View Full Version : Once a cheater always a cheater.
In your opinion, true or false?
spirilis
08-15-2008, 03:47 AM
yeah.
heart
08-15-2008, 04:00 AM
no
Randomnity
08-15-2008, 04:20 AM
I think it's almost always true, but not for everyone (absolutes are generally false).
I'm not sure which way to vote, because I don't want to be misleading.
CaptainChick
08-15-2008, 04:21 AM
Nope.
murkrow
08-15-2008, 05:08 AM
Nah, untrue.
pure_mercury
08-15-2008, 05:39 AM
Untrue. I cheated on one gf in college (who was a virgin and would not sleep with me; she did later on). I wouldn't do that again at this point. I'd like to think I am more mature, and that the whole sex issue would be talked about like adults in a future relationship, before it became committed.
CzeCze
08-15-2008, 05:47 AM
It's easier for some people to cheat than it is for other people.
I do think it's true that some people are 'cheaters' even when they are faithful. Meaning they are hard-wired or have stuff going on that makes them want to cheat or more likely to cheat than the 'average person'.
Kinda like the idea that an alcoholic is always an alcoholic, even if they swear off alcohol for the rest of their lives. They'll always want it and battle with it and once step off the wagon and they're toast.
Very few people are absolutely faithful and..fidel..itious (is that a word?)
In the short term, hell yes. If you are cheater, you're a cheater. You don't change for people, you change for yourself and selfish reasons.
So -- you're a cheater until you change.
That was a good explanation, I know.
I wonder, do most men cheat at some point in a long term relationship? I voted yes but thats mostly because i hate cheaters.
entropie
08-15-2008, 05:57 AM
true
Samuel De Mazarin
08-15-2008, 05:58 AM
I think it's mostly true.... but there are men (and women) who mature, or get out of the emotional turmoil which led them to cheat in the first place.
Generally, most people are weak and selfish... that's why it's mostly true.
entropie
08-15-2008, 05:59 AM
cheating is not a manly problem. It is a human problem. It mostly comes with people, who do not know what they want. And of that, we have a lot of
Samuel De Mazarin
08-15-2008, 06:00 AM
I wonder, do most men cheat at some point in a long term relationship? I voted yes but thats mostly because i hate cheaters.
From what I've read and heard and second-hand experienced, particularly in the U.S., at least one of the members of the vast majority of married couples has cheated at least once in their married life.
cheating is not a manly problem. It is a human problem. It mostly comes with people, who do not know what they want. And of that, we have a lot of
I aver that men cheat more than women, mainly because men tend to require far less emotional involvement in order to enjoy sex.
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:03 AM
From what I've read and heard and second-hand experienced, particularly in the U.S., at least one of the members of a married couple has cheated at least once in their married life.
And who cares ? The most important think is, if you would do it too. If someone else does it you would think, ah well someone did it already so I am not that person.
But in the end it would be all about how you evaluate your own decisions. If you dont like your girl, you should end it. If you like your girl and need to cheat on her, you should end it too.
But if you love her and you cheat on her, you definitly need to think about what master your heart or your penis is serving
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:05 AM
Men think love works when I am in the mood of it.
Some woman build foundations on love relationships.
To fuck another pussy is so stupid as compared to a foundation
heart
08-15-2008, 06:07 AM
From what I've read and heard and second-hand experienced, particularly in the U.S., at least one of the members of the vast majority of married couples has cheated at least once in their married life.
Isn't at something like 50-50?
I aver that men cheat more than women, mainly because men tend to require far less emotional involvement in order to enjoy sex.
Who are the men cheating with if women don't cheat too? :huh:
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:12 AM
you vote false didnt you ? xD
heart
08-15-2008, 06:14 AM
you vote false didnt you ? xD
Me? Yes, I think it all depends on the situation. Some people will always lie and cheat and some people have temporary poor judgment.
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:17 AM
Rebellious thinking...
Samuel De Mazarin
08-15-2008, 06:18 AM
Isn't at something like 50-50?
Who are the men cheating with if women don't cheat too? :huh:
I think men cheat more. I think it's possible that more cheating men cheat with a smaller number of cheating women supplemented by single women.
Infidelity Statistics (http://menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html)
The trend is that while the youth are about equal, when it comes to marriage, men are outperforming women.
"About 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an affair at some point in some marriage "Monogamy Myth", Therapist Peggy Vaugn"
"# 22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
# 14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives."
Different numbers, similar findings of statistically greater cheating-baaji by men.
heart
08-15-2008, 06:19 AM
Rebellious thinking...
How so?:huh:
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:20 AM
I would never be lucky, if I knew my wife would tolerate cheating. In the ultimate point of view, it would me make think, she is prone to it.
Mempy
08-15-2008, 06:21 AM
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
Isn't that as much as saying that human beings don't mature, acknowledge their mistakes, and develop as individuals? What's so special about cheating? Does getting a DUI mean you'll always be an alcoholic and get DUIs? Does dropping out of college mean you'll never go back, stick to it, and get a degree? Come on.
Edit: I'd like to know where the 'Hell, no' option is, please.
heart
08-15-2008, 06:22 AM
I would never be lucky, if I knew my wife would tolerate cheating. In the ultimate point of view, it would me make think, she is prone to it.
Who is tolerating cheating?
whatever
08-15-2008, 06:22 AM
I think that it's false- sometimes cheating is just brought on by circumstances.
I hate cheaters on principle that they're lying or betraying, but I have cheated on someone myself and don't feel bad about it. It was a product of circumstances. I don't see myself doing it again though- I wouldn't get in that situation again. :)
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:36 AM
Who is tolerating cheating?
Tell me
heart
08-15-2008, 06:39 AM
Tell me
I don't know anyone who does in my vast social circle. :D
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:41 AM
better change your vast inner circle :)
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:42 AM
I can not really go on arguing with you like this. I am heavily impaired, I am cheating my girlfriend with my bed already xD.
Just still here to watch what happens in the upper thread. I think nothing... but hope is still there :)
heart
08-15-2008, 06:44 AM
I can not really go on arguing with you like this. I am heavily impaired, I am cheating my girlfriend with my bed already xD.
Well, that must be one special bed. :D
ThatGirl
08-15-2008, 06:46 AM
I am not too bothered by cheating actually as long as the love is there
Perhaps I should clarify.
I don't believe in the whole mind body soul thing.
entropie
08-15-2008, 06:51 AM
I am not too bothered by cheating actually as long as the love is there
Perhaps I should clarify.
I don't believe in the whole mind body soul thing.
your miss
ThatGirl
08-15-2008, 07:11 AM
Not really. If you view cheating as only sexually based then the concept is lost.
I can be with someone that can meet a majority of my needs but asking anyone person to be capable of all seems unrealistic.
It explains why someone goes to church regardless of whether their spouse accompanies them. Why someone marries a much older man that can provide for them. Or why someone talks to friends that can mentally stimulate them. Or why people stay in abusive relationships that hold some kind of gratification for them.
At some point in your life you make a decision that help you to define the qualities that are most important to you and you choose a mate by those qualifications. Anything that is lacking will be met in other ways.
People choose to put up with these things because they know their spouse loves them but understands that they have individual interest outside of one operating system.
The best relationships are not those that can be everything but those that can accommodate to each others needs.
On a side note if a guy was physically cheating on me he wouldn't be getting any until a year had passed and he held a clean STD report in his hand.
Someone who has cheated is obviously capable of it and possibly inclined to it, but not necessarily incapable of future faithfulness. People don't change very often, but that's not to say no one ever changes. So more yes than no, I guess.
Little Linguist
08-15-2008, 09:12 AM
FWIW, I think it depends on how mature the person is - as someone already mentioned.
When you are 12 years old and go kissing with another guy when you have a boyfriend - well, sheesh that doesn't mean you'll cheat for the rest of your life. You are immature, silly, and trying new things.
Depending on when you start actually dating, I think there is a period of about 6-10 years where people mature. They try new, different, and forbidden things just because they are stupid. Yeah - okay, that could be. If a person does this, I do not think that it is indicative of a "cheater."
However, and this is a big *however*, if you start noticing this kind of behavior AFTER this initial development - NOWWWWWW we're getting into some dangerous water. Okay, let's be fair - let's say - if someone starts engaging in behavior like this after the early to late 20s. Now you've got yourself a classic cheater.
Men need a longer time to develop than women, so I think that is more than fair.
Entropie and Sammy made some excellent points.
If you are in a relationship, and you do not feel comfy, then cheating is just a weak, lazy cop-out. You need to sort out the problems through talking and listening and acting accordingly. IF you cannot talk and listen and improve, it is time to leave the relationship. That does not give a person - man or woman - a license to cheat on each other.
Sometimes I think people use relationship problems as an excuse to cover bad behavior. That is really low.
Some people never grow up. In this case, I agree with the people who said 'Once a cheater, always a cheater.'
But at some point, men AND women need to wake up, take responsibility for the relationship, and see to it that it works. You can't just jump ship or run to greener pastures behind someone's back as soon as someone lets a bad fart go. You need to have a constant, strong character.
That being said, a strong character develops only when you have had experience - sometimes bad ones. Once you go through a difficult time, you learn either not to do it again (if you are the cheater) or never to do it yourself (if you are the person being cheated on). That way, we learn.
Mempy
08-15-2008, 09:27 AM
Someone who has cheated is obviously capable of it and possibly inclined to it, but not necessarily incapable of future faithfulness. People don't change very often, but that's not to say no one ever changes. So more yes than no, I guess.
I just took this like a true-false test; if any part of the statement is false, it's all false. What I would mark true is: "Once a cheater, possibly always a cheater, but definitely not necessarily."
That being said, a strong character develops only when you have had experience - sometimes bad ones. Once you go through a difficult time, you learn either not to do it again (if you are the cheater) or never to do it yourself (if you are the person being cheated on). That way, we learn.
Very true. I think Whatever said something along the same lines. She said she cheated once because of the circumstances, but that she wouldn't put herself in those circumstances again.
Falcarius
08-15-2008, 09:48 AM
This thread could have really done with a few things:
a neutral option because this was not really a black and white question. See Cafe's post.
an option slitting the people who 'agree', 'disagree', and are 'neutral', into whether they have cheated themselves; it would have made it more interesting.:devil:
Xander
08-15-2008, 11:47 AM
False, in my experience.
Also it would seem that the words "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" needs to be repeated.
^ are you a cheater? Do you think that most men will cheat at some point in a long term relationship?
Xander
08-15-2008, 11:58 AM
^ are you a cheater? Do you think that most men will cheat at some point in a long term relationship?
No and no. Wrong tense :tongue10:
Some men are more prone to losing their way and some aren't bothered about it. Some women set their sights where they shouldn't and some aren't bothered.
It's all one great grand melee. Those who think that they are removed from it are either ignoring it or are hoping really really hard that it'll go away.
I don't think I'm removed from it but I know myself best and I couldn't/wouldn't cheat.
What about you?
Lateralus
08-15-2008, 12:27 PM
I voted false, but I think those who never do it again are the exception, rather than the rule. Those who do it once have shown they're capable of a callous disregard for their partner's feelings. That's not necessarily something that ends with maturity. When faced with similar circumstances at some point in the future, will they exert more willpower? I guess one of my biggest problems with cheaters is the weakness of character the behavior displays. Even when I'm not the offended party, I find it difficult to trust a cheater.
That said, I've never cheated, so I have never experienced that mindset. So maybe I'm full of shit.
Xander
08-15-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't think I'm removed from it but I know myself best and I couldn't/wouldn't cheat.
What about you?
I found it took one mistake, one situation which I was not prepared for and all my nicely organised sensibilities flew out of the window in a combination of panic and just being overwhelmed. The same as you should never hit anyone just cause you're angry, cheating can sometimes get the better of you. I certainly wouldn't declare someone a psychopath just because they lost their temper in a manner I found innappropriate according to my upbringing.
And if it seems like I'm defending the behaviour I'm not. It was my worst and most depressing time in my life. It's just that I realise now that it's not permanent, it can be changed and people should not be targetted or prejudged because of past behaviour. Well not unless everyone wants to be thought of of someone who has stinky nappies.
Everyone makes mistakes and some bear greater costs but it seems unwise to declare another's mistake as unrepairable.
Jennifer
08-15-2008, 01:00 PM
So -- you're a cheater until you change.
Yeah, that.
ceecee
08-15-2008, 01:11 PM
I don't believe so. I don't think it's that black and white.
This is silly as it sounds, but I wonder if one type is more likley to cheat than another? Are E/INTP's big cheaters and INTJ's angels? ;P
Jennifer
08-15-2008, 01:44 PM
This is silly as it sounds, but I wonder if one type is more likley to cheat than another? Are E/INTP's big cheaters and INTJ's angels? ;P
yeah, that.
*cough cough cough*
sounds as though you have a nasty cough. you better take care of that throat dear. :hug:
Rachelinpa
08-15-2008, 01:53 PM
Would you give someone who cheated on you a second chance?
Once a cheater, always a cheater with you...
Or once a cheater, always a cheater in general...
colmena
08-15-2008, 01:55 PM
This is silly as it sounds, but I wonder if one type is more likley to cheat than another? Are E/INTP's big cheaters and INTJ's angels? ;P
Are you suggesting an INTP found two people to sleep with?
Lateralus
08-15-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't believe so. I don't think it's that black and white.
While I don't care how other people feel about cheaters, I personally see the issue as black and white. When you enter a romantic relationship, you've made a commitment, a verbal contract of sorts. When one of the parties cheats, they have broken that contract. I realize that most people don't assign the same importance on this as I do. The circumstances would have to be extraordinary for me to break a commitment. For me, it would have to be on the order of threats of physical harm for me to break my word.
Edit: After thinking about it a little more, while I do care about my partner's feelings, those feelings wouldn't be the first roadblock that I would encounter when considering cheating. I care more about what cheating would say about me.
I just took this like a true-false test; if any part of the statement is false, it's all false. What I would mark true is: "Once a cheater, possibly always a cheater, but definitely not necessarily."
Good point.
Would you give someone who cheated on you a second chance?
Once a cheater, always a cheater with you...
Or once a cheater, always a cheater in general...
I believe I would give one second chance. Anybody can screw up once. A second time means it's not a screw-up, it's a pattern.
Perseus
08-15-2008, 02:25 PM
Depends on the definition of cheater.
One I knew from a very young age seemed to have larceny in his veins.
Other cheaters may be under the influence of a cheater, a cheater by proxy, and, not, therefore pure cheaters, but just acting cheaters, and if they become under the influence of another may change their habits. Others may just cheat (a little white lie) when under stress, compelled by circumstances, so it is far from always true, so much so that it is false, Guv. NOT GUILTY.
entropie
08-15-2008, 04:10 PM
Not really. If you view cheating as only sexually based then the concept is lost.
I can be with someone that can meet a majority of my needs but asking anyone person to be capable of all seems unrealistic.
It explains why someone goes to church regardless of whether their spouse accompanies them. Why someone marries a much older man that can provide for them. Or why someone talks to friends that can mentally stimulate them. Or why people stay in abusive relationships that hold some kind of gratification for them.
At some point in your life you make a decision that help you to define the qualities that are most important to you and you choose a mate by those qualifications. Anything that is lacking will be met in other ways.
People choose to put up with these things because they know their spouse loves them but understands that they have individual interest outside of one operating system.
The best relationships are not those that can be everything but those that can accommodate to each others needs.
On a side note if a guy was physically cheating on me he wouldn't be getting any until a year had passed and he held a clean STD report in his hand.
I get your point, good point :)
InaF3157
08-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Depends. Do you believe people get character makeovers? I am skeptical about that possibility. I would say more often than not the person remains the cheating sumbitch s/he was, whether or not s/he gets the opportunity of another set of "special circumstances" to reprise the role. I won't be hamstrung by the rigidity of choices. "True" is more often the case than "false," so I will go with that.
Dysentery_Fairy
08-16-2008, 12:29 AM
I think it depends on the person your with. I need someone who will constantly challenge me, turn me on, as well as keep my interest.
Hmmm... perhaps this is why I keep cheating???
heart
08-16-2008, 12:34 AM
I think it depends on the person your with. I need someone who will constantly challenge me, turn me on, as well as keep my interest.
Hmmm... perhaps this is why I keep cheating???
I seriously doubt that's the reason.
rhinosaur
08-16-2008, 12:36 AM
Speaking from experience, false.
EffEmDoubleyou
08-16-2008, 09:43 AM
I think that there are definitely people who are inveterate cheaters, who will do it just because that's what they do. But I don't think that everyone who cheats is a member of this group. I do allow that sometimes people make a dumb, isolated mistake.
NoMoreFun
08-16-2008, 10:56 AM
False.
Some people might be compulsive cheaters and some people might do it once.
And by the way, I don't think men cheat more than women but I do think women are so much better at hiding when they do it!
I think that there are definitely people who are inveterate cheaters, who will do it just because that's what they do. But I don't think that everyone who cheats is a member of this group. I do allow that sometimes people make a dumb, isolated mistake.So if you were in a committed relationship with someone for lets say 10 years, and she had sex with another man, you'd give her a second chance? I've had this discussion with my husband (as well as countless other people in the past) and he told me if I ever did anything like that, we'd be so over. That there would be no going back and that he would never be able to get the image of another man banging his wife out of his mind and I believe him as he rarely says things to get a reaction. In fact I think it would be easier for me to forgive him if he cheated, than him to forgive me. That's not saying I would forgive him, I actually don't know how I would react which is scary because that means I could go completely crazy and I hope that's enough for him not to ever do something so stupid.
Little Linguist
08-16-2008, 01:37 PM
So if you were in a committed relationship with someone for lets say 10 years, and she had sex with another man, you'd give her a second chance? I've had this discussion with my husband (as well as countless other people in the past) and he told me if I ever did anything like that, we'd be so over. That there would be no going back and that he would never be able to get the image of another man banging his wife out of his mind and I believe him as he rarely says things to get a reaction. In fact I think it would be easier for me to forgive him if he cheated, than him to forgive me. That's not saying I would forgive him, I actually don't know how I would react which is scary because that means I could go completely crazy and I hope that's enough for him not to ever do something so stupid.
*sigh* I can so relate to that. Not that I think my husband would ever cheat on me, but if he did, I do not know how I would react. Most likely I would implode rather than explode, however....Since that is how I act in a stressful situation. I become pedantic, obsess, and turn inward when I am under stress. Which probably means I would probably go into the deepest depression a person could imagine - wondering what was wrong with me, if I had any purpose or value, and then totally act like a nut. :shock: But it is hard to say. When I do explode, it is deadly (not literally, but you know what I mean - I'd probably leave and never look back).
I wouldn't turn inward, I am sure of that.
Night
08-16-2008, 01:44 PM
No. Circumstances change; context shifts.
I'd imagine that most women would probably feel more betrayed if their mate fell in love/shared intimate romance during infidelity.
Many men would probably find the physical act much more grotesque.
Little Linguist
08-16-2008, 02:31 PM
I wouldn't turn inward, I am sure of that.
For me, it depends on what is making me angry, how angry I am, and how well I can control myself on any given day. But I'm not exactly sure how it all plays a role yet. :huh:
and I believe him as he rarely says things to get a reaction.
I'm sorry, I just had an uncontrollable giggle fit. :smile:
I voted no. I pretty much agree with FMW--some people are just cheaters and will never choose to change, but not everyone who cheats is destined to cheat again. Like cze cze said, you're a cheater 'til you change.
If my husband cheated, I'd be devastated. I would like to think that if he were regretful and it was a moment of weakness thing and not a separate love relationship, that I could forgive him and not lose the fifteen years we have invested. He's a good man.
I think I could only do that once, though. If I forgave and we went on and he did it again, it would be an even bigger betrayal than the first time and I don't think I could heal from that.
Uberfuhrer
08-16-2008, 04:12 PM
Technically, it is true, because it's impossible to change the past, unless you're Emmett Brown.
Technically, it is true, because it's impossible to change the past, unless you're Emmett Brown.
Not a bad point actually. I want to believe I could forgive but I don't have any illusions that I could forget.
Uberfuhrer
08-16-2008, 04:33 PM
Well, if we're talking about forgiveness, that's something I wouldn't do. It's just an invitation to let others take advantage of you again.
Well, if we're talking about forgiveness, that's something I wouldn't do. It's just an invitation to let others take advantage of you again.
How's that working out for you?
Lateralus
08-16-2008, 04:56 PM
How's that working out for you?
I find it interesting that most people are answering from the viewpoint of a victim, rather than a perpetrator.
I understand Uber's viewpoint. Every relationship involves risk. The more you get burned, to more difficult it becomes to expose yourself to more risk. If someone has had little or no success in relationships, I find their hesitance understandable.
I find it interesting that most people are answering from the viewpoint of a victim, rather than a perpetrator.
Is there anyone who would answer as a perpetrator that they would never be anything but a cheater? I'm sure there are a few but for the most part they would avoid long-term relationships in the first place. I think most people are coming at this one from the perspective of the one who has been cheated on, since it's kind of a moot point otherwise.
Lateralus
08-16-2008, 05:03 PM
Is there anyone who would answer as a perpetrator that they would never be anything but a cheater? I'm sure there are a few but for the most part they would avoid long-term relationships in the first place. I think most people are coming at this one from the perspective of the one who has been cheated on, since it's kind of a moot point otherwise.
I don't agree that it's moot. I think it would be much more interesting for people to put themselves in the position of someone who had the opportunity to cheat and consider how they would act.
But the question is about after the cheating, whether it's destined to happen again and again. Speaking only for myself, I could hypothetically explore the circumstances under which I could conceivably cheat once (spouse in a coma, abusive spouse, etc) but I would find it difficult to imagine being a serial cheater without also imagining being an entirely different person, which doesn't seem very useful.
Lateralus
08-16-2008, 05:10 PM
But the question is about after the cheating, whether it's destined to happen again and again. Speaking only for myself, I could hypothetically explore the circumstances under which I could conceivably cheat once (spouse in a coma, abusive spouse, etc) but I would find it difficult to imagine being a serial cheater without also imagining being an entirely different person, which doesn't seem very useful.
I don't see the way the question is phrased to be limiting. It's actually pretty vague.
I don't really expect an interesting answer from you, given your circumstances. ;) (I won't tip off Noah, I promise!) But I think there could be some interesting answers from other members.
I don't see the way the question is phrased to be limiting. It's actually pretty vague.
I don't really expect an interesting answer from you, given your circumstances. ;) (I won't tip off Noah, I promise!) But I think there could be some interesting answers from other members.
Wear the dark sunglasses next time dammit!
I interpreted the question as being directed at the cheated-on, since you can never fully know your partner's mind and you would have to either trust them or not. Since you inhabit your own mind, presumably people who cheat don't have that kind of uncertainty about themselves. I would assume that most people think they can change, or that their circumstances made it not-really-cheating.
Whether or not you can fully know your own mind is a question for another thread I guess.
I'm sorry, I just had an uncontrollable giggle fit. :smile:he's not that way with me cuz I'm speshul and let him grab my bewbs whenever he wants.
Samuel De Mazarin
08-16-2008, 06:18 PM
he's not that way with me cuz I'm speshul and let him grab my bewbs whenever he wants.
Oh, man... I've only had that arrangement (like, as long as it's not in public, whenever I want) with two girls during the ten years I've been active with women... it was wonderful...
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 06:20 PM
False.
Some people might be compulsive cheaters and some people might do it once.
And by the way, I don't think men cheat more than women but I do think women are so much better at hiding when they do it!
I think there's something to that. Men are more likely to be oblivious to others' feelings of, shall we say, "less than total love" for them and the behavior that comes with it.
Cheating strikes me as an act of aggression, which I generally do not reconcile with love, so forgiveness is doubtful. Even if it is granted, it is no assurance of no later payback.
I would like to think that if he were regretful and it was a moment of weakness thing and not a separate love relationship, that I could forgive him and not lose the fifteen years we have invested. He's a good man.
I think I could only do that once, though. If I forgave and we went on and he did it again, it would be an even bigger betrayal than the first time and I don't think I could heal from that.Moment of weakness? wtf? how difficult is it for a man to keep his dick in his pants? L and I both do our best to make sure our sexual needs are met so I can't think of a reason why he'd need to be that stupid. On the other hand if a woman is so naive to think that if she never puts out, her husband won't go sniffing around for one who will, is the stupid one.
Tallulah
08-16-2008, 06:34 PM
I don't think it's necessarily true that someone is incapable of change, but the problem is that it introduces the possibility that they'd do it again, that seed of doubt, into the relationship. It's hard to get back the trust and security that was there before the cheating happened. It would be nearly impossible for me to forgive a cheater, simply because I don't open up and trust very easily, and if you win my trust and then betray it, my inclination will be to shut down and protect myself again.
Moment of weakness? wtf? how difficult is it for a man to keep his dick in his pants? L and I both do our best to make sure our sexual needs are met so I can't think of a reason why he'd need to be that stupid. On the other hand if a woman is so naive to think that if she never puts out, her husband won't go sniffing around for one who will, is the stupid one.
I don't know why you are so focused on the men in this scenario. Plenty of women cheat.
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 06:42 PM
Moment of weakness? wtf? how difficult is it for a man to keep his dick in his pants?
:laugh: Seriously "Honey I slipped, lost my balance, and accidentally slept with him/her."
If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
I don't know why you are so focused on the men in this scenario. Plenty of women cheat.I was responding to your comments about your husband but sure I'd be happy to talk about women who cheat and women who only date married men. :yes:
Jae Rae
08-16-2008, 06:53 PM
"Once a cheater, always a cheater?" No.
Some people cheat over and over again. It's their nature and they aren't that bothered by it. If it affects their relationship, they go out and find another. This kind of person often tries to blame his/her partner, because people who cheat are looking outside themselves for someone to make them happy. Therefore if they're not happy, it must be their partner's fault, ergo it's time for a new partner.
Others cheat and find/figure out what it means to their committed relationship and they make up their mind not to lose that person, whatever it takes. There are plenty of people who've had close calls, had their consciousness raised and been faithful after that.
Still others cheat, feel bad about it and try to do better, but fail to stick to their resolve. These are the heartbreakers because they aren't getting to the real problem. They don't blame you necessarily, but they aren't mature enough to be in a truly committed relationship.
I've known some in each category. I agree with the twice burned theory. I might give a guy another chance. But a second time? That's too hard to fix and too painful to put up with.
Lateralus
08-16-2008, 06:55 PM
I don't know why you are so focused on the men in this scenario. Plenty of women cheat.
When women cheat, men deserve it?
I was responding to your comments about your husband but sure I'd be happy to talk about women who cheat and women who only date married men. :yes:
My comments were meant to draw a distinction between a one-time thing and a love relationship. I don't think I'm alone in drawing that distinction. I believe men tend to fear their spouses having sex with someone else, and women tend to fear their spouses falling in love with someone else. Clearly I don't want or expect either of those things to happen, but I could FAR more easily get over a one-time sex thing than I could him loving someone else.
How would you know if it was indeed a one time thing?
Jae Rae
08-16-2008, 07:08 PM
How would you know if it was indeed a one time thing?
Good point. I suppose I meant I wouldn't forgive and trust someone after finding out about a second time.
I guess you would have to gauge how much you believe their account of it. I would also expect someone who loved the other person to be less motivated to repair the marriage. If he seemed very motivated to repair the marriage I'd be more likely to believe it was a sex thing and not a love thing.
Good point. I suppose I meant I wouldn't forgive and trust someone after finding out about a second time.
Right, like I said earlier-- I think I could only do that once, if at all.
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 07:24 PM
I guess you would have to gauge how much you believe their account of it. I would also expect someone who loved the other person to be less motivated to repair the marriage. If he seemed very motivated to repair the marriage I'd be more likely to believe it was a sex thing and not a love thing.
Wow. So you're willing to forgive as long as he can convince you he don' love dem hoes?
Wow. So you're willing to forgive as long as he can convince you he don' love dem hoes?
I'd be willing to try again. We have fifteen years invested in a marriage together that has been pretty awesome, so I wouldn't throw that away if he were regretful and wanted to recommit to me. It would mean marital counseling, and a lot of it, but it would not mean instant divorce for me.
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 07:30 PM
I'd be willing to try again. We have fifteen years invested in a marriage together that has been pretty awesome, so I wouldn't throw that away if he were regretful and wanted to recommit to me. It would mean marital counseling, and a lot of it, but it would not mean instant divorce for me.
What conclusions would you draw from the fact that he was willing to trash the 15 years you had invested together for a quick romp?
What conclusions would you draw from the fact that he was willing to trash the 15 years you had invested together for a quick romp?
That he did something extremely stupid and callous, like humans sometimes do? I'd be angry and hurt, don't get me wrong. I just can't say it would mean taking the kids and dissolving the marriage.
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 07:35 PM
You wouldn't doubt how much he valued the investment?
You wouldn't doubt how much he valued the investment?
OF COURSE I would. I would want him to redemonstrate his value and commitment as part of the healing process.
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 07:40 PM
Your husband is lucky. ;)
Or smart.
disregard
08-16-2008, 07:44 PM
If you steal, you are forever a thief.
If you cheat, you are forever a cheater.
We are all guilty of something.
Remember this before you point fingers..
And when you tell yourself lies.
Your husband is lucky. ;)
Or smart.
I can't tell if you're making some kind of allusion to him picking somebody willing to forgive him so he could cheat. I'm as sure as anybody ever is that he hasn't and won't, which probably affects my responses.
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 07:55 PM
If you steal, you are forever a thief.
If you cheat, you are forever a cheater.
We are all guilty of something.
Remember this before you point fingers..
And when you tell yourself lies.
Right, except here we are discussing cheaters. The sermon isn't necessary, nor are all guilts equal.
I can't tell if you're making some kind of allusion to him picking somebody willing to forgive him so he could cheat. I'm as sure as anybody ever is that he hasn't and won't, which probably affects my responses.
Not exactly. Other women would be less dedicated to keeping the family intact. That is admirable. (Not that I would at all blame a woman who split and told the dude to go fuck himself - sometimes sanity demands it.)
EffEmDoubleyou
08-16-2008, 07:58 PM
So if you were in a committed relationship with someone for lets say 10 years, and she had sex with another man, you'd give her a second chance?
I think that's a completely separate issue from whether or not a cheater is always a cheater. Even if I thought it was a one time thing, I'd still have to find a way to get over it before I could give her another chance. Just because I intellectually recognize that it could have been a one time thing doesn't mean that I can absorb that point emotionally.
It's kind of unnerving that some people in this thread feel so strongly that it's impossible for people to make a one time mistake. We accept that will power is not absolute in other areas like diet and addiction, and we rarely question someone's commitment in those areas if they slip. Why is it different with sex? Is it because the jealousy and hurt cut so deep that we try to convince ourselves that human nature can and should live up to our ideals?
I'm certainly not trying to be an apologist for cheaters. I've never cheated and I suspect I never will. I'm merely saying that I think people can make mistakes that are out of character. This thread seems to be arguing that years of demonstrated commitment are trumped by a moment of indiscretion, and that the moment is more indicative of true character than the years. That doesn't make sense to me.
I'm with Ivy. I shouldn't have to basically throw the life I've built away because of an idiotic act on my husband's part.
I've lived with this man for 16 years and his life has been an object lesson in how to love a woman. He's the father of my children and I love him.
If I believed my marriage to be unsalvagable, I imagine I would end it, but I don't think one act would necessarily make my marriage unsalvagable.
Spartacuss
08-16-2008, 08:03 PM
I think where the disagreement arises is that many do not think cheating is something from a lack of discretion, but is a rather willful act. It's not a slip and fall. Also, it is not entirely clear what is out of character. Some would say actions that you take willfully are in character and those that you do not are out of character. So the cheater's action puts you on notice that you may have erred in judging the character of the person.
I also do not see why splitting is YOU throwing your life away. YOU didn't do that. The person you built a life with for 16 years did. Staying could be just as miserable as giving second chances.
I think that's a completely separate issue from whether or not a cheater is always a cheater. Even if I thought it was a one time thing, I'd still have to find a way to get over it before I could give her another chance. Just because I intellectually recognize that it could have been a one time thing doesn't mean that I can absorb that point emotionally.
It's kind of unnerving that some people in this thread feel so strongly that it's impossible for people to make a one time mistake. We accept that will power is not absolute in other areas like diet and addiction, and we rarely question someone's commitment in those areas if they slip. Why is it different with sex? Is it because the jealousy and hurt cut so deep that we try to convince ourselves that human nature can and should live up to our ideals?
I'm certainly not trying to be an apologist for cheaters. I've never cheated and I suspect I never will. I'm merely saying that I think people can make mistakes that are out of character. This thread seems to be arguing that years of demonstrated commitment are trumped by a moment of indiscretion, and that the moment is more indicative of true character than the years. That doesn't make sense to me.
I'm with Ivy. I shouldn't have to basically throw the life I've built away because of an idiotic act on my husband's part.
I've lived with this man for 16 years and his life has been an object lesson in how to love a woman. He's the father of my children and I love him.
If I believed my marriage to be unsalvagable, I imagine I would end it, but I don't think one act would necessarily make my marriage unsalvagable.
I agree with you both, 100%. On the scales, 15 years and 2 kids and an outrageous amount of fun and love and affection would FAR outweigh a single stupid act. I would be grateful if he came to the same conclusion if the tables were turned. I can't currently conceive of a reason that either of us would cheat, but pride goeth before a fall, as they say.
If it became a pattern, that equation would likely change.
I think where the disagreement arises is that many do not think cheating is something from a lack of discretion, but is a rather willful act. It's not a slip and fall. Also, it is not entirely clear what is out of character. Some would say actions that you take willfully are in character and those that you do not are out of character. So the cheater's action puts you on notice that you may have erred in judging the character of the person.
I don't think it's a slip-and-fall, either. It's a purposeful fuck-up I would be extremely angry and hurt over. I just don't think it would be an instant deal-breaker that would send me down to file for divorce without at least trying to get past it.
I also do not see why splitting is YOU throwing your life away. YOU didn't do that. The person you built a life with for 16 years did. Staying could be just as miserable as giving second chances.
It could be, yes. And if it turned out to be, I would leave THEN, with the knowledge that I did everything in my power to salvage the marriage.
01011010
08-16-2008, 09:35 PM
If you steal, you are forever a thief.
If you cheat, you are forever a cheater.
We are all guilty of something.
Remember this before you point fingers..
And when you tell yourself lies.
Agreed
I do think it's harder for people that engage in that type of behavior to change though. Not saying they aren't capable, but seems rare.
Spartacuss I'm with you. Some people are tolerant. I'm somewhat arrogant so if my partner were to sleep with someone else I'd never be able to really move past the fact that they thought the sugar would be sweeter elsewhere. I mean lets think of reasons men cheat. Loneliness? Why are they lonely? Constant raging hard ons and need somewhere to put it? :rolleyes:
FMwarner I'm sorry I strayed off topic but it happens in discussions sometimes and I was interested in hearing your opinion on the 10 year thing.
If I slept with another man in a moment of weakness (i just cannot envision such a thing but for the sake of being fair I'll play along) I can tell you that it would take some planning. I can't think of a scenario where I would be in the same place as another man and discuss hooking up for sex, but lets just say somehow we've met and planned to meet somewhere discreet (ha). We remove each other's clothing while groping one another, and "hey what about Limey, my husband of 10 years?" doesn't cross my mind? Please! IT WOULD BE ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT! I would be very aware of what I was doing just as he would be if the roles were reversed. How the hell could there even be any confusion? This type of behavior is not acceptable with monogamous couples. This idea of forgiving isn't registering with me. If you're so unhappy with your spouse that you are considering sleeping with someone else it's time to see a therapist BEFORE you fuck up, not after.
NoahFence
08-18-2008, 04:54 PM
Spartacuss I'm with you. Some people are tolerant. I'm somewhat arrogant so if my partner were to sleep with someone else I'd never be able to really move past the fact that they thought the sugar would be sweeter elsewhere.
Fact? No. You've added the implication that they think the other is better than you. This does not follow. If you cannot move past the fact that they thought sugar, elsewhere, would be sweet at all, this is fine.
I mean lets think of reasons men cheat. Loneliness? Why are they lonely? Constant raging hard ons and need somewhere to put it? :rolleyes:
You discount biological compulsion very easily. Women tend to short-circuit our brains. If I were chemically blasted, stressed out, and far, far away from any warning two-by-four-to-the-skull, the additional short-circuiting can cause all kinds of bad judgement and shoulder-angel-swatting.
My mistake in this case, in my eyes, would be in deciding to enter such a state, in such a place, with such risks. I know enough chemistry and biology to bloody well know better.
If I slept with another man in a moment of weakness (i just cannot envision such a thing but for the sake of being fair I'll play along) I can tell you that it would take some planning. I can't think of a scenario where I would be in the same place as another man and discuss hooking up for sex, but lets just say somehow we've met and planned to meet somewhere discreet (ha). We remove each other's clothing while groping one another, and "hey what about Limey, my husband of 10 years?" doesn't cross my mind? Please! IT WOULD BE ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT! I would be very aware of what I was doing just as he would be if the roles were reversed. How the hell could there even be any confusion? This type of behavior is not acceptable with monogamous couples. This idea of forgiving isn't registering with me. If you're so unhappy with your spouse that you are considering sleeping with someone else it's time to see a therapist BEFORE you fuck up, not after.
You're describing Murder 1 here, though...I can guarantee I won't ever do that. Premeditation being involved, yeah...I'd think it is indeed a sign that you, for whatever reason, want to GTFO. Because this is not done in a moment of weakness, but in a moment of strength, in full control of your faculties and your judgement unimpared (by external sources anyway). At the very least, one can say with certainty that at some point during the process, your blood was perfectly room temperature.
What I am describing is more akin to manslaughter, or murder 2 I guess. The moment of weakness comes when the opportunity knocks while you're already fealing cheated. Not "cheated ON" as such, sure, but some sort of perceived slight can go a long way into becoming "I deserve this". Or possibly "They deserve this." Under chemical influences particularly, you can justify it at the time, then the next morning reach new understanding of Talking Heads lyrics:
"And you may say to yourself, My God! what have I done!?"
Final comment to those thinking "Sweeet, Noah gets a freebie": uhh no. It would cost waaaaaay more than I want to pay. Just because I still have a wife when it's paid off doesn't mean it will be even slightly pleasant.
"Once a cheater always a cheater" - Not necessarily but as for myself, cheat on me once and it's about certain that I'll never fully trust you again.
Final comment to those thinking "Sweeet, Noah gets a freebie": uhh no. It would cost waaaaaay more than I want to pay. Just because I still have a wife when it's paid off doesn't mean it will be even slightly pleasant.
Oh shit, I didn't think you'd read this thread! Quick, I need to change everything I said to "I would cut his fucking balls off and go to Mexico."
:hug:
InaF3157
08-18-2008, 05:28 PM
<stuff>
So what happens if Ivy has a weak moment and beds Mr. Hot as Hell? Same thing?
Xander
08-18-2008, 06:46 PM
SO if one person travels from one relationship to another with no real reason to walk in or out of them they are known as flighty, attractive perhaps? However if they do not state their intentions and make some vocal gesture towards one move or another they are labelled as bad, deal breakers. The fact that both break deals, one just announces it (usually to the world) is disregarded?
Hmmm in that case then can I be a warlock instead? They don't seem to attract the same kind of attention.
NoahFence
08-18-2008, 07:00 PM
So what happens if Ivy has a weak moment and beds Mr. Hot as Hell? Same thing?
Yeah pretty much. There's way more to it than "they fucked". That alone will get only "Insufficient Data". Must have context to form a reaction.
NoahFence
08-18-2008, 07:04 PM
Oh shit, I didn't think you'd read this thread! Quick, I need to change everything I said to "I would cut his fucking balls off and go to Mexico."
:hug:
Ironically that's my crocodile reaction to your infidelity as well. Verbatim. "Cut his fucking balls off and go to Mexico".
:wubbie:
J/k btw, was too funny to not write...I'd be pretty ill with the dude, but he wouldn't be the target of my ire. Never really understood that, honestly.
Xander
08-18-2008, 07:08 PM
This thread reminds me of a saying... well part of one... something about 'Never marry a beautiful woman'...
Also what seems to being ruled out is that anyone may actually get kind of caught. Not everyone leaves their parental home having been hunted down for anything more than a dig in the ribs. The situation entailed in this thread is a little more complex than many of those so quick to draw a line would think, especially when you recall that what is involved is a highly complex and erratic piece of hardware with a faulty and out of date controller... oh yeah... you guys call them people.
MacGuffin
08-18-2008, 07:11 PM
So if you were in a committed relationship with someone for lets say 10 years, and she had sex with another man, you'd give her a second chance? I've had this discussion with my husband (as well as countless other people in the past) and he told me if I ever did anything like that, we'd be so over. That there would be no going back and that he would never be able to get the image of another man banging his wife out of his mind and I believe him as he rarely says things to get a reaction. In fact I think it would be easier for me to forgive him if he cheated, than him to forgive me. That's not saying I would forgive him, I actually don't know how I would react which is scary because that means I could go completely crazy and I hope that's enough for him not to ever do something so stupid.
I've heard others say something similar to this bolded part and it has always bothered me. It hints at... insecurity perhaps? That one's love and ability to forgive only goes so far. Seems awfully limiting.
You discount biological compulsion very easily. Women tend to short-circuit our brains. If I were chemically blasted, stressed out, and far, far away from any warning two-by-four-to-the-skull, the additional short-circuiting can cause all kinds of bad judgement and shoulder-angel-swatting.
That's a sorry ass excuse unless you're a idiot.
My husband travels a lot and I'm sure has had opportunities to cheat, just as I have, but we've had this discussion in the past and and have agreed that if we're ever so unhappy that we are considering going outside of our marriage for companionship, that we would let the other know prior to doing so giving ourselves the chance to better things before stepping over that line.
A lot of men turn to other women because they aren't getting laid at home or their wives are no longer appealing to them. I am doing my best at this end to avoid those things from happening in our relationship. Other than that, there's nothing I can do except trust in the man I married 10 years ago. As long as your spouse isn't a sex addict, communicating with one another is a great way to avoid the worry of cheating. That and most men love blow jobs and sadly for them, don't receive as many as they'd like. I know at least three friends of mine that refuse to go there even though their husbands would love it.
I've heard others say something similar to this bolded part and it has always bothered me. It hints at... insecurity perhaps? That one's love and ability to forgive only goes so far. Seems awfully limiting.No, I'd be used goods in his mind.
MacGuffin
08-18-2008, 07:19 PM
No, I'd be used goods in his mind.
So you cease to be a person and become an object?
Or were you always an object?
spin it however you want. in our relationship, cheating isn't acceptable.
The implication being that it is fine and dandy in mine.
MacGuffin
08-18-2008, 07:24 PM
spin it however you want. in our relationship, cheating isn't acceptable.
I never said it was, or should be.
I just don't get that people can't get past it. The love, the relationship, the life you've built must go away? Absolutely no redemption? No forgiveness?
Xander
08-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Do I get a rifle or is this a melee only kind of battle?
I'd guess that each couple has their own lines drawn, whatever that may be. With my parents apparently it was one of them working too hard.... well personally I'd say it was a pair of J's making a royal mess of things but ho hum..
Anyhow, eye gouging... continue....
I don't make it a habit in telling others how to live their lives. You gotta do what works for you. If you're a forgiving person, that's commendable, I however can be a nasty piece of work when when wronged so fucking up would really suck for my husband and if I slept with another man and he found out, I'd be terrified. I just can't imagine how he'd react.
Xander
08-18-2008, 07:39 PM
I don't make it a habit in telling others how to live their lives. You gotta do what works for you. If you're a forgiving person, that's commendable, I however can be a nasty piece of work when when wronged so fucking up would really suck for my husband and if I slept with another man and he found out, I'd be terrified. I just can't imagine how he'd react. We are both pretty J so stupid fuck ups just don't slide off our backs.
It doesn't exactly slide with Ps either...
The whole lack of drawing lines doesn't preclude the existance of lines... it usually just means a lack of warning signs and such...
Having gone through the whole search for forgiveness, both my own and my SOs, all I ended up with was that such a low has added a whole lot of certainty to my resolve not to drop so far in the future. I do still see it as resolve though and not a line... it's all based on willpower and that's never a certainty... well least not in this Ps book.
IMO, it's an uncertainty simply because it's in the future. I agree with you that this might be a J/P thing. I certainly don't think I or my partner will ever go outside the marriage, and we both do all we can to make certain we're not tempted. But I recognize that nobody ever really thinks it will happen to them, and I simply haven't made a contingency plan at this point about what I would do if it did (e.g. "if my husband cheated, I would leave him immediately" --I would have to wait and see what seemed right at the time).
Xander
08-18-2008, 07:50 PM
IMO, it's an uncertainty simply because it's in the future. I agree with you that this might be a J/P thing. I certainly don't think I or my partner will ever go outside the marriage, and we both do all we can to make certain we're not tempted. But I recognize that nobody ever really thinks it will happen to them, and I simply haven't made a contingency plan at this point about what I would do if it did (e.g. "if my husband cheated, I would leave him immediately" --I would have to wait and see what seemed right at the time).
Assuming you're including my responses in your thinking (arrogance I know but I'll risk it), it's not so much a J/P thing of there being a line drawn and consequences over that being crossed, it's more the stated consequence and also IME the discussion in the first place. The only people I've seen having the whole "What if either of us was unfaithful" conversation have been Js. I guess it's something about being more comfortable with the boundaries clearly marked. Not expecting either to actually cross one of those boundaries but just having it marked and worked out.
My sister, also an ENFJ, has often remarked upon what she'd do even though she's never had it happen to her once (some may say cause and effect but I remain dubious).
Assuming you're including my responses in your thinking (arrogance I know but I'll risk it), it's not so much a J/P thing of there being a line drawn and consequences over that being crossed, it's more the stated consequence and also IME the discussion in the first place. The only people I've seen having the whole "What if either of us was unfaithful" conversation have been Js. I guess it's something about being more comfortable with the boundaries clearly marked. Not expecting either to actually cross one of those boundaries but just having it marked and worked out.
My sister, also an ENFJ, has often remarked upon what she'd do even though she's never had it happen to her once (some may say cause and effect but I remain dubious).
Yes, I was responding to you, and I agree with all of that. I think it has come up, but I'm relatively sure we left it at "I don't know. I would be angry/hurt/devastated but I don't know what I would do." It just seems moot--it's unlikely IMO but if it happens, it'll suck, and we'll do whatever we do. There's no way to predict how it will feel if it happens, so why try to feel it in advance to have the information to make those decisions? Why borrow trouble?
Twice and I'm pretty sure there would be a divorce or a major renegotiation of the terms of our marriage.
Once, though, like Ivy, I couldn't say for sure. It would depend on a lot of things and I don't think you can know for sure how you will react or what decisions you will make.
George Burns and Gracie Allen got through a one time screw up. She was even able to joke about it years later.
nottaprettygal
08-18-2008, 07:57 PM
If you're a forgiving person, that's commendable
Is that why you called John Edward's wife a "bloody idiot"?
Xander
08-18-2008, 08:01 PM
Yes, I was responding to you, and I agree with all of that. I think it has come up, but I'm relatively sure we left it at "I don't know. I would be angry/hurt/devastated but I don't know what I would do." It just seems moot--it's unlikely IMO but if it happens, it'll suck, and we'll do whatever we do. There's no way to predict how it will feel if it happens, so why try to feel it in advance to have the information to make those decisions? Why borrow trouble?
That was my thinking. However with a background insluding an ISFJ mother who could undermine the entire world's gold reserves, I was prepared to guard against that eventuality.... just not the one which landed me in shtuck.
InaF3157
08-18-2008, 08:03 PM
Is that why you called John Edward's wife a "bloody idiot"?
I don't know about Mrs. Edwards - the cancer and other factors didn't help, but Silda Spitzer certainly fits the bill.
Is that why you called John Edward's wife a "bloody idiot"?Let me ask you this. Do you think you'd enjoy being made to look like a fool? How about if you made a happy life with your husband, had children together, thought you were happy, that everything was fine and he decided that wasn't enough and hooked up with another woman? I'll admit my words directed towards Elizabeth Edwards were harsh and given that I am not walking in her shoes I had no right to call her an idiot (not that she should care what I think), however I'd be furious and so hurt if I were her. I'd also say that standing by him is commendable because I'd want to kill him, that no good cheating, thieving motherfucker.
I had a friend who only dated married men. She fell hard for one and he eventually left his wife for her and they married and had a couple of kids. She called me one day in tears because she caught him with another women (they later divorced). I'm not saying that if you're dating a guy and catch him with another woman, that's acceptable, but it's much worse if you've built a life with someone, only to have it torn to bits because they couldn't stay faithful.
Oberon
08-18-2008, 09:00 PM
I think infidelity can spring from immaturity. If a person has anything on the ball at all, their immaturity will eventually go away. So, some cheaters can grow out of it.
disregard
08-18-2008, 09:03 PM
There are probably a multitude of men that wouldn't cheat, but I grew up with a father that cheated a lot, and I've noticed that I expect anyone I'll ever be with to cheat (almost as if it were a given), and that it's just a fact of life to be dealt with, that there are more important things than a faithful husband. =\
Meh.
Night
08-18-2008, 09:08 PM
Although you probably expect this sentiment, I feel badly for you disregard.
We don't have to be the same people as our parents.
Although you probably expect this sentiment, I feel badly for you disregard.
We don't have to be the same people as our parents.True, but easier said than done once the damage is done. Therapy can help.
Uberfuhrer
08-18-2008, 09:12 PM
The problem with someone cheating in a relationship is that you discover that the person's displays of affection have all been meaningless. A cheater would waste the other person's life.
MacGuffin
08-18-2008, 09:13 PM
The problem with someone cheating in a relationship is that you discover that the person's displays of affection have all been meaningless.
Huh?
Uberfuhrer
08-18-2008, 09:14 PM
Huh?
That is when you find out that a mate has been cheating.
disregard
08-18-2008, 09:15 PM
I don't think it means the affection was meaningless.. but it certainly hurts like hell.
The problem with someone cheating in a relationship is that you discover that the person's displays of affection have all been meaningless. A cheater would waste the other person's life.not bad. it also exhibits predatory behavior on the part of the home wrecker.
InaF3157
08-18-2008, 09:17 PM
The problem with someone cheating in a relationship is that you discover that the person's displays of affection have all been meaningless. A cheater would waste the other person's life.
It sounds totally disorienting - as if the non-cheater had been living in a fictional universe. Now imagine if that person had made serious sacrifices for the sake of that relationship (e.g. giving up a rewarding career to help the other's political ambitions). (Disorientation * anger)^485660945 ==> homicide.
MacGuffin
08-18-2008, 09:19 PM
That is when you find out that a mate has been cheating.
How one feels in the moment and what is the truth was are not always the same thing.
Uberfuhrer
08-18-2008, 09:20 PM
I don't think it means the affection was meaningless.. but it certainly hurts like hell.
If the affection wasn't meaningless, then there would be no reason to cheat, now would there?
disregard
08-18-2008, 09:21 PM
If the affection wasn't meaningless, then there would be no reason to cheat, now would there?
I don't know. I can't really get into the mind of a cheater. I'll never be one or understand them.
Maybe you're right.
I think that once a cheater always a cheater if you are in the same relationship.
So, if person X cheats on person Y, then I think person X will always have the potential to cheat on person Y, really.
However, every relationship is a different story, so I believe that somebody that has cheated before could very well be completely faithful in a new one. Not everyone, though. Some individuals with deeply rooted insecurities will never find one partner to be enough for them, so will likely always revert to cheating behavior after the 2-months-adrenaline-buzz of the new lover has faded.
Personally, I wouldn't even forgive myself. Meaning that if I ever were to cheat for whatever reason - the only possibility I can consider is a moment of deep substance intoxication - I'd end the relationship immediately thereafter. Even if the girl/woman were to think that we shouldn't throw our story/marriage away: I'd definitely feel too guilty.
I've been cheated on before; the problem wasn't forgiving, I wasn't even angry: everybody can do what he-she pleases with hir own body. I simply found it useless and inefficient to keep on a relationship if the other party wanted to have sex with other people: so I dropped every contact immediately without involving dramas, explanations, attempts at patching the situation, pride, etc etc - and that's what if I were to encounter a similar situation in the future. The presence of a family (in the case of my eventual wife cheating) would entail me flying to another country in order to avoid dealing with divorce papers and all the related stuff; if it was me cheating and I had a familiy, that'd be a very bad situation really.
MacGuffin
08-18-2008, 09:22 PM
If the affection wasn't meaningless, then there would be no reason to cheat, now would there?
Oh, now I see. You just don't know what you are talking about, yet again.
nottaprettygal
08-18-2008, 09:23 PM
Let me ask you this. Do you think you'd enjoy being made to look like a fool?
Of course not. But I've looked like a fool before, and I will probably look like one again. I wouldn't be comfortable saying beforehand that one mistake would be the end of my marriage. I would hope that I could swallow my pride, ignore the comments of "you should get rid of him," and at least attempt to get past it as a couple.
I also don't think that very many men and women are completely blindsided by a cheating spouse. They may be surprised that their spouse would take it to that level, but I'm sure most people wouldn't think that they were living some sort of fantasy life.
disregard
08-18-2008, 09:33 PM
We don't have to be the same people as our parents.
I agree. I find that I waste my time with losers that treat me like a part of their harem, and I am learning to be more respectful of myself in regard to demanding more from the people I date. I'm only 20. Give me five years and I'll be a woman on top of my game. :D
runvardh
08-18-2008, 09:35 PM
Eh, to be serious my last reaction to being cheated on was to forgive her, but then she'd pour her attentions into his IMs even though I was there curled up with my head in her lap. That's why it took me 4 days to break up with her instead of that instant. Anyway, I expect better, but if it happens again I'll have to take the wait and see approach.
Night
08-18-2008, 09:38 PM
I'm only 20. Give me five years and I'll be a woman on top of my game. :D
You're very smart.
I bet you'll be on top of your game in 2. ;)
Uberfuhrer
08-18-2008, 09:41 PM
How would you guys get even with a person who cheated on you?
If I decided to stay I would not "get even." If I felt I had to "get even" then I would either need to process it more or leave.
runvardh
08-18-2008, 09:42 PM
How would you guys get even with a person who cheated on you?
Eh, I don't bother getting even, not worth my time.
Edit: post changed, read Uber's comment wrong
nottaprettygal
08-18-2008, 09:43 PM
How would you guys get even with a person who cheated on you?
Err. If that's the mentality, then you're screwed.
But certainly losing at least 1 testicle is in order.
disregard
08-18-2008, 09:46 PM
How would you guys get even with a person who cheated on you?
I don't believe in getting even. It fuels a negative energy that I try to rid myself of when I detect it stirring up within me. Leaving the person, treating them with kindness in spite of their wrongdoing, and finding something better for yourself would be an ideal form of "revenge" to me.
runvardh
08-18-2008, 09:47 PM
I don't believe in getting even. It fuels a negative energy that I try to rid myself of when I detect it stirring up within me. Leaving the person, treating them with kindness in spite of their wrongdoing, and finding something better for yourself would be an ideal form of "revenge" to me.
Exactly, the perfect revenge is disallowing that person to have power over your life.
Get even? Leaving them would be enough, given my supreme awesomeness the score would be -infinty for them.
InaF3157
08-18-2008, 09:52 PM
Get even? Leaving them would be enough, given my supreme awesomeness the score would be -infinty for them.
:laugh:
Arilee
08-18-2008, 10:04 PM
In response to the OP - I don't believe that once a cheater always a cheater.
I've been reading this thread for a while, but wasn't specifically planning on posting, but this comment caught my eye...
If the affection wasn't meaningless, then there would be no reason to cheat, now would there?
I cheated on an ex many years ago - but that did not mean that the affection I felt for him was meaningless. In fact my feelings for him did not change I still cared about him a great deal. What I did learn from my actions was that I was not as "in love" with this person as I had thought I was. I would never have intentionally hurt him, and nor would I if I were to see him today.
I have been with my current SO for 10 years now :wubbie:, and although I have had other "offers" in that time, I would not cheat on him. This is the man I want to marry and spend the rest of my life with - I cannot imagine a situation arising where I would cheat on him.
InaF3157
08-18-2008, 10:15 PM
I'm curious to know how many former cheaters voted true.
I don't make it a habit in telling others how to live their lives. You gotta do what works for you. If you're a forgiving person, that's commendable, I however can be a nasty piece of work when when wronged so fucking up would really suck for my husband and if I slept with another man and he found out, I'd be terrified. I just can't imagine how he'd react.
Thinking about this and talking to Don, I realized that I don't believe if I cheated on him once that he would divorce me. It would crush and devastate him and whether or not he could ever forgive me there's no telling, but he probably wouldn't divorce me unless it was a habitual behavior and even then, he might just move out and not make the separation legal.
The thought of me cheating on him is actually more terrifying to me than the thought of him cheating on me. I don't know how I'd live with myself.
IEE623
08-18-2008, 10:48 PM
there's nothing called "absolute"
heart
08-18-2008, 11:06 PM
Let me ask you this. Do you think you'd enjoy being made to look like a fool?
I think this would be the least issue about the whole thing. The worst would be the loss of trust and then the fear that it meant that he'd fallen out of love with me and there was no way to repair that.
When we're not close, my whole world is off kilter and I couldn't feel close to him if he broke my trust like that and this would be the heartbreaker in the situation, not if the world felt I was foolish. The rest of the world does not hold me up, the rest of the world does not know my life or walk in my shoes so their opinion should properly be moot.
Hey, to be made a fool of is to be in the game of life. Didn't you hear the song? Everybody plays the fool. If you've not been made a fool of, then you've not been risking enough to really get the meat and substance out of life. ;)
How about if you made a happy life with your husband, had children together, thought you were happy, that everything was fine and he decided that wasn't enough and hooked up with another woman?
I'd want to know why first off before I made any snap decisions. I'd be mad and hurt but I'd need to understand why he'd done it and try to not make some emotional decision I might really regret in the long term.
I'll admit my words directed towards Elizabeth Edwards were harsh and given that I am not walking in her shoes I had no right to call her an idiot (not that she should care what I think), however I'd be furious and so hurt if I were her. I'd also say that standing by him is commendable because I'd want to kill him, that no good cheating, thieving motherfucker.
If it were me, I couldn't see my husband simply as a "cheating, thieving MF'er" because he's more than a lover, he's my best and longest friendship. And we don't have children, I cannot imagine how the bonds are magnified when there's mutual children involved.
If my husband cheated, I'd assume the problem was something in our dynamics together not that he'd suddenly turned into this horrible person who just didn't give a damn about me and my feelings anymore. However earlier in our marriage, I'd have felt a lot different. I was totally "Oh if that happens it's the worst ever and I'm outta here!"
But then life threw a lot of garbage our way (illness, deaths, job loss, long term stress, etc.) and we've hung together through a lot of stress and he's been there for me when the whole world turned its back on me and I was helpless. Things like that change the perspective on what's most important.
As for Elizabeth Edwards, the woman is fighting for her life. I'd think that would be a serious drain on resources to cope with other issues in her life. For anyone who never dealt with feeling fatigued and sick on regular business you just have no idea what that is like and to still have to cope with regular life coming at you. I'm really distressed to see someone in that position being criticized for how they handle something like this. She may very well be hurt and angry but may not have the energy available to even feel those emotions, much less act on them. Getting a daily shower and getting her daily meals might be all she can handle at times ( I don't know, just saying illness can really change things) She might be very grateful just to be able to do that and this may all actually seem like small potatoes at the moment.
I think this would be the least issue about the whole thing. The worst would be the loss of trust and then the fear that it meant that he'd fallen out of love with me and there was no way to repair that.
I'd want to know why first off before I made any snap decisions. I'd be mad and hurt but I'd need to understand why he'd done it and try to not make some emotional decision I might really regret in the long term.
If it were me, I couldn't see my husband simply as a "cheating, thieving MF'er" because he's more than a lover, he's my best and longest friendship. And we don't have children, I cannot imagine how the bonds are magnified when there's mutual children involved.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. We've been best friends and lovers for fifteen years. I don't know how I would react but I don't think I could turn that off in an instant. My best guess is that after some time alone to get through the initial shock, I would want to know why, and how he could assure me that it would never happen again. If he couldn't give me those two things then I don't know that I could go forward, but if he were contrite and could answer those questions I think we would have a chance.
Xander
08-18-2008, 11:15 PM
How popular a thought is it then that you can only feel for one person at once? You can repeat that thought/ emotion constantly and consistantly for comparison so you know that "this is the one" and ergo it's not fine to cheat versus the whole "I'm only playing around" which seems to have an acceptible level of cheating inbuilt.
[Note : I'm just asking, the question isn't loaded.]
heart
08-18-2008, 11:23 PM
How popular a thought is it then that you can only feel for one person at once? You can repeat that thought/ emotion constantly and consistantly for comparison so you know that "this is the one" and ergo it's not fine to cheat versus the whole "I'm only playing around" which seems to have an acceptible level of cheating inbuilt.
[Note : I'm just asking, the question isn't loaded.]
I think it would be really hard for the average person to love more than one person at a time adequately. It would just take too much of their resources and so therefore loving more than one person becomes problematic because those two people are likely to feel neglected and the one trying to love two would become exhausted, nervous wreck. jmo.
Lateralus
08-18-2008, 11:27 PM
I never said it was, or should be.
I just don't get that people can't get past it. The love, the relationship, the life you've built must go away? Absolutely no redemption? No forgiveness?
I think it's easier to make that sort of statement (ending the relationship) than to practice it. I used to be in that camp, but after a lot of thought, I don't think I could just give up on someone I really loved. There would be a trust issue to resolve, but that's not insurmountable.
Xander
08-18-2008, 11:29 PM
I think it would be really hard for the average person to love more than one person at a time adequately. It would just take too much of their resources and so therefore loving more than one person becomes problematic because those two people are likely to feel neglected and the one trying to love two would become exhausted, nervous wreck. jmo.
Okay this wasn't planned ahead but it'll look like it cause that leads my brain directly head on with the question of "how do you tell love from like from hightened interest?".... considering that until recently I was uncomfortable with the question "how do you feel" because the parameters were ill defined, what you're talking about is making major life decisions based upon whether something hits a mark or not and yet the mark is smudged all over the place and no one can recall what the units are on the scale!!
Okay to cut a meandering cat's cradle of thinking, that methodology ties me in knots!
Hey, to be made a fool of is to be in the game of life. Didn't you hear the song? Everybody plays the fool. If you've not been made a fool of, then you've not been risking enough to really get the meat and substance out of life. ;)I get plenty of meat, thanks. ;)
If it were me, I couldn't see my husband simply as a "cheating, thieving MF'er" because he's more than a lover, he's my best and longest friendship. And we don't have children, I cannot imagine how the bonds are magnified when there's mutual children involved.Well I was referring to John Edwards, not all men in general.
If my husband cheated, I'd assume the problem was something in our dynamics together not that he'd suddenly turned into this horrible person who just didn't give a damn about me and my feelings anymore. However earlier in our marriage, I'd have felt a lot different. I was totally "Oh if that happens it's the worst ever and I'm outta here!" I said in an earlier post that I'm not sure what I'd do but it wouldn't be nice. I'd be more likely (not much though) to forgive him, than he would me.
But then life threw a lot of garbage our way (illness, deaths, job loss, long term stress, etc.) and we've hung together through a lot of stress and he's been there for me when the whole world turned its back on me and I was helpless. Things like that change the perspective on what's most important.We've been through a lot too and have always been brutally honest with one another which is why I wouldn't expect him to come to me first and tell me if things weren't alright for him.
As for Elizabeth Edwards, the woman is fighting for her life. I'd think that would be a serious drain on resources to cope with other issues in her life. For anyone who never dealt with feeling fatigued and sick on regular business you just have no idea what that is like and to still have to cope with regular life coming at you. I'm really distressed to see someone in that position being criticized for how they handle something like this. She may very well be hurt and angry but may not have the energy available to even feel those emotions, much less act on them. Getting a daily shower and getting her daily meals might be all she can handle at times ( I don't know, just saying illness can really change things) She might be very grateful just to be able to do that and this may all actually seem like small potatoes at the moment.She reportedly (and understandably) devastated and doing this to keep her family together. She's worried about how this may effect her children.
heart
08-18-2008, 11:39 PM
Well I was referring to John Edwards, not all men in general.
Do any of us even have any idea what kind of marriage they've had or all they've been through? I have no idea if he's merely a cheating, theiving Mf'er or if he just broke down at a weak time. I don't much care either way however, he's nobody to me.
She reportedly (and understandably) devastated and doing this to keep her family together. She's worried about how this may effect her children.
At the very least she probably feels hounded to come up with a nice, neat, for-general-audiences, public statement and shut all the critisicism up. Sounds like her PR person did a great job. :nice: ;)
Xander
08-18-2008, 11:41 PM
I'd be more likely (not much though) to forgive him, than he would me.
The INTJ I know keeps threatening his missus with trading her in for a more up to date and fashionable model :D
Mind you they've had the whole split discussion, he's already said she won't get a bean :rofl1:
'Comfortably clinical' should be on a sign around every INTJ's neck :D
Spartacuss
08-18-2008, 11:46 PM
I also don't think that very many men and women are completely blindsided by a cheating spouse. They may be surprised that their spouse would take it to that level, but I'm sure most people wouldn't think that they were living some sort of fantasy life.
See, to me, living a sort of fantasy life is assuming the spouse means well and this was a mistake. That is the fantasy - the underlying "but s/he still loves me" belief in the basic goodness of another human being, though 10 years ago I might have agreed with it, too. But for all you know, the cheater may be driven by deeper, psychologically sadistic reasons, no matter how wonderfully contrite they seem after. People do cheat to establish control, among other reasons, not just because they were so overwhelmed with horniness. This is why I deem it an act of aggression.
heart
08-18-2008, 11:47 PM
I said in an earlier post that I'm not sure what I'd do but it wouldn't be nice. I'd be more likely (not much though) to forgive him, than he would me.
I just cannot imagine getting hateful. It would be either figure out what the issues are and work on them or leave. But I don't think I could ever actually hate him enough to hurt him. I understood this mindset years ago but not now. The sexual cheating is part of the initimate lover package and yes, that'd be really, seriously damaged but the deep friendship would remain. I just cannot see how it couldn't.
Edit: But then too it depends on the person. I know my husband, though he is far from perfect I know he doesn't want to hurt me, he wants to protect my feelings and he values our bond and our trust. His actions over the long term have proved this out. If he did something like this, then something went very, very wrong in his world. I'd want to know what part I played in that.
And cheating is just one way of being let down or betrayed.
....
Oh, I don't know what I'd initially do. It could involve destroying objects of high sentimental value to him. I wouldn't put it past me if I was angry enough. Eventually, though, I'd probably calm down and try to work through it. If I couldn't get past it within a few years with the help of therapy, I'd probably end it. It would be kinder than my torturing both of us for decades.
I'm curious why most might be willing to let one incident slide and some are less tolerant. Is this a J vs P thing? Could it be a confidence issue?
heart
08-19-2008, 12:12 AM
I'm curious why most might be willing to let one incident slide and some are less tolerant. Is this a J vs P thing? Could it be a confidence issue?
During the first ten years of marriage I had your mindset on this issue, but life has changed many of my views.
I agree with Ivy, no one said anything about letting it "slide" just that it's not automatic burn all the clothes and change the locks either.
Husband is very J but he's never actually come out and said if I cheated I'm out, he is more like "Please, please don't cheat!"
There are other ways of betraying each other than cheating as well.
"Let it slide" is a bit of a mischaracterization. It makes it seem like I would say "Oh, you rascal!" and shake my head at him while the trombones play the Bennie Hill theme song.
"Let it slide" is a bit of a mischaracterization. It makes it seem like I would say "Oh, you rascal!" and shake my head at him while the trombones play the Bennie Hill theme song.:laugh: I can just imagine. :alttongue: Ivy you're so great, Noah is lucky. I'd beat Limey until his head fell off and rolled out the front door to the tune of Alanis M's "You Oughta Know".
Xander
08-19-2008, 12:19 AM
I'm curious why most might be willing to let one incident slide and some are less tolerant. Is this a J vs P thing? Could it be a confidence issue?
It all depends upon the context to my mind. Like any error or crime the reasoning is as important to me as the deed itself.
I can't promise there wouldn't be some beating involved. At least some slapping. But after I got that out of my system I can't say what I would do in the long-term.
Arilee
08-19-2008, 12:20 AM
I'm curious why most might be willing to let one incident slide and some are less tolerant. Is this a J vs P thing? Could it be a confidence issue?
When I was cheated on I chose to forgive. It was a one off and I guess I understood the situation he had found himself in. I couldn't really take the "moral high ground" as such because he knew that I had cheated on an Ex. I did feel hurt and betrayed, and it took a long time for me to put the situation behind me but i firmly believe that in my situation that was the right thing to do.
I didn't see it as a confidence issue for me, but I can see why that might be the case for some people.
It could be a P Vs J thing, but from the responses I've read so far I believe it depends on the stage of the relationship at the time the person cheats. The posters who've neem with their partners for a longer time seem more willing to try to work things out and resolve the issues in the relationship that may have contributed to the infedelity - whereas if it's not a long term relationship it seems easier to jump ship....
heart
08-19-2008, 12:25 AM
If husband read or posted here, I wonder how honest I'd be on this issue. ;) I'd probably say "hang him by the nads!"
If husband read or posted here, I wonder how honest I'd be on this issue. ;) I'd probably say "hang him by the nads!"
Oh shit, I didn't think you'd read this thread! Quick, I need to change everything I said to "I would cut his fucking balls off and go to Mexico."
:hug:
:devil:
I think my husband is pretty aware of my . . . capacity for . . . behaving irrationally, shall we say, under duress. I think he believes me capable of killing him in his sleep, etc.
Uberfuhrer
08-19-2008, 12:36 AM
If husband read or posted here, I wonder how honest I'd be on this issue. ;) I'd probably say "hang him by the nads!"
All I know is that I would never physically abuse a woman. Emotional abuse is more my style.
All I know is that I would never physically abuse a woman. :laugh:Emotional abuse is more my style.:rolleyes2:
heart
08-19-2008, 12:36 AM
I think for most people in long term relationships, no matter what declarations are made before hand, if cheating ends your relationship, it wasn't really the cheating that ended it. jmo.
I think most people will react at first with anger and hurt and then if there's anything there worth saving, they will want to try and work things out.
heart
08-19-2008, 12:39 AM
All I know is that I would never physically abuse a woman. Emotional abuse is more my style.
Well folks realize, I was just joking...I value my husbands nads too much to damage them.
I think my husband is pretty aware of my . . . capacity for . . . behaving irrationally, shall we say, under duress. I think he believes me capable of killing him in his sleep, etc.
My husband seems most afraid that if he did, I'd feel I had a get out of jail free card. :smile:
Nothing is ever just one thing. If you're cheating on your spouse then something is wrong indeed wrong. That is why I stress that couples need to communicate with one another. I mean I don't think there is anything I can't discuss with my husband. We are very upfront with one another. So much so I think most people would be surprised but for us it's healthy.
Uberfuhrer
08-19-2008, 12:42 AM
Well folks realize, I was just joking...I value my husbands nads too much to damage them.
Yes, you value them so much that you want to take them and keep them for yourself! :devil:
Can we not Edgeinate this thread please Uber?
haha! you could bronze them and hang them on your rear view mirror as a memento.
Haight
08-19-2008, 12:44 AM
But certainly losing at least 1 testicle is in order.:shock:
Nothing is ever just one thing. If you're cheating on your spouse then something is wrong indeed wrong. That is why I stress that couples need to communicate with one another. I mean I don't think there is anything I can't discuss with my husband. We are very upfront with one another. So much so I think most people would be surprised but for us it's healthy.
Yeah, that would be the ideal, to address problems before they get to that point, but if, for some reason things didn't happen that way, and the problems came into the open because of the cheating, it doesn't mean that they can no longer be addressed and dealt with, you just have a bunch of new ones added to the mix.
Uberfuhrer
08-19-2008, 12:44 AM
:shock:
You heard her. Don't cheat on the missus!
heart
08-19-2008, 12:47 AM
Yes, you value them so much that you want to take them and keep them for yourself! :devil:
They don't work too well like that.
Uberfuhrer
08-19-2008, 12:49 AM
They don't work too well like that.
I'm sure if you attach them to a light bulb socket or a motherboard, they will perform perfectly.
heart
08-19-2008, 12:49 AM
Nothing is ever just one thing. If you're cheating on your spouse then something is wrong indeed wrong. That is why I stress that couples need to communicate with one another. I mean I don't think there is anything I can't discuss with my husband. We are very upfront with one another. So much so I think most people would be surprised but for us it's healthy.
This is always ideal but then life comes in and sometimes takes away a person's ability to express themselves well or to communicate exactly what's going on. Things can get complex. There's no one fix for anything No panceas.
Maabus1999
08-19-2008, 01:08 AM
Surprised on how many people think this is false. I guess alot of N's are trying to find higher meaning in rationalizing man as being more then what he really is. Question to follow on this then: Do you all think folks who can stop being cheaters are restricted to values? Personality Types? What? What is your reasoning for someone to change something they have done before?
It could also be my Fi values and personal experience from myself and friends that could effect my decision. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think cheaters are looking to stab you at any moment BUT I do think if things soured, even for a short time, they are already comfortable with the fact they may find it easier to do again. Of course there may be a minority that are self mortified from their previous actions.
entropie
08-19-2008, 02:33 AM
27:36 that is disgusting xD
Uytuun
08-20-2008, 10:40 PM
It does depend on the context...at least for me.
GargoylesLegacy
11-03-2008, 12:41 AM
I kinda agree with Mercury.
Once a Cheater, always a Cheater: NO!
Back when I was 17 I had a BF who I was with for 6 Months already and he didn't wanna be "nice to me" (in ANY Way!) and even after numerous Tries to talk to him about it and make my Point clear he still didn't change it so what happened was, that I got a "Crush" on another Guy and slept with him. BUT I did tell my BF about what happened. I can't lie or keep the Truth, seriously not.
I would say I have "grown up" a lot since then and I didn't really do that anymore. Just because I did not enjoy it. I was seriously going nuts about it and it would eat me up, even WHILE doing it. But yeah, that is in the Past and I do like to believe that People can change. At least I did (not only on that one, but also in General).
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