much, why didn't he confront me about it right afterwards?

[PinkPiranha]

ENFJs avoid conflict sometimes, especially if it's something major. Our feelings hit us like a brick. If he didn't already tell you to go jump in a lake, he must really like you.

[InaF3157]

ENFJs avoid conflict sometimes, especially if it's something major. Our feelings hit us like a brick. If he didn't already tell you to go jump in a lake, he must really like you.
Uh huh. I would be worried that it will hit him like a brick later that he really, really didn't like what she did, and he will lash out when she thinks all that is behind them.

[PinkPiranha]

Uh huh. I would be worried that it will hit him like a brick later that he really, really didn't like what she did, and he will lash out when she thinks all that is behind them.

Agreed.

Frankly, I'm so serious about my relationships that I would never be in a situation where my SO was "on the fence". I would know without a doubt that he wanted to be with me and vice versa. We have the same level of loyalty that INFJs have only jacked up by Fe-primary.

I would have been crushed if I'd found out my girlfriend/bf had stepped out on me. By crushed, I mean struck silent for days and days. Delayed reactions can be a problem too if we aren't allowed to fully process just how hurt or angry we are. The specter of betrayal can come back suddenly to the detriment of both parties.

[Desperado44]

I'm a full blooded Italian ENFJ....that scored a 20-0 on the F

To be candid, I have no idea why he would put with your treatment.

There are over 6 billion people on this planet....the majority of which are women......he should look for one that treats me with respect.

[Silently Honest]

...he should look for one that treats me with respect.
This is either very poorly phrased or you should be telling Harlow how you really feel about your situation right now.

[CzeCze]

I think people (ahem, Pure_Mecury) are being a little harsh on Harlow Jem.

Who cares if she slept with other guys while she was sleeping with the ENFJ? As she said, she did not think they were exclusive. Even by the term 'hooking up' it seems to me to HJ at least it was very casual and physical at first. If the two were not on the same page about what was going on, that is not 100% her responsibility. True, if you are two grown folks doing the dirty, you'd think somewhere in there you'd have a conversation laying down some ground rules and expectations. But sometimes people assume things. It was as much the guy's fault for not saying explicitly he thought or wanted to be exclusive.

*edit*

Perhaps I'm reading the situation very differently, but everyone seems to assume in this situation that Harlow Jem was playing the ENFJ. I don't read it that way at all.

As for sleeping with the 'best friend' I read that thread and um, no. If anything the 'best friend' owes a lot more to his 'best friend' the ENFJ as well as to Harlow Jem to respect her enough not to try to anything with her while 1) she's dating his friend and 2) she's drunk.

Also, if any potential partner included "I should've told you to fuck off a long time ago" and it wasn't some insanely dramatic high/low love/hate relationship filled with coiling passion and unbelievable sex -- um no, I'd take it as a sign to walk away.

Harlow, instead of wondering if this guy is serious about you, I'd concentrate on figuring out what it is what you want. You'll have to work together to move past everything for a new start. So if he can't get over your history, you'll have to end it, i.e. dump him, for both your sakes. Otherwise, he is just going to keep taking it out on you and it will poison your relationship. It could also create a very unhealthy and unfair dynamic where you will always be bending over backwards or apologizing to 'make up' for things and the relationship will never move beyond that.

[pure_mercury]

I think people (ahem, Pure_Mecury) are being a little harsh on Harlow Jem.

Who cares if she slept with other guys while she was sleeping with the ENFJ? As she said, she did not think they were exclusive. Even by the term 'hooking up' it seems to me to HJ at least it was very casual and physical at first. If the two were not on the same page about what was going on, that is not 100% her responsibility. True, if you are two grown folks doing the dirty, you'd think somewhere in there you'd have a conversation laying down some ground rules and expectations. But sometimes people assume things. It was as much the guy's fault for not saying explicitly he thought or wanted to be exclusive.

*edit*

Perhaps I'm reading the situation very differently, but everyone seems to assume in this situation that Harlow Jem was playing the ENFJ. I don't read it that way at all.

As for sleeping with the 'best friend' I read that thread and um, no. If anything the 'best friend' owes a lot more to his 'best friend' the ENFJ as well as to Harlow Jem to respect her enough not to try to anything with her while 1) she's dating his friend and 2) she's drunk.

Also, if any potential partner included "I should've told you to fuck off a long time ago" and it wasn't some insanely dramatic high/low love/hate relationship filled with coiling passion and unbelievable sex -- um no, I'd take it as a sign to walk away.

Harlow, instead of wondering if this guy is serious about you, I'd concentrate on figuring out what it is what you want. You'll have to work together to move past everything for a new start. So if he can't get over your history, you'll have to end it, i.e. dump him, for both your sakes. Otherwise, he is just going to keep taking it out on you and it will poison your relationship. It could also create a very unhealthy and unfair dynamic where you will always be bending over backwards or apologizing to 'make up' for things and the relationship will never move beyond that.

I wasn't trying to be harsh. HJ and I exchanged some PMs, it's all good. I still think you're off-base on this one, though. ;) I've read HJ's previous posts, and I have a good idea what happened in this situation (and I got some more info from her privately). I've also dealt with a couple of situations just like this one in college. My language was a little blunt because, well, sometimes people need to hear things the blunt way, not the diplomatic way. The ENFJ guy has some choices to make, but the ball is in HJ's court for now, and I think she realizes that it's decision time. If things continue the way they have (and she has made it clear that she wants to be with this guy), she'll only push him away, and it won't be his fault.

[runvardh]

I have to go with pure mercury on this one; I've actually dumped a girl for those things. Then again, I could see it in her eyes that she didn't want me so that made it easier to let go. This guy now sees what he wants and has gone balls to the wall on it, it's her turn to go all in or fold.

[Brendan]

Does this mean he genuinely has strong feelings for me that he cannot forget and wants to make it work? And can it work? Please help an insensitive bitch INTJ figure out how to make amends to this sweet ENFJ!

Show him the sincerety of your feelings for him. Actions speak louder than words.

[FDG]

He apparently read my text messages and found out that one night I had left his house after having sex to meet up with an ex-boyfriend (But he never mentioned anything).


Wow, that's extremely shitty. Stay away from the guy, you're not ready for a relationship.

[InaF3157]

Wow, that's extremely shitty. Stay away from the guy, you're not ready for a relationship.

Given that they were not exclusive, why is it shitty? And why isn't she ready? Are you assuming she met up with the ex for sexxy times?

[Brendan]

Theme song to this thread: "Criminal" by Fiona Apple

[ceecee]

Show him the sincerety of your feelings for him. Actions speak louder than words.

Yes. This is what they see. You have to "do", not "say".

[ByMySword]

I forgot to include that yes, I have decided to do all of the above. I want to be with this guy and only this guy.

Good.

Sounds like he genuinely likes you if he's willing to put up with all that.

[ByMySword]

There are over 6 billion people on this planet....the majority of which are women......he should look for one that treats me with respect.

I don't think that him looking for one that treats YOU with respect is really gonna help him any. ;)

[Brendan]

I think everyone here agrees with pure. I'm an ENFJ, female, and if a guy did this to me, I'd have to say that I'd probably dump him.
I wouldn't, but then, men are much more hopelessly romantic, typically. I find myself in a parallel situation at the moment, and haven't yet told the guy to go fuck himself, which I probably should.
Casual sex is such a let down for an ENFJ
Amen. I find it too hard to talk about my thoughts and feelings with almost anyone at all. There's no way I could make myself that insecure and vulnerable to sleep with someone I don't know well and trust.

[The Third Rider]

My personal opinion would be to stay away from that guy. I personally would not take that shit and I am sure that deep down inside he doesn't feel completely right. I can see that he might be good looking like you said; "He can get any girl that he wants with just a smile", but just like me, he must have gotten too attached to you or may be he doesn't think he has much of market out there. I am not sure if its your fault or not, because I am not sure if you lead him on or not so I cannot judge you on that, since you said you didn't think it was a exclusive relationship but he did. Unfortunately, even if he does forgive you he provably wont forget, and to me trust and loyalty are the 2 single most important things when it comes to any kind of relationship. For his own sake I would leave him and spare him any further damage because I am almost sure he wont have that trust in you that is required in a serious relationship. You don't have to be with him if you don't want to, you don't owe him anything, you didn't know how he felt about you, its really not your fault, agian you owe him nothing. Personally this looks like a really bad foundation to start a relationship from.....

[Harlow_Jem]

My personal opinion would be to stay away from that guy. I personally would not take that shit and I am sure that deep down inside he doesn't feel completely right. I can see that he might be good looking like you said; "He can get any girl that he wants with just a smile", but just like me, he must have gotten too attached to you or may be he doesn't think he has much of market out there. I am not sure if its your fault or not, because I am not sure if you lead him on or not so I cannot judge you on that, since you said you didn't think it was a exclusive relationship but he did. Unfortunately, even if he does forgive you he provably wont forget, and to me trust and loyalty are the 2 single most important things when it comes to any kind of relationship. For his own sake I would leave him and spare him any further damage because I am almost sure he wont have that trust in you that is required in a serious relationship. You don't have to be with him if you don't want to, you don't owe him anything, you didn't know how he felt about you, its really not your fault, agian you owe him nothing. Personally this looks like a really bad foundation to start a relationship from.....

I completely understand what you're saying. However, he has taken me back recently and so doesn't that mean he is willing to try to work it out? Also, another question I have for ENFJ males is...do you hardly ever talk about your feelings and about conflicts? He tends to brush everything under the rug and avoid talking about the whole thing and pretends everything is just great.

[The Third Rider]

I completely understand what you're saying. However, he has taken me back recently and so doesn't that mean he is willing to try to work it out? Also, another question I have for ENFJ males is...do you hardly ever talk about your feelings and about conflicts? He tends to brush everything under the rug and avoid talking about the whole thing and pretends everything is just great.

Yeah I tend to put my conflicts aside and try to brush them off if I can, but if you force me to talk about than I will. I simply hate to talk about problems, I feel like they really don't help anyone better sometimes, I just like to think positivebly. In that regard I can see him completly brush off what happened, personally I wouldn't do it but I guess that is the difference between me and him. I guess he made his decision as to how he feels about you, so its up to you if you want to take him up on his offer. If for any reason he wont trust you in the future, than that is his own fault.

[Johnny23]

Holy jeez! :huh:

[batumi]

Yes, definitely. I am able/want to be monogamous. I just want input from an ENFJ as to why he didn't tell me to "fuck off" as he said he should've in the beginning. I didn't even know he liked me as much as I guess he really did and it makes me sad/disappointed that he kept all that inside and took that kind of shit; if he cared so much, why didn't he confront me about it right afterwards?


If your experience is anything like my two rounds with this type,
he is avoiding conflict right now but will blow up later at you for it.
D-R-A-M-A is headed your way if that happens.
I swore off dating this type because it is just not for me.
Good luck.

....and pretends everything is just great.

Yep. Welcome to the land of ENFJ men.


Does this mean he genuinely has strong feelings for me that he cannot forget and wants to make it work? And can it work?

My best guess is that he neither loves you or hates you but you are a statue in the making.
:)

[Harlow_Jem]

If your experience is anything like my two rounds with this type,
he is avoiding conflict right now but will blow up later at you for it.
D-R-A-M-A is headed your way if that happens.
I swore off dating this type because it is just not for me.
Good luck.

You are so right. We finally had a blow-up in which it started out as us agreeing to "talk about it" but ended up us basically screaming/yelling at each other...and having amazing make-up sex. And then him getting up and passive-aggressively continuing to be angry. I think he has a problem with not knowing at all how to resolve it and move on; he continually goes back and forth from being angry and pretending things are fine.

When I said to him, "I will say/show you that I'm sorry until forever but I need to know if it will be worth anything to you in the end," he just replied that he doesn't know and that he wants to see what happens.

His attitude about the whole thing is just destructive and seems to think it will work itself out on its own as he doesn't want to talk about the central issue at hand since he says it just "pisses him off." He absolutely refuses to consider that he is not dealing with it the way it needs to be dealt with as he is so stubborn in thinking that the way he does everything is right and good.

I know there's a way to resolve this though. There has to be.

[The Third Rider]

You are so right. We finally had a blow-up in which it started out as us agreeing to "talk about it" but ended up us basically screaming/yelling at each other...and having amazing make-up sex. And then him getting up and passive-aggressively continuing to be angry. I think he has a problem with not knowing at all how to resolve it and move on; he continually goes back and forth from being angry and pretending things are fine.

When I said to him, "I will say/show you that I'm sorry until forever but I need to know if it will be worth anything to you in the end," he just replied that he doesn't know and that he wants to see what happens.

His attitude about the whole thing is just destructive and seems to think it will work itself out on its own as he doesn't want to talk about the central issue at hand since he says it just "pisses him off." He absolutely refuses to consider that he is not dealing with it the way it needs to be dealt with as he is so stubborn in thinking that the way he does everything is right and good.

I know there's a way to resolve this though. There has to be.

Well, may be to him forgetting about the issue is the way that he always resolves his problems and to him that has always worked out well. Unfortunately for you it seems that, this is not the way you like to deal with issues and you are colliding with the way both of you are handling the whole thing. Well, if he thinks that forgetting about it is the best way than I would let it be but if for some reason he brings up this issue again I would slap on his face for being such a dumnass.lol But if you really want to talk with him, the only thing I can advice on is to have an extreme amount of self-control when you talk to him, you want him thinking as rationally as possible and getting into a shouting match with an ENFj is not a good idea. You need to tell him that even though to him brushing things under the rug is the way he likes to solve things that is not how you do it, and that to you this is an issue that deeply bothers you and makes you very uneasy inside. He needs to understand that communication is probably the single most import thing for a relationship to work and if he is unwilling to listen than tell him that this relationship will simply not work. Like I said if he starts talking left and right let him talk until he is done and than calmly proceed to talk to him about the issue. Avoid trying to talk over him and don’t raise your voice, eventually he will calm himself down and will start listening. The trick is patience but wait a few more days before you try to talk to him about this agian.

[Udog]

I know there's a way to resolve this though. There has to be.

Time is key. However...

Does he still blame you for what happened? Because if he does, time won't matter. You will always be punished for your past, no matter what you do.

If he offers sympathy and doesn't lay the entire blame on you, though, then the hurt will go away with time.

Is he still best friends with the one guy you cheated with?

[Harlow_Jem]

Time is key. However...

Does he still blame you for what happened? Because if he does, time won't matter. You will always be punished for your past, no matter what you do.

If he offers sympathy and doesn't lay the entire blame on you, though, then the hurt will go away with time.

Is he still best friends with the one guy you cheated with?

He blames me 100% for everything. And he loves his INTP best friend more than a brother and thinks he's a tortured genius even though his best friend is nothing more than a failed scumbag of a loser who is depressed and angry at the world and pulls my ENFJ down with him. ENFJ is completely unaware of this.

[The Third Rider]

He blames me 100% for everything. And he loves his INTP best friend more than a brother and thinks he's a tortured genius even though his best friend is nothing more than a failed scumbag of a loser who is depressed and angry at the world and pulls my ENFJ down with him. ENFJ is completely unaware of this.


How did you end up in bed with him?:huh:

[PinkPiranha]

Last time I checked, it takes two to cheat. Doesn't seem quite right that you take all the blame and none falls on Scumbag.

[Metamorphosis]

How do you accidentally sleep with someone?

[pure_mercury]

The more I read about this, the more it seems that no one involved here is ready for a relationship. Lots of immaturity (no offense, Jem).

[Harlow_Jem]

How did you end up in bed with him?:huh:
It's a long, complicated story filled with plenty of mind-altering drugs and alcohol.

The more I read about this, the more it seems that no one involved here is ready for a relationship. Lots of immaturity (no offense, Jem).

It's true. I acknowledge that and at least I'm trying to find ways to work it out. He claims to want to try and work it out and yet refuses to examine his own behavior; thus leaving him (us) stuck in the same position.


He won't get involved in my decisions but will later blame me for not doing as he thought I should have done even though when I asked him, he wouldn't tell me yes or no. Example: My best friend and I were going to meet up with this guy (who is friends with my ENFJ) she was interested in and at the last moment the guy tells her that he's bringing a friend who is interested in me. I tell my ENFJ this obviously because I want him to know that his friend is trying to set me up with his other friend behind ENFJ's back. ENFJ replies with, "well, it's not my place to say." I take this to mean that he doesn't care enough to tell me what he really feels about the situation. And of course later tells me that he's angry that I didn't know exactly that he didn't like the situation.

I was wondering if his casual behavior despite intense feelings in a relationship is typical of ENFJ males? Or is he just a seemingly really easy-going guy. Also is it typical of an ENFJ to expect a significant other to understand unspoken things?

[Hmm]

Some guys have a fantasy in their minds that they do not have to commit to a woman and she will still not stray but he is free to stray if he so chooses and she will always be faithful to him. But if that fantasy is crushed by a woman and he is forced to commit, then he will remain disgruntled about it for as long as they remain together.

[Udog]

I like that post Hmm. The details are off, but the concept I suspect is pretty close.

Harlow, what I see is a pattern where he consistently fails to communicate his needs, while you consistently make decisions that are hurtful to him. You use his lack of communication as an excuse to cross the line, while he is trying to manipulate and mold you through guilt and hidden land mines. Separately, you guys would be fine (with a bit of fine tuning). Together, it's a recipe for drama.

It's very curious that he is sticking it out, considering that he is blaming you for everything. I don't know if it's just an ENFJ thing to draw out a relationship as long as possible no matter the cost, or if it's something about YOU he can't bring himself to give up. In my opinion, you need to know, because if it's the latter you may have a chance.

Have you asked him what it is about you that he likes, and why he stays with you despite how angry and hurt he is by your behavior? What is it about him that makes the frustration worth it to you?

[Hmm]

I like that post Hmm. The details are off, but the concept I suspect is pretty close.

What I see is a pattern where he consistently fails to communicate his needs, while you consistently make decisions that are hurtful to him. You use his lack of communication as an excuse to cross the line, while he is trying to manipulate and mold you through guilt and hidden land mines. Separately, you guys would be fine (with a bit of fine tuning). Together, it's a recipe for drama.

It's very curious that he is sticking it out, considering that he is blaming you for everything. I don't know if it's just an ENFJ thing to draw out a relationship as long as possible no matter the cost, or if it's something about YOU he can't bring himself to give up. In my opinion, you need to know, because if it's the latter you may have a chance.

Have you asked him what it is about you that he likes, and why he stays with you despite how angry and hurt he is by your behavior? What is it about him that makes the frustration worth it to you?

Drama + Sex for them both. Which is okay if that's what floats their boats so long as Harlow Jem is on birth control.

[proteanmix]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this relationship has been the subject of many threads.

How do you expect someone to react when they've been cheated on and lied to? I wouldn't be so quick to lay the blame at the guy's door given the circumstances. Why are you so convinced this relationship will work Harlow? How many relationships recover from cheating? It's not even like you two are married with kids and a mortgage where there would be more incentive to work through this. You two college students and this is a lot of drama for a relatively low stakes relationship. This sounds like Spring Break with Jerry Springer.

[Lateralus]

He's in love with a fantasy, an idealized version of you from before you slept with his best friend. He also feels betrayed, and rightfully so (only a fool would get trashed and 'accidentally' sleep with someone). He has a conflicting feelings for you and he'll never get over that feeling of betrayal. You'd both be better off ending it.

[MacGuffin]

I read the other threads too and I'm in agreement that if both parties are mature enough they can get past this.

And his "best friend" needs a swift kick in the balls.

[Hmm]

I read the other threads too and I'm in agreement that if both parties are mature enough they can get past this.

And his "best friend" needs a swift kick in the balls.

I too agree with this. :yes:

[jenesaisquois]

It really sounds like you are not his type at all. If you were, you would totally INTUITIVELY have understood it wasn't a casual relationship. In fact, if you were his type, you would never treat it as a casual relationship. You should definitely break up with him...he's never going to break up with you no matter how bad of a match you are....enfj's almost never let anyone go.

[jenesaisquois]

In fact, if you are a sensing type, which i think you are, you HAVE to break up with him. He's not going to break up with you even though you're absolutely the opposite of what he needs, which means he will ignore the fact. Otherwise you will slowly destroy him. Please do us all a favor and stop the relationship now as it's grating just to read about it.

[Harlow_Jem]

In fact, if you are a sensing type, which i think you are, you HAVE to break up with him. He's not going to break up with you even though you're absolutely the opposite of what he needs, which means he will ignore the fact. Otherwise you will slowly destroy him. Please do us all a favor and stop the relationship now as it's grating just to read about it.

Me and him are way over. Ended HORRIBLY.

But you were right about me not having been his type in the first place. It's what I knew the moment we met but he kept pushing it so I kind of gave in to him and that's how we even got together in the first place.

It kind of reinforces my theory that some men really tend to think with their dicks, not their heads.

[Mondo]

I get completely trashed and slept with his best friend by accident and he is angry/hurt about it.

Just from this alone, I can say with confidence it is a good thing you ended things with him. If you truly cared about him, you would have NOT done this.

Since you cheated on him, you have ended things with that alone.
The fact you cheated on him doesn't make you a horrible person but it just shows that you have no feelings for him and I'm happy to hear you ended things.

NF's, and I thought most people, tend to view even the most casual relationships as only having sex with one person- the person you are in the relationship with.

If you truly love someone, you can't cheat on that person- it is impossible, otherwise, you don't truly love him or her.
To cheat on someone is basically saying, "I'm too immature to handle a relationship and just want to sleep around."

[Modern Nomad]

Fast forward a few weeks later: I get completely trashed and slept with his best friend by accident and he is angry/hurt about it.


lolz

uh how do u sleep w someone's best friend on accident???

just get him and ur best girl friend drunk in a room, get them to fkk in front of u, and masturbate to him bangin her. thats the least u can do!

[MacGuffin]

lolz

uh how do u sleep w someone's best friend on accident???

just get him and ur best girl friend drunk in a room, get them to fkk in front of u, and masturbate to him bangin her. thats the least u can do!

Time to log off until you regain mastery of the English language.

[Harlow_Jem]

lolz

uh how do u sleep w someone's best friend on accident???

just get him and ur best girl friend drunk in a room, get them to fkk in front of u, and masturbate to him bangin her. thats the least u can do!

lmfaozz. uh well, sometimes there's hardcore drugs involved. And these drugs combined with alcohol interact with one another in your stomache and thus the toxicity level of the multiple substances in your body is raised and you lose consciousness or get into semi-conscious state where you don't have the knowledge of what you're doing or control of yourself.

[Modern Nomad]

Time to log off until you regain mastery of the English language.

its funny that you think someone will listen to you. try laughing at yourself. =)

[Harlow_Jem]

its funny that you think someone will listen to you. try laughing at yourself. =)

Try not laughing at yourself and see if what you find without the laughter is tolerable even to yourself.

[Modern Nomad]

lmfaozz. uh well, sometimes there's hardcore drugs involved. And these drugs combined with alcohol interact with one another in your stomache and thus the toxicity level of the multiple substances in your body is raised and you lose consciousness or get into semi-conscious state where you don't have the knowledge of what you're doing or control of yourself.

uh...

he actually believed you? how did u pull that off? even e+alcohol, weed + alcohol, coke + alcohol, ah well watevers. its ur life.



omg i can't believe that just happened...

*gracefully exits*

[FDG]

lmfaozz. uh well, sometimes there's hardcore drugs involved. And these drugs combined with alcohol interact with one another in your stomache and thus the toxicity level of the multiple substances in your body is raised and you lose consciousness or get into semi-conscious state where you don't have the knowledge of what you're doing or control of yourself.

LoL at this excuse. If that was true, it'd be a rape.

[runvardh]

In my experience, unless I don't want to get shagged that night I stay away from the weed and alcohol combination. I become a babbling couch pillow that can't hit on shit unless there are girls out there who are into the chemically semi-paralyzed and are willing to do everything themselves.

[lookoutbelow84093]

All I can say to this thread is WOW. Ok im not an ENFJ but ill give my 2 cents as an INFP. To the OP this is meant as constructive criticism so please take it as such-

1) I cant speak for all NFs but when im dating someone (unless otherwise stated) its not that I necessarily think we ARE IN a monagmous relationship but we are moving towards one (this is intensified by sex). The fact that you slept with him and then went to see your ex would make me feel betrayed, confused, angry, hurt, pissed, INADEQUATE, and just plain uber pissed.
2) The fact that you then slept with his friend reinforces this. So you were intoxicated, you should know the results of losing control are still responsible for what happens (his friend is as responsible but to the ENFJ). You just committed a sin of major criminality because you not only betrayed his trust (even if you only went out with the guy a few times) but now your invading his space. I would be pretty conflicted about this as well.
So basically what you did was stuff a firecracker into a plumb and lit the fuse. You cant be angry about his maturity level when it doesnt explode the way you want it to. I get the impression you also had feelings for him since you wanted to try and work things out. The bottom line is he recognizes your position, and appreciates that you are making this effort, but there is no way he can trust you and rightly so. You hurt him and he wanted to move forward, but also probably wanted tobuild some good feelings with you (hence sweeping it under the rug) and establish some trust before he opened up again. In the future with situations like this I would give it some time. He probably also feels bad about reading your messages without your permission (thats just not cool). But as far as the relationship goes your the one who lit the fuse. I agree however that he should improve his communication but to be honest with that big of a foul it would be all I could do to not go nuts.

[lookoutbelow84093]

Me and him are way over. Ended HORRIBLY.


It kind of reinforces my theory that some men really tend to think with their dicks, not their heads.

Uhhh NO.

[runvardh]

Sorry, but if a fellow NF walks into an open relationship expecting to own the other person is not going to get my sympathy when the other person goes and screws someone else. Some people like to think they can handle that kind of relationship when they really only mean it for themselves. Sorry, lookoutbelow, but the guy is just as guilty for being greedy and naive.

[lookoutbelow84093]

Yeah my bad didnt come out as well now that Im rereading it. Its more that I meant if Jem wanted a serious relationship that is what I was referring to above. I definitely think that if he wanted anything more serious with you HE should have communicated that at some point. Although sleeping with his friend was over the line IMO. Sorry for any confusion.

[Harlow_Jem]

It kind of reinforces my theory that some men really tend to think with their dicks, not their heads.

Uhhh NO.


By that statement I wasn't trying to make a generalized sexist comment, I meant that I know he probably knew that we were completely imcompatible/wrong for each other personality and temperament wise when we met but probably overrode that thought from his head because of sexual attraction.

Although it kind of is a generalized sexist comment. ha.

[lookoutbelow84093]

Yeah I hear you. I just think that in this case he may not have known you were wrong for each other and his intentions really were to work something out with you. I know that a lot of NF men feel they dont make a good impression or are trying too hard when they meet women they would otherwise connect well with. This can sometimes get things started off on the wrong foot.

[Harlow_Jem]

I just thought it would amuse the shit out of some of you to know that we're somewhat back together.

[sanveane]

lol, did you ever send that letter to him?

[Synarch]

I just thought it would amuse the shit out of some of you to know that we're somewhat back together.

No, that actually sounds about par for the course.

[Harlow_Jem]

lol, did you ever send that letter to him?

No, I sent a letter that was translated into Feeler's language by my ENFP best friend who took one look at the original letter and practically screamed that he would without a doubt, probably try to burn my house down out of spiteful rage.

[sanveane]

mwahaha, ('Feeler's language'), just as well then...

[Harlow_Jem]

There is almost nothing at this point that I would like than to make this work. And this has never happened to me before. I acknowledge his weaknesses as an ENFJ which sometimes make me angry that I even give two shits about someone whose weaknesses I would otherwise never tolerate in anyone else: (Ex. Why does he always have to be such a goddam people pleaser all the time? Why doesn't he just go dress up as Ronald Fucking Mcdonald and play out his fantasies of trying to put a smile on the face of every person he meets? Why does he take things so stupidly personal and get so goddam rageful and never tell me about how he feels until he decides it's time to explode?)

I know, it sounds like I hate him, but that's just my blunt way of saying that I acknowledge all these things about him and yet, adore the shit out of him. Because, he's genuinely the sweetest boy I've ever met. And I know I can never lose faith in that he will be successful in anything he chooses to take on because I'm that sure of his capabilities. And I admire the way he is able to feel things so deeply because he makes me realize inside of my cold bitch of a self, there is something that wants to be able to feel the way he does about life and people.

So can someone please help me understand how an E/INTJ can tone down their bluntness/unintentional harshness/unintentional coldness and try to effectively communicate and foster something good with an ENFJ?

[Udog]

You have this topic so spread out I'm not sure what I missed, BUT...

Has he finally started to concede that you weren't 100% to blame in your cheating? Has he put any of the blame onto his 'friend'? Until he understands (even if just alittle at first) he won't be able to sympathize, and until he can sympathize he won't be able to forgive. Until he starts to forgive the relationship will not be healthy, and you will become one of those couples that breaks up and gets back together every other month.

For him, I have to wonder if the emotional volatility and sex make you and the relationship a powerful drug that he can't break himself off of.

I do like your post though, and I can finally see there is some actual depth in your feelings for him. I wish you luck, and you seem to be on the right track, but at some point he is going to have to join you.

[Neo Genesis]

There is almost nothing at this point that I would like than to make this work. And this has never happened to me before. I acknowledge his weaknesses as an ENFJ which sometimes make me angry that I even give two shits about someone whose weaknesses I would otherwise never tolerate in anyone else: (Ex. Why does he always have to be such a goddam people pleaser all the time? Why doesn't he just go dress up as Ronald Fucking Mcdonald and play out his fantasies of trying to put a smile on the face of every person he meets? Why does he take things so stupidly personal and get so goddam rageful and never tell me about how he feels until he decides it's time to explode?)

I know, it sounds like I hate him, but that's just my blunt way of saying that I acknowledge all these things about him and yet, adore the shit out of him. Because, he's genuinely the sweetest boy I've ever met. And I know I can never lose faith in that he will be successful in anything he chooses to take on because I'm that sure of his capabilities. And I admire the way he is able to feel things so deeply because he makes me realize inside of my cold bitch of a self, there is something that wants to be able to feel the way he does about life and people.

So can someone please help me understand how an E/INTJ can tone down their bluntness/unintentional harshness/unintentional coldness and try to effectively communicate and foster something good with an ENFJ?

You could try to not assume some of his personality traits are weaknesses.

[lookoutbelow84093]

Yeah I agree with Udog. I think you are starting to be a bit more honest about your feelings for him, which is a major step imo. I also agree, however that you shouldnt view his traits as weaknesses. For example for myself, and a lot of NFs I know, one of the things that has made us really uesful is our staying power. Often times, long after there appears to be no logical point in continuing on a course of action, NFs all of the sudden go out of character and take the reigns when no one else will. A kind of belief. Now I may be confused but in this case I see some of his behavior as doing that in a way. Even after he had no reason to believe there was potential between the two of you he still held on on some level. It seems that sometimes the most aggressive, going for the victory types (lol ENTJs) tend to want to win, even at the sacrafice of what they really need (puric victory). The fact that your putting in effort and recognizing differences though is really cool though imo.