Another view on the 8

[entropie]

Well after reading some descriptions about the Enneagram 8 on the internet and from the forums now, I decided to give you the source, I have drawn my Point of View about the 8 from.

It is translated from german and I hope I didnt destroy its meaning. It takes a more spiritual / humanistic approach. It is less about structured analysis and thinking-based ways to look at things.

What I want to accomplish is not to shed some better light on a personality that is interpreted as the "overbearing controlling tyrann", I want to show something about their motives and I think that exerpt fits em well.

Ok here it is (1:1 translation, hope it is readable):

Type Eight
---
Live wires
-
Eights are often recognized on first sight, because they are taller than life. They bring their influence to bear and draw attention to themselves. They enter a room buzzing and everybody knows that they are there. They are often louder and stronger than the rest of us. They draw their energy from experiencing their own strength. They are live wires. The energy of the eight is reflected in their gestures, their faces - and it is taxing to others.
-
Simply too much !
-
If you spent half an hour together with an eight, you want to flee. It is too much, it is simply too much ! That is meant when talked about the "voluptuousness" of the eight. Everything they do, they exaggerate. And they do it in a way, others would call "negative".
-
Confrontation
-
They meet reality confrontational. For this "confrontational intimacy" others do not have the appreciation for. Their advances are to start to argument with you. And one could think the eight does not like me. In reality the eight tries to come closer to others by behaving this way. And the eight is surprised at the others backing out. In their inner world eights are often sad and they ask themselves: "Why does nobody like me?" Nevertheless they do not change their rules of their game. They always try the same "advance".
-
Bad boys
-
While ones are sample childs, eights are bad boys. Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting". One can imagine, how much problems eights have with church, where you are told: "Be nice and honest and good and pious". That makes no sense to an eight. The good guys are to eights sissies or cowards.
-
Altercation
-
An eight woman explained, she needed 40 years to develop confidence in Jesus. Because like Jesus was portraied - as blond, blue-eyed softie, who looks down smilieing on children - he did not tell her anything. This Jesus was not worth of her loving. Eights need someone, who get with them engaged into an altercation.
-
Justice
-
Eights do have, by factory design, a sense for justice. They see the dumbness and injustice in the world and they love to unmask it. They want to put mischief down. Without the eight the world would probably never change. One would get along with the dumbest systems.
-
Fighter
-
One should never try to challenge the eight. If you raise your voices, the eight raises his voice even higher. They love to fight and their is no price they would retreat for.
-
Hidden child
-
The key to the eight is to see the little boy or girl in them. You sometimes do not see it, but it is there all the time. They tend to show it in their whole life only to two or three other people. If eights start to behave like a wild and start bitching and roaring around and if you want to back off, it is the best to speak to the hidden child in them. Expect it that there is a hidden child.
-
The Protector
-
Eights try constantly to protect the little boys and girls in this world, everything that is weak and vulnerable. In the Developing World there are many missionaries, who are eights. They are ready to go through unbelievable offensivenesses. They take the greatest privations to help those people, who are in need of help. Their love towards the weak and vulnerable is boundless.
-
Passion
-
So if you try to inflate yourself and play the eight on them, they prick your ballon. But if you come weak and vulnerable, they will care for you out of their heart. At the end of their lives, eights sometimes carry a great burden around. They think about how many people, there have been who did not like them or who they have hurted. They actually stomp on others and spurn them. Their passion is equally their sin and their gift.
For eight this means: they have to overcome their devastating passions and they need to make way for life-making passions.
---

That is about it, thanks for reading, if you did so.

I think based on this description, their is no need for an Eight to be prone to a Te - function for example. With an existence based on passions.

Especially the last part about passions, I can rely to. And I find it very frightening..

[Xander]

Oh my.. perhaps I'm a little more 8 than I thought.....

Introverted 8... how's that fly? I meet my internal reality with force?????

[Anja]

Oh, entropie, I love this! It presents a fair and balanced view of the eight's place in society. As in all personality types it's a matter of motive and the quality of the "product" their acts create.

"Confrontational intimacy." A perfect phrase. Hee.

The point about the hidden wounded child, I think, is the key to helping eights with their anger issues.

[entropie]

Oh my.. perhaps I'm a little more 8 than I thought.....

Introverted 8... how's that fly? I meet my internal reality with force?????

I do not think that enneagram makes differences between intro- and extroverted.

There was that good thread from haphazard about "Intro- and Extroversion in society". She made two axis and she put entp for example wide on the energy extroversion scale, less on the social extroversion scale. That would meet the specifications for the eight :).

As concerned with your personal in- or extroversion. There are always to main functions that drive you, from which one is extroverted. My guess is an introverted 8 will have an harder time on that "self-sadness" thing.

Here is the link to the description, btw.:

Die neun Typen (http://www.enneagramm.de/typen.htm)

[Xander]

I do not think that enneagram makes differences between intro- and extroverted.

There was that good thread from haphazard about "Intro- and Extroversion in society". She made to axis and she put entp for example wide on the energy extroversion scale, less on the social extroversion scale. That would meet the specifications for the eight :).

As concerned with your personal in- or extroversion. There are always to main functions that drive you, from which one is extroverted. My guess is an introverted 8 will have an harder time on that "self-sadness" thing.

Here is the link to the description, btw.:

Die neun Typen (http://www.enneagramm.de/typen.htm)
Thanks but I'm afriad my german is far too rusty to be useful..

I'm thinking that someone's prediction of 9w8 may be closer than I thought... I'm almost assuredly a 9 but I'd not have thought of myself as an 8. They're too.... disruptive, or so I thought. Reading that post it makes more sense that it's disruption to clear the refuse and not just because an 8 cannot be bothered or is unfamiliar with more refined methods.

Oh and I wasn't thinking that my enneagram had any influence on my introversion or extroversion, merely the combination got me thinking...

[entropie]

@Anja , thanks

@Xander ok. And thank you too. I really want to get that overall wrong interpretation of 8's from the table :)

If you look for example in the wikipedia Enneagram of Personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality#The_nine_types), even the first sentence about 8's is wrong.

Eights do not want to be in control. Maybe my english is too bad to get the meaning but too me it just delivers a completly wrong impression of 8's already in the first place.

Btw.:

Ego fixation: vengeance , *rofl*

If I get that dumbass, who wrote this, I am going to show him vengeance xD

[Xander]

I really want to get that overall wrong interpretation of 8's from the table :)
That's actually what makes me chuckle when people write about 9s being push overs... INTP 9... I have lines... no one crosses them..... and lives.
:devil:

I guess it's the same plague as that which hampers the MBTI, people expect those of a type to display the well known characteristics. That just doesn't happen. With a group of people you may well find that the ESFJ is the quiet one who does little and the INTJ is ruling the roost. Hell when we get a bunch of introverts together it's the extroverts who usually end up quiet and fidgity :D

[entropie]

I guess it's the same plague as that which hampers the MBTI, people expect those of a type to display the well known characteristics. That just doesn't happen. With a group of people you may well find that the ESFJ is the quiet one who does little and the INTJ is ruling the roost. Hell when we get a bunch of introverts together it's the extroverts who usually end up quiet and fidgity :D

I absolutely agree. The next great mystery I will set my mind too is the ENTJ. I do not know already, if I am right about the fact that ENTJ's get completly misinterpretated, but I am going to find out.

[Xander]

I absolutely agree. The next great mystery I will set my mind too is the ENTJ. I do not know already, if I am right about the fact that ENTJ's get completly misinterpretated, but I am going to find out.
Yup. The whole "ENTJs are malicious and controlling" is completely missing the point where the ENTJ is trying to plan including people... it's just they frustrated as all NTs do with "stupid" people. Those who resist the new thinking not because they have something better but just because they can't understand it.

ENTJ = big huggable bear (just don't tell them I said so :) )

[entropie]

:D

[Delphyne]

I do not think that enneagram makes differences between intro- and extroverted.
That´s not quite true. The enneagram doesn´t cover the differences, but some types are more introverted, others more extraverted. Riso and Hudson figured out the following tendencies:
8, 7, 3, 2, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5 (from the most extraverted to the most introverted)
It makes sense. The most extraverted are the types of the assertive group (8,7,3), the compliant group (2,6,1) is following, and the most introverted are the withdrawn types (4,9,5).

If you look for example in the wikipedia Enneagram of Personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, even the first sentence about 8's is wrong.

Eights do not want to be in control.
The basis fear of eight is of being controlled, therefore they try to control and dominante their environment, so no one can take advantage of them. Eights value their strength and despise weakness. Why do you think the first sentence is wrong?

[Xander]

That´s not quite true. The enneagram doesn´t cover the differences, but some types are more introverted, others more extraverted. Riso and Hudson figured out the following tendencies:
8, 7, 3, 2, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5 (from the most extraverted to the most introverted)
It makes sense. The most extraverted are the types of the assertive group (8,7,3), the compliant group (2,6,1) is following, and the most introverted are the withdrawn types (4,9,5).
I think that's mixing the common definitions of extrovert and introvert there.. Introverts can be very assertive, they are just more concerned with what's going on inside their heads than what's outside of it.

That is of course unless you're talking about incidence of assertiveness... in which case scratch all that lot and I'll just say "yup". :)

[Delphyne]

I´m talking about the Hornevian groups, the social style. Introverts can be very assertive, I agree, it´s just not the same as being in the assertive group, which blow up their ego if stressed.

[Xander]

I´m talking about the Hornevian groups, the social style. Introverts can be very assertive, I agree, it´s just not the same as being in the assertive group, which blow up their ego if stressed.
You mean "blow up" as in a bird trying to keep warm or more as in a few sticks of TNT?

The thing is that I see it as Es tend to be more dominant under average circumstances but when pressed it's the introverts who engage that extroverted strain and become the controlling power. I have no theory why, it's just a pattern I've seen.

[entropie]

I do not know much how I or E or assertiveness is related to the Enneagram test, havent thought about it much. Your points sound intresting though.

--
@Delphyne

Imagine one day your son, whom you someday told by any accident, you are an eight, comes up to you with a text like this:

Eights value their own strength and desire to be powerful and in control. They concern themselves with self-preservation. They are natural leaders who can be either friendly and charitable or dictatorially manipulative, ruthless and willing to destroy anything in their way. Eights seek control over their own lives and destinies and fear being harmed or controlled by others.

When I first read it, I saw all hope is lost for me turning my face one day to some good side in the world. I saw myself drinking soup at a table together with the imperator deciding the faith of the galaxy.

It is true, that 8's do not want to be controlled. The author of the text probably did want to deliver the supposed decisiveness of the 8's, through picking out accurate words, but that so completly failed. Everybody who reads "They want to be in control", completly gets that wrong. He later corrected himself and said, "they do not want to be controlled". And that are two pair of shoes.

The other thing "They are natural leaders who can be either friendly and charitable or dictatorially manipulative". Does the author really think that the 8's acquire their goals, through black-and-white thinking ? If he holds me for that dumb, I am really going to grab my bat and drive to his home. Maybe he meant that 8's have two different faces they use towards people. But that then needs to be explained in more detail.

Maybe I am crazy or something, but I think this wikipedia article is X-rated.

[Haphazard]

If you spent half an hour together with an eight, you want to flee.

Does this mean that every single person I know is an eight?

[entropie]

*gg* well you PM'ed me like 3 times back that I see as complimenting :)

[Delphyne]

@ Xander

Guess my usage of the word wasn´t right. I mean the assertive group expands their egos, they make it bigger when faced with stress. Withdrawn types fit introverts better, because they tend to withdraw under stress. Though not all introverts are withdrawn types. There are a lot introverts who are Ones or Sixes and some Twos.

The thing is that I see it as Es tend to be more dominant under average circumstances but when pressed it's the introverts who engage that extroverted strain and become the controlling power. I have no theory why, it's just a pattern I've seen.
Fives have a line to Eight and are very good to hold their ground when pressed. Nines are the kings and queens of stubborn resistance. Nevertheless both tend to withdraw.

[entropie]

Fives have a line to Eight and are very good to hold their ground when pressed.

That is probably what makes em that sexy :wubbie: *grabs a cake and throws it in haphazard's direction*

*then covertly vanishes into the woods* xD

[Delphyne]

@ Entropie

One enneagram author (Claudia Naranjo) calls Eight “the sadistic character and lust”. I´m sure that sounds a lot better. ;) The enneagram is about fixations, passions and motivations, which controls a person. The mbti has a much more possitive approach. Every enneagram type is described in negative ways, because finally it´s about your main passion. Anger, pride, deceit, envy, avarice, fear, gluttony, lust and sloth. It doesn´t sound very nice.

Everybody who reads "They want to be in control", completly gets that wrong. He later corrected himself and said, "they do not want to be controlled". And that are two pair of shoes.
The eight has both pair of those shoes. Do you want me to grab an eight, drag him to this place and show you how eights like to take control? ;) Eights I met and who know the enneagram told me that they can identify with the need to be in control.

[entropie]

Yea well that then puts the whole enneagram test in question for me, if it is only about the negatives. I admit I havent read the other types.

I see you have made up your mind about this, so I wont invest too much time into this.

I just wanted to underline that what I am trying to do here, is to put up a finer understanding of this type, so it does not get compared to Te-ness or Bill Gates all the time.

If you think it is that simple, like presented on the wiki side, works for me, I dont...

[entropie]

Anyway I thought about my last post and I am sorry, did not want to insult you. It is just a hard time, when you are to be faced with any consequences at all and you have to accept that within the limitations of the context, you are not allowed to overstep your boundaries. Everything else would be building something new, out of a simple test.

Gosh I again forgot the word "insult". That like happened the fifth time in one week now xD

[Xander]

@ Xander

Guess my usage of the word wasn´t right. I mean the assertive group expands their egos, they make it bigger when faced with stress. Withdrawn types fit introverts better, because they tend to withdraw under stress. Though not all introverts are withdrawn types. There are a lot introverts who are Ones or Sixes and some Twos.


Fives have a line to Eight and are very good to hold their ground when pressed. Nines are the kings and queens of stubborn resistance. Nevertheless both tend to withdraw.
Yeah I guess extroverts do tend to expand first... I was thinking of their response when they take the first wound of such an assault.

Anyhow, so this means that 8s are the "never give up, never surrender" types?

ENTP 8 eh entropie.... I really don't envy your close friends and family :rofl1:

[Xander]

The eight has both pair of those shoes. Do you want me to grab an eight, drag him to this place and show you how eights like to take control? ;) Eights I met and who know the enneagram told me that they can identify with the need to be in control.
You can drag an 8? What's that make you then a super ENTJ 8 who's masquerading as an INFP?

[entropie]

Anyhow, so this means that 8s are the "never give up, never surrender" types?

ENTP 8 eh entropie.... I really don't envy your close friends and family :rofl1:

Yes but this definitly means too that the cause does not have to be worthless. I cant argue with delphine, if she for example only wants to remind me of the limitations of the enneagram test, while I overstepped the boundaries from the start on. On the other hand, it is pointless to have an arguement about it then, when the rules to the arguement are meant to overstep your boundaries.

I once had in my life such a close friend, I would say "never give up, never surrender". I so talked him to death that he in the end gave up on me. I guess that was the best for us all. Although I never really understood why he did it.

If I am ever to have childs, I am going to be a terrible father :)

[Haphazard]

Hey, I may be a five, but I'm not that greedy.

I just want your blood, sweat, and tears, and all the time in the world.

Entropie: Don't have kids. If you manage to restrain yourself, you will be a credit to your species.

[runvardh]

Hey, I may be a five, but I'm not that greedy.

You seem pretty sure on that one.

I just want your blood, sweat, and tears, and all the time in the world.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight... :peepwall:

:rofl1:

[entropie]

Entropie: Don't have kids. If you manage to restrain yourself, you will be a credit to your species.

Bet you are right xD. With my possible girlfriend most likely to be iNFj and her most likely to have the dominant genes, my child will be:

iNTj

Guess I need too have to shoot it then on the open field xD

[Delphyne]

@ Entropie

I don´t feel insulted.

Yea well that then puts the whole enneagram test in question for me, if it is only about the negatives.
I wasn´t talking about the enneagram tests and no, it´s not only about the negatives, it´s just more negative than mbti descriptions.

I admit I havent read the other types.
You surely missed a lot of good stuff. Masochism, narcissism, paranoia and so on. There are types who are more oriented towards the positive, whereas some types are really thrilled if a description has a pathologic flavor.

If you think it is that simple, like presented on the wiki side, works for me, I dont...
It´s not that simple, but it´s not wrong either.
Ego fixation: vengeance
Holy idea: truth
Passion/Vice: excess (lust)
Virtue: innocence
These are some of the basics, but it won´t tell you how an eight comes across.

just wanted to underline that what I am trying to do here, is to put up a finer understanding of this type, so it does not get compared to Te-ness or Bill Gates all the time.
Good idea. Te-dominant eights are the most obvious eights, but not the only ones. By the way, Bill Gates is not an eight. He´s more in the head. Just look at him talking.

[Xander]

Bet you are right xD. With my possible girlfriend most likely to be iNFj and her most likely to have the dominant genes, my child will be:

iNTj

Guess I need too have to shoot it then on the open field xD
INTJ 8.... isn't that like on of Asrael's stable buddies? Or was it the guy who walks fenris.... I forget :D

[entropie]

well then ok, I will dig into it.

I just get so repelled, when it comes to medical words like Masochism, narcissism, paranoia. They are all so limitating and can bring a wrong impression of an individual that would be by then compaired to a whole bunch of paranoid people for example. But I do get the point that is behind it.

[Xander]

well then ok, I will dig into it.

I just get so repelled, when it comes to medical words like Masochism, narcissism, paranoia. They are all so limitating and can bring a wrong impression of an individual that would be by then compaired to a whole bunch of paranoid people for example. But I do get the point that is behind it.
You talkin to me? :thelook:

[Santtu]

This is good stuff. I hadn't logged in to the MBTI for a few days.

I was in a miserable mood this night (still continues) for losing all of the jobs I had been going for. I ranted on my gf, "this subjective assessment in job interviews is utter shit." etc. In my head I knew competition, together with get-along-with-ism would be my kind of game.

Yes I regretted today a lot that I'm not being liked. Usually I shrug it off completely - but if someone's winning me on those grounds, it becomes terrible. My usual games don't require me to win popularity contests. And yes, I don't really get the core idea of "thinking everyone as potential friends".

Bah. I should go for careers where I can just do my stuff without having anyone subjectively evaluate me, apart from customers.

[Haphazard]

You talkin to me? :thelook:

Likely.

[entropie]

INTJ 8.... isn't that like on of Asrael's stable buddies? Or was it the guy who walks fenris.... I forget :D

That I really did not understand :).

---

I had that psychological examination of me once. I had lost my driving license, because I drove drunken, so I needed to undergo a pain-staking psychological evaluation.

The guy gave me a somewhat clean bill of health, because he knew I would not quit the drinking. But then in the end he said something that really knocked my head around. That was something, I would have never expected. He saied: "Do me a favour and do never forget that something that is wrong can not be justified to be right, simply by your passions."

If I think about it from my PoV from today (the incident is like 4 years ago), I just now notice what a brilliant man that was.

Havent lost my driving license since then by the way, got a clean bill of metal xD

[Delphyne]

You can drag an 8? What's that make you then a super ENTJ 8 who's masquerading as an INFP?
I only have to promise them the opportunity for a good fight and they beg me to drag them to this place. :D

[entropie]

I only have to promise them the opportunity for a good fight and they beg me to drag them to this place. :D

hahaha xD That I so did expect xD

[Delphyne]

Yes, I´m pretty predictable.
:cry:

[Haphazard]

Entropie? Sane?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

No.

[entropie]

*gg* that sentene you really can bring with that nice sarcastic flavour
---
What should be going on here ? Well...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

no.

---

xD

[Xander]

That I really did not understand :).
INTJ 8 = first sign of the end of the world/ ragnarok.. I was being flippant...

I had that psychological examination of me once. I had lost my driving license, because I drove drunken, so I needed to undergo a pain-staking psychological evaluation.
Question.
Did the examiner survive the experience?
The guy gave me a somewhat clean bill of health, because he knew I would not quit the drinking. But then in the end he said something that really knocked my head around. That was something, I would have never expected. He saied: "Do me a favour and do never forget that something that is wrong can not be justified to be right, simply by your passions."
A clean bill.... bet that cost you a packet :D
If I think about it from my PoV from today (the incident is like 4 years ago), I just now notice what a brilliant man that was.

Havent lost my driving license since then by the way, got a clean bill of metal xD
Obviously not found a decent fight on the road... yet... ;)

Make sure to buy a Reliant Robin as your next car... solves the problem...
I only have to promise them the opportunity for a good fight and they beg me to drag them to this place. :D
See I knew someone was on about me!!!

[entropie]

A clean bill.... bet that cost you a packet :D



:whistling:

You do not seriously call your badass cars Robin do you ? This would make up for the end of the world xD

[entropie]

Look this is: Vincent IV xD
1589 cm^3 , 16 V
max. torque 159 Nm @ 3600 rpm
max performace: 77 kW @5600 rpm (105 BHP)
high speed: 192 km/h that is 120 mph
acceleration from 0 - 100 kmh (0-62 mph) in 10,1 seconds
bad ass factor built in by factory design xD

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5840/dsc00670xb1.jpg

[Xander]

:whistling:

You do not seriously call your badass cars Robin do you ? This would make up for the end of the world xD
Err you've got that backwards me laddo. Try googling a Reliant Robin and you'll see where I was going... it's also known as the plastic pig ;)

[entropie]

haha, I googled it that is disgusting xD

[Haphazard]

For some reason I don't think an INTJ 8 would work very well.

[entropie]

Me neither. Would destroy my paragons.

This then again can be related to what delphine said. About some enneagram types being more extroverted than others, to say with Georges words.

[entropie]

One last thing that I have to say here:

YouTube - Lacrimosa - CopyCat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1f0nXqWqyI)

The lonlinest heart is always the greates tyran, love u all :heart:

---
[the Doctor thinks his programs is about to break down]
The Doctor: [to Captain Janeway] I've had something on my conscience for a long time. After I was first activated, I kept a record of what I considered your most... questionable command decisions. It's in my personal database. I hope you'll delete the file without reading it.
[to Tuvok]
The Doctor: Mr Tuvok, I violated the most sacred trust between a physician and his patient. I told Mr Neelix about the cutaneous eruption on your...
[bows his head in shame]
The Doctor: That was indiscrete. I hope you can forgive me.
[to Harry]
The Doctor: Ensign, at your recital last month, I told Lieutenant Torres that your saxophone playing reminded me of a wounded targ.
[Grabs Harry by the shoulders]
The Doctor: I should have put it more delicately! I'm sorry!
[to Seven]
The Doctor: Seven!
Seven of Nine: You should remain still.
The Doctor: You have no idea how difficult it's been, hiding my true feelings all these years, averting my eyes during your regular maintenance exams!
[the Doctor's holomatrix starts to glitch]
The Doctor: I know you could never have the same feelings for me, but I want you to know the truth. I love you, Seven!
[His program glitches again]
Seven of Nine: Your cognitive algorithms are malfunctioning.
The Doctor: Goodbye, my friends! Speak well of me!
[the Doctor disappears]
Captain Kathryn Janeway: Is he...?
B'Elanna Torres: No, I've got him.
[the Doctor reappears]
The Doctor: What happened?
B'Elanna Torres: I deleted the extraneous subroutines.
The Doctor: I'm not going to decompile?
Captain Kathryn Janeway: You'll probably outlive us all.
[Hands him back his mobile emitter]
Tom Paris: Doc? Anything else you'd like to confess?

[Haphazard]

I think with an INTJ 8... they'd probably implode. Too heavily pressurized. INTJs are already high pressure creatures in the first place, add to that too many 8 traits and you've got explosive decompression with simple paper cuts.

No... they wouldn't live too long. Poor things.

[Uberfuhrer]

I don't get how anyone attributes 8 to INTJ. 8s are, as a rule, extremely extroverted types.

I would say an INTJ would most likely be a 5. Moreover, a 5w4, since the INTJ relies primarily on intuition but is more emotionally detached and less expressive of feeling, as opposed to the 4w5. 5s can mistake themselves as 8s because both types are concerned with power. But the 5 is more cautious while the 8 goes after it headfirst.

[entropie]

xD Would be a waste of a lot of usefulness

What do you think about this one @haphazard:

YouTube - Bush - Chemicals Between Us (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9T55V-FY6A)

When I was in love for the first time, like 13 years ago, I tried to get her with my "Bush-songs" but I really never told her in words how I was feeling. She was a NT-type I would bet from my remembrance. But I can not tell, which one of the 4.

[Haphazard]

I can barely tell what they're saying. It doesn't really scream to me, "Date me plz :)"

[entropie]

well guess it really didnt. Thanks for your evaluation.

I guess I thought in those times, if I even descend to using feelings to get closer to her, she should see that I want to. Guess that is like trying to discuss quantum dynamics with a guinea pig. The prerequisites did not fit at all.

Well there was eventually that special day on a fair, she asked me if I would shoot her a rose. I fired a volley out of fifteen cannons and got her every rose that has been in the stack. I gave her one and I told her, how I feel about her. She said she has a guy in sweden she loves (who has blond hair and blue eyes). Then I asked for a farewell kiss. She gave me one, on the neck. Deep down on the neck. Gosh I hate that girl, until today :)

[entropie]

@haphazard, one last thing, what do you think about this:

YouTube - bugatti veyron top speed 407 km/h (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovNkwiHJCIA)

I have to come to watch him in emotional situations, because he is the king of emotions. I really would like to have the full video, but the link I had has been banned from utube.

It is the Bugatti Veyron with about 1001 BHP xD

[Haphazard]

He seems a bit dramatic.

Though... that looks like fun.

[entropie]

Thanks

:) :heart:

[FDG]

7w8s are the real shit

[6.4]

INTJ 8 here, INTJ 8w9s are quite common I think, INTJ 8w7? No chance

And that original post described a 8w7... in a way, it seems like a bunch of one-dimensional, superhero, macho bullshit to me

[entropie]

thanks, made me blush a little xD

[Haphazard]

*flops over*

[LeonardoLestat]

ieek

good stuff, so good that i stole it and posted it on my website :D hope you dont mind :blush:
Ronny 8w9 (http://www.geocities.com/ronny8w9)

[Maverick]

That's a really good description. It captures the essence of type 8...

I think based on this description, their is no need for an Eight to be prone to a Te - function for example. With an existence based on passions.

Yes because with feelings repressed (inferior Fi) so strongly comes passion. The gusto and excess comes from insistance on the external world.

[LeonardoLestat]

Well after reading some descriptions about the Enneagram 8 on the internet and from the forums now, I decided to give you the source, I have drawn my Point of View about the 8 from.

It is translated from german and I hope I didnt destroy its meaning. It takes a more spiritual / humanistic approach. It is less about structured analysis and thinking-based ways to look at things.

What I want to accomplish is not to shed some better light on a personality that is interpreted as the "overbearing controlling tyrann", I want to show something about their motives and I think that exerpt fits em well.

Ok here it is (1:1 translation, hope it is readable):

Type Eight
---
Live wires
-
Eights are often recognized on first sight, because they are taller than life. They bring their influence to bear and draw attention to themselves. They enter a room buzzing and everybody knows that they are there. They are often louder and stronger than the rest of us. They draw their energy from experiencing their own strength. They are live wires. The energy of the eight is reflected in their gestures, their faces - and it is taxing to others.
-
Simply too much !
-
If you spent half an hour together with an eight, you want to flee. It is too much, it is simply too much ! That is meant when talked about the "voluptuousness" of the eight. Everything they do, they exaggerate. And they do it in a way, others would call "negative".
-
Confrontation
-
They meet reality confrontational. For this "confrontational intimacy" others do not have the appreciation for. Their advances are to start to argument with you. And one could think the eight does not like me. In reality the eight tries to come closer to others by behaving this way. And the eight is surprised at the others backing out. In their inner world eights are often sad and they ask themselves: "Why does nobody like me?" Nevertheless they do not change their rules of their game. They always try the same "advance".
-
Bad boys
-
While ones are sample childs, eights are bad boys. Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting". One can imagine, how much problems eights have with church, where you are told: "Be nice and honest and good and pious". That makes no sense to an eight. The good guys are to eights sissies or cowards.
-
Altercation
-
An eight woman explained, she needed 40 years to develop confidence in Jesus. Because like Jesus was portraied - as blond, blue-eyed softie, who looks down smilieing on children - he did not tell her anything. This Jesus was not worth of her loving. Eights need someone, who get with them engaged into an altercation.
-
Justice
-
Eights do have, by factory design, a sense for justice. They see the dumbness and injustice in the world and they love to unmask it. They want to put mischief down. Without the eight the world would probably never change. One would get along with the dumbest systems.
-
Fighter
-
One should never try to challenge the eight. If you raise your voices, the eight raises his voice even higher. They love to fight and their is no price they would retreat for.
-
Hidden child
-
The key to the eight is to see the little boy or girl in them. You sometimes do not see it, but it is there all the time. They tend to show it in their whole life only to two or three other people. If eights start to behave like a wild and start bitching and roaring around and if you want to back off, it is the best to speak to the hidden child in them. Expect it that there is a hidden child.
-
The Protector
-
Eights try constantly to protect the little boys and girls in this world, everything that is weak and vulnerable. In the Developing World there are many missionaries, who are eights. They are ready to go through unbelievable offensivenesses. They take the greatest privations to help those people, who are in need of help. Their love towards the weak and vulnerable is boundless.
-
Passion
-
So if you try to inflate yourself and play the eight on them, they prick your ballon. But if you come weak and vulnerable, they will care for you out of their heart. At the end of their lives, eights sometimes carry a great burden around. They think about how many people, there have been who did not like them or who they have hurted. They actually stomp on others and spurn them. Their passion is equally their sin and their gift.
For eight this means: they have to overcome their devastating passions and they need to make way for life-making passions.
---

That is about it, thanks for reading, if you did so.

I think based on this description, their is no need for an Eight to be prone to a Te - function for example. With an existence based on passions.

Especially the last part about passions, I can rely to. And I find it very frightening..
There is 8w7 and there is 8w9; w9 draws inward and is alot like the ISTJ/ISFJ, only with a revolutionary plan full of architectural intellectualism.
And strange thoughts. :jew:

[niffer]

Bad boys
-
...Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting".


I've never looked at it this way before...hmm. And I've read up on the enneagram a LOT. Interesting, and true.