Wanting people to like you (need advice)

[Edahn]

So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.

[Night]

It sounds like a root fear of failure.

Social rejection and/or feeling like an outcast isn't always a bad thing. People don't reject as quickly as you presume. Most just want to fit-in.

Obsessive/Compulsive behaviors probably coincide. A fear of being "ugly" or physically maladroit, too.

As I said earlier, you aren't your anxiety. Perfectionism and fear are synonyms. Try to relax your personal expectations. I'd recommend Tonglen, but you're presently studying Buddhist philosophy, anyway.


We aren't what we fear, Edahn.

[Edahn]

It sounds like a root fear of failure.

Social rejection and/or feeling like an outcast isn't always a bad thing. People don't reject as quickly as you presume. Most just want to fit-in.

Obsessive/Compulsive behaviors probably coincide. A fear of being "ugly" or physically maladroit, too.

As I said earlier, you aren't your anxiety. Perfectionism and fear are synonyms. Try to relax your personal expectations. I'd recommend Tonglen, but you're presently studying Buddhist philosophy, anyway.


We aren't what we fear, Edahn.

I just bought a book by Pema Chondron on Tonglen. Thanks Night.

[IrishStallion819]

It sounds like u have relatively "low" confidence level/selfesteem issues.... You fear the your not worthwhile/Out of someones league not feeling well when it comes to talking and it makes u second guess your initial "gut" reaction when wanting to confront someone socially....DUde first off u have to believe your worth while person, which I know its harder than me clearly stating it....You have to reflect of all the positive things about yourself and just have the attitude of like... " well if they don't like me for me, then screw them"....Look at the way the world is now....obviously peoples way of dealing with people isn't working and its getting worse....Lifes to short, seriously....For me, I have the same "issues" and I wrestle witht them everyday...Partially because i'm somewhat "self conscious" and alittle on the paranoid.."watching what everyone does" side of things. For me, being in a group of friends and than branching out that way is a huge tool thats worked for me....when people see u talking to other people and socializing.....it makes them want to talk to u and if u can find a common interest or make an interesting observation about them....that'll only lighten the load....but obviously I don't know u personaly and haven't observed your behaviors to clearing give u a specific "battleplan" but just do things that are gunna improve "you" and that'll give that content, worthwhile feeling...I wish u a successful fortune and hope you'll be able to pass on what u experience to others...

[Ivy]

I don't have any advice for you, I just want to say that I have this problem too. Even now, as I write this, I'm anticipating your positive reaction to me commiserating with you.

Bad psyche! Bad! Bad!

[disregard]

I'm curious.. maybe you have a tendency to not like people and to not value them, and you are projecting it onto others?

Because, I tend to like most people and value them for what they do offer and represent as an individual, and I don't have a (prominent) fear of being disliked or undervalued.

I'm thinking there is a line that can be drawn.

[bluebell]

I'm sleep deprived so this is likely to be garbled.

I do this too but I'm gradually getting over it. I tend to watch myself doing it, as in just observe that that's what I'm doing. At work, it's really not appropriate so I have to not follow my natural inclination, especially in difficult meetings. I watch how others act towards each other and realise it's not the end of the world if people dislike each other. All of that = gradually overcoming it.

[Edahn]

I don't have any advice for you, I just want to say that I have this problem too. Even now, as I write this, I'm anticipating your positive reaction to me commiserating with you.

Bad psyche! Bad! Bad!

Right. It's like an underlying feeling in everything that I do. There's this thought that I'm doing it for them, whether or not I actually am.

I'm curious.. maybe you have a tendency to not like people and to not value them, and you are projecting it onto others?

Because, I tend to like most people and value them for what they do offer and represent as an individual, and I don't have a (prominent) fear of being disliked or undervalued.

I'm thinking there is a line that can be drawn.

I notice it goes the other way. When I'm calm inside, I can stop all the judgmentalism that overruns my perception. I get this somewhat from my dad, who's a supersuper cynical attorney. I think it comes from a need to elevate one's self by pushing others down, again, to establish inner worth. But I'm not sure.

[disregard]

There's this thought that I'm doing it for them, whether or not I actually am.

I notice it goes the other way.

Can you expound on both of these?

What is the "it" you refer to...

and expound on your doing something for someone or not for them at all bit.

(my Ne isn't in tip-top shape, and I'm very interested)

[CaptainChick]

Being like that ironically makes you a shitty person, perhaps that fact could, or will get you to stop.

Nobody likes a brown-noser.

You might be so talented that when you shift, you do so without seeming affected, but if and when anyone detects that you are catering to their desires, surely they'll find your lack of sincerity questionable, to say the least.

Hmm, I think I kind of dealt with this when I was a child in elementary school, I read people quickly and modified myself to become something they would love, it often worked, and I think I did this because I got little to no attention at home.

Eh, but fuck being "well-liked".

And fuck being phony.

*shudders*

What to you value more, popularity or integrity?

[bluebell]

It's fear that underlies it for me. I know where it comes from and it's irrational, so it's more just getting used to the idea that not everyone needs to like me, and then the fear gradually drops.

[CaptainChick]

There's this thought that I'm doing it for them, whether or not I actually am..
Quit kidding yourself, no you are not.

[Edahn]

Can you expound on both of these?

What is the "it" you refer to...

Before I do that, let me ask a question. What do you think would make me unable to dislike someone?

It's fear that underlies it for me. I know where it comes from and it's irrational, so it's more just getting used to the idea that not everyone needs to like me, and then the fear gradually drops.

What's the underlying fear? Rejection-depression?

[disregard]

Before I do that, let me ask a question. What do you think would make me unable to dislike someone?

An affinity for mankind?

I'm not saying you shouldn't dislike people.. I'm a bit confused.. But go ahead with your reply. An interesting topic indeed.

[Edahn]

An affinity for mankind?

I'm not saying you shouldn't dislike people.. I'm a bit confused.. But go ahead with your reply. An interesting topic indeed.

:) Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

[CaptainChick]

What's the underlying fear? Rejection-depression?
Need for positive attention, i.e. affirmation and fear of rejection, those are the underlying motives I think, but then again, I am not you.

You would be doing yourself a disservice by attempting to think or believe that you are acting this way for the benefit of your audience.

I, at times, "contort" or compromise myself to make someone else feel good, but that is an entirely different "issue", one that I don't think you are dealing with here, and one that I don't witness you doing, at least here on the boards.

[CaptainChick]

I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right.
All I see when I read this is someone who fears themself, their true being and intentions, someone who has an intense fear of being "found out", i.e. "what if the world knew, what if he or she knew, what I *really* thought or felt, how things *really* are?" Perhaps your *nature* is not a light or friendly one, perhaps you have a natural propensity to be mean, and you are hyper-conscious of this fact. Perhaps you are so afraid or ashamed of this fact that you try your hardest to conceal its existence, negate it by acting in opposition to it.

I dunno, just my thoughts.

:/

[Ivy]

Edahn- would you characterize yourself as a child as a "pleaser?" Meaning, did you really do your best to make authority figures proud of you? I did- not because they put undue pressure on me, because they didn't, but because I admired them and wanted them to admire me back.

CC, I don't really think (if it's anything like my problem, at least) that this is about "brown-nosing." I don't see Edahn as a brown-noser, in fact if he senses he needs to be critical to be admired, he'll do that (as will I).

[Night]

I don't see Edahn as a brown-noser, in fact if he senses he needs to be critical to be admired, he'll do that (as will I).

This is an important point.

[CaptainChick]

"To be admired"

Yes, an important point, indeed.

[disregard]

What's the point of being liked if you aren't liked for your authentic self?

[CaptainChick]

What's the point of being liked if you aren't liked for your authentic self?
WORD.

[disregard]

I know the point: power, admiration, praise, attention, envy....

But that's such a hollow and fleeting satisfaction, isn't it?

[Edahn]

All I see when I read this is someone who fears themself, their true being and intentions, someone who has an intense fear of being "found out", i.e. "what if the world knew, what if he or she knew, what I *really* thought or felt, how things *really* are?" Perhaps your *nature* is not a light or friendly one, perhaps you have a natural propensity to be mean, and you are hyper-conscious of this fact. Perhaps you are so afraid or ashamed of this fact that you try your hardest to conceal its existence, negate it by acting in opposition to it.

I dunno, just my thoughts.

:/

I can say with confidence that my true nature is to be accepting and empathic. I'm sure there are times when I naturally don't feel that, but the meanness is, like Ivy said, a reaction to something else. It's possible that I'm intolerant of that meanness in front of certain people (whereas here on a forum, it's easier to express because there's --

Hm. Maybe it's that I don't want to be rejected once people know me. On a internet forum it's easier because there's no less intimacy. If people reject me on a site that I have 4 posts at, I couldn't give a shit because they're not really rejecting me; they don't know me. But in RL, or even on this site where I've put in a lot of time, it's a little bit more serious and personal. Still though, I don't see why I wouldn't let myself think certain thoughts about those people. Why's it bad?

The lack of authenticity is accurate, CC, but it goes deeper than that, I think.

Edahn- would you characterize yourself as a child as a "pleaser?" Meaning, did you really do your best to make authority figures proud of you? I did- not because they put undue pressure on me, because they didn't, but because I admired them and wanted them to admire me back.

Yeah, I would probably say I was with school and grades. I was always liked by my teachers too.

[bluebell]

What's the underlying fear? Rejection-depression?

No, fear of being harmed/fear of death. I know where it comes from and I know it's irrational, so I try not to give into it. Fear of rejection seems easier to overcome than fear of death, from my perspective. Is there anything underneath the fear of rejection for you?

This reaction is strongest for me when people I like and admire and respect dislike me. If I don't like someone, I don't really mind if they don't like me in return (although, if I'm going to be honest, that does sometimes sting a bit - again, irrational).

What's the point of being liked if you aren't liked for your authentic self?

I twist myself up in knots with that quite often. The fear of being disliked is quite strong for me because it's tied up with fear of death. Survival >> being authentic (have a look at Maslow's list of needs for example).

[Uberfuhrer]

What's the point of being liked if you aren't liked for your authentic self?

Most people are uninteresting and know that about themselves, so they have no choice but to put on a facade.

[Edahn]

No, fear of being harmed/fear of death. I know where it comes from and I know it's irrational, so I try not to give into it. Fear of rejection seems easier to overcome than fear of death, from my perspective. Is there anything underneath the fear of rejection for you?

I'm not 100% sure. It might just be a fear that I'm worthless, or a fear of feeling worthless and being sad. Again, not sure. I wonder if people who don't have this problem are less sensitive, or know deep down that they are valuable, or both. Or something else.

It's easy to justify why people are valuable intellectually (or never valuable), but to let it sink deep down is trickier. I think I've always felt value only vicariously through others. Like Ivy was saying about pleasing others.

[bluebell]

I'm not 100% sure. It might just be a fear that I'm worthless, or a fear of feeling worthless and being sad. Again, not sure. I wonder if people who don't have this problem are less sensitive, or know deep down that they are valuable, or both. Or something else.

This is one way I've looked at it for me. If someone important to you disliked you and rejected you - what does that mean/imply for you? (hope I've articulated it well enough, I are not artikulate today)

[Edahn]

This is one way I've looked at it for me. If someone important to you disliked you and rejected you - what does that mean/imply for you? (hope I've articulated it well enough, I are not artikulate today)

I would feel crushed. I can't say what I'd be thinking at that moment, but I'd feel an overwhelming feeling of aloneness and deep hurt.

[disregard]

I twist myself up in knots with that quite often. The fear of being disliked is quite strong for me because it's tied up with fear of death. Survival >> being authentic (have a look at Maslow's list of needs for example).

Ah... yes. I suppose it is very necessary to put on a face if you want to survive. I'm young and without responsibilities, so I forget.. but Edahn is at the age where he has a career, needs to establish and keep a network of contacts, needs to marry, etc, so he cannot simply risk being himself, as I can. He has to "be acceptable" in order to secure the future he desires.

Although, there must be a happy medium.

The question is, is he being too inauthentic to be content with himself? Seems that would be the case.

[digesthisickness]

But in RL, or even on this site where I've put in a lot of time, it's a little bit more serious and personal. Still though, I don't see why I wouldn't let myself think certain thoughts about those people. Why's it bad?

maybe because if you have to admit that you were wrong about them then that would negate the feedback you'd felt you'd gotten from them?

maybe because if you're wrong about them, then you may have read them wrong regarding other things too, like how they see you, and/or would have to admit you may not really know how they feel about you?

[disregard]

I would feel crushed. I can't say what I'd be thinking at that moment, but I'd feel an overwhelming feeling of aloneness and deep hurt.

I've recently been there, and let me be living proof that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[Ivy]

Do you think this is why you get skittish when relationships get a bit more serious? Like you don't want to let yourself admire someone enough romantically that they have your reigns and could make you feel that aloneness and deep hurt at their whim?

[bluebell]

I would feel crushed. I can't say what I'd be thinking at that moment, but I'd feel an overwhelming feeling of aloneness and deep hurt.

And do you know what's under that? Like, why it makes you feel alone? I've found a bunch of irrational beliefs under my various phobias. Once I named them and saw how irrational they were, I made more progress. Dunno if it's the same for you or not.

[CaptainChick]

I know the point: power, admiration, praise, attention, envy....

But that's such a hollow and fleeting satisfaction, isn't it?
Can I get a witness?!?!?

;)

Amen to that.

I can say with confidence that my true nature is to be accepting and empathic. I'm sure there are times when I naturally don't feel that, but the meanness is, like Ivy said, a reaction to something else. It's possible that I'm intolerant of that meanness in front of certain people (whereas here on a forum, it's easier to express because there's --
Those with truly accepting and empathic natures do not feel the need to please by putting on a show, those with truly accepting and empathic natures accept themselves, fully and wholly as imperfect "perfect" human beings, and they accept others as imperfect "perfect" human beings as well.

I think that being accepting and empathic, is *part* of your true nature, a *part* that given enough time, self-awareness, acceptance can/will eventually grow.

Being intolerant is *not* being accepting, and it is *not* being empathic. When we are being accepting and empathic, we are being *understanding* of another person, of why they are who they are, and why they do what they do.

Hm. Maybe it's that I don't want to be rejected once people know me. On a internet forum it's easier because there's no less intimacy. If people reject me on a site that I have 4 posts at, I couldn't give a shit because they're not really rejecting me; they don't know me. But in RL, or even on this site where I've put in a lot of time, it's a little bit more serious and personal.This is quite common. Being dumped after a month, hurts, but being dumped after a year, really leaves a lasting sting. ;) People should not take things sooooo personally, (yeah, easier said than done, I know), but really. When a relationship doesn't work out between two people all that means is that these two particular people don't work well together, that's it, nothing more, no one is at "fault", the two puzzle pieces just *don't* naturally fit together.

Still though, I don't see why I wouldn't let myself think certain thoughts about those people. Why's it bad?
It sounds like you are restricting yourself, and restricting your true nature.

The lack of authenticity is accurate, CC, but it goes deeper than that, I think.First you must find your authentic self, the more authentic you become, the less pretense you will be willing or able to show.

Yeah, I would probably say I was with school and grades. I was always liked by my teachers too.
I was like this too.

How many siblings do you have? Did your parents give you enough positive attention/affection/affirmation?

[Edahn]

maybe because if you have to admit that you were wrong about them then that would negate the feedback you'd felt you'd gotten from them?

maybe because if you're wrong about them, then you may have read them wrong regarding other things too, like how they see you, and/or would have to admit you may not really know how they feel about you?

No, but the last line is correct and made me think that maybe this is what's happening:

Everything's going smooth.
I start to feel like something is wrong.
Instead of trusting that it's the other person, I blame myself for not being easy-going or in the moment, or calm.
I try to hide that feeling to get back into smooth sailing, but ultimately can't because I've already started playing the suppression game.

HMMMMMMMM.

Do you think this is why you get skittish when relationships get a bit more serious? Like you don't want to let yourself admire someone enough romantically that they have your reigns and could make you feel that aloneness and deep hurt at their whim?

Almost. I think they're connected, but in the way I said above... that once I get really into someone..

Fuck. I gotta think about this stuff a little bit. I think what I said above is what's happening. I always blame myself and think something's wrong with me. So I try to suppress it all. Because I identify it as unnatural and inferior. So when I'm in a relationship, same shit happens. I got self-conscious, and then turn on myself, thinking I'm fucked up and need to fix something. That's anxiety, and it makes me CRAZY. That doesn't happen outside of a close relationship. Why. Because.... BECAUSE... because I don't have this story that I do this over and over...

bb, that answers your question too, I think. I need to think about this a little more, but I think there's something there. The last part I'm not 100% sure about, but I think it's true. I have this story that "I get nervous around these people" so any discomfort is turned against ME, rather that looking outward to see what in my environment is making me feel that way.

And do you know what's under that? Like, why it makes you feel alone? I've found a bunch of irrational beliefs under my various phobias. Once I named them and saw how irrational they were, I made more progress. Dunno if it's the same for you or not.

[INTJMom]

So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.
There's a lot of different things that could be the cause for your behavior.
I would think most of it is - habits you learned as you were growing up,
for whatever reasons.

I don't know if you feel like you've already put your finger on the trouble,
but one thing you might want to check out is co-dependency.

CoDA World Fellowship welcomes you (http://www.codependents.org/foundation-docs-patterns.php)

Codependency & Recovery from codependent relationships (http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/codependency.htm)

[Geoff]

So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.

It's a little oblique, but it might help to remember that people will like you for who you are if you relax and are yourself. I can't say I have a cure for you - as with everything psyche related it has to come from yourself - but perhaps you need not try so hard. So, just be yourself. You'd be surprised.

I don't suffer with this, but I've seen it. Validation through others as a means of coping with the enormity.

[evan]

So I have this problem. I hate hate hate disappointing people. I want them to like me and value me and this affects my authenticity and makes me hyperconscious of my surroundings. I monitor myself for thoughts that could lead to lead to disappointment or a rupture in the relationship, and monitor my surroundings for threats to the relationship. I don't even like thinking bad or disappointing thoughts about people I'm "supposed" to like. I'm not sure why I do that, or whether it's even connected. I can't see the connection if there is one. This doesn't just apply to people I know or care about, but strangers. Even a therapist I saw a few times a couple years ago, where I wanted to be an ideal patient, making breakthroughs left and right. It's a big deal in all of my relationships, especially the intimate ones. What's the connection? Am I just trying to avoid them not liking me?

Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.

i could literally say every word of your first paragraph and be telling the truth.

it probably has to do with something in your childhood -- for me, i overcompensate for not getting enough positive reinforcement as a child. i learned to navigate my relationships in a strategic way (with the goal of avoiding disappointing others) very early on.

i don't know if it's something i'll ever be able to fully turn off.

i think it actually boils down to a feeling that everyone is more fragile than you are -- which maybe suggests something about your childhood? you accept the emotional reactions of others but don't accept your own. you think of yourself as separate from everyone -- they're allowed to have feelings and you aren't.

it's at least that way for me, and all i know is that i have to learn to value my own feelings more and stop thinking of myself as such a robot.

anyway, i'm sure you've thought of all this.

[heart]

To be rejected or hurt is to be in the game of life.

[evan]

To be rejected or hurt is to be in the game of life.

it's crazy, but there are literally zero people i know that dislike me (and know me).

that's how hard i try.

[toonia]

There may be a correlation between understanding and acceptance of others. People reject and fear what they do not understand. I have most often experienced rejection from those whose picture of me seemed most distorted into some caricature of fear they have about people. A fear of rejection can be a fear of misunderstanding or being misunderstood.

I have feared rejection and being misunderstood. Perhaps this is a reason i have been driven to listen to people that were typically rejected by the norm. It is a curiosity to me why people are rejected. I have also noticed that many people fear rejection. I have encountered a number of people who fear my rejection and i always feel badly and wonder if i need to find a way to communicate more acceptance. I feel frustrated and disappointed each time that happens. I have found that oftentimes people will reject to the same extent they assume i have rejected (i think this applies in general terms to human interactions)

There are people i don't trust and people who drain my energy more quickly than others, but i can't say that i actually dislike anyone (including people who have violated me or others). With extreme cases I don't embrace or reject, but keep a safe distance. What I fear is when someone rejects me out of the blue - when I can't create a rationale for why they seem to have such a moment of disdain for me. That frightens me because it seems to discount certain boundaries, and if I can't reason through why, then it feels really out of hand like they could *really* hate me intensely for no explicable reason. For me the fear is a boundary issue and so i tend to withdraw from such a person although i still tend to like them. I end up finding people confusing and wish i could understand more because even if it doesn't excuse hateful behavior, it at least allows me to make sense of their experience and find a way to connect or share in it.

[disregard]

it's crazy, but there are literally zero people i know that dislike me (and know me).

that's how hard i try.

You just said "and know you", which implies that you weren't having to try to be anything in particular.. But then you say, "that's how hard I try".

Do any of these people that do not dislike you know the you that is not trying?

[htb]

A painful rejection or three may rid you of the fear if you focus on how you survived, and likely grew, perhaps standing up for something, in spite of each.

[evan]

You just said "and know you", which implies that you weren't having to try to be anything in particular.. But then you say, "that's how hard I try".

Do any of these people that do not dislike you know the you that is not trying?

there is no me that is not trying

[toonia]

there is no me that is not trying
How do you deal with people wanting conflicting things from you? That seems to be a core issue in this - anything a person does will make at least someone like them and another person dislike them. The frustration of that can be a first step to letting go of trying to please them all. Sometimes it can be good for another person to be challenged - to do something they don't like. What do you think about that?

And i'm not discounting the strengths a person possesses who does prioritize acting in a way that pleases others. Many aspects of that mindset are worth appreciating.

[evan]

How do you deal with people wanting conflicting things from you?

i weigh loyalties/specifics, and then figure out a way to explain myself to both people. i try to reach the best compromise possible, but i end up factoring myself out too much.

That seems to be a core issue in this - anything a person does will make at least someone like them and another person dislike them.

that's why i play the observer role almost all of the time (except with really close friends) -- if you don't DO anything, you can't do something wrong. when i'm forced to choose a loyalty, i go out of my way to mend any hurt feelings (even if i don't care much about the person). it's a weird compulsion...

The frustration of that can be a first step to letting go of trying to please them all. Sometimes it can be good for another person to be challenged - to do something they don't like. What do you think about that?

i agree. i just have trouble being the one person that says no. i just have a really hard time when someone else gets emotionally involved in some way they want stuff to happen. i figure they want their way more than i want my way. i know i should factor my position in as highly as anyone else's, but i somehow think of myself as different from them all...

[01011010]

Repeat after me: I don't care if everyone likes me. It's a huge drain on my mental and emotional well being. Keep saying that like a mantra until you believe it.

Lather
Rinse
Repeat

[runvardh]

I only need 1 person (female) to like me, the rest can hate me if they really want to. Thankfully I at least have a few good friends though. :D

[bluebell]

that's why i play the observer role almost all of the time (except with really close friends) -- if you don't DO anything, you can't do something wrong. when i'm forced to choose a loyalty, i go out of my way to mend any hurt feelings (even if i don't care much about the person). it's a weird compulsion...

That's pretty much me. Weird seeing it in writing. I don't often do the mending of hurt feelings but the compulsion is there. I've managed to switch off most of the actions with this, but the thinking processes are still there, although much quieter than they used to be.

[Victor]

I went to an all boys boarding school where I wasn't liked at all. Fortunately I had an inner life and inner integrity that enabled me to survive.

Of course I love people to like me, but if they don't, I always have an inner place to retreat to.

And having an inner retreat enables me to start to see people as they really are. And I have found that each person is more interested in themselves than they are in me.

And in a way this frees me to be myself. For when I am not liked, I know it doesn't have much to do with me but is more a reflection of the person themselves.

And of course love loves love. So when you love with courage, you are often loved in return.

And not needing to be liked, but simply liking to be liked, enables you to step outside the taken-for-granted into ecstasy.

[disregard]

And I have found that each person is more interested in themselves than they are in me.

And in a way this frees me to be myself. For when I am not liked, I know it doesn't have much to do with me but is more a reflection of the person themselves.

And of course love loves love. So when you love with courage, you are often loved in return.

And not needing to be liked, but simlpy liking to be liked, enables you to step outside the taken-for-granted into ecstasy.

Wisdom overfloweth.

[Hmm]

I see nothing wrong with feeling vulnerable and insecure when we really like someone. Not that I think it's a walk in the park or anything, but I'm just saying that I think it's normal.

According to Freud, as a newborn baby, we only possess an "Id". The "Id" is base, selfish and narcissistic by necessity to aide in our survival at the time. But the "Id" is the antithesis of love imo (because to love is to give) and if we want to love and be loved in return we must detach from this Id. I think this is a slow and gradual process which takes many years, up to a lifetime, for us to detach and to fully love others. I see the process as a beautiful, complex, and often times frustrating dance that we must perform if we are to be truly evolved and enlightened. Just my opinion.

But, yes, it is disturbing and hard.

[LostInNerSpace]

Also, I'd like to know if anyone here has gotten over this, how they did that, and how they understand the need for admiration/valuation. I'm also open to hearing what people think about this, but please, no type talk (if you're going to address your comments to me only). If you want to share that you do this but have no advice, that's cool.

This is your Fe at work. Your feeling is about other people. You are always to some extent going to want other people to like you. Your self-esteem is low right now. It is an extremely common problem. You want to realize that people are different--should be obvious given your interest in this forum. You don't like everyone, therefore it should not surprise you that not everyone is going to like you. It's not reasonable or rational to expect everyone to like you. Also realize that sometimes a pretty girl might look away out of habit because she is contantly being gawked at and that might make her uncomfortable; I hear INFJs don't like that, so maybe she is an INFJ. That does not necessarily mean she does not like you--Everybody has their thing. Another thing to remember is that not everyone--especially women--is turned on by what they see. I heard once that men have eye-gasms, women have ear-gasms. For the women reading this, that is not necessarily always the case either.

Hate is a product of self-hate. If someone says they don't like another person, what they really mean is they don't like in that other person whatever it is that is symbolic of their own self-hate. This means that if someone does not like you, what they are really showing is that they see something in you that reminds them on an unconcious level about what they don't like about themself. Another thing to realize is that not everyone makes happy, smiling faces--me for one. That does not mean they hate you or even dislike you. You have no idea what people are thinking so don't try to beam those thoughts into their head.

[Sunshine]

I see nothing wrong with feeling vulnerable and insecure when we really like someone. Not that I think it's a walk in the park or anything, but I'm just saying that I think it's normal.

According to Freud, as a newborn baby, we only possess an "Id". The "Id" is base, selfish and narcissistic by necessity to aide in our survival at the time. But the "Id" is the antithesis of love imo (because to love is to give) and if we want to love and be loved in return we must detach from this Id. I think this is a slow and gradual process which takes many years, up to a lifetime, for us to detach and to fully love others. I see the process as a beautiful, complex, and often times frustrating dance that we must perform if we are to be truly evolved and enlightened. Just my opinion.

But, yes, it is disturbing and hard.

<3

[Edahn]

Awesome responses. dissonance, what you said is making me think about some stuff. Thanks.

I figured out that the reason I don't like not feeling good about people is that I think I'm supposed to, and that not feeling good is a sign of anxiety, and that in my mind I force myself to fix that instantaneously.

As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.

[disregard]

Wow, that's interesting, Edahn. Your need to have people like you makes a lot more sense now.

[Jennifer]

Well, I can very much identify with your OP, and I still don't fully understand it. When I'm alone, I seem to accept myself fine; as soon as I get around others, I get neurotic and hate disappointing them. That's why I hate conflict. It's why I hate the fact you and I have had words sometimes. I just hate disappointing others, and I hate the distance it often creates in the relationship.

Because part of it was feeling out of control. If I disappointed someone, they might reject me even though I wanted to maintain things.

Worse, though, they might have thought I was a bad person. Because I did not see myself as legitimate or have faith in who I was, any criticism of me was read as a valid endictment.

Only when I finally started to accept myself and my own humanity (strengths, flaws, frailties, feelings, desires, distastes) and not be ashamed of them, not define myself as an "ugly person," could I stand up in the face of someone else's disappointment.

I'm not over it yet, but I can now survive disappointing others without necessarily lashing out at people who I disappoint. It's a long journey. I just realized I could not control people's responses, and if I tried too much to do that, I dishonored myself as well as them.

I can identify a little with your discomfort for others. For example, I can laugh at shows where tricks are played on people (whether Jackass or Kutchner's show) because I am detached and see the situational humor and enjoy it... but I could never ever do those things myself. Or like watching people stumble through question-answering on TV... even if they really are a little dense.

It makes me really uncomfortable to see someone else get angry because they've been embarrassed in some way. I also project into them and feel their embarrassment and feel bad about it. You have a lot of empathy for others and also a developed "mirroring" skill, and while that is a strength in some ways and a survival mechanism as well, it can also create a lot of anxiety and tension.

[Oberon]

Most of the time I not only want but absolutely require that people like me, and if they do not, I struggle with the urge to do whatever it takes to win them over.

But occasionally there are times... few and far between... when I just don't give a ratzass about whether other people like me.

[INTJMom]

...
As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.
I apologize for the length of this post.

I can very much relate to these feelings.
I have dealt with them for most of my life up to now.
The good news is that I am much better than I used to be,
so I believe there is hope for you.

I actually was unable to watch American Idol for several years because of the way Simon insults people the way he does,
and I really cannot for the life of me understand why they show the awful auditions of people singing bad, just so they can publicly humiliate them.

However, far from being able to please people the way you say you try to do, I was convinced that I would never be able to please people and so went through life self-sabotaging every relationship... doing and saying stupid things that would make people reject me... so that I could be in control of the rejection, presumably. I was frustrated because I couldn't stop myself.

I have found the system or formula that works for me, when I find myself experiencing triggered painful memories. I don't know if it would work for everyone, but it has worked successfully for me every time I have tried it in the last 15 years. This is where my healing and positive progress has come from, I am convinced.

You are correct in stating that it takes courage and a good coping mechanism, for it most certainly does. For me, the my courage comes from knowing that I need and want to be emotionally healthy, and I want and need to stop behaving in unhealthy ways. My coping mechanism is the grieving process.

Once I know what memory is triggered, I have to go back and face the pain of the memory. To some people, it sounds stupid to "grieve" when no one has died, but it makes perfect sense to me. At times in my young life, I was hurt so deeply, that a part of "me" died. I actually write out my thoughts and feelings about the memory that hurt me, and I go through the steps of the grieving process. It can take a few hours, a few days, a few weeks, or longer. I am the type of person who MUST have closure, so I tend to pursue it more intensely than other people might.


********************************************
THE STAGES OF GRIEF
There are several stages of grief.
You may not go through all these stages,
you may not experience them in this order,
and you may experience some stages more than once.

SHOCK OR DENIAL
Shock is a numbness, or feeling of unreality.
This is generally the first stage of grief that a person goes through just after a significant loss or blow.
You may not feel much of anything.
You may find yourself saying something like, "I can't believe this," or "This can't be happening."

DEPRESSION
You may not want to go anywhere, see others, or engage in normal activities.
You may lose your interest in life, or feel that you can't go on living.
You may struggle with difficulty concentrating, eating or sleeping too much, or not enough, and self-pity.

GUILT
You may find yourself feeling guilty for things you did or didn't do or say prior to the loss.
You start saying, "Why didn't I...?" "Why did I...?" or "If only I had..."

ANGER
Anger at God.
Anger at yourself.
Anger at others.
It may take you a while to process all your anger, especially if you were brought up in a family that didn't allow you to express bad feelings.
When you have angry feelings, and think angry thoughts, realize that it's just a natural stage you need to pass through.
You must express your anger in healthy ways.
Writing down your thoughts and feelings in a journal is a great way to express anger without being judged.

ACCEPTANCE
Most of the pain is gone.
You accept the fact that something bad happened.
You forgive those who have hurt or wronged you.
You are ready to invest yourself in life again.
********************************************
Grieving Process Defined (http://grievingprocessdefined.blogspot.com/)


For me, the most important step has been forgiving the people who hurt me.
Once I do that, they no longer have power over me.
And even if I remember what happened,
the memory doesn't hurt anymore.

Afterward, I am just automatically different.
I don't have to work at it, or think about it.
It's like the difference between going through life with a broken arm in a cast,
and having a healed arm with no more cast.
Life is just easier and better.

Did you check out the co-dependency links?

[ZiL]

Your post is something I can HEAVILY relate to, Edahn. And I'm still trying to pinpoint my problems with this as well.

One of the things I've considered is that part of my need to please people and make them like me has stemmed from specific negative childhood situations. I've noticed on looking back into the past that there were various instances where I'd get an unexpected and unintended negative reaction from someone - relatives and friends. For example, I'd be making a harmless joke, or just trying to be friendly when all of the sudden someone would blindside me with an angry reaction that I felt was out of proportion to the situation. Or as many children do when they want to be "cool," a person whom I thought was my friend would turn around and start being a jerk the next day. I never did that to people as a child - I was pretty sensitive and empathetic - but when people did it to me I couldn't make head or tails of it, and it scared me. It scared me that I could just be minding my own business, and someone could suddenly come at me with a negative reaction that I never would have expected. Kind of like when you're driving along at the speed limit and some Jeff Gordon-wannabee comes flying past you flicking you off. It's like - what did I do to provoke that (besides driving the speed limit, which isn't some heinous crime)? The possibilities for interpersonal chaos terrified me from a young age. The fact that I can't predict the behavior of others, and that just because I act one way doesn't mean the other person will follow.

I believe these experiences might have something to do with my seeking approval from others. By being nice to people, I'm trying at all costs to avoid those unexpected negative reactions. I'm charming to disarm. I see negative possibilities in every interpersonal relationship, and I become overly paranoid, seeing negatives where there are none, blaming myself for things that might have more to do with the emotional state of the other person.

I too was a pleaser as a child - I wanted teachers to respect me and not treat me like an idiot. Trying to equalize authority is still something I do now.

I genuinely enjoy being around others when I feel a level of safety has been reached; I love that feeling of togetherness. But till that point, I can be very socially anxious and overly paranoid about the intentions of others. I hope we can all get ourselves on to a path of training to stop this behavior, because it does suck.

[Edahn]

I actually was unable to watch American Idol for several years because of the way Simon insults people the way he does,
and I really cannot for the life of me understand why they show the awful auditions of people singing bad, just so they can publicly humiliate them.

However, far from being able to please people the way you say you try to do, I was convinced that I would never be able to please people and so went through life self-sabotaging every relationship... doing and saying stupid things that would make people reject me... so that I could be in control of the rejection, presumably. I was frustrated because I couldn't stop myself.

...

My coping mechanism is the grieving process.

[/COLOR]

That was a great post. I definitely feel like parts of me have died in relationships. Actually, that's the basic feeling I have when I get anxious or try to get people to like me, because I manufacture a false self and sacrifice my real self.

What situations will make you grieve?

Thank you so much. I can see how part of the forgiveness will have to be forgiving myself for treating me like ass.

it probably has to do with something in your childhood -- for me, i overcompensate for not getting enough positive reinforcement as a child. i learned to navigate my relationships in a strategic way (with the goal of avoiding disappointing others) very early on.

i think it actually boils down to a feeling that everyone is more fragile than you are -- which maybe suggests something about your childhood? you accept the emotional reactions of others but don't accept your own. you think of yourself as separate from everyone -- they're allowed to have feelings and you aren't.

it's at least that way for me, and all i know is that i have to learn to value my own feelings more and stop thinking of myself as such a robot.

Can you elaborate on that? It's very very true. How does it relate to you needing approval from others?

[post and stories from childhood]

I have the same history of unanticipated angry responses and I also do the paranoid thing. Great post.

[nolla]

I just wanted to say I'm starting to love this place. :) This thread is by far the largest concentration of common wisdom I have seen. It's great to see you all draw possible solutions from your own life, which is the "subject" you are most familiar with.

I have experienced this also, but I really have nothing to add. Very thorough of you people.

[arcticangel02]

Awesome responses. dissonance, what you said is making me think about some stuff. Thanks.

I figured out that the reason I don't like not feeling good about people is that I think I'm supposed to, and that not feeling good is a sign of anxiety, and that in my mind I force myself to fix that instantaneously.

As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.

I recognise this feeling - I have a tendancy to skitter away emotionally from anyone I suspect (whether accurately or not) of liking me in a romantic sense: I fear having to let them down because I'm not exactly sure of what I feel. Better to distance myself and not have to deal with it. (And as far as watching stuff on TV? I find it difficult to listen to prank calls or whatever that involve an innocent person... something about it just makes me cringe.) But yeah, disappointing others is worse than being disappointed myself.

My suggestion would be just to watch yourself - pay attention to when your mind suddenly feels the need to overcorrect and overcompensate when dealing with other people. Don't try and resist it, but just pay attention to it and try and understand it. Maybe then you can start to relax the grip. :)

[toonia]

i weigh loyalties/specifics, and then figure out a way to explain myself to both people. i try to reach the best compromise possible, but i end up factoring myself out too much.
I enjoyed reading your entire post. My primary concern for people who focus on pleasing others is the fact that we have such limited control over what happens externally. Placing one's identity in anything that is determined outside of self creates such uncertainty. Whether it is people liking us, winning awards, striking respect or fear in others, etc. we can't determine the outcome, but can only influence it. People find a variety of ways to control the responses of others - to make them more predictable. Some people try to elicit positive responses, some withdraw to ensure no response, while others take an antagonistic approach to ensure a negative response. It can all be based on the same fear of the unpredictability of others. There is some value in letting go of what we cannot control. It is helpful to focus on doing our best to achieve whatever result as opposed to measuring ourselves based on outcomes.

As a side note, your username is interesting in contrast to your natural inclinations to create harmony. It makes you kinda interesting. :party2:

...As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.I found this interesting and something i can relate to to some degree. During my first year at a particular university i became rather depressed on watching negative dynamics amongst other people. The negativity was not directed at me, but i found that irrelevant. If someone is willing to hurt another person in some particular way - backstab, embarrass, ridicule, etc., I know that they would treat me the same way given the right circumstances. In that way, i don't see much difference between rejection of myself or someone else. The aspect of disapproval of others that hurts me the most tends to be this reminder that there are so many overwhelming negative dynamics that exists which i can't conquer, but can only avoid or make feeble attempts to fix. When one person insults me out of the blue it reminds me of how such things exist everywhere. Those moments i find these within myself are particularly demoralizing. That is why I attempt to remain somewhat open to any living thing, even if it is cruel and beyond my ability to embrace. Even if i don't like what they do or how they make me feel, i can at least remain curious about their experience with a desire to understand. I have found that the more I can understand, the less desire there is to hate or punish. It is different from actually embracing, but it does produce peace.

[Victor]

If someone is willing to hurt another person in some particular way - backstab, embarrass, ridicule, etc., I know that they would treat me the same way given the right circumstances.

This is very important because we are all inclined to think it won't happen to me. But if they will do it to someone else, they will do it to you.

So it is worthwhile watching how people behave because that is how they will treat you.

[evan]

I've noticed on looking back into the past that there were various instances where I'd get an unexpected and unintended negative reaction from someone - relatives and friends. For example, I'd be making a harmless joke, or just trying to be friendly when all of the sudden someone would blindside me with an angry reaction that I felt was out of proportion to the situation. Or as many children do when they want to be "cool," a person whom I thought was my friend would turn around and start being a jerk the next day. I never did that to people as a child - I was pretty sensitive and empathetic - but when people did it to me I couldn't make head or tails of it, and it scared me. It scared me that I could just be minding my own business, and someone could suddenly come at me with a negative reaction that I never would have expected.

this was the exact story of my childhood too, except it was my mom who would blow up at me all the time over random nonsense (like seriously everyday).

i learned to think of it in a more strategic way over time -- i'd try to read her moods and analyze everything i wanted to say before actually saying it, holding most things back. and of course, since my parents are my prototypes for thinking about people (as a psychological truism), i applied that mentality across the board.

but the problem with thinking of it that way is this: if it's a game of strategy, there's a right move and a wrong move. and that means i can always figure out the right move given enough time. so instead of being able to live in the moment, i'm always withdrawing and analyzing before participating.

another huge problem is that if something goes wrong, i blame myself -- i immediately see my own "play-mistake" (to use a card game term). it's obvious that if i only did this one thing differently, my "position" in the game would be better.

of course, i don't keep this metaphor in my mind consciously all the time. but i really do think of it as me navigating a somewhat arbitrary game where everyone else defines the rules. and my job is to be the best player possible...


As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.

i definitely get this when watching other people too. for example, i seriously have to leave the room several times an episode while watching the office. i'm the type of person that gets more embarrassed for someone else than they do for themselves.



i think it actually boils down to a feeling that everyone is more fragile than you are -- which maybe suggests something about your childhood? you accept the emotional reactions of others but don't accept your own. you think of yourself as separate from everyone -- they're allowed to have feelings and you aren't.

Can you elaborate on that? It's very very true. How does it relate to you needing approval from others?

well, what I’m trying to say is, you feel like an alien among these random irrational beings. and since you think of yourself as different, you think that you have some obligation to protect them from “harm”. it’s as if you’re an adult in a world of toddlers. they’re all so fragile.

you want their approval like a father wants his children to love him. you want them to be thankful for the role you’re playing.

and if they reject you, given that parent/child metaphor, it means you haven’t taken the right “parenting” approach. so you blame yourself.

I enjoyed reading your entire post. My primary concern for people who focus on pleasing others is the fact that we have such limited control over what happens externally. Placing one's identity in anything that is determined outside of self creates such uncertainty. Whether it is people liking us, winning awards, striking respect or fear in others, etc. we can't determine the outcome, but can only influence it. People find a variety of ways to control the responses of others - to make them more predictable. Some people try to elicit positive responses, some withdraw to ensure no response, while others take an antagonistic approach to ensure a negative response. It can all be based on the same fear of the unpredictability of others. There is some value in letting go of what we cannot control. It is helpful to focus on doing our best to achieve whatever result as opposed to measuring ourselves based on outcomes.

oh, I fully agree. i would love to not care so much. it’s something i’m going to have to work on throughout my life, i’m sure.

As a side note, your username is interesting in contrast to your natural inclinations to create harmony. It makes you kinda interesting. :party2:

:)

[cascademn]

Wow...lots of responses...I don't have the patience to read through them all right now. Maybe another time.

But just regarding the OP - I can relate to much of what you have written, and I think it's something that will always be hovering under the surface for me, as it's something I've always struggled with. There have been times where I have reached a 'place' where it hasn't been an issue, but it pops it's ugly head up at me more often than I like to admit. I recognize when it happens.

I think it's human to want people to like you. I think it is a raw feeling, and I think for anyone it can hurt when you are rejected -- when someone openly rejects you, or takes the more passive approach by simply ignoring you. Yes, rationally, the thing to do is to tell yourself that it's impossible for everyone to like you -- it's just not gonna happen. But rationalizing it doesn't get rid of the hurt, or the feelings themselves.

At one time, I got rid of this feeling by putting up a cynical wall to deflect all of it -- I distanced myself from others so that I 'wouldn't care' if I was rejected (even though it was an illusion that I didn't care - deep down I did, but I rationalized it so much and the cynicism deflected most everything and I could think badly of others instead of facing my own hurt).

I dunno. Personally I feel that I'm authentically me, and that doubles the hurt when I'm rejected - because it's ME that's being rejected. But..I just think it's what it is to be human.

I don't think I helped a bit with this post.

[booyalab]

I hate hate hate disappointing people.

What makes you think people have expectations of you in the first place?
And if they do, why are those expectations as important as your own?

[Edahn]

What makes you think people have expectations of you in the first place?

I guess I imagine them already being there. Kind of like wanting to be the best student. Your teacher is expecting you to do well.

And if they do, why are those expectations as important as your own?

Good Q, but I don't think of it logically. All these things happen subconsciously. My fear of fucking up and being undervalued, I guess, leads me to make decisions that are not in my ultimate best interests, just immediate best interests.

[bluebell]

this was the exact story of my childhood too, except it was my mom who would blow up at me all the time over random nonsense (like seriously everyday).

i learned to think of it in a more strategic way over time -- i'd try to read her moods and analyze everything i wanted to say before actually saying it, holding most things back. and of course, since my parents are my prototypes for thinking about people (as a psychological truism), i applied that mentality across the board.

but the problem with thinking of it that way is this: if it's a game of strategy, there's a right move and a wrong move. and that means i can always figure out the right move given enough time. so instead of being able to live in the moment, i'm always withdrawing and analyzing before participating.

another huge problem is that if something goes wrong, i blame myself -- i immediately see my own "play-mistake" (to use a card game term). it's obvious that if i only did this one thing differently, my "position" in the game would be better.

of course, i don't keep this metaphor in my mind consciously all the time. but i really do think of it as me navigating a somewhat arbitrary game where everyone else defines the rules. and my job is to be the best player possible...


Again, I competely relate to this. And I know this is where my issues with this has come from too. It helps me if I look at it objectively - that I needed to do this growing up (to physically survive - there was violence when I was little, hence the fear of death is wrapped up in this for me as well), but I'm safe now and nothing can happen to me if someone doesn't like me. It is hard to fight the 'it's the end of the world, how can I fix this NOW' feeling because it can be overwhelming, but looking at it objectively, without judging, does gradually take the edge off it.

Edahn - this is the sort of thing my earlier question was trying to get at. What is the underlying cause of this for you? What does it mean if someone doesn't like you?

[Neuro]

I too relate to much of what has been said here. For me a big issue is just speaking. I am obsessed with the power of words and often agonise about what I say and the manner in which I say it. It is totally irrational but I have come to believe that the way I communicate is somehow wrong. This of course leaves very little room for natural sponteneity.
For me it relates to what I think they call ontological insecurity. I sometimes feel completely overwhelmed by other people and doubt my ability to retain a strong sense of identity around others.

[Neuro]

Sorry I accidentally hit enter. A book that I woud recommend if you can get it is Beyond Fear by Dorothy Rowe. She talks alot about intoverts and extroverts and their core needs. I only mention this because a lot of what people have been saying here reflects what she says about introverts. She says what intoverts fear most is chaos and that other people can often be sources of chaos because they are so unpredictable. A reay excellent read if you can find it.

[aguanile]

Awesome responses. dissonance, what you said is making me think about some stuff. Thanks.

I figured out that the reason I don't like not feeling good about people is that I think I'm supposed to, and that not feeling good is a sign of anxiety, and that in my mind I force myself to fix that instantaneously.

As for needing people's approval, I was thinking today about how much I hate watching people get embarrassed. I can't even watch it on TV, like when Leno interviews people and asks them easy stupid questions. I have to change the channel because the feeling I get are overwhelming. It makes me think that I'm just very sensitive to feeling rejection. Even seeing it in another person will trigger certain circuits and memories and feelings that are very intense, for which I still don't have the courage to face or a good coping mechanism to work with.


That hits right home for me. I do the same thing. I cannot stand watching others get embarrassed. I don't even watch the auditions for American Idol. I guess I feel like it is me up there with them.

[Tallulah]

Your post is something I can HEAVILY relate to, Edahn. And I'm still trying to pinpoint my problems with this as well.

One of the things I've considered is that part of my need to please people and make them like me has stemmed from specific negative childhood situations. I've noticed on looking back into the past that there were various instances where I'd get an unexpected and unintended negative reaction from someone - relatives and friends. For example, I'd be making a harmless joke, or just trying to be friendly when all of the sudden someone would blindside me with an angry reaction that I felt was out of proportion to the situation. Or as many children do when they want to be "cool," a person whom I thought was my friend would turn around and start being a jerk the next day. I never did that to people as a child - I was pretty sensitive and empathetic - but when people did it to me I couldn't make head or tails of it, and it scared me. It scared me that I could just be minding my own business, and someone could suddenly come at me with a negative reaction that I never would have expected. Kind of like when you're driving along at the speed limit and some Jeff Gordon-wannabee comes flying past you flicking you off. It's like - what did I do to provoke that (besides driving the speed limit, which isn't some heinous crime)? The possibilities for interpersonal chaos terrified me from a young age. The fact that I can't predict the behavior of others, and that just because I act one way doesn't mean the other person will follow.

I believe these experiences might have something to do with my seeking approval from others. By being nice to people, I'm trying at all costs to avoid those unexpected negative reactions. I'm charming to disarm. I see negative possibilities in every interpersonal relationship, and I become overly paranoid, seeing negatives where there are none, blaming myself for things that might have more to do with the emotional state of the other person.

I too was a pleaser as a child - I wanted teachers to respect me and not treat me like an idiot. Trying to equalize authority is still something I do now.

I genuinely enjoy being around others when I feel a level of safety has been reached; I love that feeling of togetherness. But till that point, I can be very socially anxious and overly paranoid about the intentions of others. I hope we can all get ourselves on to a path of training to stop this behavior, because it does suck.

Oh, wow. This point hit me hard. This is exactly my childhood. I had great parents and a great sister, but there were a few "friends" in my life that would just turn on me out of nowhere, and it made me socially anxious and mistrustful of people I didn't know well. I started becoming more independent, more self-reliant, and started making people have to hang around me for a LONG time before I considered them trustworthy enough to open up to. I was always afraid that the rules would change, or they'd read my shyness as snobbery, or something along those lines. One example, in junior high one day, I was standing around in a group with friends, and just mostly listening. This girl who was sort of aggressive and frankly intimidated me, since I was a shy kid, just out of the blue looked at me and said, "You just think you're so much better than everyone else, don't you?" And this was the first thing this girl had EVER said to me. I mean, where does that come from, and how do you even respond to that? So now I'm HYPER sensitive to acting friendly, so nobody gets their emotional panties in a wad. I had lots of weird things like that happen when I was a kid.

Even knowing the root, I still struggle with trusting people to this day. I fear rejection and want people to like me, whether I objectively like them or not. As someone else in the thread said, it's almost like a game of saying the right thing to avoid negative consequences. I love hanging out with people that I feel comfortable with, but the rest of the social world feels like a minefield sometimes, and I know a lot of that is fearing rejection and feeling like I don't know the rules. Most of the time, I just try to keep things light and use humor to show that I'm not a threat. Frankly, I'm okay with accepting that I don't like certain people and that not everyone has to be best friends. But then people get their feelings hurt and you still have a problem.

[MacGuffin]

Everyone on this thread needs hugs.

For reals.

:hug:

[runvardh]

:hug:

[Edahn]

Edahn - this is the sort of thing my earlier question was trying to get at. What is the underlying cause of this for you? What does it mean if someone doesn't like you?

I can't say. In fact, I'm not even sure there was a single event. Both my parents have issues with pleasing people, but it manifests in different ways. My mother placates, and my dad criticizes others and builds himself into something invisible and invaluable (narcissism). I have a few experiences from when I was young, but nothing close to death. Maybe just intense fear and depression (short).

[INTJMom]

Sorry I accidentally hit enter. A book that I woud recommend if you can get it is Beyond Fear by Dorothy Rowe. She talks alot about intoverts and extroverts and their core needs. I only mention this because a lot of what people have been saying here reflects what she says about introverts. She says what intoverts fear most is chaos and that other people can often be sources of chaos because they are so unpredictable. A reay excellent read if you can find it.Wow. That's VERY true for me! I didn't think it was because I am an introvert, though. I thought it was because I have a one track mind, and too much chaos makes me feel confused and unsettled.

[INTJMom]

Everyone on this thread needs hugs.

For reals.

:hug:
Thanks, Mac. :)

[toonia]

Oh, wow. This point hit me hard. This is exactly my childhood. I had great parents and a great sister, but there were a few "friends" in my life that would just turn on me out of nowhere, and it made me socially anxious and mistrustful of people I didn't know well. I started becoming more independent, more self-reliant, and started making people have to hang around me for a LONG time before I considered them trustworthy enough to open up to. I was always afraid that the rules would change, or they'd read my shyness as snobbery, or something along those lines. One example, in junior high one day, I was standing around in a group with friends, and just mostly listening. This girl who was sort of aggressive and frankly intimidated me, since I was a shy kid, just out of the blue looked at me and said, "You just think you're so much better than everyone else, don't you?" And this was the first thing this girl had EVER said to me. I mean, where does that come from, and how do you even respond to that? So now I'm HYPER sensitive to acting friendly, so nobody gets their emotional panties in a wad. I had lots of weird things like that happen when I was a kid...
That type of thing has happened to me and it is partly why I get tired around people. In my experience I had people assume I was judging them when it never crossed my mind. In high school i was on the outer fringe of the "bookish girl clique". In the locker room they would joke and tease with each other and I would withdraw because of shyness. In my mind i would think "what is wrong with me? I can't ever think of responses on the fly. I suppose i will never be able to interact socially, etc." At one later point one of the girls said they thought I was judging them.

I've spent my introverted time analyzing these types of social interactions and misunderstandings. I have come to realize that when you offer people a blank slate, they paint their fears on it. It was especially interesting to me to learn that was a specific technique used in Freud's psychotherapy. In my limited understanding of it, I read that the therapist was to express no personality or mannerism, so that the patient could project onto them the issue they have with other people. Then the therapist and patient work through the original problem. A strongly introverted person is going to have trouble filling in everyone's blanks during interactions, so I adjust by limiting my interactions. I also make an effort not to do the projecting myself.

On a vaguely related note to the thread: If you want to overcome the need to have other people like you, teach lots of students. It's precious near impossible to please everyone when in authority. No matter what you do someone is going to complain. If you work with enough of them, it naturally becomes depersonalized. No one has the energy to care on an individual basis if 900 people like them.

[Jennifer]

...In the locker room they would joke and tease with each other and I would withdraw because of shyness. In my mind i would think "what is wrong with me? I can't ever think of responses on the fly. I suppose i will never be able to interact socially, etc." At one later point one of the girls said they thought I was judging them.

I've spent my introverted time analyzing these types of social interactions and misunderstandings. I have come to realize that when you offer people a blank slate, they paint their fears on it...

Very insightful. :) Both you and 'lulah, I identify with. I realized at some point that my silence (which was me basically judging myself and being afraid of being judged) sometimes left other people feeling that I was judging THEM and/or was snotty.

I don't know if this had an impact on me starting to extrovert friendly feelings more, just so I could put out discernible signals so others had more trouble "projecting" on me, but it definitely helped with feeling part of the group and being accepted.

But dammit... now I am looking at my relationship with my parents. If I have kept silent so often as to avoid hurting them, maybe they took it differently; lord knows how much they project. *mulls*

[INTJMom]

... I have come to realize that when you offer people a blank slate, they paint their fears on it. ...
Incredibly profound statement!
And so true!

[INTJMom]

... If I have kept silent so often as to avoid hurting them, maybe they took it differently; lord knows how much they project. *mulls*
I started noticing this with my husband.
I began to realize that since he's not a very good mind reader,
I should probably speak up.
It causes more friction,
but it avoids misunderstanding.

[Tallulah]

That type of thing has happened to me and it is partly why I get tired around people. In my experience I had people assume I was judging them when it never crossed my mind. In high school i was on the outer fringe of the "bookish girl clique". In the locker room they would joke and tease with each other and I would withdraw because of shyness. In my mind i would think "what is wrong with me? I can't ever think of responses on the fly. I suppose i will never be able to interact socially, etc." At one later point one of the girls said they thought I was judging them.

I've spent my introverted time analyzing these types of social interactions and misunderstandings. I have come to realize that when you offer people a blank slate, they paint their fears on it. It was especially interesting to me to learn that was a specific technique used in Freud's psychotherapy. In my limited understanding of it, I read that the therapist was to express no personality or mannerism, so that the patient could project onto them the issue they have with other people. Then the therapist and patient work through the original problem. A strongly introverted person is going to have trouble filling in everyone's blanks during interactions, so I adjust by limiting my interactions. I also make an effort not to do the projecting myself.

On a vaguely related note to the thread: If you want to overcome the need to have other people like you, teach lots of students. It's precious near impossible to please everyone when in authority. No matter what you do someone is going to complain. If you work with enough of them, it naturally becomes depersonalized. No one has the energy to care on an individual basis if 900 people like them.

Gosh, yes, I get exhausted around people, because I get tired of having to constantly alter my natural behavior to make them feel better. Meanwhile, I don't necessarily know whether they like ME or not, but they don't have to alter their behavior. They get to be exactly who they are. That's what's hard about being an introvert and/or shy.

I teach college English, and I still have issues with wanting to be liked, but I have learned that you have to set firm boundaries and that you can't please everyone. I imagine the more experience I acquire, the more I'll adjust.

I still have to make SUCH an effort in any remotely social situation. The problem is that I can fake it really well, so when I do go into introvert-hermit mode, people do take it personally. And when they see me interacting so easily with the people whom I do trust, they take it as a personal slight. Aaaargh. I know I'm not perfect, but neither is anyone else, and I'd like to be left alone with my idiosyncrasies, tyvm! :smile:

Very insightful. :) Both you and 'lulah, I identify with. I realized at some point that my silence (which was me basically judging myself and being afraid of being judged) sometimes left other people feeling that I was judging THEM and/or was snotty.

I don't know if this had an impact on me starting to extrovert friendly feelings more, just so I could put out discernible signals so others had more trouble "projecting" on me, but it definitely helped with feeling part of the group and being accepted.

But dammit... now I am looking at my relationship with my parents. If I have kept silent so often as to avoid hurting them, maybe they took it differently; lord knows how much they project. *mulls*

It's interesting how we introverts always default to silence when we aren't sure, or when we don't want to hurt others, and then it all comes back to haunt us. And what do you do when your coping method backfires? I do try to project more friendliness, but it just takes up a lot of my energy.

[aguanile]

Wow. That is my life. People projecting onto me. Wow.

I am introverted and have been called: mean, mysterious, intimidating, cold, uncaring, unkind, etc. This especially is a problem with my mom. SHe is very extroverted and depressed and always interprets my silence as judgment.

People indeed do paint their fears, anxiety, anger, whatever is going on in their heads onto you.

[ZiL]

One example, in junior high one day, I was standing around in a group with friends, and just mostly listening. This girl who was sort of aggressive and frankly intimidated me, since I was a shy kid, just out of the blue looked at me and said, "You just think you're so much better than everyone else, don't you?" And this was the first thing this girl had EVER said to me. I mean, where does that come from, and how do you even respond to that? So now I'm HYPER sensitive to acting friendly, so nobody gets their emotional panties in a wad. I had lots of weird things like that happen when I was a kid.



Yeah, that's the kind of stuff that happened to me. I get so pissed when I think about it, lol. I was very extraverted as a child, very hyper, loved to entertain, very curious, but after a few years of that kind of crap occuring periodically, my outward personality turned dramatically into a pattern of people avoidance and extreme anxiety that I've only recently begun trying to combat.

A few others mentioned feeling that they withhold their "true selves," while the rest of the world freely goes about their business. That they have to keep their own reactions under wraps, but are willing to put up with the reactions of others. I definitely relate to that feeling. It's like, in a strange way I'm covertly patronizing to most people I meet. I may even consciously recognize that others are painting their fears onto me, but even this realization does not stop me from looking at others as "children" in the midst of an overreaction, that I need to be "responsible" for by not showing my own emotions/reactions.

The only thing from my childhood that can relate to the above trait has to do with my parents. My mom was very depressed for a while when I was about 6-8 yrs old. She was in the hospital for knee surgery, her mother died - a bunch of bad events converged upon her within a short time span, and her behavior got sorta volatile from what I remember. She had a panic attack, and would mope around a lot. I couldn't stand it for some reason, and so to try to alleviate things, I'd try to entertain her and make her laugh. I was usually pretty good at it. But in the process, I got used to fearing the chaos of emotions on the run, and I felt responsible for reigning them in. Similar stuff went down when my dad had a bipolar hypomanic breakdown causing him to lose his job. This caused my mom a lot of anxiety, and so I went back into the same old pattern, harnessing my own anxiety to create humor to alleviate stress. I still get really nervous around pain, and I tend to feel a phantom responsibility to help alleviate it (through diversion - once again, usually in the form of humor). I don't know if this could tie back into the whole pleasing others thing - avoiding possible pain altogether by trying to make sure it can't get to me (making others happy and needing positive reactions from others towards me to SHOW me that they're happy and there's ABSOLUTELY nothing to fear).


It's good to recognize within ourselves the irrationality of it all, but to really combat this behavioral pattern, I get the impression that it's going to be necessary to go out there, meet a bunch of different types of personalities, and just deal with possible strife, keeping in mind that we simply can't be responsible for every facet of an outcome. I'm betting it's something that has to be experienced a lot so that we can get accustomed to it. Which is scary - facing those fears - but probably the most necessary step. At least that's the only conclusion I've ever reached. Easier said than done, but must be done.

[INTJMom]

Wow. That is my life. People projecting onto me. Wow.

I am introverted and have been called: mean, mysterious, intimidating, cold, uncaring, unkind, etc. This especially is a problem with my mom. SHe is very extroverted and depressed and always interprets my silence as judgment.

People indeed do paint their fears, anxiety, anger, whatever is going on in their heads onto you.
I also I have learned this is very true, but not always, thankfully.
As a matter of fact, I make a special effort to pay careful attention to someone describing someone else, even if it's complimentary.
Very often that person is describing something about themselves.

[Jennifer]

...It's interesting how we introverts always default to silence when we aren't sure, or when we don't want to hurt others, and then it all comes back to haunt us. And what do you do when your coping method backfires? I do try to project more friendliness, but it just takes up a lot of my energy.

You're right, it does. I usually go in spurts, where I am outwardly friendly... but eventually I crash and have to spend a day alone.

The other solution is to pace yourself... just enough incidents of friendliness to create little anchor points / external references that others can look at and say, "Oh, not sure how to read her now, but she was friendly yesterday, so I can just go with that."

[quietgirl]

I've always wanted people to like me. In my younger and teenage years, I based my self image on what others thought of me. It was terrible. This extended into college, where I joined a sorority mostly due to my need to fit in & for people to like me. I've always placed a lot of value on being popular and liked by others because if I'm not liked, then what's wrong with me? In relationships, I would stick around way longer than necessary just trying to get the guy to like me and approve of me.

I can't say I have completely kicked the habit, as I still seek approval from those closest to me and in romantic relationships, but taking a leadership role in my job definitely helped a lot. I worked as a manager and let's face it - a lot of people hate their boss. Dealing with the fact that people simply did not like me actually forced me to face my fear of, well, people not liking me. I knew I was doing my best and doing everything that I could do in order to run my office diplomatically. At first it really did effect me emotionally, but it also forced me to evaluate what I was doing right and build self confidence. I've been a different (and much better) person ever since.

[wedekit]

It's kind of relieving to read that other people go through the same things I go through. Because of that I feel inspired to write some of my thoughts and experiences related to this, though they are a little personal.

My parents used to verbally fight a lot over the smallest things. They were of course fighting with each other, but sometimes the fights would stem from me. I didn't really realize at the time that they were just wanting to fight with each other, and that I was just the excuse, not the real reason. Sometimes I would just ask for my week's worth of lunch money, and my parents would find some way to fight about that ("I gave him lunch money last week. It's your turn!" etc.). It got to the point where I was afraid to ask for things when they were in the room together. The spontaneity of their fights scared the hell out of me. I think that's one of the reasons I became so sensitive to negative reactions and tension, and now I have learned how to defuse it quickly.

In fifth grade I had a close friend tell all my other close friends lies about things that I supposedly said about them. They all stopped talking to me until High School, and I had no one. I remember 5th grade was probably the most awkward year of my life because I had no friends and I distanced myself from everyone else since I didn't want to go through something like that again. That of course made me the perfect target for bullying, which always caught me off guard and left me not knowing what to do. Once I was sitting on the school bus and a kid spit a mouth full of coke all over the back of my head for no reason at all. I was shocked and honestly scared; I had done nothing to him. I of course turned around and looked at him and noticed that there were two girls across the aisle from him that he was probably trying to "impress". I remember another time a friend I had sat with me on the bus in 7th grade, and another girl that was closer to her told her she couldn't sit with me because "he don't look good". What do you say or do when things like that happen to you? I didn't learn to defend myself until later in life, and I'm sure the severity of these instances are what caused the delay.

I ended up retreating into myself and filling myself with fears and insecurities that have never really gone away. I stopped volunteering to answer questions in class (I started doubting if I knew the right answers), I read books during recess and lunch (even during class!), etc. I basically turned into what psychologists call a "slow-to-warm-up learner" because I became so hesitant stepping into the unfamiliar. My grades dropped severely too.

I'm still quite hesitant to be friends with new people.

I am currently experiencing some anxiety about the school year. I am an RA and I was (unfortunately) assigned to the Freshmen Boys hall. Honestly, I am even more hesitant about being friends with any male because I'm gay. I have also had people I thought were friends act differently around me as soon as they found out I was gay. Being on a hall full of guys really fuels my fear of unexpected negative reactions. However, I am determined to face this challenge as just that... a challenge. A test to see if I am going to really let all of the people who didn't like me in the past hold me back. The more I challenge myself like this, the more esteemed and confident I become. Sometimes I envy people with an inflated ego. It is amazing to me that some people can be so confident in themselves, even though I know it essentially is a negative thing when it comes to their relations to other people.

All of this makes me think of Karen Horney's theory about Neurosis. It comes in three flavors: 1) Moving Toward Others 2) Moving Away From Others 3) Moving Against Others. Moving towards people is normally characterized as "The need for affection and approval; pleasing others and being liked by them.".

I try my best to be less sensitive to these kinds of social fears. I actually force myself to be involved with things that require a lot of social interaction as it makes me more desensitized. Examples of this: joined clubs and ran for officer positions, joined theater, became an RA, only worked jobs that require some form of customer service, volunteer for things in class, and the list goes on. Every one of these situations mark times when I was able to release my grip on my insecurities and fears... even if it was just a little, it was noticeable.

[quietgirl]

My parents used to verbally fight a lot over the smallest things. They were of course fighting with each other, but sometimes the fights would stem from me. I didn't really realize at the time that they were just wanting to fight with each other, and that I was just the excuse, not the real reason. Sometimes I would just ask for my week's worth of lunch money, and my parents would find some way to fight about that ("I gave him lunch money last week. It's your turn!" etc.). It got to the point where I was afraid to ask for things when they were in the room together. The spontaneity of their fights scared the hell out of me. I think that's one of the reasons I became so sensitive to negative reactions and tension, and now I have learned how to defuse it quickly.

.

My parents were the same way when I was growing up. When they got divorced, it only got worse. Every purchase that would require them to work together & both pitch in money ended up with me talking between the two of them and a screaming match between them once they finally talked face to face. I have a deep fear of asking my parents for anything financial and blamed myself a lot for their fights since *I* was the one who needed school clothes...

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I can relate.

[evan]

wow it's amazing to me that so many people navigate life in this way. i can honestly say this is the most relevant thread to my life out of anything i've seen on this site. (i literally dropped my jaw when i read the OP, especially the comment about therapy.)

i've been thinking about this for days now. i think i have a lot more to say, but i have to process a bit more.

thanks edahn.

p.s. a lot of people have brought this up already -- i'd like to agree that being in a job situation where people are guaranteed not to like you is quite helpful. the intensity of this problem in my life has definitely decreased from working in food service :). but i still find myself looking to my coworkers for approval in an angry-customer situation.

notice how everyone with this problem is an Fe user? (sorry edahn, i just couldn't help it. hah)

[nolla]

I've spent my introverted time analyzing these types of social interactions and misunderstandings. I have come to realize that when you offer people a blank slate, they paint their fears on it.

This explains a lot. Never thought of it that way.

It's like, in a strange way I'm covertly patronizing to most people I meet. I may even consciously recognize that others are painting their fears onto me, but even this realization does not stop me from looking at others as "children" in the midst of an overreaction, that I need to be "responsible" for by not showing my own emotions/reactions.

Even if I haven't consciously thought about them projecting on me, I have done this also. For me it feels like, if I don't keep myself in check, no one will and it's going chaotic. Sometimes it might seem like I don't care, but it is just me trying to maintain at least some level of prudence.

The flammable child-parent relationship sound way too familiar to me too...

[bluebell]

wow it's amazing to me that so many people navigate life in this way. i can honestly say this is the most relevant thread to my life out of anything i've seen on this site. (i literally dropped my jaw when i read the OP, especially the comment about therapy.)

i've been thinking about this for days now. i think i have a lot more to say, but i have to process a bit more.

thanks edahn.

Freaky. You keep writing what I'm thinking, but with better words than I can come up with.

Agreed. I'm still processing various insights from this thread. I was somewhat concious of some of this, but I've been able to articulate it more. Named fears/insecurities are easier to deal with than when they're hiding and pulling the strings without you realising.

p.s. a lot of people have brought this up already -- i'd like to agree that being in a job situation where people are guaranteed not to like you is quite helpful. the intensity of this problem in my life has definitely decreased from working in food service :). but i still find myself looking to my coworkers for approval in an angry-customer situation.


I had to go to a meeting last week when I was the focus for most of it, with most of the reactions ranging from lukewarm to outright hostile. I had to keep stopping myself going with the impulse to be liked - that wasn't the purpose of the meeting. So, I was juggling negotiating, defusing, doing conflict resolution and and having to follow complex technical discussions while also having to watch my own emotional reactions objectively and let them wash over me, instead of giving in to them. No wonder I was exhausted by the end of the day...

Anyway, that was my roundabout way of agreeing that desensitising while being concious of reactions and the motivations behind them are the way through it.

(I'm a bit drunk while writing this, hopefully this isn't too garbled)

[Buds of May]

Benevolence? Not that there's anything wrong with analyzing shades of motive, but are you really as hard on yourself about this as you sound? Be realistic. It's not all greed for approval.

Teach her how to laugh at her situation without feeling embarrassed.

:blush:

See yourself doing it and laugh?

[Kleinheiko]

I'm thinking about the five love languages right now. If you feel like nobody likes you, that's a lie. People do like you, it's possible that they're just not speaking your language.

If you speak using acts of service and they are speaking to you using quality time, you probably won't even notice that they are befriending you by sitting and talking to you. You will just notice that they aren't doing anything for you, and your relationship will suffer.

Learn how to make them feel liked, and then bring up how they could make you feel liked. Explain everything to them if need be. If they like you, they will readily try.

[ArchitectofFate]

when someone reject me in an obvious way i would go and sit down and talk to them directly about what's going on.

anything can change, but for worse or for better, its the choices you have to make

[INTJMom]

when someone reject me in an obvious way i would go and sit down and talk to them directly about what's going on.

anything can change, but for worse or for better, its the choices you have to make
I really admire the way ENTP type typically face problems this way. I am the opposite, and it's not a very helpful method!

[locke]

Well, I've posted not much more than fluff on this site, including my severely lacking introduction. So this post will double as a re-introduction. You may want to get a snack, or just ignore this post completely. There's a life story coming up. Apologies in advance.

I could really relate to wedekit's story. My parents would fight all the time over fairly stupid things. Sometimes it would get violent. My father was an alcoholic and was verbally abusive towards me. They separated a few times and got back together. My mother even started divorce proceedings once, but then cancelled them.

I eventually got sick of it all and purposefully picked a fight with my father. I kept him distracted and told my mother to call the police. After this they separated again.

During the separation my mother met a man she loved, then started divorce proceedings again. My father found out about this and went to harass and threaten him. This man's ex-wife also found out about this and began wooing him back. They eventually re-married. My mother was devastated.

The divorce proceedings went through this time. My father argued that my mother was seeing someone during the separation, but before the actual divorce proceedings and that this should be considered an affair. He won the case and got away without having to pay alimony and having to pay little child support.

At this point my mother had a breakdown, lost her job and had trouble holding any subsequent jobs. My brother began acting more and more erratic and eventually got involved with drugs. During this time we all had fairly angry and violent outbursts. The violence wasn't directed at each other, but at dishes and walls. I was the first to overcome this, then my mother. My brother was still punching holes in walls before he was sent to prison about a year ago. I think that's because his drug of choice was methamphetamine.

That was when the verbal abuse from my mother began. She'd often compare me to the men she's hated in her life. She'd sometimes compare me to my father's sister. My aunt had managed to make a pretty decent life for herself. "Perfect" in my mothers eyes, so she blamed all my father's problems on her. My brother, she'd compare to my father.

I think this was because I was the least visibly affected by all this. But my problems were social and mostly manifested at school.

I was teased and bullied early on in school. In second grade a kid would sit behind me on the bus and pull my hair. This is when I began my habit of sitting in the very last seat on the bus. Even so, one time he managed to get my shoe somehow for a game of "keep away." The teasing continued in various forms up until about the middle of 9th grade.

Around that time I discovered how to project what I would call an aura of intimidation. I would say it was the kind of vibe that goth kids were going for, except I didn't need the black nail polish, piercings and mascara. In fact, this actually worked at keeping people from messing with me rather than just provoking more of the laughter and teasing that was usually directed at the goths. Since then I've learned how to get the opposite effect and have gotten comments like, "You're one of the quietest people I've ever met, but I feel strangely comfortable with you," a few times.

Early 10th grade is when my problems at home were beginning to get at their worst and my social anxiety began to become unbearable. I began cutting school and the frequency would increase as the year went on. This would reinforce itself. I would feel embarrassed over the number of days I've missed, and so I wouldn't want to go to school. I dropped out early in 11th grade. I finished school through independent study.

May, 1999. I would be finishing 11th grade if I had went. My mother hasn't held a job in a while. My brother and I are behaving like delinquents, although he hasn't gotten involved with drugs yet. The rent is due. We end up using the last of our money to take a Grayhound bus across country to stay with my grandmother.

From that time until about a year and a half ago, I spent most of my time to myself. I've held jobs, they were in IT except for one brief period in 2003/2004 when I worked at a Subway. I left Subway for another IT job, even though I knew I needed to social experience and wanted to stay (that's another story). I tried college a couple of times, but my anxiety wouldn't allow me to focus. People still tell me I should go to school, but I've already decided that's not my path.

Last year I met a guy who got me involved organizing a Powwow in Northridge (Nov. 29th this year at CSUN by the way) and I've since gotten involved with other activist organizations. I've even started an activism project of my own.

Well, on to the topic! When I'm concerned about people liking me I tend to want to be exciting, witty and spontaneous. I usually end up failing at this, embarassing myself and offending others, or focusing so intently on this that I make myself a nervous wreck and still can't think of anything to say. I guess if I could pinpoint my anxiety it's that I'm afraid I'm boring.

[bluemonday]

I am disappointed by this thread.
Also, I don't like you.
:D

I think it's related to the fear of Death. Most people feel that they will cease to exist if other people don't appreciate/value/care for them. They are wrong.

It might be because, as Jennifer has suggested, they haven't developed their own ego/boundaries appropriately. So, they can't be certain where their needs end and the needs/requirements of others begin. The whole thing gets blurry.

I think people tried to bully me at school, I didn't even notice at the time. It was a frustrating experience for them. People have tried to bully me at work. I usually manage to get them fired or expose them in other ways. Revenge is sweet.

My advice: Stop fearing Death!
(and change your X to an I)