Crazy people and MBTI[c]

[prplchknz]

So do you think mentally ill people are more likely to be attracted to MBTI[c]? If so why?

I think it can, because their is a stigma for mental health issues. So often times people realize that they are not quite like others, and part of them knows they should probably talk to someone. But the other part doesn't know what they'd do if someone found out, so they explore different avenues such as religion and personality type. So as I was saying their searching for any sort of confirmation that they're normal and as soon as they get it they latch on. I could of course be totally wrong. So opinions, and be honest.

[Jeffster]

Nah, it's not...well, whatver...and yeah, you know.

What?

:party2:

Yeaaaaaaaahhhhhh....

[proteanmix]

I think you're on to something, in fact I was thinking about creating a thread like this.

It seems to me that many mentally unbalanced people are attracted to this forum and others like it. I guess psychology forums may have some type of inherent draw maybe, perhaps, possibly, conceivably.

[prplchknz]

I think you're on to something, in fact I was thinking about creating a thread like this.

It seems to me that many mentally unbalanced people are attracted to this forum and others like it. I guess psychology forums may have some type of inherent draw maybe, perhaps, possibly, conceivably.

well yeah, you were one that brought it up and zergling suggested I start it. Silly goose.......OOh what about religious forums, think they could draw the same type of people?

[entropie]

oh gosh, I should go back to the physics forum, I am getting afraid :)

[Little Linguist]

Hell, yeah, I'm crazy!!!!!!

Woo hoo!!!!!!! :hi:

[Jack Flak]

Insanity has a lesser presence here than on INTPc.

[Haphazard]

Now, is this place attracting crazy people, or does this place make people go crazy?

I'm almost inclined to argue the latter...

[entropie]

agreed :)

[Spartacuss]

Yep, there are some certifiable personas around these parts. You have to wonder if they are only feigning an antic disposition or truly whacked. I can see why true nuts are attracted in particular to the religion and psychology forums. These topics tend to attract their fair share of mumbo jumbo from even the sane. The insane shouldn't be as conspicuously nutty there. From the looks of the thread, the strategy's not working out too well.

[Little Linguist]

Awww, heck, admit it - we crazy people make life interesting for the rest of you...

...as long as we don't come busting in like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator, I think it's okay.

I'm crazy, sure, but in a lovable way that somehow makes you want to smack me, hug me, laugh at me, and shout at me all at the same time. :devil:

[proteanmix]

Awww, heck, admit it - we crazy people make life interesting for the rest of you...

...as long as we don't come busting in like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator, I think it's okay.

I'm crazy, sure, but in a lovable way that somehow makes you want to smack me, hug me, laugh at me, and shout at me all at the same time. :devil:

This thread ain't about you, Little Linguist.

[Spartacuss]

I'm wondering if everybody had the same poster or two in mind when they saw the thread title. :laugh:

[prplchknz]

I'm wondering if everybody had the same poster or two in mind when they saw the thread title. :laugh:

I don't know, who did you have in mine? rep or pm me unless you think the person in question won't be offended. and if it's me no I won't be offended.

[Jack Flak]

I'm wondering if everybody had the same poster or two in mind when they saw the thread title. :laugh:
Was thinking of this one:
http://www.chroniclebooks.com/images/items/0811839/0811839974/0811839974_norm.jpg

[Haphazard]

I kind of wonder who was in mind, too...

[prplchknz]

no one in particular.

[proteanmix]

I have no one person in mind and it's not Victor.

Really it's not.

[Little Linguist]

I know, Pro, I was just being crazy-- uh, uh, uh -- I mean silly. :devil:

Don't take it the wrong way. :hug:

[Jeffster]

Well, Haphazard said I was the only sane one here, and she knows frickin everything, so there.

Now, excuse me while I go see if that tricycle I lit on fire is finished burning yet.

[entropie]

hahahaha xD

[entropie]

I think there are people in distress that come here and seek for guidance. And from the things I read so far, guidance is provided to the best means possible :).

But I do not think a thread title like "Crazy People and MBTIc" is appropiate.

Rename it and I am in the boat :)

[Spartacuss]

You sure you're not already in the boat?

[entropie]

Yes :)

[proteanmix]

Are you really sure, Mr. Naked Oiled Ass?

[Spartacuss]

:rofl1:

[entropie]

ah gosh, you got me :)

Feels a bit flattering, have not known that you actually read the shit :)

[prplchknz]

I think there are people in distress that come here and seek for guidance. And from the things I read so far, guidance is provided to the best means possible :).

But I do not think a thread title like "Crazy People and MBTIc" is appropiate.

Rename it and I am in the boat :)

how about; absolutley certifiably bat shit crazy people and MBTI[c]?

[entropie]

Dont know what it means but it surely sounds good xD

I am in :)

[Anonymous]

"Crazy". Kind of a poor word for serious discussions anymore, imo. If we're talking about personality disorders, possibly. Paranoid schizophrenics and the equivelant? Occasionally, sure, but not so much as personality disorders.

[Silently Honest]

MBTI[c] or the internet?

[Uberfuhrer]

Someone please define "crazy."

[CaptainChick]

Crazy = abnormal

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. ;)

[prplchknz]

if I could figure out how I would re name it to [untreated] mentally ill and MBTI[c] I swear I've accidently made the prompt come up for me a few times but the one time I actually want to re name something I can't.

[entropie]

Someone please define "crazy."

This is a homemade video of my job last christmas as Santa. Guess that works for a preliminary definition xD :
YouTube - Bad Santa - Drunk at work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVRmXc8PPqk)

[Jen]

This thread ain't about you, Little Linguist.*whispers* Don't say anything but I think she's a little :crazy:. :ninja:

[Buds of May]

So... who suspects me?

:17026: Don't click "Submit Reply".

[entropie]

I did, from the start on :nerd:

[entropie]

Though all the crazy people, there might be.

And though this thread has not become a girl bitching way to denouce every one that comes into view.

Or though this thread is just developing into the opportunity to maybe, on a communicable way, state what one thinks.

----

I find it yet great that noone has felt the urge to kill anyone.

In my opinion that is the agent of which great personalities are woven of. :D

[booyalab]

Crazy = abnormal

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. ;)

Crazy = derangement, totally unsound, brainsick

It's not necessarily bad if you're crazy, I suppose. But it kind of makes life difficult for the people who aren't.

[entropie]

Crazy = derangement, totally unsound, brainsick

It's not necessarily bad if you're crazy, I suppose. But it kind of makes life difficult for the people who aren't.

Yea, dont you know we did not know that ?

And second what is "aren't".

Define me normal and I define you quantum dynamics

[entropie]

Sorry, no heart feelings.

I am really over my last beer

[Gish]

"aren't" = "are not"

[booyalab]

Yea, dont you know we did not know that ?
?


And second what is "aren't". are not


Define me normal and I define you quantum dynamics

:mellow:

[JivinJeffJones]

:mellow:

She's totally hitting on you, entropie. Yer in like Flynn, mate. :yes:

[entropie]

:)

[Buds of May]

Or though this thread is just developing into the opportunity to maybe, on a communicable way, state what one thinks.

How?

I thought it was a trap to weed out paranoia. Nevermind.

How?

[prplchknz]

On vent Protean brought this up and i was not trying to trap or out anyone, I was hoping people would put in their 2 cents on the subject. Like if you think MBTI attracts people of not sound mind, more then something else, why do you think that's so. Or if not why not?

[entropie]

Well, give some snippet you are thinking about, season it with some pepper and then observe what happens. If the responses start to tear itselves apart intervene... Else, let the music play. Nothing better than the sound of new views of live.

But I suppose that is not your metier. For you the question is easy. Just wait until those talking heads that make all that hot air are gone and then thrive on your ideas. I will be the first one to go now, I drank one year old champagner because I have no money for beer. And that excuisite champagner is a pain in the stomach right now.

Just now, whatever you need to talk about, whatever moves you. Whatever you think the world needs to be changed in, what ever you think you can contribute to that. Whatever you think about the girl that will never love you, though you know it is just porn.

You are alive. And that means the story has just not been written ...

[Buds of May]

entropie, man. Remember old times? Don't leave.

This might not be the appropriate place to ask, but will you write a detailed ENTP profile?

On vent Protean brought this up and i was not trying to trap or out anyone, I was hoping people would put in their 2 cents on the subject. Like if you think MBTI attracts people of not sound mind, more then something else, why do you think that's so. Or if not why not?

I know. I was kidding.

I think most of us naturally aim for soundness of mind and look through structures like MBTI as a way to structure perceptions in logical ways. By looking through a variety of them, we see more angles, more things, more confusion, and hopefully ourselves and our own confusion. And whatever else we can.

As for the "crazy people", aren't you the wise guys defining soundness of mind for everybody, telling us who's confused and who's not? :)

[Little Linguist]

Crazy = abnormal

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. ;)

Definitely!!!!!!!! :cheese:

[Little Linguist]

*whispers* Don't say anything but I think she's a little :crazy:. :ninja:

:cheese: Hmm...crazy is cool.

[Little Linguist]

Crazy = derangement, totally unsound, brainsick

It's not necessarily bad if you're crazy, I suppose. But it kind of makes life difficult for the people who aren't.

HAHAHAHAA!

Well, I think we need to differentiate between the people who are totally sick and need to go into a sanitarium ASAP and those who are crazy in a cute kind of way that make you say, OMG - these people make life...well...interesting.

I think a bit of craziness is necessary. Here I'm defining crazy as "uninhibited ability to express things in a way the average person would not." That is cool.

Now kid coming into a school and shooting 20 people; guy beating up his wife because he cannot deal with his anger; mother abusing her children; people who are reckless - like driving while drunk or having sex without protection and spreading disease; people who commit violent crimes - not cool.

So we have to define what we are talking about here. If we mean the classic, cute variety - ROCK ON. If we mean the totally deranged mental psychopath - UH, HOPEFULLY NOT. :doh:

[Ilah]

I think that MBTI may attract people who are different or eccentric. I will not debate about whether these people would be labeled crazy or not. I suppose everyone is different, but some of us are more different than others.

If some one is average or normal, they probably never stop to think: "Why am I am normal?" or "Why am I fortunate enough not to struggle with fitting in?"

I can't speak for everyone, but I spend lots of time thinking things like "Why am I different?" "Why is it my brain doesn't seem to function the way most people's do?" "Why is it so hard for me to fit in?" "Is this a mental problem or just a difference?" I imagine it was this way for other people who are different as well, or at least some of them. Some people act like I made a deliberate effort to be different, like this was a choice I made. It never felt like a choice to me. It just felt like being myself.

I have looked at various material - psychology, pop psychology, self help and New Age - to try to answer some of my questions. Of all the different material I look at the best sources to answer my questions have been personality typing. It gives me answers: I am different because I am a rare type. My brain doesn't function the same as most people's because I am not the same type as most people. It is hard to fit in because I am a different type then most people. It isn't a mental problem, it's just a different type.

I admit, I have some eccentricities that are not accounted for by type, but it does account for many of them. Difficulty expressing feelings, day dream quite a bit, percieved as not social enough, difficulty putting ideas in words - that is just a "normal" INTJ.

Ilah

[colmena]

I isolate myself chiefly out of fear of causing emotional harm unto others.

The internet is a controlled environment where I can communicate with others without having to connect. MBTIc is a place for me to chit-chat without having to put up with bad syntax (usually ;)).

Perhaps 'abnormal' people can find normality within the internet.

[proteanmix]

But is it a real connection if you can turn it on and off when you want to? I'm sorry but it seems like a relationship of convenience to me. :(

[InaF3157]

That is the appeal. And nobody will get mad at you for switching on and off. :)

[proteanmix]

So me thinking it's a bunch of people faking being chummy chummy round here isn't to far off the mark?

[Jen]

not for me, however that is typical NTP passive aggressive behavior.

[InaF3157]

So me thinking it's a bunch of people faking being chummy chummy round here isn't to far off the mark?

:huh: Why do you think it is fake?

[Ilah]

But is it a real connection if you can turn it on and off when you want to? I'm sorry but it seems like a relationship of convenience to me. :(

Yes, it is a real connection. It is very hard for me to be sociable when I am having a bad day. I can only do so much human interaction a day and somedays it gets used up on unpleasant things like meetings.

You have to hunt to find a signifigant other and friends that understand things like "I like you but right now I need to be alone."

The internet groups don't make you feel bad if you are not up to social interactions.

Plus, many introverts find that on line socializing is less draining than real life socialization.

Ilah

[colmena]

For me it is a relationship of convenience. But I have made good friends on the internet. I just came back last Sunday from a six day visit in Gloucester with a friend I met online.

For 'abnormal' people, it is obviously difficult to find people they can feel comfortable communicating with. The internet provides something of a filter in which to discover like-minds.

It isn't the universal ideal way of going about things, and my existence isn't a courageous one, but I latch on to every bit of happiness I can get if I don't think I'm going to upset another.

[proteanmix]

Good question! *cracks knuckles*

I wonder how much can someone identify with another person when the person in question only knows that the other person wants them to know. Maybe it's just me but that doesn't seem very sincere to me. Not that this doesn't happen IRL but internet communications seem more susceptible to this.

I mostly see the "fakeness" in blogs and relationship threads where all people do is tell the person in question how awesome and great they are and how they don't deserve to be treated in XYZ manner. Knowing what little I do know about people I find the "victimized" party tends to downplay and minimize what responsibility they had in the whole mess.

Secondly, this may not be the most PC thing to say on this forum (which does have it's own politically correct culture) I do think a lot of mentally unstable people are attracted to MBTI and use the traits associated with their personality type as a barrier from them getting treatment. You know, "I'm not crazy, I'm just an INTP." For those of you who think crazy is sexy, more power to you! Here ya go, have my portion of crazy.

Example: I found the NFtensity thread pretty disturbing where people seemed they were just trying to outdo each other with how crazy and spastic they can be in real life. When I thought about that, would I really want to be around somebody like that for extended periods of time or deal with the natural consequences of people who proclaim to be like that I really think not. I've dealt with people like that in real life and while they're fun and charming they tend not to naturally realize how the translates into life.

Basically what I'm saying is if some people admit (not everyone is here for the same purpose) that what's great about internet socializng is that you don't have to put the effort into it that you do IRL, what is the quality of what effort that is put into it? Sometimes it seems like cheap strokes to me. And for a group of people the rail against the superficiality they see in their real lives it looks like more of the same here.

Well now, I'm just ranting so I'd better stop. ;)

[colmena]

Listen to Ilah. She seems to say everything I want to, but my hands seem incapable of typing.


not for me, however that is typical NTP passive aggressive behavior.

This needs to be discussed. I do aggressive-aggressive or silence. I've seen other INTPs be passive-aggressive, but overtly so (that makes sense. Promise:D).

ENTPs I can't talk for. Their desires baffle me. But at the same time, seem to make total sense when used practically. I hope to see one open up one day.

[colmena]

I don't think you're talking to me, proteanmix, but I rarely say positive things about myself. I believe that I am rationally depressed about the world and myself (in general), and have aired this repeatedly. I don't do it so often anymore because I know people don't want to hear it. If I'm being selectively positive, it's out of compassion.

[InaF3157]

Basically what I'm saying is if some people admit (not everyone is here for the same purpose) that what's great about internet socializng is that you don't have to put the effort into it that you do IRL, what is the quality of what effort that is put into it? Sometimes it seems like cheap strokes to me. And for a group of people the rail against the superficiality they see in their real lives it looks like more of the same here.

Well now, I'm just ranting so I'd better stop. ;)
I would think that the effort that is put into it is different qualitatively but not necessarily less sincere. Maybe it is more effortless because it does not demand nearly the same degree of social stroking. You mentioned people writing niceties in other people's blogs that you suspect is insincere fluffing. However, I think the internet demands less of that than IRL. In this way, IRL demands more effort, but is also more fake. I suppose that makes the net more convenient.
The net is also convenient for the reason that it makes certain types of discourse easier that would be incredibly tough said face to face. I have seen people give honest assessments to near strangers when it was tough, but fair and sorely needed. I've thought that the assessment would not likely have been given if it were someone sitting next to them talking about their problems like that.
The relationship of convenience part is that people will not be offended or feel neglected if you go AWOL for long stretches . . .It does not mean that you do not value what is there or that you are insincere when you are around.

[booyalab]

So we have to define what we are talking about here. If we mean the classic, cute variety - ROCK ON. If we mean the totally deranged mental psychopath - UH, HOPEFULLY NOT. :doh:

There's also the demotivator definition:
http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/madness.jpg

[substitute]

Difficult to tell what someone's really like by their behaviour on a forum, mainly because you never know really how many of all the 'well adjusted' people you know (or think you know) actually have lots of antisocial/maladjusted sides to them that they don't show in RL but let loose on the forums by way of relief.

Similarly, you don't know how many of the people who seem really nice here are actually a nightmare to live with or know in RL.

I wouldn't say I was in a position to judge someone's mental health state just by their behaviour, or the behaviour of whatever person (or persons) is behind their pseudo. Perfectly sane people might, with the detachment that the internet can easily encourage in even the most 'nice' people, get a laugh out of seeing how silly/crazy/mean they can be on the internet. Perhaps they're testing out reactions in a 'safe' environment as they explore the sphere of acceptable behaviour in RL, as young people quite rightly and healthily do.

I dunno... a sane person's behaviour can degenerate pretty far due to traumas or whatever else, without any qualified shrink being willing to certify them actually crazy.

And FWIW IF3157, I agree with your point. It also annoys me when people try to invalidate internet friendships or communities in that way. Let's not forget some people on this group have met and married through the internet. if that's not sincere or committed, then I don't know what is.

[Jen]

The majority of INTP's just want to be left alone so when faced with aggression they usually back down. When this is done to them enough times they become frustrated and hit back passive aggressively.

ENTP's are outspoken but seem to get their feelings tread on easily when confronted with their outspokennes, then turn around when the episode has finished and make out like you're the sensitive one. :rolleyes: They're very good at spinning things and arguing with one is most frustrating. I mentioned this earlier today here (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/280167-post680.html) and a real live one even responded. ;)

[prplchknz]

I've been thinking about people and being crazy. I also wonder if someone is truly crazy, wouldn't they want to try and hide that when on a forum, since in real life if everyone he or she knew viewed him or her as crazy would get tiring. I mean wouldn't someone like that might want a break? sorry this is probably not coherent I'm still on my first cup of coffee.

[proteanmix]

I would think that the effort that is put into it is different qualitatively but not necessarily less sincere. Maybe it is more effortless because it does not demand nearly the same degree of social stroking.
You mentioned people writing niceties in other people's blogs that you suspect is insincere fluffing. However, I think the internet demands less of that than IRL. In this way, IRL demands more effort, but is also more fake.

Actually it seems like more social stroking, not less. What differentiates the forms of social stroking you think? It seems like you have to work harder on the internet to net the same benefits. Like if I'm talking to someone stubbing their toe on the bed that morning. I may smile sympathetically and tilt my head in a certain way and not say anything at all. That doesn't suffice here on the internet. Wordless communication is ineffective communication. Silence is usually taken as negative communication and that's magnified on the internet I think. You PM someone and they never respond. What do you think?

I suppose that makes the net more convenient.
The net is also convenient for the reason that it makes certain types of discourse easier that would be incredibly tough said face to face. I have seen people give honest assessments to near strangers when it was tough, but fair and sorely needed. I've thought that the assessment would not likely have been given if it were someone sitting next to them talking about their problems like that.

Seems about half and half to me. But yes, that has happened

The relationship of convenience part is that people will not be offended or feel neglected if you go AWOL for long stretches . . .It does not mean that you do not value what is there or that you are insincere when you are around.

I think it's kind of inherent and implicit in relationships of convenience that the effort that it would usually take to maintain a relationship won't be given to this relationship. I think both parties are agreeing that they will only participate in the relationship when it suits their needs and when it no longer does it can be terminated. Neutrally, a convenience is something that makes something easier or is less labor intensive. I'm not saying people should toil in relationships and that they should be very hard but if I know the investment in the relationship can be rescinded whenever it does become too labor intensive or hard to maintain. So investing in discourse that's too hard IRL life is transitioned to the internet. So I'm just doing some googling and found this:

Have we become so comfortable, or should I say anesthetized, in our current situations that we are not willing make the changes needed in our lives, communities, countries and planet, to make a better life or a better world? Are we stunting our spiritual and emotional well-being just because it's too inconvenient to begin to live our lifes purpose ? Have we filled our lives up with so much doing, that we are to sedated to consider just being?

This is what strikes me as insincere/inauthentic about some transactions on the forum. It's the mere fact that it can be turned on and off . I'm not saying it can't transition but what makes it even more annoying is when people come to the forum complaining about this and then engage in it.

Colemna, it's not you. You seem pretty honest about yourself and I appreciate that. :hug:

[phoenix13]

I am offended. Crazy? Us? No...

A little socially awkward, perhaps. A bit unorthodox in beliefs, perchance. A bit loose with metaphors and associations, ay, there's the rub!

[See what I did there? The "perchance" triggered Hamlet's "perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub!" so I brought up the loose associations (loose associations are processed during REM sleep) to get us there. Do you see? Eh? Eh?...Weird? Shut it!]

Yeah, MBTIc doesn't have crazy people... just really really awesome people. Maybe even "special" people... You know, I don't think I'm helping so I'll just stop here.

[prplchknz]

sheesh...I'll be the first to admit that I am socially awkward, and I have not written myself off as totally sane. I do not think I'm above it all, I posted a thesis to either be ripped to shreds or proven as correct, not to offend. and also to get other people's opinions. I can not stress this enough: I DO NOT HAVE ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IN MIND!!!! and see the brackets around the c? yes those. know what those mean it means that I am talking about being attracted to this forum, but at the same time to MBTI in general. So take any personality forum and I would probably say the same thing there as here.

[substitute]

I've been thinking about people and being crazy. I also wonder if someone is truly crazy, wouldn't they want to try and hide that when on a forum, since in real life if everyone he or she knew viewed him or her as crazy would get tiring. I mean wouldn't someone like that might want a break? sorry this is probably not coherent I'm still on my first cup of coffee.

No I know what you mean. I once met a woman who I got to know online - online she seemed to be the most sweet, kind, gentle thing that wouldn't harm a soul. To hear her talk you'd have thought she was some martyr that put up with rubbish from everyone because she was so empathic and caring.

In reality, it turned out she was bone fucking idle, made a mess all the time in her house and never cleaned up after herself or pulled her weight either with work or bills, which drove her housemates crazy and made them often yell at her. She spent most of her time in her room on the internet 'caring' about people she never met, but in RL she was a total basket case. She'd say the most rude and hurtful things to people and then burst into tears and storm off, then she'd come back later as though nothing happened. If you tried to get an explanation out of her she'd say she didn't want to talk about it and she'd got through it in her head now and it was 'over', yet she'd left the other person spinning, confused and frightened and didn't think she even owed them an explanation as to why she exploded at them just cos they asked her if she wanted milk in her coffee or something similarly mundane.

But by the same token, I've met quite a lot of people off the internet and most of them have turned out to be just as they were online.

As for my motivations... well, primarily if I meet people online then I do really want to make RL friends of them. I don't really get that much satisfaction out of friendships that stay online, where the other person won't meet up. I can understand it if a) they live very far away or b) we haven't known each other long online. But when they live fairly close by me and we've been chatting and stuff for months, I can't understand why they sometimes still won't meet up for coffee or lunch or whatever, even bring a friend or whatever if they need to, but why just keep refusing? I can imagine several reasons why they might, but I feel quite impatient all the same and frustrated that the friendship has to be limited this way.

I'm never against meeting up with people in RL that I meet online, if the distance is realistic then I'm happy to do it ASAP. So part of the motive for me is to make real friends.

talking about commitment levels being questionable because of the ease of 'switching off' from internet friends... well. It's not as if there's anything stopping people switching off from RL friends either is it? I've been cut dead by a couple in my time, and I've cut a few dead myself in RL. I know it happens all the time, that people feel they've been pushed too far or whatever by someone in RL and they feel they've had enough, or even people just think you're too boring or whatever, and they start ignoring your calls, pretending to be out when you visit, blanking you basically.

The commitment in RL comes where even though you have the option of cutting the person off, you choose not to. Online, if I've given you my e-mail address and chat nickname or whatever, my personal home address and phone number so you can write and phone, then it's no different than in RL - I choose not to cut you off, I choose not to change my e-mail address or block you from my MSN, even though sometimes we might disagree or whatever.

There are some online friends I have who live just too far away for me to meet them face to face, but that doesn't mean I don't still wish I could, and sincerely want to. And if I'm ever in their part of the world then I will, and sometimes I'll even go there just to meet them, depending again on what sort of expense we're talking about here.

Where I have to accept, like on this forum, that I'm never going to meet most of the people, then that still doesn't mean I don't sincerely feel some kind of bond with some of them. Again that's no different than being in any RL community. You can go to a church, say, for years, where 200 people go every Sunday, but it's rare I'd say that anyone would genuinely feel attached and bonded with all 200. You have your friends you bond with and then the rest that you kinda care about but wouldn't miss too much if they went to another church.

I don't think there's any particular pattern so to speak, to be able to say "people online do this or that which people in RL don't do" or "people online do this because of XYZ" or whatever. i think the quality of relationship and behaviour and stuff online is completely dependent on the individuals, just like in RL.

I try to be there as much as I can for my online friends and don't prioritize my RL friends over them. They're all real people and deserve to be treated accordingly. If an online friend e-mails me and it's something even vaguely important I'll respond straight away, and I've often prioritized it over RL tasks. I've made a RL friend sit and wait while I answered an e-mail from an online friend because the RL friend and I were just talking about football whilst the online friend is asking for help with something. If they're on a tricky time zone then I schedule times when we can chat still or phone each other, always preferring to phone if possible. I send them postcards when I go on vacation or little gifts that just remind me of them. I am JUST as committed and sincere in online friendships as I am in RL, which is very much so.

[colmena]

The majority of INTP's just want to be left alone so when faced with aggression they usually back down. When this is done to them enough times they become frustrated and hit back passive aggressively.

I could see this happening. I tend to just flood with big words, and sometimes silence can be the most brutal passive-aggression (ie. you're not worth talking to). Fortunately, I wouldn't have thought most INTPs would put themselves in a position where they can be attacked. 'though I'd say it's all very different online.

[prplchknz]

No I know what you mean. I once met a woman who I got to know online - online she seemed to be the most sweet, kind, gentle thing that wouldn't harm a soul. To hear her talk you'd have thought she was some martyr that put up with rubbish from everyone because she was so empathic and caring.

In reality, it turned out she was bone fucking idle, made a mess all the time in her house and never cleaned up after herself or pulled her weight either with work or bills, which drove her housemates crazy and made them often yell at her. She spent most of her time in her room on the internet 'caring' about people she never met, but in RL she was a total basket case. She'd say the most rude and hurtful things to people and then burst into tears and storm off, then she'd come back later as though nothing happened. If you tried to get an explanation out of her she'd say she didn't want to talk about it and she'd got through it in her head now and it was 'over', yet she'd left the other person spinning, confused and frightened and didn't think she even owed them an explanation as to why she exploded at them just cos they asked her if she wanted milk in her coffee or something similarly mundane.

But by the same token, I've met quite a lot of people off the internet and most of them have turned out to be just as they were online.

As for my motivations... well, primarily if I meet people online then I do really want to make RL friends of them. I don't really get that much satisfaction out of friendships that stay online, where the other person won't meet up. I can understand it if a) they live very far away or b) we haven't known each other long online. But when they live fairly close by me and we've been chatting and stuff for months, I can't understand why they sometimes still won't meet up for coffee or lunch or whatever, even bring a friend or whatever if they need to, but why just keep refusing? I can imagine several reasons why they might, but I feel quite impatient all the same and frustrated that the friendship has to be limited this way.

I'm never against meeting up with people in RL that I meet online, if the distance is realistic then I'm happy to do it ASAP. So part of the motive for me is to make real friends.

talking about commitment levels being questionable because of the ease of 'switching off' from internet friends... well. It's not as if there's anything stopping people switching off from RL friends either is it? I've been cut dead by a couple in my time, and I've cut a few dead myself in RL. I know it happens all the time, that people feel they've been pushed too far or whatever by someone in RL and they feel they've had enough, or even people just think you're too boring or whatever, and they start ignoring your calls, pretending to be out when you visit, blanking you basically.

The commitment in RL comes where even though you have the option of cutting the person off, you choose not to. Online, if I've given you my e-mail address and chat nickname or whatever, my personal home address and phone number so you can write and phone, then it's no different than in RL - I choose not to cut you off, I choose not to change my e-mail address or block you from my MSN, even though sometimes we might disagree or whatever.

There are some online friends I have who live just too far away for me to meet them face to face, but that doesn't mean I don't still wish I could, and sincerely want to. And if I'm ever in their part of the world then I will, and sometimes I'll even go there just to meet them, depending again on what sort of expense we're talking about here.

Where I have to accept, like on this forum, that I'm never going to meet most of the people, then that still doesn't mean I don't sincerely feel some kind of bond with some of them. Again that's no different than being in any RL community. You can go to a church, say, for years, where 200 people go every Sunday, but it's rare I'd say that anyone would genuinely feel attached and bonded with all 200. You have your friends you bond with and then the rest that you kinda care about but wouldn't miss too much if they went to another church.

I don't think there's any particular pattern so to speak, to be able to say "people online do this or that which people in RL don't do" or "people online do this because of XYZ" or whatever. i think the quality of relationship and behaviour and stuff online is completely dependent on the individuals, just like in RL.

I try to be there as much as I can for my online friends and don't prioritize my RL friends over them. They're all real people and deserve to be treated accordingly. If an online friend e-mails me and it's something even vaguely important I'll respond straight away, and I've often prioritized it over RL tasks. I've made a RL friend sit and wait while I answered an e-mail from an online friend because the RL friend and I were just talking about football whilst the online friend is asking for help with something. If they're on a tricky time zone then I schedule times when we can chat still or phone each other, always preferring to phone if possible. I send them postcards when I go on vacation or little gifts that just remind me of them. I am JUST as committed and sincere in online friendships as I am in RL, which is very much so.
I've met people in real life from a forum, and I don't really consider people I talk to online as friends, but rather potential friends. And after I've met them sometimes we have become friends, other times it didn't work out. I'm saying that I'm pretty willing to meet people from the internet, and give them a chance. Even if I didn't particularly like them on the forum, like you said you can't really know a person and you might like them in real life. At the same time if I talk to you every day in class but we don't hang outside of class, you would not be a friend, but a potential friend. But yeah distance is often a big factor, I made a friend from England, but I was going to be over their anyways. It wasn't like i just went their to meet her.

[substitute]

Yeah, I think the 'potential friend' way too, but to me once we've chatted on the phone a few times and exchanged a load of messages and stuff, it's usually fairly obvious whether we gel or not.

Actually I've never phoned Jennifer and only recently got her home address but I genuinely think of her as a friend that I care about deeply and think of often, for example.

I dunno... I don't see why circumstances preventing people from fulfilling typical social requirements of friendships necessarily invalidates them. Cos there are a whole lot of people whose requirements or preferences, I mean whose idea or expectations of a friendship are very different from those that are socially considered normal or whatever, and they have RL friendships that are maintained the way they're happy with. It's frustrated me a lot in the past when my mom's accused me of 'hurting' friends of mine because I've not done what she thinks I should've done or said, even though what I did do was perfectly consistent with the pattern of that friendship and moreover, what I knew that friend in particular wants and enjoys.

A lot of the 'niceties' that are required in making (not maintaining) RL friendships, which usually begin within larger groups where social behaviour has to be more conforming/conservative, are not necessary online. And it's just those sorts of niceties that NTP's and perhaps others don't particularly value, and which might even get in the way of making, maintaining and deepening friendships. Leading perhaps to the friendships made online being in fact more satisfying and sincere for them.

[InaF3157]

Actually it seems like more social stroking, not less. What differentiates the forms of social stroking you think?
Really? From where I sit, I definitely have more demands for social stroking IRL than on the net. :thinking: Now that I think about it, maybe it is just that I do not recognize the demands of net social stroking, even if they are there. Is the difference that I can afford not to recognize the demands on the net? Perhaps.

Like if I'm talking to someone stubbing their toe on the bed that morning. I may smile sympathetically and tilt my head in a certain way and not say anything at all. That doesn't suffice here on the internet. Wordless communication is ineffective communication.
But there is an abundance of smilies with actions that i may engage in more often than I do IRL, and that may be clearer because of standardized net usage. :) I find that misunderstandings get cleared up much more quickly (for better or worse) with other net personas than with some people IRL.
If I PM someone and they don't respond and the nature of the PM demanded a response . . . well, I know for sure they are ignoring me. Or something is going on with them. But unless we had developed a friendship it does not feel the same as if someone IRL did the same thing. I'm not sure what you mean with this though because wordless communication can be very ineffective IRL.


Seems about half and half to me. But yes, that has happened
And isn't it refreshing?

This is what strikes me as insincere/inauthentic about some transactions on the forum. It's the mere fact that it can be turned on and off . I'm not saying it can't transition but what makes it even more annoying is when people come to the forum complaining about this and then engage in it.
I do not consider anything inauthentic if it does not chiefly consist of lies and deception. It is a different animal, though. I guess it depends on your expectations. What do you hope to get out of the interaction? I do not go online expecting to form friendships like IRL. It is possible to transition from one to the other, but this would require assuming the roles and expectations.


Colemna, it's not you. You seem pretty honest about yourself and I appreciate that. :hug:
Hmm . . . see that is another expectation I do not have and do not feel cheated if I am denied it: that people are honest about themselves. Heck, people are not honest about themselves IRL either. The world is populated by people who bare themselves and people who do not. And those who appear to bare themselves while they do not. It keeps things interesting.

edit: and some do not have a true self to be honest about. ;)

[disregard]

Eh, "crazy" is dismissive. I wouldn't label myself crazy, nor would I label anyone else here crazy.

[Ilah]

For me it is not just about convenience. I used to post regularly, regardless of how I was feeling. On my bad days because I tend to be irritable, argumentive, easily offended - not to mention I wasn't adding anything productive to any internet conversations. After some rocky patches, including accidently driving an emotionally sensitve person away from a group, I realized it was better for everyone if I didn't post anything on my bad days.

I also try to avoid real life interaction on those days as well. Some people are more understanding than others.

On some of my groups I have actually explained this to people up front - "If I don't write for a while that means I am having some stressful times. I will be back latter."

Actually quitting a group I am very active with is not something I do lightly. I would tend to break it off for the same reasons I would a real life relationship. One group I left because any one that held different views than the moderator was treated poorly (it didn't start out that way). One group I left because the atmosphere was very negative. One group I tried hard to fit in but it became apparent that everyone in the group help the same values, ideals, relious views - except me.

Ilah

[heart]

On vent Protean brought this up and i was not trying to trap or out anyone, I was hoping people would put in their 2 cents on the subject. Like if you think MBTI attracts people of not sound mind, more then something else, why do you think that's so. Or if not why not?

I think it attracts people who would like to become saner.

And if this thread was started about me, I can deal with it.

[Jen]

And if this thread was started about me, I can deal with it.Why would you think that?

[heart]

Why would you think that?

:D Fi paranoia. I'm feeling neurotic and narcissitic today.

Edit: We should have a poll, how many people saw this thread and thought they were one of the ones being talked about. ;)

[Little Linguist]

There's also the demotivator definition:
http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/madness.jpg

Nahh, too much to think about already ;-)

[entropie]

I also try to avoid real life interaction on those days as well. Some people are more understanding than others.

On some of my groups I have actually explained this to people up front - "If I don't write for a while that means I am having some stressful times. I will be back latter."

Ilah

Gosh, girl quit analyzing yourself. You are about to reach the point when there is nothing more to be found out about oneself, if you do not expand.

There are boundaries and limitations even to a complex human psyche and when you overstep them and are not aware of that you fall into a lamenting way of life, where you overstep the boundary and then loop back to the point where it was set, cause behind it there is nothing more, except madness.

Change your views, expand your life. Do something stupid, but first of all, recognize your condition !

[Silently Honest]

There's also the demotivator definition:
http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/madness.jpg

Well I'll be... I'm mad.

You learn something new everyday.

[Jeffster]

Some of y'all definitely got an overthinking problem. Life's too short to worry if someone is showing you their "true self" online. I mean, if you actually plan to have a real life relationship with someone, that's one thing. But if all you do is talk to a person online, then react to the self they show you, and get on with your life!

This has been "Practical Advice from the Jeffster." Join us next time for when I explain the proper way to get ants out of a blender. ;)

[entropie]

Well I'll be... I'm mad.

You learn something new everyday.

*Building a little trap between the bathroom and Silently Honest*

*wait in the corner to see some pride fall*

xD

[entropie]

Some of y'all definitely got an overthinking problem. Life's too short to worry if someone is showing you their "true self" online. I mean, if you actually plan to have a real life relationship with someone, that's one thing. But if all you do is talk to a person online, then react to the self they show you, and get on with your life!

This has been "Practical Advice from the Jeffster." Join us next time for when I explain the proper way to get ants out of a blender. ;)

I cant tell, how much I love you belated. :) That something going on between us has grown far beyond a manlike friendship xD

[Silently Honest]

*Building a little trap between the bathroom and Silently Honest*

*wait in the corner to see some pride fall*

xD
Ha! Jokes on you, Mr. Durden the soap salesmen warned me.

[Spartacuss]

:wacko:

[Little Linguist]

Some of y'all definitely got an overthinking problem. Life's too short to worry if someone is showing you their "true self" online. I mean, if you actually plan to have a real life relationship with someone, that's one thing. But if all you do is talk to a person online, then react to the self they show you, and get on with your life!

This has been "Practical Advice from the Jeffster." Join us next time for when I explain the proper way to get ants out of a blender. ;)

HAHAHHAHAHA, man you are amusing! :D

[entropie]

Ha! Jokes on you, Mr. Durden the soap salesmen warned me.

xDD

[Little Linguist]

Oh good LAWD...we are a crazy bunch.

<That was an inspirational N moment brought to you by Amnesia, Inc.>

(Crap, I forgot the comma).

[Little Linguist]

xDD

Ja, DU AUCH! :D

[entropie]

Ja, DU AUCH! :D

Hab heut nen neuen guten Spruch gehoert xD

"Ein Ingenieur der nicht saeuft, ist wie ein Motor der nicht laeuft"

*fg* xDD

[Jeffster]

I cant tell, how much I love you belated. :) That something going on between us has grown far beyond a manlike friendship xD

Well, hell. Let's go put on flannel and chop wood, so we can reassert our manliness and share in our loving feelings at the same time without being creepy in the slightest. :D

[Little Linguist]

Hab heut nen neuen guten Spruch gehoert xD

"Ein Ingenieur der nicht saeuft, ist wie ein Motor der nicht laeuft"

*fg* xDD

HAHAHAHA, na gut, das erklärt viel!!!!! :grinsen:

:hug: Eines Tages findest du ganz durch Zufall eine besondere Person - vielleicht Jeffster, vielleicht eine schöne, hübsche liebe Frau - die dir zeigt, wie schön das Leben ist - und zwar ohne zu saufen! ;)

[entropie]

xDD no rush, I like beer :)

[Little Linguist]

Well, hell. Let's go put on flannel and chop wood, so we can reassert our manliness and share in our loving feelings at the same time without being creepy in the slightest. :D

Hahahahaha, Jeff!!!

Wow two men in flannel and chopping wood. Only thing betta would be to see my husband do that - but he's manly enough already. :heart: :yes: :blush:

[Little Linguist]

:shock::huh: Wieso unhöflich?!!?! Ich habe nur ein Bizzi Spaß gemacht. Dat kann der Kehhhrrrrr aushalten!!! Er ist doch Deutscher!!! Und vertrau' mir doch - dat war harmlos.

[entropie]

I have got that very hot shirt I use to look like an engineer. I have it with a karo pattern in soft blue and white. My grandma saw my love, I had towards the coat and she bought me one in dark red , dark purple.

I think I have finally found a use for it, wood-choping it is !! xDD

[ThatGirl]

The nice man in the white jacket that carried the taser told me that I was a sick person and needed to take medicen, but it tends to make me sick so instead I feed it to my puppet. Who has been well behaved latey except for the occassional coments on wood. He hates that I named him woody but I refuse to change it despite his urgings for tinker bell. I just coulndt imagine looking over at "tink" when my nighlight is frozen. Some tinks never get it.:hug:

[entropie]

The nice man in the white jacket that carried the taser told me that I was a sick person and needed to take medicen, but it tends to make me sick so instead I feed it to my puppet.

:rofl1: damn good one xD:banana2:

[substitute]

Well, hell. Let's go put on flannel and chop wood, so we can reassert our manliness and share in our loving feelings at the same time without being creepy in the slightest. :D

Have you been bonding around on me just as I turned my back? :cry: And you entropie! after the bonding moments we've had over our mutual geekdom and Deutschsprachig-ness, you go wearing flannel shirts with Jeffster! :cry:

See it's true, internet people are just out for their own kicks!! :steam:

Hehehe... no you're right Jeffster, what you said before about the overthinking problem. I mean EVERYBODY fakes to some extent both in RL and online (and I solidly believe that it's no easier or harder to tell in either situation, whether somebody is), yes even self-righteous people who think they're the most genuinest thing in the universe, because everyone at some level lies to themselves. If we were all super conscious and self-aware Buddhas that were freed from self-delusion then the Internet wouldn't have been invented cos we'd all be too busy meditating. :jesus:

There's no point being anal about it. I just take people as I find them and let them take me as they wish, since they will any damn way!!

Well actually I'm still working on that last part, I mean it's easy for me to take others as I find them and accept people etc, but not so easy for me to not care when they don't like me! Especially when it's because I feel they've just misunderstood me!

[entropie]

http://www.geocities.com/asder_zxc/Starfleet_Forces1.jpg

I would never EVER disappoint my captain !

For I am starfleet and my sense of duty comes with my soul ! xDD

[substitute]

ROFL! And the really sad part about that is that I instantly recognized from which episode that still was taken!! :rofl1:

:nerd:

(edited to correct grammar :D)

[Spartacuss]

Is it a coincidence that the ENTPs are now out in full force dominating the crazy people thread?

[substitute]

Birds of a feather, my observant friend, responding to the call of the wild :)

No, we're just the ones everyone thinks are insane, but we're actually frighteningly sane :devil:

[entropie]

And for that, I love you :)

YouTube - Star Trek Deep Space Nine: Sacrifice of Angels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCm70favfYI)

[ThatGirl]

Awwwwwoooooooooo!!!!!OOOOOOO!!!!! AAWWWOOOOOOO!






Was it time for the howling yet? Too soon?:doh: I always start the howling too soon.

[substitute]

And for that, I love you :)

YouTube - Star Trek Deep Space Nine: Sacrifice of Angels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCm70favfYI)

:wubbie: :hug:

Actually i'm way more physically demonstrative online than I am in person. I'll come clean about that now. the closest you'd get to a hug from me in RL would be a stiff toleration of your instigation of one. I'm working on that though. It doesn't mean I'm fake though cos in essence I'm being in fact more genuine here than in RL, cos here I hug people whenever I would WANT to in RL, but my physical inhibitions would hold me back. Here I don't have to worry about someone touching me in parts of my body I hate, so I can hug with impunity and give away all that pent-up affection that I daren't express in RL!!

[ThatGirl]

Do you do the one shoulder pat with the slightly extended chin with as little contact as possible?

[substitute]

Do you do the one shoulder pat with the slightly extended chin with as little contact as possible?

Possibly, though I've never analyzed it before. I do quite a skillful 'hug evasion' move that makes it look like I'd just LOVE to hug you but damn, what a shame, I've got this thing in my hand that means I can't or there's this thing or person in the way so I can get away with blowing a kiss with a nose-wrinkled smile and a wink, you know the ones.

It's a real block for me, the hugging thing. Went through no end of personal sorta evolution to even get to a point where I wanted to, it's a real bitch to not be able to now for physical reasons I can't help (yet, but am working on).

edit - actually no, I don't pat. I read somewhere that patting is a dead giveaway of a fake hugger, and since my affection is actually genuine, it's just paranoias about my body that make me shy of hugging, I don't want to give someone a reason to think I don't genuinely like them when I do. If I don't, then I'll pat away :laugh:

[ThatGirl]

I hate it. I purposely show up to family occasions right when I know everyone is eating. Then I blame it on the traffic and say "No, its ok don't get up. Hello everyone. That looks good I am going to go grab some."

Strangers are likely to loose a limb.

[entropie]

xD appreciate that :)

closest thing to intimacy I get is like this:

YouTube - bugatti veyron top speed 407 km/h (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovNkwiHJCIA)

xD

[substitute]

but that's interesting, I'm wondering about how for some people now, being online actually allows them to be MORE genuine than in RL. Particularly those of us with intimacy issues who have difficulty expressing our real feelings in person...?

[nolla]

I guess you could split the question to:

1) How many of the unhealthy people see themselves unhealthy?

2) How many of them have any motivation to do something about it?

3) How many of them find MBTI interesting?

Then you rule out almost all the S people since they don't show up in the net that much. I don't know where that takes us... Umm...

But I think this is a nice way to put it:

I think it attracts people who would like to become saner.

Count me in. I think that if you want to be healthy, you will, it just takes some time. So there should be more healthy people around here... :yes:

[nolla]

but that's interesting, I'm wondering about how for some people now, being online actually allows them to be MORE genuine than in RL. Particularly those of us with intimacy issues who have difficulty expressing our real feelings in person...?

You know, I usually wouldn't call myself very inhibited, but I read your post a few pages up on how you socialize with your online friends, and I felt like that's a whole different world...

[substitute]

You know, I usually wouldn't call myself very inhibited, but I read your post a few pages up on how you socialize with your online friends, and I felt like that's a whole different world...

don't suppose you'd care to elaborate?

[nolla]

don't suppose you'd care to elaborate?

Well, you say you consider that you might meet people who you talk to online and actually do meet a lot of them. I don't see myself considering meeting someone like that. RL, it's different since I see the person and the attitudes and such, so I tend to trust to almost anyone (if they dont seem weird or angry or something). Online I don't trust to people the same way. I kinda trust the anonymity here. I can say things I normally wouldn't, but I haven't thought about meeting anyone, or considering everyone a potential friend.

It is these two categories. The one is good for certain stuff and I don't expect more of it. Reading your post made me think of how artificial the line between them is. I just hadnt thought about it.

[substitute]

Wow, far out. Yeah, another world! :huh:

[entropie]

I make no difference between RL and chat. There is that great difference given through the lack of all interpersonal things but I try to compensate.

I am here to understand the MBTI better, because I am not a psychic and not to inclined with medical matters.

There are quite a few people here, I have grown to like. Hardly know someone I can say I dislike in this forum.

The main flaw of MBTI is that categorizing thing. It is not illogical that you can characterize people. But doing so, puts em down. It can when done to hard, destroy the very nature of an overall sane human being from the start.

There is input granted on the forums. Due to there are only 4 functions, you can relate nearly every input to yourself. Input is subjective. And it is drawn from sources beyond ones own comprehension.

I like to chat. Then chat develops. After chat has developed, a possible point comes when you can dig deeper into some things. And if even that third step is crossed, then everything is possible.

But I do not give my heart away tto just anyone.

[nolla]

Well, to me it just isn't what I do. I guess it creeps me that I don't know really ANYTHING about the person. When I look at people on the street I see a lot more stuff that says to me something about the person than the stuff I can get through just text.

[entropie]

agreed

[substitute]

agreed but with reservations - people can often be wrong in their judgement of another person's character. Just because you THINK you can see things about a person when you meet them face to face, doesn't mean you're necessarily right, just like the things you think you learn about a person through the internet aren't necessarily wrong just because you've no physical cues to back it up.

take my mom for example, who is happy to let someone move into her house as a lodger on the basis that when she meets them, they 'seem nice'. Yet she's an appalling judge of character, and has been taken in so many times it's not funny, by someone who's clean and tidy, well-spoken and polite and composed generally in person, and later turned out to be an asshole (wife beater in fact, on two counts - not beaten her I mean, but their own wives that they'd recently left). She'd be much better off IMO, interviewing these people online first so that she can get an idea of their personality without that 'nice appearance' to fool her.

a person's words and behaviour over a longer period of time in an online community can tell you more, and be more reliable (cos it's there in black and white and can't be glossed over or pretended it was otherwise later, like verbal communications), a greater sample if you will, than that intuitive once-over that we NP's are prone to relying too much on sometimes, IMO. And worse, people whose Ne isn't even very good :laugh:

[cascademn]

I think most people who are drawn to personality/psychology stuff, and specifically forums, are those who have felt 'different' enough growing up, or have had issues relating with and communicating with others, that they have looked into possible reasons why. So I think everyone on some level has or has had issues with dealing with some element of the real world and real-world interaction. Pick an element, any element. :-) I think otherwise most of us wouldn't be on here and we'd all be living completely in the real-world, doing tangible things with real people and accomplishing things 'out there'. I know I'm one of the only one of my friends who does stuff like internet foruming (and most of my friends are N's, so it's not an N-specific thing..well duh, obviously, since we have S's on this forum!! :-) - and I think there's a reason for that.

To be honest I think I've been drawn to internet forums over the years mostly because of social anxiety -- it's simply easier. But also, for me, I think it's in a sense an excuse - and it's one reason I try to minimize my time on here. I'll hop on the non-PC wagon and say I've thought off and on that a site such as this would tend to retain a much higher % of those with personality disorders than would be found in a non-net/non-personality-interest-specific sampling.

[Jeffster]

I dunno casca, I think I was drawn to it very coincidentally. I wasn't really looking for communication tips. But now that I've read all this stuff, when i get the opportunity to introduce the whole concept to people, and hit them with the real life application of it for real people they know or celebrities or athletes or whatever, its a frickin RUSH, I'm all fired up I'm like opening people's minds up and stuff. It's awesome, my body temp is rising just thinking about it! :blush:

[cascademn]

I dunno casca, I think I was drawn to it very coincidentally. I wasn't really looking for communication tips. But now that I've read all this stuff, when i get the opportunity to introduce the whole concept to people, and hit them with the real life application of it for real people they know or celebrities or athletes or whatever, its a frickin RUSH, I'm all fired up I'm like opening people's minds up and stuff. It's awesome, my body temp is rising just thinking about it! :blush:

Yeah, I'm not saying it applies to everyone!! And I agree it's kinda fun to segue the topic into the real world - I've done it myself, and people can respond to it pretty well!

But I still stand by some of my general statements... ;)

[nolla]

Just because you THINK you can see things about a person when you meet them face to face, doesn't mean you're necessarily right, just like the things you think you learn about a person through the internet aren't necessarily wrong just because you've no physical cues to back it up.

Yeah, you are right, but it does really affect my trust in the person, so it is very real difference to me. For example, If I had met you in person somewhere and though you are nice enough, you could be around here and call if you need a place to crash, and this would be based on few hours of us hanging out. You get a sofa and I will sleep tight. So that's me trusting some stranger who I met at some lets-get-drunk-and-throw-up-a-lot festival. It'd be a whole different case if I only know your name online...


a person's words and behaviour over a longer period of time in an online community can tell you more, and be more reliable (cos it's there in black and white and can't be glossed over or pretended it was otherwise later, like verbal communications), a greater sample if you will, than that intuitive once-over that we NP's are prone to relying too much on sometimes, IMO. And worse, people whose Ne isn't even very good :laugh:

:) This is so not me... I guess I pay a lot of attention into the observing. I don't see myself going through threads for clues into someones lies.

[Jeffster]

Yeah, I'm not saying it applies to everyone!! And I agree it's kinda fun to segue the topic into the real world - I've done it myself, and people can respond to it pretty well!

But I still stand by some of my general statements... ;)

Hey, rock on. Don't just stand by 'em, point to em with both hands and say "YEAH!!" :nice:

[nolla]

I dunno casca, I think I was drawn to it very coincidentally. I wasn't really looking for communication tips. But now that I've read all this stuff, when i get the opportunity to introduce the whole concept to people, and hit them with the real life application of it for real people they know or celebrities or athletes or whatever, its a frickin RUSH, I'm all fired up I'm like opening people's minds up and stuff. It's awesome, my body temp is rising just thinking about it! :blush:

Yeah, I remember when I was going on about self-actualization (they don't teach it around here, have to order the book from U.S.) Its nice to get people so hyped about self-improvement :smile:

[substitute]

:) This is so not me... I guess I pay a lot of attention into the observing. I don't see myself going through threads for clues into someones lies.

well no, I don't either!! I just mean that over a period of time you get to know someone and any inconsistencies in their behaviour start to show up, you don't have to be looking for them.

By the way I also put up strangers in my house too and I base the trust on my intuitive grasp of their character too. But my criteria are very different from my mom's (ESFJ) and yet she's been conned and tricked many times and I've never had any serious problems. I mean I've put up bums and alcoholics and drug dealers in my house that she was horrified about, certain they'd axe murder the kids in the night or something but I was totally confident they could be trusted, these particular individuals, and I was vindicated every time. And yet she goes through agencies and gets references and looks at resumes and interviews and all that malarky, and yet has a track record of about 70% lemons!!

I think sometimes people focus on obvious criteria that aren't necessarily as helpful as they think they are - things like always telling the truth about stuff like your name, your background or whatever or looking you in the eye - I don't think these things tell you whether a person will physically harm you or not, or whether they'll steal from you or not, or gradually manipulate you like a psychopath or whatever. They just tell you whether they're easy to understand or not. A person not being easy to understand doesn't make them a bad person in my book. I'm willing to put in the effort to understand a person... some people are happier to write off 'complicated' people as dishonest somehow because well, maybe they don't see why they should make the effort to understand why a person might feel the need to hide parts of themselves.

So many of the people I've met who've been written off by society as being untrustworthy have turned out to be the best, most supportive and sincere friends I've had... I've learned not to base my trust on conventional 'checklists'.

I guess we all pick the risks we're willing to live with and go with it :)

[entropie]

agreed but with reservations - people can often be wrong in their judgement of another person's character. Just because you THINK you can see things about a person when you meet them face to face, doesn't mean you're necessarily right, just like the things you think you learn about a person through the internet aren't necessarily wrong just because you've no physical cues to back it up.

If I am allowed to make a asumption at this point, I think you do think like I think, but I thought this way some time ago.

I definitely understand the point that it is important to show people the fine line of conversation. That means to bring them near that you can talk about anything, as long as they try to speak your language until some very easy reachable point. That means that they show, they respect you and when you speak to them that they respect your feelings to some extent and after that the conversation can become really nasty in all sorts of intellectual ways, it was just important for you to know, they do respect you.

There is the other thing, you see something is going wrong and you want to share your view with other people. But they cant grasp what you are talking about. The thing is they do grasp it sometimes, but you are not satisfied. You need them to know what you FEEL.

----

Like 5 years ago or so I was that real bad gothic. Not emo, we gothics used knives to kill other people, not ourselves. :) I was trapped in a constant wish to make anyone understand what I think. Cause this is what ENTP's do. We make other people believe.

Imagine that ability. Not working right. You want to show other people just this little tap on the back what makes them see that their partner in conversation has just the same feelings as they do. Why would you do that ? Why would you try to change someone ?

Why do you have the idea of turning anyone towards the mysery that you are facing.

Over the years I eventually came to recognize the fact that in most times, I made a problem, it was me having problems. Today I cant tell, I am free of problems, but my behaviour in society has grown more adult. I have accepted the fact that there are different worlds out there and I have started to point my intrests into exploring them.

For, if you know the foreign world and if you speak its language, then you finally can relate to the things you really wanted to say.

[nolla]

I mean I've put up bums and alcoholics and drug dealers in my house that she was horrified about, certain they'd axe murder the kids in the night or something but I was totally confident they could be trusted, these particular individuals, and I was vindicated every time. And yet she goes through agencies and gets references and looks at resumes and interviews and all that malarky, and yet has a track record of about 70% lemons!!

So many of the people I've met who've been written off by society as being untrustworthy have turned out to be the best, most supportive and sincere friends I've had... I've learned not to base my trust on conventional 'checklists'.


I don't really "know" what is it that makes someone trustworthy in my books. I guess it is some feeling. Sometimes it is a feeling of coldness in their persona, sometimes I just dont like them. Its not like I have a formula for this...

[Buds of May]

...

:wubbie: :whistling: :9436:

[entropie]

THAT...

was...

....

I wont comment on this, to proud for that, I am out

[entropie]

You are SO out !!!

*turning the back towards bad of may*

[Buds of May]

Um, really? Just for coming on to you?

Damn.

[entropie]

You could post something about startrek.

[Buds of May]

Nah. I'll try de Mazarin.

[entropie]

ok, would have been nice though..

[Jeffster]

Hehehe... no you're right Jeffster, what you said before about the overthinking problem. I mean EVERYBODY fakes to some extent both in RL and online (and I solidly believe that it's no easier or harder to tell in either situation, whether somebody is), yes even self-righteous people who think they're the most genuinest thing in the universe, because everyone at some level lies to themselves. If we were all super conscious and self-aware Buddhas that were freed from self-delusion then the Internet wouldn't have been invented cos we'd all be too busy meditating. :jesus:


One of my friends called me the most genuine guy she's ever met, actually. When I was younger, I might have "faked" but I really don't these days. What you see/hear is what you get with me, pretty much without fail. :)

[entropie]

I go to bed now, I am heavily drunk and impaired on any scale possible, but I am happy :).

Though things did not work out today as I hoped, I still managed to not lose my faith..face.

See you real soon, if you want

gn8

[Buds of May]

Night.

[Buds of May]

I think it attracts people who would like to become saner.

That's what I meant. To become saner. We pick up a system, gaze through it, put it down and look through another. Pick up the first, gaze through from another angle or pay attention for things we missed, put it down again. Pick up something else and look in the same direction or another. Maybe change the resolution of the image. Experiencing impressions and shades of impressions in the hope that, statistically, our view will become closer to reality, our minds sounder, and our interactions with life, wiser. This is one set of these systems.

Is this wrong? Maybe I don't even do this myself. I'm probably just here to procrastinate on something else.

[Little Linguist]

Wow, just....wow....:huh::doh::shock::blush:

I don't know if it's a sign of stupidity or hope that I just TOTALLY did not understand HALF of what is going on in this thread right now.....

....guess my N ain't strong enough for that....

...or maybe I'm just too tired because I stayed up til 2 a.m. talking to my long-lost sister last night.

(Yes I know I said I was an only child....It's a long story).

[Thursday]

Because this forum and its denizens are so accepting,
the atmosphere allows for people to be themselves

the people who need this the most are the crazies
look at me and The Three

[nolla]

Because this forum and its denizens are so accepting,
the atmosphere allows for people to be themselves

Where do you think that's coming from?

Ive been thinking that the difference with this place and others is that here your type tells people where to label you so you don't need to show people who you are. You see someone with the type in their profile and you remember some friend of yours with the same type. It helps give some flesh on the bones.

[Hmm]

I think there are crazy people everywhere.

[Night]

Night.

Yes?

[substitute]

Nah. I'll try de Mazarin.

Ha! Another one with an ENTP fetish then?

I wouldn't have turned my back, I was just in bed. It was like, 5am or something.

nolla - I don't plan it either, that's why we're P's - we don't have agendas!! :) That was just Ti back-engineering what Ne does automatically.

Jeffster - I didn't mean to suggest that you fake, I'm sure you don't. I've been called 'the most sincere person' someone's met too, many times. And yet looking back I can often see that sometimes I've faked even when someone was calling me genuine, I was faking in some respect though not consciously. What I mean is that we lie to ourselves subconsciously without even realizing it or meaning to, all the time. That's part of growing up I think, when we look back at times of our lives and realize that what we thought we wanted, or meant, or were trying to do, what we told ourselves we were doing, wasn't actually the case, we were working by the evil proddings and battlings of the id and ego. But this doesn't in my book, make a person insincere, it just makes them human. What I mean is that all any of us can do is be as genuine as we can, but from time to time all of us can't help being fooled by our egos and only like, Zen masters or something manage to avoid that completely (though one really wise Buddhist guy I know who's in his 80's admits to still falling for the ego sometimes).

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Nah. I'll try de Mazarin.

???

[Night]

Oh - was it on the issue of insincerity that my name was mentioned?

You should meet me in real life.

[Jen]

everyone is crazy it's just that some of us are good an disguising it. the rest of you are just bad disguiser's. For shame! :azdaja:

[Little Linguist]

The formal definition of "good crazy":

An asinine ass rat on the back of a Cracker Jack box...

...who - due to his/her unconventional way of thinking, feeling, analyzing, or behaving - makes you feel like calling the doctors right away; however, they somehow make you giggle, laugh, and smile inside because in spite of their unconventionality - or rather because of it - they make you stand in awe of their creativity and imagination. Nonetheless you still have to stand there, scratch your head, and have a combination of the following expressions on your face:
:huh::shock::happy2:

[toonia]

So do you think mentally ill people are more likely to be attracted to MBTI[c]? If so why?
People who are mentally ill or even just emotionally unbalanced may be more likely to spend lots of time online. Being online provides social interactions for people who feel isolated in some way. My impression is that the percentage of people with issues is higher online than you would find in a workplace for example, where consistent performance is a requirement for being there. There are a lot of people with issues in society, so I'm not certain how much higher it is in online communities than the norm, but it could be a bit higher. I have also noticed (myself included) that people often spend more time online when going through a difficult period in their life when they feel lonely or cut-off or just dealing with things that go beyond their support network irl.

[Haphazard]

Hmm.

*looks at postcount*

Oops.

[Thursday]

Where do you think that's coming from?

Ive been thinking that the difference with this place and others is that here your type tells people where to label you so you don't need to show people who you are. You see someone with the type in their profile and you remember some friend of yours with the same type. It helps give some flesh on the bones.

Nah
in other places, the type is in the signature
but if you feel or experience something i don't
go right ahead

[entropie]

hahaha, I just snookered the hexagon game computer, well that is crazy xD

[InaF3157]

:whistling:

I see MAD people.

[Anja]

I see anger and madness everywhere I go.

"It's the world gone crazy cotillion."

Chesler, Laing, Szasz said it well. Madness is a reasonable reaction to an unreasonable situation.

Just stroll through your local Walmart and listen. . .

(Oops. I think that biases the sample.)

[InaF3157]

Sometimes it's easy to miss the madness.
I don't have a local Walmart. :sadbanana: Please say more on how it biases the sample.

[whatever]

Just stroll through your local Walmart and listen. . .

(Oops. I think that biases the sample.)

:rofl1: *pictures moms smacking thier kids around*

Me? Frequently described by psychiatrists as being in an almost continual hypomanic state with an occasional dip into mild depression (occasional as in once every couple of years :doh:).... there's worse states to be in I suppose! :D

it would make sense that perhaps more disturbed people would be here though- psychological problems lead to an interest in psychology and this would be an offshoot I'd suppose :thinking:

[Anja]

Sometimes it's easy to miss the madness.
I don't have a local Walmart. :sadbanana: Please say more on how it biases the sample.

Wow! A human who has lived without that desecration of economic necessity. Kewl.

Oh, it's just sorta a joke, IF. The oppressed and downtrodden fill the aisles. So do middle class people who want to save time and bucks. All the while they are supporting a monolith of a big box store whose values are a piece of what is causing the problem.

Yeah, whatever. I've seen more child abuse in Walmart than I've cared to witness. Sigh.

[Anja]

:rofl1: *pictures moms smacking thier kids around*

Me? Frequently described by psychiatrists as being in an almost continual hypomanic state with an occasional dip into mild depression (occasional as in once every couple of years :doh:).... there's worse states to be in I suppose! :D

it would make sense that perhaps more disturbed people would be here though- psychological problems lead to an interest in psychology and this would be an offshoot I'd suppose :thinking:

A tad of hypomania is not a bad place to dwell. It looks quite attractive on you!

[InaF3157]

Ah. TY.

Chesler, Laing, Szasz said it well. Madness is a reasonable reaction to an unreasonable situation.

So what label do they give unreasonable reactions to reasonable situations?

[Anja]

I dunno. If they did I can't remember. Common sense? Inevitability? Hee.

I'll address the OP for a sec.

Since I stopped working outside of my home regularly I have waaaaay too much time to hang out on the puter and I indulge myself.

I have a RL also but enjoy the convenience of communication by machine. Gives my impulsive self a moment to think before put my foot in my mouth. Heh. Looks better that way when your sox match.

So. My observation has been that there are many people in my computer who are experiencing some sort of limitation in their lives. It may be as simple as a lack of motivation to do whatever they're avoiding in RL. Or it may be a physical handicap which hampers their ability to get out and do their chatting in RL.

Here we are certainly a collective bunch of delightful characters. I think more so than some of my other forums. And there is a definite generosity of spirit here in self-disclosure that I don't see elsewhere except as it applies to the particular forum topic.

I'm here for the same reasons that I show up in RL. To learn more, out of curiousity, to work on creating and sustaining a mental and emotional balance in my life.

[ygolo]

I think there is a high level of neurosis on the forum, but not psychosis.

Many of us are sick, but not crazy.

That is a rather important distinction.

[Synarch]

I think there is a high level of neurosis on the forum, but not psychosis.

Many of us are sick, but not crazy.

That is a rather important distinction.

On a related note, I reject medical definitions for mental states, for the most part. They're just not helpful to most people and labeling a mental state can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Do you know anyone entirely happy, self-actualized, and living the life they want? The common dimension is that they probably don't spend a lot of time introspecting.

[mlittrell]

/thread please

[niffer]

I think that MBTI may attract people who are different or eccentric. I will not debate about whether these people would be labeled crazy or not. I suppose everyone is different, but some of us are more different than others.

If some one is average or normal, they probably never stop to think: "Why am I am normal?" or "Why am I fortunate enough not to struggle with fitting in?"

I can't speak for everyone, but I spend lots of time thinking things like "Why am I different?" "Why is it my brain doesn't seem to function the way most people's do?" "Why is it so hard for me to fit in?" "Is this a mental problem or just a difference?" I imagine it was this way for other people who are different as well, or at least some of them. Some people act like I made a deliberate effort to be different, like this was a choice I made. It never felt like a choice to me. It just felt like being myself.

I have looked at various material - psychology, pop psychology, self help and New Age - to try to answer some of my questions. Of all the different material I look at the best sources to answer my questions have been personality typing. It gives me answers: I am different because I am a rare type. My brain doesn't function the same as most people's because I am not the same type as most people. It is hard to fit in because I am a different type then most people. It isn't a mental problem, it's just a different type.

I admit, I have some eccentricities that are not accounted for by type, but it does account for many of them. Difficulty expressing feelings, day dream quite a bit, percieved as not social enough, difficulty putting ideas in words - that is just a "normal" INTJ.

Ilah

I agree.

It seems to me that most of us have a "normal switch" we turn on for convenience during most of our daily activities.

IRL I only know of one person that considers me to be seriously mental (he isn't a friend of mine). Most other people think just think I'm slightly to extremely odd. But most people are odd in their own way, so this doesn't have an effect on anyone. Plus, I'm quite high up on the "social ladder" if one exists in my community, and I believe I live a very well-rounded and socially acceptable/respectable lifestyle. I am very aware that the way I think and do things are often very much different from most others, but this doesn't seem to be an issue.

Let's be realistic. Most people I know, even most of my closest friends- if they saw the things we were talking about on here and the way we talked about them, they be all "wtf". I know some people that would definitely be like "You're..a weird kid. You're fucked up." if they knew, but mostly because of the fact that I'm communicating with people online.

[Jack Flak]

Every N I've ever heard of could probably be officially diagnosed with a mental illness. Probably every SP and ISxJ too. ESxJs are gods among men when it comes to livin' f'n proper, I guess.

[niffer]

^ Come to think of it, I find that plausible as well.

[Santtu]

I found this site back in summer..autumn 2007 when I was recovering from burnout, and had recovered from depression. Seeking ways to understand myself, find my "true" personality and perhaps "cure" myself were the motivations to enter the site.

I was reluctantly accepting to the possibility of other, severe mental disorder during my stay in here and before. Burnout & depression recurred in autumn 2007, and the suggestions of laymen - both members and people from RL - succeeded to unnerve me enough to seek help, during which the possibility of other health issues were removed.

I had recovered fully by the autumn 2008, and actually thought, "mission accomplished, move on". I thought, I've got much to do, and with the psychological issues having being examined enough and resolved, my job was in the RL. Mostly working my ass off, I gathered.

I have a rather low view of laymen pushing their diagnoses at the moment, tho I'm glad they pushed me to examine the issues. One friend of mine, for example, currently relies on the diagnosis of a medically unqualified "healer" for her step father's Alzheimer's disease.

[Wild horses]

I think that the mentally unbalanced often go on a search for something deeper. They view the world from a different perspective and so the average secular explanation of reality won't quite cut it for them.

There is alot of insanity in my family and they are usually the people who subscribe most strongly to a specific belief system; one is a hardcore astrology person, several are devout christians and then there are a few into spirituality and personality profiling (mediums and the like) and often hang around graveyards.

[wolfy]

Every N I've ever heard of could probably be officially diagnosed with a mental illness. Probably every SP and ISxJ too. ESxJs are gods among men when it comes to livin' f'n proper, I guess.

I was thinking that today.

I think everybody's crazy. What's sanity? :shock:

[Airius]

I was thinking that today.

I think everybody's crazy. What's sanity? :shock:

Sanity? Never heard of it. :banana2: