Who's fault is it?

[ThatGirl]

Ok so tonight I had to spend a significant amount of time with my longest relationship ex. He, I have decided by default, is an ESFP.

The time we spent together today was interesting. It was as though we never missed a beat which wasn't exactly a good thing.

I am a very self capable girl and often prefer to work solo, but everytime I get around this guy I turn into the biggest bossy delegator in the world. I seem to wait for him to do something or make any kind of decision, with anything. He never does. Finally I just start getting really mad at him and shouting orders left and right, and getting incredibly fruterated when I have to back track to fix what he has done or to watch every step to make sure things are done right the first time. He is the only guy that has yet to bring this savage side out of me, but he claims that I am just a monster by nature and that I wouldn't know any better.

Is it me or is it him? We just bring out the worst in each other.

[disregard]

You are responsible for your behavior, so it's your fault.

[ThatGirl]

You are responsible for your behavior, so it's your fault.

Fair enough.

[Edahn]

Thread over.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

I'm generally quite laid back with my friends... and if someone does something I think is stupid or inefficient, I might comment once as a joke, but generally just ignore the person's annoying habit (in your ex-boyfriend's case, chronic indecisiveness) from thereon in.

This insouciance was completely broken when I started dating an ISTJ... she'd talk only when prompted, would beg me for long e-mails but send me one-liners, would apparently never know what she wanted to do for an evening... couldn't even order one-half of the pizza's toppings! I began to get very frustrated and after six months of the relationship, began regularly criticizing her, trying to provoke her into more decisive and proactive behavior...

But it didn't work.

So a couple of months of separation (I was on holiday in a foreign country) during which even our phonecalls saw me tearing out my hair about the fact that she just didn't seem to have any initiative about even carrying a conversation... I broke up with her.

Period.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why the long story? Well, to establish my commiseration with you... but to also maybe take the edge off the blunt response you received... because I understand how frustrating it is... but it is your fault if you continue in this strain, because you're no longer going out, and even if you were, how successful was the relationship going to be if such an integral part of your then-boyfriend's personality vexed you so badly? He clearly isn't going to change (you make no mention of any effort on his part) and you're only getting more and more neurotic about his inefficiency and sloppiness... just as I became with my ex-girlfriend's blobbishness...

So you have to amputate... and if you value the 'friendship', then you just have to remind yourself that you're no longer going out with him and that your personal life is not going to be deeply affected by his idiosyncrasies... what you're feeling now is a hangover from the negative aspects of the relationship (try to remember the good points)... neither are you going to marry him, nor are you living with him, nor is he your personal assistant or vice-president of daily-life operations... if you remind yourself about that and finally let go, you may even be able to hang out with him in relative peace... though it seems you may have gone over the edge already.

[Edahn]

Ok so tonight I had to spend a significant amount of time with my longest relationship ex. He, I have decided by default, is an ESFP.

The time we spent together today was interesting. It was as though we never missed a beat which wasn't exactly a good thing.

I am a very self capable girl and often prefer to work solo, but everytime I get around this guy I turn into the biggest bossy delegator in the world. I seem to wait for him to do something or make any kind of decision, with anything. He never does. Finally I just start getting really mad at him and shouting orders left and right, and getting incredibly fruterated when I have to back track to fix what he has done or to watch every step to make sure things are done right the first time. He is the only guy that has yet to bring this savage side out of me, but he claims that I am just a monster by nature and that I wouldn't know any better.

Is it me or is it him? We just bring out the worst in each other.

Blaming won't really get you anywhere good. I'd bet it's just another pretext for you guys to get into some conflict, because that conflict, I'd bet (again) serves some purpose. Maybe it's the only way you know how to be yourself, or maybe you enjoy the intensity of the drama, or the honeymooning after the fight. Not sure.

In my experience, the only time you actually move forward in a fight is when you shift into a listening "mode." That mode has some very identifiable features: abstractly, you see you and your partner as a unit as opposed to adversaries, your objective shifts to resolving the conflict to both parties' satisfaction, rather than you're own, you expose weakness and vulnerability instead of seeking refuge in your own hurt and anger (which protects against anxiety and vulnerability); concretely, you shift in the language that you use from accusatory/adversarial (blame, "you did this") to something more cooperational (listening, "I felt like this after you said this), you calm your voice down, you let the other talk, and you listen without defending. You start to analyze things from a detached, objective perspective, describing what happened not in terms of right, wrong, and guilt, but as a series of events, considering why the conflict unfolded the way it did, and taking responsibility for your misbehavior, misunderstandings, and misattributions.

How to get there? I'm not 100% sure. I've noticed it happening when the fight escalates to the point that someone gets really hurt or threatens to withdraw (explicitly or implicitly). That activates the nurturing/empathy circuits or the "oh-shit" circuits (respectively) which forces the person to consider how their partner feels through all of this. I've personally found that not being stingy with your apologies is a good bridge to listening.

[runvardh]

I say it's your fault for letting yourself back into that situation...

[Tallulah]

I'd say you're just incompatible.

[CzeCze]

Along the lines of what Edahn said (when he wasn't being his mean, sarcastic self, LOL) is that you are ultimately responsible for your own behavior and you control (or should be able to control) how you *react* to other people. 'React' is like a bad word in self-help circles btw, b/c it implies you've given control over to other people and other things and are doing the knee-jerk.

Being responsible also means owning your thoughts and emotions and hopefully communicating clearly to people what you feel and why.

It's valid to say, "I feel like it takes you too long to decide on things and it ends up wasting my time. I feel you are disrespecting me by disrepecting my time and you tell me you'll come to a decision but you just lead me on. I feel like all you have to do is put more a little more effort into coming to a decision but you just don't care enough to and think primarily about what is comfortable for you. I know that all might sound 'irrational' but that's how I *feel* and it makes me angry when you can't come to a decision'. I'm not trying to argue with you on who's right or wrong, this is just how I feel and explaining to you why I get frustrated with you."

I've known some annoying ass super 'Ps' who can't get their shit together to save their lives. I just minimize my contact with these people and their impact on my life. I'm SO not annoyed anymore. :yes:

[Oberon]

If he's not engaging, he's not engaging. End of story.

[Hmm]

I'd say you're just incompatible.

Definitely. However, if you really want to stay with him and he is not budging on the matter, then you will have to be the one to change.

If you don't want to stay with him, then learn to choose a different type of guy so you have a better chance at being compatible.

[heart]

Ok so tonight I had to spend a significant amount of time with my longest relationship ex. He, I have decided by default, is an ESFP.

The time we spent together today was interesting. It was as though we never missed a beat which wasn't exactly a good thing.

I am a very self capable girl and often prefer to work solo, but everytime I get around this guy I turn into the biggest bossy delegator in the world. I seem to wait for him to do something or make any kind of decision, with anything. He never does. Finally I just start getting really mad at him and shouting orders left and right, and getting incredibly fruterated when I have to back track to fix what he has done or to watch every step to make sure things are done right the first time. He is the only guy that has yet to bring this savage side out of me, but he claims that I am just a monster by nature and that I wouldn't know any better.

Is it me or is it him? We just bring out the worst in each other.

Go to couples therapy. That's the only way to really know. It is impossible from merely reading your post to know if he's just laid back and/careful or if he really has a problem making decisions.

It's equally impossible to know if you're justfied in seeing him as being slow to make decisions or if you're just impatient with him.

[ThatGirl]

I don't like this guy and am not with him anymore. The thing is that we work in close proximity to one another so getting rid of him kind of isn't an option. We get along fine when we are not trying to get along or having to work together. Other than that I was just trying to understand why these things come about.

I have come to the conclusion that I have little patience for people and he is someone who likes to lean on others. Bad combo. I think it would be next to impossible for me to change what I am willing to tollerate when I am responsible for someones actions because they wont take ownership themselves. I guess I was subconciously trying to motivate him to not lean on me. Then again I never loved him so.

[InaF3157]

I wouldn't say either of you is at fault. You just rub each other the wrong way. Admonitions for you to control your feelings seem unrealistic. How can you control your involuntary annoyance or disgust? You are not an android. All you can do is not give vent to them (much).
I don't like this guy and am not with him anymore. The thing is that we work in close proximity to one another so getting rid of him kind of isn't an option. We get along fine when we are not trying to get along or having to work together. Other than that I was just trying to understand why these things come about.
I have come to the conclusion that I have little patience for people and he is someone who likes to lean on others. Bad combo. I think it would be next to impossible for me to change what I am willing to tollerate when I am responsible for someones actions because they wont take ownership themselves. I guess I was subconciously trying to motivate him to not lean on me. Then again I never loved him so.
That is the rub. Is there anyway to not have to work with him, despite working in close quarters? You may even find yourself wanting to help him out when you no longer are being forced to.

[Hmm]

I guess I was subconciously trying to motivate him to not lean on me. Then again I never loved him so.

If it's true that he is constantly leaning on you for help, rather you helping him without him ever asking for the help, then I think the best way is just to tell him in a nice way, not a nasty way, WITH YOUR WORDS, that you'd like him to learn how to not lean on you because it's become too taxing for you. And then follow that up by not helping him with these things anymore. Telling him with your words serves as a warning of what is to come and is the courteous thing to do. It's also important to be consistent and not help him anymore, even if he asks or seems desperate. When/if he does ask, just remind him of what you told him before. He may not like it or may fight it but it seems like the only way to solve the situation.

[Oberon]

It's my fault.

No, really. I am a wicked mouse.

[Maabus1999]

Cut ties if it is causing you this much stress(and this may mean changing your work environment). Yeah that is my INTJ talking but this just sounds like you are beyond trying to fix things. He'll get over it and move on. You can be polite about it the first time but you need to sever. If he continues to bug you, you may have to discuss this more with people you trust.

[01011010]

You are responsible for your behavior, so it's your fault.

I'd say you're just incompatible.

This seems it, in a nutshell.

[Terian]

It's not necessarily your fault or his. It's your subconscious reaction to his conflicting personality. The following is under the assumption that you are an ENTP:

There are several things going on here. Firstly, as an NT, you value competency. As an NT, you value your self-sufficiency, your independence. Sure, as a P, you're more likely to be accepting of other people's behavior, but you get a sort of claustrophobia when you have to take on more than your share of responsibility. By all means, you shouldn't have to be guiding his actions, but your Ne has developed a framework that contradicts his actions, so its extroverted nature, in conjunction with your Ti is urging you to take action to make things right. Now, in this context, you are breaking out of your mold of being an ENTP and are now regressing to your shadow function: the INTJ. Of course it's got to be frustrating- you're acting in a manner that is inherently uncomfortable for you. My suggestion would be to step back and objectify the situation as best as you can. Once you've rationalized things in your mind, try to snap back into your natural P- relax a little, and be accepting of other people's (often conflicting) personalities.

[Jack Flak]

I hardly have to read ThatGirl's post to assess that:
It's your fault for demanding perfection
And his fault for being born imperfect.

Life's a bitch, and then you die.

[Mighty Mouse]

Incompatibility is there obviously.

Emotional attachment is there obviously. (This does not have to mean positive emotions).

Drama is the result.

You keep engaging in it because part of you wants to. For some people, the drugs released thru dramatic experiences becomes an addiction.

Perhaps you just have to think about him or see him and your brain goes haywire. Try relaxing and being conscious of the thoughts that are attached to him and there you might find your why too.

Then let go.